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Imagine, really imagine what the world would be

mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
in A Moving Train
With Eddie covering the song Imagine, it has really brought up the truths to the song and why I personally don't want to imagine that world. The song Imagine brings up these ideas of the world living in peace. I love the idea of the world living in peace. But to me this song has always missed the point of a world really living in peace. It paints sad world. A world where we have no differences and we are just subjects to an idea of a perfect society. Careful, imagine it enough, but not to much. Cause if you you imagine it to much outside the idea of the original imagine you are wrong and missed the point. It's an oxymoron. I imagine the closest this has with any society is North Korea. Imagine the world I paint for you, but do not imagine outside of my imagine. Imagine what you'd really give up to imagine this world in peace. I am a dreamer, but not I'm not the only one...
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    to that end, john lennon also said "if the people demanded peace instead of another television set, then there would be peace".

    i would never, ever discount the effects that large groups of people can have on a given situation or for a given cause.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    to that end, john lennon also said "if the people demanded peace instead of another television set, then there would be peace".

    i would never, ever discount the effects that large groups of people can have on a given situation or for a given cause.

    I have no idea of what your commenting on this post has to do with the original post aside from tying in Lennon to Lennon. The idea of this post is imagine...
  • ikiTikiT Posts: 11,055
    edited October 2014
    Imagine is about living in an enlightened time, where people turn a corner, and stop acting wrong, nothing more, nothing less.

    You do realize some of us aren't high when we read what you've typed...
    mattsl1983 said:

    With Eddie covering the song Imagine, it has really brought up the truths to the song and why I personally don't want to imagine that world. The song Imagine brings up these ideas of the world living in peace. I love the idea of the world living in peace. But to me this song has always missed the point of a world really living in peace. It paints sad world. A world where we have no differences and we are just subjects to an idea of a perfect society. Careful, imagine it enough, but not to much. Cause if you you imagine it to much outside the idea of the original imagine you are wrong and missed the point. It's an oxymoron. I imagine the closest this has with any society is North Korea. Imagine the world I paint for you, but do not imagine outside of my imagine. Imagine what you'd really give up to imagine this world in peace. I am a dreamer, but not I'm not the only one...

    Post edited by ikiT on
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    the tiki bomb said:

    Imagine is about living in an enlightened time, where people turn a corner, and stop acting wrong, nothing more, nothing less.

    You do realize some of us aren't high when we read what you've typed...

    mattsl1983 said:

    With Eddie covering the song Imagine, it has really brought up the truths to the song and why I personally don't want to imagine that world. The song Imagine brings up these ideas of the world living in peace. I love the idea of the world living in peace. But to me this song has always missed the point of a world really living in peace. It paints sad world. A world where we have no differences and we are just subjects to an idea of a perfect society. Careful, imagine it enough, but not to much. Cause if you you imagine it to much outside the idea of the original imagine you are wrong and missed the point. It's an oxymoron. I imagine the closest this has with any society is North Korea. Imagine the world I paint for you, but do not imagine outside of my imagine. Imagine what you'd really give up to imagine this world in peace. I am a dreamer, but not I'm not the only one...

    So it's all about an enlightened time where we are all enlightened to the same thing? Imagine we all agree on everything right? Because we are all equally enlightened?

    Get as high or as sober as you want, I don't think that comment has anything to do with the idea of the post. But detail it as you seem fit. Imagine a world that thinks as you do.
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    mattsl1983 said:

    the tiki bomb said:

    Imagine is about living in an enlightened time, where people turn a corner, and stop acting wrong, nothing more, nothing less.

    You do realize some of us aren't high when we read what you've typed...

    mattsl1983 said:

    With Eddie covering the song Imagine, it has really brought up the truths to the song and why I personally don't want to imagine that world. The song Imagine brings up these ideas of the world living in peace. I love the idea of the world living in peace. But to me this song has always missed the point of a world really living in peace. It paints sad world. A world where we have no differences and we are just subjects to an idea of a perfect society. Careful, imagine it enough, but not to much. Cause if you you imagine it to much outside the idea of the original imagine you are wrong and missed the point. It's an oxymoron. I imagine the closest this has with any society is North Korea. Imagine the world I paint for you, but do not imagine outside of my imagine. Imagine what you'd really give up to imagine this world in peace. I am a dreamer, but not I'm not the only one...

    So it's all about an enlightened time where we are all enlightened to the same thing? Imagine we all agree on everything right? Because we are all equally enlightened?

    Get as high or as sober as you want, I don't think that comment has anything to do with the idea of the post. But detail it as you seem fit. Imagine a world that thinks as you do.
    With all due respect, if you find the song Imagine to be whatsoever related to thought control, I'd suggest you re-read the lyrics (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnlennon/imagine.html).

    John Lennon, in that song, perfectly exemplifies everything I believe in: the recognition that humanitarianism is really the only 'ism' we ought to consider. When we treat each other as fellow human beings without these BS labels of American or Russian or Muslim or Hindu, I think we'll be closer to peace (if we haven't arrived yet) as ever possible. No more false indoctrinations, no more standing up for the justice that our region or god told us existed, no more societally-induced homogeneity. I think John Lennon was broadcasting his desire for the exact opposite of what you suspect he was pushing for.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • ikiTikiT Posts: 11,055
    edited October 2014
    Actually it's not about "people" turning a corner, it's about humanity turning a corner.

    No disrespect, but Matt, I have no idea what you're talking about, like none.
    Post edited by ikiT on
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • ikiTikiT Posts: 11,055
    edited October 2014
    benjs said:

    ...the recognition that humanitarianism is really the only 'ism' we ought to consider. When we treat each other as fellow human beings without these BS labels of American or Russian or Muslim or Hindu, I think we'll be closer to peace (if we haven't arrived yet) as ever possible. No more false indoctrinations, no more standing up for the justice that our region or god told us existed, no more societally-induced homogeneity.

    well stated, unlike my blunt force trauma...
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    the tiki bomb said:

    Actually it's not about "people" turning a corner, it's about humanity turning a corner.

    No disrespect, but Matt, I have no idea what you're talking about, like none.

    It's not really hard to understand what I'm talking about. All it takes is a similar step away from some idea you've always believed in with the song and look at the flip side of the coin. The song if in practice takes away all individuality. We all become that same. We all agree on everything. There are no boarders, no faith, no ideology. No expressionism. No art. We are all the same. No conflicting ideas. Any idea could be conflicting with another and therefore can not exist. I personally decline the notions and ideals that the song Imagine conjures to me. If you buy into that is a idea brat. If I dont, great. I don't buy it.
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    mattsl1983 said:

    the tiki bomb said:

    Actually it's not about "people" turning a corner, it's about humanity turning a corner.

    No disrespect, but Matt, I have no idea what you're talking about, like none.

    It's not really hard to understand what I'm talking about. All it takes is a similar step away from some idea you've always believed in with the song and look at the flip side of the coin. The song if in practice takes away all individuality. We all become that same. We all agree on everything. There are no boarders, no faith, no ideology. No expressionism. No art. We are all the same. No conflicting ideas. Any idea could be conflicting with another and therefore can not exist. I personally decline the notions and ideals that the song Imagine conjures to me. If you buy into that is a idea great. If I dont, great. I don't buy it.
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    mattsl1983 said:

    the tiki bomb said:

    Actually it's not about "people" turning a corner, it's about humanity turning a corner.

    No disrespect, but Matt, I have no idea what you're talking about, like none.

    It's not really hard to understand what I'm talking about. All it takes is a similar step away from some idea you've always believed in with the song and look at the flip side of the coin. The song if in practice takes away all individuality. We all become that same. We all agree on everything. There are no boarders, no faith, no ideology. No expressionism. No art. We are all the same. No conflicting ideas. Any idea could be conflicting with another and therefore can not exist. I personally decline the notions and ideals that the song Imagine conjures to me. If you buy into that is a idea brat. If I dont, great. I don't buy it.
    Things the song suggests should be taken away:
    -Heaven
    -Hell
    -Countries
    -Religion
    -Possession

    Is your individuality a byproduct of any of these things? Mine isn't. In fact, in my life, the only byproducts of any of these things would have to be indoctrination and greed.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    In the world of Imagine this conversation would never happen or come up. We would all be so enlightened that this wouldn't exist. I like that this idea exists, and that it does exists.
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    mattsl1983 said:

    In the world of Imagine this conversation would never happen or come up. We would all be so enlightened that this wouldn't exist. I like that this idea exists, and that it does exists.

    I disagree entirely. See the post directly above yours.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    So you disagree by taking away any ideology. Religion right? Fuck it, we don't need God or a God. How about possessions? You don't need any possessions? Nothing should belong to you?
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    Well Benjs, I'll send you my address. Feel fr
    benjs said:

    mattsl1983 said:

    the tiki bomb said:

    Actually it's not about "people" turning a corner, it's about humanity turning a corner.

    No disrespect, but Matt, I have no idea what you're talking about, like none.

    It's not really hard to understand what I'm talking about. All it takes is a similar step away from some idea you've always believed in with the song and look at the flip side of the coin. The song if in practice takes away all individuality. We all become that same. We all agree on everything. There are no boarders, no faith, no ideology. No expressionism. No art. We are all the same. No conflicting ideas. Any idea could be conflicting with another and therefore can not exist. I personally decline the notions and ideals that the song Imagine conjures to me. If you buy into that is a idea brat. If I dont, great. I don't buy it.
    Things the song suggests should be taken away:
    -Heaven
    -Hell
    -Countries
    -Religion
    -Possession

    Is your individuality a byproduct of any of these things? Mine isn't. In fact, in my life, the only byproducts of any of these things would have to be indoctrination and greed.
    And I would say not necessarily a by product, but have these things influenced you either good or bad? I'm going to say yes. The deduction of those factors in your past, would you still think the same? I say no. You are influenced either positive or negative now it your view. Imagine a generation that didn't have that and could choose and were stuck with the one positive outlook. Brave New World right? Eliminate choices and ideas.
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    edited October 2014
    mattsl1983 said:

    So you disagree by taking away any ideology. Religion right? Fuck it, we don't need God or a God. How about possessions? You don't need any possessions? Nothing should belong to you?

    I didn't say we should take away any ideology (and I never have): I just disagreed with your interpretation of John Lennon's vision. Religion, a desire to go to Heaven and avoid Hell, nationalist pride, and possession are all great things. But people kill in the name of religion. People justify their own sacrifice because they believe they will go to Heaven. People kill 'zealots' because if they don't, they feel that they will go to Hell. People rape, pillage, and murder for increasing their possession. These are all ideologies which can absolutely be bastardized, but if we started to properly prioritize (I'm sorry for those who know my script - I'm a bit astonished I still feel the need to share it), we would be humans first and FAR before any other label. And it would show in our thought processes, and therefore, our actions. And we wouldn't even need to sacrifice these entities that we have grown accustomed to: all we have to do is stop treating them as though they are where our absolute allegiance resides.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    Actually Matt, I should backtrack a little bit. I would say I disagree with Lennon's call for the abolishment of those things if it is intended to be taken literally. If he's metaphorically saying that imagine if we took a human-first perspective (as I suspect he is), then I would agree. And, since it's music, we're allowed to all have different interpretations: that's what's great about music - a finite number of words, but an infinite number of meanings.

    But I will definitely say I was too abrupt and not analytical enough in observing the words he was saying, before I unequivocally disagreed, so my apologies!
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • ikiTikiT Posts: 11,055
    edited October 2014
    Honestly, I've never heard, read, or seen a more skewed interpretation of any song, poem, movie, or piece of artwork. You're completely off the mark. Could it literally be done, nothing to kill or die for, a brotherhood of man? He's asking you to imagine it, not do it.

    Matt, have you ever heard this song before Ed released his version last week?

    Post edited by ikiT on
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    Regardless of what your interpretation of the song is, it a beautifully written song performed by one of the greatest song writers ever.
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    Actually by saying no religion, you've taken away ideology. I get the impression you are one of those anti religious types that blame everything wrong in the world on religion, and that you are part of the new wave that denies religious motives and how it's all nonsense? Mean while ignoring what's happing in the world?

    Plus give me your possessions. I want them all except your toothbrush. You can keep that possession (:
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    the tiki bomb said:

    Honestly, I've never heard, read, or seen a more skewed interpretation of any song, poem, movie, or piece of artwork. You're completely off the mark. Could it literally be done, nothing to kill or die for, a brotherhood of man? He's asking you to imagine it, not do it.

    Matt, have you ever heard this song before Ed released his version last week?

    No. No I havent.... Such a clever response on your part. But sadly had you read the post and the thread you would have gotten your answer. I'm willing to bet I've got more more original Lennon, McCartney, Beatles vinyl than you could dream of. Don't try and play the "ohhh wellll ummmm I've got nothing to say soooo ahhhhh I'll just question why he's asking this. Surrrrlly I'll sound clevvvvvvver with thisssss one a blah blah ballllllhhhh."
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    benjs said:

    Actually Matt, I should backtrack a little bit. I would say I disagree with Lennon's call for the abolishment of those things if it is intended to be taken literally. If he's metaphorically saying that imagine if we took a human-first perspective (as I suspect he is), then I would agree. And, since it's music, we're allowed to all have different interpretations: that's what's great about music - a finite number of words, but an infinite number of meanings.

    But I will definitely say I was too abrupt and not analytical enough in observing the words he was saying, before I unequivocally disagreed, so my apologies!

    That is fair. I think my problem with the lyrics are to many people (in my own circles) have always wanted to take the lyrics literal and preached them. Obviously with music and lyrics, it's always open to interpretation. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the song. Great idea, but scary if implemented. It reminds me of communism. Sounds great on paper, but if ever actually implemented? Train wreck!
  • ikiTikiT Posts: 11,055
    I'm not sure why you think that taking on a dismissive tone is going to make you right.
    You're couldn't be more wrong on your interpretation of this particular piece of music.
    Your probably wrong about the vinyl count, too.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • ikiTikiT Posts: 11,055
    edited October 2014
    Communism? A dystopian brave new world? Implementation?
    It's not literal, again, he's asking you to imagine it.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Imagine if this thread didn't exist.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    edited October 2014
    http://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=yCG199s_A3Q

    Sorry I cheated and posted this in the lounge but it sounds like this thread also would be fitting.
    Last night in STL.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited October 2014
    the tiki bomb said:

    Honestly, I've never heard, read, or seen a more skewed interpretation of any song, poem, movie, or piece of artwork. You're completely off the mark. Could it literally be done, nothing to kill or die for, a brotherhood of man? He's asking you to imagine it, not do it.

    Matt, have you ever heard this song before Ed released his version last week?

    I agree
    Seriously, you are making quite a stretch here, and trying to work this song into an agenda within which it just doesn't fit.
    Also, religion isn't the only form of ideology, humanitarianism qualifies as well. You seem desperate to disagree....with everything...
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ikiTikiT Posts: 11,055
    badbrains said:

    Imagine if this thread didn't exist.

    It isn't hard to do
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    the tiki bomb said:

    Communism? A dystopian brave new world? Implementation?
    It's not literal, again, he's asking you to imagine it.

    Last time respond to you. But yes imagine. When I imagine, I dont see at his perfect utopian society. I imagine a loss of a utopian idea.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I don't understand how you make the quantum leap from everyone living in peace to everyone being the same and there being no disagreement at all?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    rgambs said:

    I don't understand how you make the quantum leap from everyone living in peace to everyone being the same and there being no disagreement at all?

    I guess I imagined the world of Imagine?
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