Imagine, really imagine what the world would be
Comments
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I've seen enough.Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 061320180
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In response to this, I quoted an earlier post. You are not the bashee.mattsl1983 said:
I would say I'm more open minded to the song and lyrics than most. Im getting bashed for actually having a different interpretation than others. Yes, I am closed minded...backseatLover12 said:All songs are open for individual interpretation, of course. But John Lennon did NOT intend it to mean anything that the OP thinks it does.
Open you mind, man, instead of closing it completely. Which you are doing.
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Obviously I'm not the bashee. I'm the bashed here. I'm finding it hard to follow the trail you are making. Very random, and not clearly defined.hedonist said:
In response to this, I quoted an earlier post. You are not the bashee.mattsl1983 said:
I would say I'm more open minded to the song and lyrics than most. Im getting bashed for actually having a different interpretation than others. Yes, I am closed minded...backseatLover12 said:All songs are open for individual interpretation, of course. But John Lennon did NOT intend it to mean anything that the OP thinks it does.
Open you mind, man, instead of closing it completely. Which you are doing.0 -
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I got about a third of the way through reading this thread this morning and the bolded words sum up perfectly my thoughts. Imagine that.mattsl1983 said:
Obviously I'm not the bashee. I'm the bashed here. I'm finding it hard to follow the trail you are making. Very random, and not clearly defined.hedonist said:
In response to this, I quoted an earlier post. You are not the bashee.mattsl1983 said:
I would say I'm more open minded to the song and lyrics than most. Im getting bashed for actually having a different interpretation than others. Yes, I am closed minded...backseatLover12 said:All songs are open for individual interpretation, of course. But John Lennon did NOT intend it to mean anything that the OP thinks it does.
Open you mind, man, instead of closing it completely. Which you are doing.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
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Sorry I couldn't be clearer for you.mattsl1983 said:
Obviously I'm not the bashee. I'm the bashed here. I'm finding it hard to follow the trail you are making. Very random, and not clearly defined.hedonist said:
In response to this, I quoted an earlier post. You are not the bashee.mattsl1983 said:
I would say I'm more open minded to the song and lyrics than most. Im getting bashed for actually having a different interpretation than others. Yes, I am closed minded...backseatLover12 said:All songs are open for individual interpretation, of course. But John Lennon did NOT intend it to mean anything that the OP thinks it does.
Open you mind, man, instead of closing it completely. Which you are doing.
Anyway, A Perfect Circle covered it awhile back; apt illustrations of the many realms of gluttony mentioned in the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dunKAwRN3P8 0 -
To clarify things, this is my opinion of the song and why I feel the way I do about (thanks brianlux)
The world and ideas of the song Imagine when I really think about it, is a scary world. It's a world where we all agree on everything. I know people will say that's a rather large generalization. But imagining no religion, no boarders, no possessions are very large generalizations in themselves. Expecially if you you actually think of what each of those really are. Religion = personal choice to believe in anything they choose. Boarders = security. Your home, what makes you feel secure. Possessions = your things. The things that you work hard for to acquire. Goes beyond consumables, to things you want and you save for. The world of imagine being absent of these just three things, leaves us with what? It strikes me as a scary state to live in. I feel much more is lost in that society than is achieved.0 -
I think what mattsl is saying is that there are certain conditions with Lennon's song that he would be very uncomfortable living within. It occurred to me that couldn't honestly say I agree or dissagree with the entire song so I looked at it and concluded this:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Not hard at all to imagine this.
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Good thought but I also think it's useful to plan ahead and think about tomorrow. I'm not very good at Buddhist thinking, but I respect the idea.
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Countries are arbitrary political borders. Bio-regional borders are real and make more sense. Native American spirituality is the closest to a religion that I can go with- but even that to me is spiritual, not religion.
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
A great and wonderful goal.
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will be as one
I've never fully understood this idea in a cultural or sociological sense but in terms of Gaia, we're already there, we just don't know it.
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
No possessions- sorry to say, very hard to imagine.
No greed or hunger- easy to imagine.
Brotherhood of man- maybe within one's community and definitely with women too.
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
Possible if the world's population were much smaller.
You, you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one
Hope is always good.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
But how does not having a religion, or borders, or being able to share your possessions translate to "us all agreeing on everything"? It sounds more like us all getting along, which IS the point0
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As mentioned earlier, the lyrics could be taken literally or with a few grains of symbolism.
As I mentioned earlier, most wouldn't want some homogenized world.
It's more about the values we place on some of these things, senses of entitlement, senses of being better than another whether due to religion or what someone owns, and on.
It's not about those THINGS, it's about us and what we do with what we have - and what we don't have.0 -
That makes sense. It would make sense to me to say, "Imagine everybody accepting that other people have their own religious or non-religious beliefs and that they do not infringe on your well being or your own beliefs./ Imagine having your own stuff but only such that others have what they need as well and being willing to share what you have." But that would make a really shitty lyric. :-Drollings said:But how does not having a religion, or borders, or being able to share your possessions translate to "us all agreeing on everything"? It sounds more like us all getting along, which IS the point
Getting along. I can definitely imagine that.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I like apc version best. Gloomy and dark. Just like the world really is.hedonist said:
Sorry I couldn't be clearer for you.mattsl1983 said:
Obviously I'm not the bashee. I'm the bashed here. I'm finding it hard to follow the trail you are making. Very random, and not clearly defined.hedonist said:
In response to this, I quoted an earlier post. You are not the bashee.mattsl1983 said:
I would say I'm more open minded to the song and lyrics than most. Im getting bashed for actually having a different interpretation than others. Yes, I am closed minded...backseatLover12 said:All songs are open for individual interpretation, of course. But John Lennon did NOT intend it to mean anything that the OP thinks it does.
Open you mind, man, instead of closing it completely. Which you are doing.
Anyway, A Perfect Circle covered it awhile back; apt illustrations of the many realms of gluttony mentioned in the song.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dunKAwRN3P80 -
You know, this kind of ties into your other thread, matt. The one about changing the world.
The vastness of all that needs changing and fixing, it's overwhelming. Goes beyond the simple premises of the song.
Animal abuse, female circumcision, wastefulness, domestic violence, rape, people like the two fuckwad teenagers who beat 900 chickens with golf clubs, pedophilia, dude who fucked a horse, the Bundys and Gacys and Dahmers of the world. I could go on.
It goes way beyond just getting along. Some cycles need to be examined, dealt with, stopped.
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*parts of the worldbadbrains said:
I like apc version best. Gloomy and dark. Just like the world really is.hedonist said:
Sorry I couldn't be clearer for you.mattsl1983 said:
Obviously I'm not the bashee. I'm the bashed here. I'm finding it hard to follow the trail you are making. Very random, and not clearly defined.hedonist said:
In response to this, I quoted an earlier post. You are not the bashee.mattsl1983 said:
I would say I'm more open minded to the song and lyrics than most. Im getting bashed for actually having a different interpretation than others. Yes, I am closed minded...backseatLover12 said:All songs are open for individual interpretation, of course. But John Lennon did NOT intend it to mean anything that the OP thinks it does.
Open you mind, man, instead of closing it completely. Which you are doing.
Anyway, A Perfect Circle covered it awhile back; apt illustrations of the many realms of gluttony mentioned in the song.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dunKAwRN3P8
But yes, BB. Me as well. Its somberness hits home.
(love the dolphins too)
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John Lennon 'walked the walk' as much as any big time performer... but it was a hell of a lot easier for him to lie around in bed all day with his wife and talk about how life should be than it is for me.brianlux said:I think what mattsl is saying is that there are certain conditions with Lennon's song that he would be very uncomfortable living within. It occurred to me that couldn't honestly say I agree or dissagree with the entire song so I looked at it and concluded this:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Not hard at all to imagine this.
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Good thought but I also think it's useful to plan ahead and think about tomorrow. I'm not very good at Buddhist thinking, but I respect the idea.
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Countries are arbitrary political borders. Bio-regional borders are real and make more sense. Native American spirituality is the closest to a religion that I can go with- but even that to me is spiritual, not religion.
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
A great and wonderful goal.
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will be as one
I've never fully understood this idea in a cultural or sociological sense but in terms of Gaia, we're already there, we just don't know it.
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
No possessions- sorry to say, very hard to imagine.
No greed or hunger- easy to imagine.
Brotherhood of man- maybe within one's community and definitely with women too.
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
Possible if the world's population were much smaller.
You, you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one
Hope is always good.
As you have said here, Brian... short of cutting out and going Chris McCandless... most of us are pressed into answering the bell each day.
I always got the idea of 'acceptance' and 'tolerance' vs. uniformity from this song.
"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Yeah, that and what rollings said about getting along. That's the heart of the matter. When broken down to it's parts like I did, I think the song itself is a bit naive and unrealistic but I also think breaking it down is not very useful nor is saying it is unrealistic. The general themes of the song- getting along, making the world better- are what make it a kind of anthem and it works well that way. The specifics can only be dealt with more concretely but the overall hope of the song is what makes it work.hedonist said:You know, this kind of ties into your other thread, matt. The one about changing the world.
The vastness of all that needs changing and fixing, it's overwhelming. Goes beyond the simple premises of the song.
Animal abuse, female circumcision, wastefulness, domestic violence, rape, people like the two fuckwad teenagers who beat 900 chickens with golf clubs, pedophilia, dude who fucked a horse, the Bundys and Gacys and Dahmers of the world. I could go on.
It goes way beyond just getting along. Some cycles need to be examined, dealt with, stopped.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I'm cool with hope. When I've turned to it in times of emotional need, it helped. I may have reached out to something beyond myself, but I think myself, in that mindset, is what got me through.brianlux said:
Yeah, that and what rollings said about getting along. That's the heart of the matter. When broken down to it's parts like I did, I think the song itself is a bit naive and unrealistic but I also think breaking it down is not very useful nor is saying it is unrealistic. The general themes of the song- getting along, making the world better- are what make it a kind of anthem and it works well that way. The specifics can only be dealt with more concretely but the overall hope of the song is what makes it work.hedonist said:You know, this kind of ties into your other thread, matt. The one about changing the world.
The vastness of all that needs changing and fixing, it's overwhelming. Goes beyond the simple premises of the song.
Animal abuse, female circumcision, wastefulness, domestic violence, rape, people like the two fuckwad teenagers who beat 900 chickens with golf clubs, pedophilia, dude who fucked a horse, the Bundys and Gacys and Dahmers of the world. I could go on.
It goes way beyond just getting along. Some cycles need to be examined, dealt with, stopped.
(I know that may make no sense to anyone else but me
)
Maybe we're a melange of hope (faith? searching for strength?) and realism. Somewhere in between.
As complex as we can be...we're also some simple motherfuckers.
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Imagining anything isn't generalizing, it's just that: imagining. The song comes with the implication that it's a hypothetical construct with a set of rules or traits (as provided when Lennon tells you just what to imagine, similar to when in the Beatles days he suggested that you "picture yourself in a boat on a river, with tangerine trees, and marmalade skies).mattsl1983 said:To clarify things, this is my opinion of the song and why I feel the way I do about (thanks brianlux)
The world and ideas of the song Imagine when I really think about it, is a scary world. It's a world where we all agree on everything. I know people will say that's a rather large generalization. But imagining no religion, no boarders, no possessions are very large generalizations in themselves. Expecially if you you actually think of what each of those really are. Religion = personal choice to believe in anything they choose. Boarders = security. Your home, what makes you feel secure. Possessions = your things. The things that you work hard for to acquire. Goes beyond consumables, to things you want and you save for. The world of imagine being absent of these just three things, leaves us with what? It strikes me as a scary state to live in. I feel much more is lost in that society than is achieved.
I suspect we have different opinions on religion's primary objective. I don't know about your religion, but the religion I was born into has ten famous commandments, but a total of 613 "do"s and "don't"s for life. That doesn't seem to promote freedom of belief or thought - especially when "Thou shalt have no other gods" is one of the major ten (which, like George Carlin, I believe should be significantly fewer than ten -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE8ooMBIyC8).
Your next issue is borders, but Lennon's song doesn't refer to borders at all - it refers to countries. If you have no countries, you have no nationalist pride. If you have no nationalist pride, people protect people, instead of Americans protecting Americans. If you have people protecting people without divisiveness, you have no need for the security that borders bring which would only serve to isolate and create segregation.
The next point is interesting: possessions. We use materialism to express individuality (i.e. the phone I choose, the clothes I wear, the car I drive, etc.). That being said, materialism and possession are two different entities, and Lennon calls for sharing. If he was anti-materialism, we would have nothing to share. So, to me, it reads as his attempt to preach in favour of a generous new world where we're less concerned with ownership, and actually as a byproduct, probably even more about self-expression than the current state of affairs ("you like this ____? It cost me $25,000", or "you like this _____? Borrow it for a few days, it looks great on you!")
Maybe it's just me, but I don't find any of these notions to be remotely scary, or oppressive. What I will say is that I find them to be highly naive and idealistic, and I suspect they're probably infeasible in a world where religion, nationalism, and ego have such traction.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
What's a guy gonna think about when he's waxing his carrot?
Fucking classic.0
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