Beheaded by ISIS

unsung said:

ISIS is bringing in $2M/day through control of and through black market oil sales.

mickeyrat said:

Beheaded by extremists trying to hijack religion in response to shortsighted US foreign policy.

Theres your title.

Annafalk said:

Idris said:

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

badbrains said:

No surprise here that you're the first to come and post this. 1.6 billion Muslims with 99.999999999999% who are PEACEFUL, but let's forget that and talk about a group that our military can wipe out in 3 mins. So what's the issue? Why not take them out? Why keep them around? Oh ya, we need a bad guy to keep the war machine going. Where's your crying GF on gaza? Why aren't you up and arms, screaming about all the dead INNOCENT children on the streets of Gaza. Shit, 3 were murdered just last night. Why no rage from you? Oh, that's right, cuz they're Muslim so it's OK to kill them. Pages and pages of slaughters happening against innocent civilians in gaza and GF posts something about Muslims beheading a journalist. Did you hear his voice,
Sounds British to me. Mite want to attack England next for sending these guys over there.

The Muslim world should be doing a LOT more to quell radicalism. As it is, they do almost nothing. I don't understand why they don't. These radical Muslims hurt them all, yet there is close to no action against it within their own communities.

I do agree with you and I've talked about it in other threads here that I was concerned that there wasn't enough outrage(at least visible and public) by the moderate Muslim populations and governments.

In numbers the Muslim world could move mountains if they all were on the same page.

That last sentence, very interesting,

It's true, all the 'Moderate Muslims' united, indeed could move mountains...Just like many other large (in number) groups could do...A United Africa, that would be something. Imagine all the 'African Nations' united, It would surely yield great results for the people of 'Africa'.

Sounds good right? Sure...But these things would be devastating to the established Power Structure, and this Power Structure is largely responsible for keeping other nations and people down, separate and 'fighting'.

Any powerful group is a potential threat to us (the USA), and a group is even more of a threat when that group does not fully adhere to the way things are, or our interpretation or feelings towards the way things 'should' be.

We want 'peace' in Iraq, but what kind of 'peace' is that? A peace that continues to uphold our predominant influence, no doubt.

Protecting our interests...And as it's been said many times before, what about our silence? and our lack of Outrage at the systems in place causing so much death and violence, strife. 'we' support these things, The people 'we' vote for, upholding this, no wonder is it said that 'history is cyclical', it's because we don't seem to learn from our mistakes and we continue to let greed influence us, greed deludes us, makes us want more and more power, power is had by gaining control, Control by whatever means, regardless of the consequences. (and the consequences? The results?...The breeding of more of the same, hate, violence, death, bloodshed)

Every 'thinking' person should be Outraged at the State of Affairs, at what's going on, it's all connected,

After ISIS, then what? What really has changed? They will be replaced, and that next group we'll also have to destroy, cause, you know, they will be even more 'evil' than ISIS. It goes on and on.

We paved the path for ISIS, then are sickened and shocked when our chickens come home to roost - , when we see the consequences of our actions play out in such horrific fashion, sure then we wake up a little, only to go back to sleep and continue building the same path that led/leads to the same old place, more bloodshed.

What do you think we should do? We can't give up fighting against terrorists, they will not stop and they are a threat to the whole world.

fuck said:

Regarding the "moderate Muslims need to do more to combat extremism" line:

I think it's very condescending for someone in a position of privilege to talk to Muslims living in the Middle East this way. Tell me, what are YOU doing to combat Western imperial policies that allow for extremism to grow? As Drowned Out accurately mentioned, there is a long history of imperial and colonial practices by Western powers in the Middle East/South Asia/North Africa that allowed extremism to grow. And I often find on this board that many of you end up supporting some of these policies because there is a clear refusal to actually engage with history. How did the Middle East become the way it did? What are these extremists a product of? What are they actually rebelling against? If we continue to just ignore legitimate grievances of Muslims living in the Middle East and confront our policies that continue to contribute to the disenfranchisement of these people, that continue to support dictators and settler-colonies that occupy and ethnically cleanse other people, then there will naturally be movements that grow to counter this. And so long as the US and its allies continue to fight this (or pretend to) with the same policies that created them in the first place, then where do you think the "moderate" Muslims are left? In between armed thugs and the world's biggest military, without the ability to even live normal lives.

Meanwhile, here you all are saying why aren't they doing enough. How about you do something? It's ironic to me that some of you even openly acknowledge that our policies created ISIS, but then support US military involvement in northern Iraq because "we created the mess [by intervening militarily] so now we have to fix it [by intervening militarily]." It's just interesting that there does not appear to be any critical thinking here. Any serious questioning of past policies specifically with regards to how they reflect our future engagement with this part of the world, is just nonexistent. And then we just blame the victims for not "doing enough" without actually being aware of the various debates going on in the Middle East, the trends and movements that exist there, how deep our own involvement is, etc etc. Nope, it's just "them" that aren't doing enough.

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

fuck said:

Regarding the "moderate Muslims need to do more to combat extremism" line:

I think it's very condescending for someone in a position of privilege to talk to Muslims living in the Middle East this way. Tell me, what are YOU doing to combat Western imperial policies that allow for extremism to grow? As Drowned Out accurately mentioned, there is a long history of imperial and colonial practices by Western powers in the Middle East/South Asia/North Africa that allowed extremism to grow. And I often find on this board that many of you end up supporting some of these policies because there is a clear refusal to actually engage with history. How did the Middle East become the way it did? What are these extremists a product of? What are they actually rebelling against? If we continue to just ignore legitimate grievances of Muslims living in the Middle East and confront our policies that continue to contribute to the disenfranchisement of these people, that continue to support dictators and settler-colonies that occupy and ethnically cleanse other people, then there will naturally be movements that grow to counter this. And so long as the US and its allies continue to fight this (or pretend to) with the same policies that created them in the first place, then where do you think the "moderate" Muslims are left? In between armed thugs and the world's biggest military, without the ability to even live normal lives.

Meanwhile, here you all are saying why aren't they doing enough. How about you do something? It's ironic to me that some of you even openly acknowledge that our policies created ISIS, but then support US military involvement in northern Iraq because "we created the mess [by intervening militarily] so now we have to fix it [by intervening militarily]." It's just interesting that there does not appear to be any critical thinking here. Any serious questioning of past policies specifically with regards to how they reflect our future engagement with this part of the world, is just nonexistent. And then we just blame the victims for not "doing enough" without actually being aware of the various debates going on in the Middle East, the trends and movements that exist there, how deep our own involvement is, etc etc. Nope, it's just "them" that aren't doing enough.

I wasn't talking about Muslims in the Middle East only. I was talking about Muslims all over the world.
I can't remember fuck. Are you Muslim? If you are, then you have a different perspective on this thinking than the Muslims I've spoken to about it. I have seen only complete agreement from Muslims about how the Muslim world needs to do way, way more to combat Islamic extremism all over the world. The Muslims I've personally spoken to about it were: 1) 2nd generation Canadian, 2) Muslim of Indian decent raised and living in Thailand after being educated in Canada, 3) Iraqi refugee in Canada (his father was a member of the Iraqi communist party and escaped persecution with his family in the 1990s), 4) a Muslim born and raised in the UK, 5) a particularly devout Muslim from Bangladesh, 6) a Nigerian Muslim in Canada as a mature international student. Every one of these 6 people said that they completely agreed that the Muslim world has to do more to counter extremism, and 2 of them told me that they thought the reason more isn't done is because they believe Muslims tend to side with Muslims first no matter what - they said it was a sense of obligation to other Muslims that kept a lot of people from standing stronger against extremists. These people are not, of course, experts on the subject. They are just random Muslims (all men, btw... not sure if women might have a different perspective). So take it for what it's worth. Just thought their opinions were interesting and the seemed to support my supposition that the Muslim world needs to do more to stop and prevent Islamic extremism.

Can you post a link to an article to support your claims of Muslim friends? And if you do post one, I will say it is full of lies and then post a link to "antiwar.com" and claim it is unbiased.

I just thought I would predict the future and get the next argument over with.

Idris said:

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

fuck said:

Regarding the "moderate Muslims need to do more to combat extremism" line:

I think it's very condescending for someone in a position of privilege to talk to Muslims living in the Middle East this way. Tell me, what are YOU doing to combat Western imperial policies that allow for extremism to grow? As Drowned Out accurately mentioned, there is a long history of imperial and colonial practices by Western powers in the Middle East/South Asia/North Africa that allowed extremism to grow. And I often find on this board that many of you end up supporting some of these policies because there is a clear refusal to actually engage with history. How did the Middle East become the way it did? What are these extremists a product of? What are they actually rebelling against? If we continue to just ignore legitimate grievances of Muslims living in the Middle East and confront our policies that continue to contribute to the disenfranchisement of these people, that continue to support dictators and settler-colonies that occupy and ethnically cleanse other people, then there will naturally be movements that grow to counter this. And so long as the US and its allies continue to fight this (or pretend to) with the same policies that created them in the first place, then where do you think the "moderate" Muslims are left? In between armed thugs and the world's biggest military, without the ability to even live normal lives.

Meanwhile, here you all are saying why aren't they doing enough. How about you do something? It's ironic to me that some of you even openly acknowledge that our policies created ISIS, but then support US military involvement in northern Iraq because "we created the mess [by intervening militarily] so now we have to fix it [by intervening militarily]." It's just interesting that there does not appear to be any critical thinking here. Any serious questioning of past policies specifically with regards to how they reflect our future engagement with this part of the world, is just nonexistent. And then we just blame the victims for not "doing enough" without actually being aware of the various debates going on in the Middle East, the trends and movements that exist there, how deep our own involvement is, etc etc. Nope, it's just "them" that aren't doing enough.

I wasn't talking about Muslims in the Middle East only. I was talking about Muslims all over the world.
I can't remember fuck. Are you Muslim? If you are, then you have a different perspective on this thinking than the Muslims I've spoken to about it. I have seen only complete agreement from Muslims about how the Muslim world needs to do way, way more to combat Islamic extremism all over the world. The Muslims I've personally spoken to about it were: 1) 2nd generation Canadian, 2) Muslim of Indian decent raised and living in Thailand after being educated in Canada, 3) Iraqi refugee in Canada (his father was a member of the Iraqi communist party and escaped persecution with his family in the 1990s), 4) a Muslim born and raised in the UK, 5) a particularly devout Muslim from Bangladesh, 6) a Nigerian Muslim in Canada as a mature international student. Every one of these 6 people said that they completely agreed that the Muslim world has to do more to counter extremism, and 2 of them told me that they thought the reason more isn't done is because they believe Muslims tend to side with Muslims first no matter what - they said it was a sense of obligation to other Muslims that kept a lot of people from standing stronger against extremists. These people are not, of course, experts on the subject. They are just random Muslims (all men, btw... not sure if women might have a different perspective). So take it for what it's worth. Just thought their opinions were interesting and the seemed to support my supposition that the Muslim world needs to do more to stop and prevent Islamic extremism.

Can you post a link to an article to support your claims of Muslim friends? And if you do post one, I will say it is full of lies and then post a link to "antiwar.com" and claim it is unbiased.

I just thought I would predict the future and get the next argument over with.

bootlegger, do you support action against ISIS because they are 'evil' or because they are a direct threat to our interest(s) in the region?

bootlegger10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

There have been an awful lot of beheadings and mutilations in Mexico the past decade.

Are people similarly outraged over these given the motivation is ultimately currency versus religious differences? Is one beheading more justified than another?

Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about the beheadings in Mexico, but I assume that those being killed are involved in the drug cartels, while the folks being beheaded in the Middle East may be viewed at as innocents (reporters...). People killing innocents is more scary than people who kill for money. For example, I don't expect to get killed in gang violence since I'm not in a gang. Now, if go to some countries in the Middle East, I'll die or get kidnapped for being an American even though I mean no harm.