Imagine, really imagine what the world would be

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  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    benjs said:

    Actually Matt, I should backtrack a little bit. I would say I disagree with Lennon's call for the abolishment of those things if it is intended to be taken literally. If he's metaphorically saying that imagine if we took a human-first perspective (as I suspect he is), then I would agree. And, since it's music, we're allowed to all have different interpretations: that's what's great about music - a finite number of words, but an infinite number of meanings.

    But I will definitely say I was too abrupt and not analytical enough in observing the words he was saying, before I unequivocally disagreed, so my apologies!

    That is fair. I think my problem with the lyrics are to many people (in my own circles) have always wanted to take the lyrics literal and preached them. Obviously with music and lyrics, it's always open to interpretation. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the song. Great idea, but scary if implemented. It reminds me of communism. Sounds great on paper, but if ever actually implemented? Train wreck!
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    I'm not sure why you think that taking on a dismissive tone is going to make you right.
    You're couldn't be more wrong on your interpretation of this particular piece of music.
    Your probably wrong about the vinyl count, too.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    edited October 2014
    Communism? A dystopian brave new world? Implementation?
    It's not literal, again, he's asking you to imagine it.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Imagine if this thread didn't exist.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    edited October 2014
    http://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=yCG199s_A3Q

    Sorry I cheated and posted this in the lounge but it sounds like this thread also would be fitting.
    Last night in STL.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited October 2014
    the tiki bomb said:

    Honestly, I've never heard, read, or seen a more skewed interpretation of any song, poem, movie, or piece of artwork. You're completely off the mark. Could it literally be done, nothing to kill or die for, a brotherhood of man? He's asking you to imagine it, not do it.

    Matt, have you ever heard this song before Ed released his version last week?

    I agree
    Seriously, you are making quite a stretch here, and trying to work this song into an agenda within which it just doesn't fit.
    Also, religion isn't the only form of ideology, humanitarianism qualifies as well. You seem desperate to disagree....with everything...
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    badbrains said:

    Imagine if this thread didn't exist.

    It isn't hard to do
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    the tiki bomb said:

    Communism? A dystopian brave new world? Implementation?
    It's not literal, again, he's asking you to imagine it.

    Last time respond to you. But yes imagine. When I imagine, I dont see at his perfect utopian society. I imagine a loss of a utopian idea.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    I don't understand how you make the quantum leap from everyone living in peace to everyone being the same and there being no disagreement at all?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    rgambs said:

    I don't understand how you make the quantum leap from everyone living in peace to everyone being the same and there being no disagreement at all?

    I guess I imagined the world of Imagine?
  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    I love diversity. I love not agreeing with my friends on things and having conversations about them. I'm afraid of a world in which we all just agree. I don't think that's that hard to imagine. Take away the romance of Lennon writing the song, and now Eddie covering it, and seriously think about the lyrics. I know that won't happen, but imagine depicts a world I don't think any of you people woukd like
  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    rgambs said:

    I don't understand how you make the quantum leap from everyone living in peace to everyone being the same and there being no disagreement at all?

    Do you know the song? No leap.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    mattsl1983 said:

    I love diversity. I love not agreeing with my friends on things and having conversations about them. I'm afraid of a world in which we all just agree. I don't think that's that hard to imagine. Take away the romance of Lennon writing the song, and now Eddie covering it, and seriously think about the lyrics. I know that won't happen, but imagine depicts a world I don't think any of you people woukd like

    That's the problem here, it's the lyrics that you are stretching. Your imagination is running wild and leaving the lyrics behind. It's "Nothing to kill or die for", not "Nothing to disagree about"
    "And no religion too" not "and nothing to believe in". You don't think John believed in the power of music and altruism??
    "No need for greed or hunger" not "you have to use the same toothbrush"

    You are stretching like a yoga instructor...please illuminate us as to how the lyrics break down into us all being automatons
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited October 2014

    Do you ever reply with a real answer or just an entrenchment?
    mattsl1983 said:

    rgambs said:

    I don't understand how you make the quantum leap from everyone living in peace to everyone being the same and there being no disagreement at all?

    Do you know the song? No leap.
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    In addition to what rgambs said... If ever there was a song which indicated that it should not be taken as 100% literal, it's probably one called "Imagine".
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    edited October 2014
    If you're getting a 1984, Brave New World-y, The Hunger Games, Obamacare death panel type of dystopia from the lyrics of John Lennon's Imagine, I'm going out on a limb and saying you're in the minority. Good luck with that argument. To me, it doesn't make sense.
    Post edited by ikiT on
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    benjs said:

    In addition to what rgambs said... If ever there was a song which indicated that it should not be taken as 100% literal, it's probably one called "Imagine".

    Yes there is such a thing as art, and it is different from essays which are taken literally...golly geez
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited October 2014
    All songs are open for individual interpretation, of course. But John Lennon did NOT intend it to mean anything that the OP thinks it does.

    Open you mind, man, instead of closing it completely. Which you are doing.
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    rgambs said:


    That's the problem here, it's the lyrics that you are stretching. Your imagination is running wild and leaving the lyrics behind. It's "Nothing to kill or die for", not "Nothing to disagree about"
    "And no religion too" not "and nothing to believe in". You don't think John believed in the power of music and altruism??
    "No need for greed or hunger" not "you have to use the same toothbrush"

    /\/\/\ This /\/\/\

    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • mattsl1983
    mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    What I find humorus is I've listened to the song. Many many times. Great song. Great idea. Great melody. But when I imagine the world that is described, it's a world I don't want to live in. It's my opinion. It's what I take from the song. Imagine someone interpreting a song, a bit different from you? Are you going to argue, or just shake their hand?

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