Michael Brown Shooting
Comments
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I didn't quote you or anyone else for that matter. It was a personal opinion on some racist crap spewing from a couple of posts.Indifference71 said:
Are you fucking serious? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these boards. Because some people feel differently than you about an issue, now they don't understand PJ's music???? Wow. This has nothing to do with PJ.myoung321 said:
Exactly.... kinda shocks me that someone could even be a Pearl Jam fan and say some of the things I've read in here... Apparently they listen to PJ music, but don't actually hear it....norm said:i really can't believe some of the things i'm reading here
and some of you wonder why african americans distrust cops so much?
And hell yes I meant it.. If you don't understand the difference between expressing an opinion and out right racial stereotype bullshit then I'm sorry, but when some idiot on here says they are a Pearl Jam fan and in the next sentence say there is more BLACK ON BLACK CRIME IN AMERICA THAN WHITE ON WHITE and how it's okay to Militarize Police.. then yes in my opinion they don't understand what WTF PJ music is about.."The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
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ever been to the st. louis area? just curious. by far more blacks than whites.dignin said:
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.rr165892 said:Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder.
If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/14/ferguson-police-department-details/14064451/
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.0 -
No I haven't. Despite all the bad news coming from there as of late I would love to go see that part of the country and will eventually. Might take a PJ concert.chadwick said:
ever been to the st. louis area? just curious. by far more blacks than whites.dignin said:
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.rr165892 said:Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder.
If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/14/ferguson-police-department-details/14064451/
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
In the same article they say that 67% of the population is african american. Judge from the numbers what you will, I'm just throwing them out there.
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i see what you are saying and i like your diplomatic approach, but i really dont think it is any more complicated than better behavior when somebody is watching...il accept that some of that percentage is from civillians knowing they are on camera, but the result is the same, lower rates of force and resistance. Of course, until this is widely employed we cant know for sure, but I'd bet the farm the vast majority of depts would show numbers in a 20% range of those two figures.hedonist said:I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Fair to ask those questions. Either way I don't see how this type of thing shouldn't be implemented everywhere.hedonist said:I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.
I would be real interested in seeing the results.
Like rgambs said, if they can afford tanks why couldn't they afford to do this?
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Thanks for the numbers PJ.It does seem its a bit lopsidedPJ_Soul said:
There are 53 officers on the Ferguson police force and only 3 of them are black (or 4 - for some reason that number is unclear), and every single other cop is white. There is not a single other ethnicity represented in the force. So we're talking local police force.... however, almost all of Missouri is white - it's like Ferguson is where all the black people are - so the stats for the state police are similar, but much less meaningful.rr165892 said:
Stats on how many qualified black applicants tried for employment within the dept would be helpful.How many officers do they employ?Is there a hiring practice issue(different discussion).State police and county don't have the same demographically challenged issues do they?PJ_Soul said:
But 65% of the population in Ferguson is black. And only 6% of their police force is black. Ummmm...... I think I see a bit of a problem here.dignin said:
We must be reading different news. Also rr I'm still waiting for a link talking about the dozens of witnesses backing the cops version of the events.rr165892 said:Dosent Holders presence in and of itself play right into the crowd mentality of guilt by accusation.Why this issue for the glorious presences of Holder.
If this cop gets a fair shake I'd be surprised.Its a no win for DA and the Federal Gov should NOT be involved here.There is no pre established racially motivated actions,nor does the cop have a history of race issue.This is a local issue.Elected local officials should be dealing with this.It does not reach a Civil Rights violation.Not a federal issue and would be a slippery slope if they take it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/14/ferguson-police-department-details/14064451/
2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson
Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.
According to the Ferguson police, this massive discrepancy is due to the fact that all the black people in Ferguson have an ongoing distrust of the police force and therefore don't want to be on it. I'd say that statement reenforces the idea that the police force has problems related to racial relations, and that's under the very dubious assumption that the police chief is telling the truth (or is even capable of recognizing if there is a problem). It doesn't explain anything away at all.
Another interesting fact: "Missouri law requires the state’s attorney general to issue an annual Vehicle Stops Report detailing demographic information for people pulled over by officers in each city. In 2013, the attorney general’s office reported that black drivers in Ferguson were about twice as likely to be arrested after police stops than whites. Blacks made up 93 percent of 2013 arrests after car stops." (politifact.com)0 -
aljazeera.com/programmes/faultlines/2014/03/deadly-force-
arming-america-police-2014348442383391.html
Caught this on tv the other day, it was quite interesting (and sad)0 -
I don't really see a downside to it, much like with many (most?) police cars being fitted with dash-cams.dignin said:
Fair to ask those questions. Either way I don't see how this type of thing shouldn't be implemented everywhere.hedonist said:I'm all for those reductions - but drawing a conclusion about the police across the country based on this study applying to one police force of how many officers?
And...I wonder if the reduction is in part due to those interacting with the police knowing they'll be on camera as well.
Trying to look at this from as many sides as possible.
I would be real interested in seeing the results.
Like rgambs said, if they can afford tanks why couldn't they afford to do this?
Fairly reasonable cost-wise, with much to gain.
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Digin,Rgambsdignin said:
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.rgambs said:cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance??
I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence.
Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/nypd-body-worn-camera-pilot-chokehold-death
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death
Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
Your both very on point with the cameras.It is that easy.None of this is happening if video footage could set the record straight.I think this should be mandatory .0 -
Unfortunately police unions have for the most part been fighting camera use throughout the country. It would just solve so much bullshit.... Cops would be held accountable for bad behavior, and for the cop and the department's benefit, bullshit complaints would be basically eliminated.rr165892 said:
Digin,Rgambsdignin said:
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.rgambs said:cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance??
I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence.
Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/nypd-body-worn-camera-pilot-chokehold-death
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death
Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.
Your both very on point with the cameras.It is that easy.None of this is happening if video footage could set the record straight.I think this should be mandatory .My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
Can you try again but keeping the quotations as per their original integrity?rgambs said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
I agree that an outside agency should be the ones to investigate this incident.dignin said:
I have no problem with what you are saying here. I have a problem with people claiming things as fact when they have not been proven as such yet.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Herein lies the problem: you have this backwards. The cops do not have the burden of proving Wilson acted appropriately- unless he is charged and to his defence. The current investigation will try to determine whether excessive force was used and in the event this is established... it is up to the people to demonstrate such by proving it.dignin said:
Are these the same dozens of witnesses you referenced hearing about on CNN? I've heard other witnesses say different, but I'm not claiming that what they have said is fact.rr165892 said:
Kid on film robbing store=factdignin said:
Exactly stick with the facts. None of what you wrote here are facts. They maybe true but we don't know that yet.rr165892 said:
Blackredyellow,callen said:
Yeah had issues with those lines as well. But in end if all were part of the bounty would be better.blackredyellow said:
A lot of it is, until you get to this part:callen said:
Agree with most of what RR wrote. Think it's pretty universally accepted.Cliffy6745 said:
How the hell do you know all this?rr165892 said:
These areas are powder kegs of emotion.IMO its more about economics and the frustration of being trapped within this enviorment.Race just plays as an easy way to vent this built up angst as a scapegoat for the real issues .Cliffy6745 said:
Not you.rr165892 said:
Why is this Rascist?I can't speak for others,but I hate criminals of all colors.And in THIS case I think the kid was a thug not an angel and his actions led to his demise.No color neededCliffy6745 said:Yay, I see the racist is out in force since I last checked in.
Travon was way more innocent then this clown was.
Although while you say this specific cop doesn't have a history of race issues, it does sound like the entire police force does, in general.
Maybe you should also give the investigators a call since you know so much about how it went down.
"Are freedoms and rights being suppressed ? no.Are random people being singled out based on color? No"
Truth is, we don't know that the answers are "no". If you can't walk down the street without getting followed and questioned, or you get beaten by an over zealous cop, I would imagine that you would feel like your rights are being suppressed. And the arrest stats seem to show that black people are being singled out.
I'm not sure of the legal definition of discrimination, maybe these citizens aren't being denied jobs or education or housing based on their skin color, but if you feel like you are being harrassed and not given a fair shake, because you are a certain color, that has to be some sort of discrimination, right?
Sort of like sexual harassment.., it's basically harassment if the victim feels harassed. It's obvious that these people feel harassed based on their skin color.
Lets not forget he was hassled because he was walking down the middle of the fucking road,being a belligerent cocky asshole to the cop while holding a handful of stolen goods which he just strong armed robbed from a hard working fellow member of his community.So random targeting based on color holds zero weight here.Stick with facts
Walking in road witnessed by everyone=fact
Mouthing off to cop witnessed by many=fact
Had cigars on him=fact
Only thing that is conjecture is he wasn't singled out.
As far as the robbery goes, we still don't know the facts surrounding that. Only what the police have stated, which as has been shown before, they are not above reproach. I have not yet heard a
This forum consistently demands that people enjoy the rights afforded to them by law. Hell, half the damn community insisted we treat the Boston bombers with dignity and fairness- citing they were innocent until proven guilty. Yet... here... a cop kills a 'gentle giant' in a close quarter confrontation and some of the same people are demanding the cop's head on a platter before due process.
And, without video evidence... it might come down to word vs. word. If this is the case, who are you inclined to believe?
I think the cop should have his due process. I may think the process is probably rigged in his favour given that the police generally investigate each other in these matters, friends investigating friends, but that is an issue for another thread.
I can only assume that they will take into account all the eye witnesses at the scene and see if they match the forensic evidence, this includes the officer in question. I do not take a cops statement with any more validity than a witnesses statement, especially when the cop is involved in said incident.
I agree that the statement by the involved officer is subject to question.
I disagree with the broad based assertion that a police officer's statement is on par with that of any average joe on the street. While there certainly have been examples of deceit in police testimony (as there have been in any profession), I give them more credit and respect than that."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
you folks have sales receipts from the ferguson, missouri police department showing they flat out purchase tanks? how about the national guard donating their old equipment or putting older equipment up for auction? how about the military having auctions geting rid of their old ass shit for cheap? i would be very surprised if the ferguson, missouri police department buys high dollar tanks or cheap ass tanks.for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/18/police-in-columbia-south-carolina-and-49
free
free & free
as in gifted
also this isn't quite a tank but i'm still looking
MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicle
tax payers on the hook it seemsPost edited by chadwick onfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
They don't have a tank, no police force in the area does. It's just lazy journalism calling MRAPs and armored personnel carries "tanks".chadwick said:http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/18/police-in-columbia-south-carolina-and-49
free
free & free
as in gifted
also this isn't quite a tank but i'm still looking
MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicle
But yeah, they got a lot of the stuff free from the military.
As far as cameras go, if they could eliminate one big lawsuit settlement for police brutality, you'd think that would pay for all the cameras they could ever need.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
anyone want a heavy armored vehicle or a fucking mcdonald's happy meal toy to throw at bad guys?
pepper spray? comedy gold to some folks. i remember reading the other week ago - pepper spray or taser works. yep... not really. nor does a gun shot to the abdomen work with some mad dudeshttp://youtu.be/xMu5IEZZZaE
http://youtu.be/eQxzrErec8U
Post edited by chadwick onfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
Wow
Wow. Good stuff. Thanks for info.dignin said:
I posted this in the police abuse thread and it is relevant here also.rgambs said:cops need to be video recorded as they go about their jobs, and that goes for everyone's protection, the cop included. This solves almost every problem with police brutality and the he said she said that follows. Again, they can afford armored vehicles and military weapons but not surveillance??
I think that any officer who kills an unarmed citizen should be removed from "street duty"...not based on the assumption that they have done "something wrong" but based on the psychological damage that follows..2 psych evals from industry buddies doesnt provide much confidence.
Case in point: Canton, OH..an officer caught on cruiser cam pulls gun on non-aggressive concealed carrier and says (paraphrase) "i should fucking shoot you in the head". Man sues department, cop keeps his job. The reason?? The cop suffered traumatic experiences on the job that led to his behavior. Somehow, he is psychologically cleared to brandish a firearm during the exact same time as he successfully defends himself using pyschological trauma. Make sense? Of course not, but thats what happens with any industry trusted to self-regulate, it is a completely moronic idea at its core.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/nypd-body-worn-camera-pilot-chokehold-death
NYPD urged to step up body-worn camera pilot after chokehold death
Amid accusations of excessive force and increasing civilian video of police activity, New York officers may wear cameras while on duty
The most cited study of the effects of body-worn cameras on policing is Cambridge University’s examination of the police department in Rialto, California. After cameras were introduced in February 2012, officers’ use of force dropped 59%, and complaints against officers plummeted by 88%.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
interesting stuff, FPD are so concerned for the public well being...
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Another_Shooting_In_Ferguson0 -
I'm not saying he didn't get injured but there are videos of the aftermath and he doesn't appear to be nursing wounds or having anyone look at his wounds.Godfather. said:
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