I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.
I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.
I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.
But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.
Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?
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I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Big government lovers are sure getting their wish.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
Big government lovers are sure getting their wish.
Expound.
Well I'm sitting in Boston Logan so I'm on my phone but basically big government means more control of the daily life of a person. Respect their authority.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
I wonder how any one of us on the train would have reacted in that officers situation ? and remember these police officers have to deal with thugs everyday and have to constantly be on guard, it's ez to say "I would have done it differently" ...what's that indian thing about walking a mile in someone elses shoes ?
Respect is earned, for all we know, this guy has been abused by law enforcement before, he may have a history.
But what seems clear is that he was out of his mind, mentally unstable, drugged up. We dont quite know yet,
Our police forces have a history of abuse, we know the stories, we know it happens.
I'll say it again, I really don't think it was necessary for the officer to fire his gun at that point in time.
So the officer that goes after robbers,killers, drunk drivers, risking his life everyday for your safety should take one for the team, placing his life in danger, so you feel better about a guy getting shot. Think be great for you to volunteer to ride with a police officer for few nights or BETTER YET you become a police officer and coddle criminals and violently insane humans.
Don't want to sound mean. Just put yourself in their shoes. Life sucks sometimes and sooooo glad some humans want to be police officers cause I sure as hell don't want to be one. Also know there are bad cops, been on receiving end three times and bad cops should be fired. But think it's too fucking easy to criticize sitting in safety of your home.
Am I turning into a conservative douche loosing my happy love everybody vibe. Oh shit.
I'm been around cops, and sat in with cops doing the 'protecting and serving' before, why would u think I dont have experience?
This happens a lot here, many people like you assume that just because one has time to post here they dont have a certain life experience in the past/present.
Its quite ignorant, and perhaps is just a reflection of yourself projected onto others?
You think I've always been in the safety of my home? Just because I am, right now, typing this?
Ask questions and get to know someone before coming up with such things.
You are not being mean, you are being ignorant and that is only an injustice to yourself.
Not sure how many times I need to repeat myself, I was speaking about this one specific case, which resulted in an outcome that I think could of been avoided.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
I wonder how any one of us on the train would have reacted in that officers situation ? and remember these police officers have to deal with thugs everyday and have to constantly be on guard, it's ez to say "I would have done it differently" ...what's that indian thing about walking a mile in someone elses shoes ?
Godfather.
I think its' walk a mile in someone else's shoes... and you'll find yourself a mile away from a shoeless person?
I've only watched the video on my phone and can't tell for sure whether he has a knife or not. Either way, it is not inconceivable that the police believed he had a knife. Either through mistaking what they saw or as a result of the robbery report, they could have believed a knife was present and part of the threat.
That is not to say their response was not overkill. Nor does it explain handcuffing a dead body.
I see nothing wrong with the cops handcuffing the guy. They may not know he's dead. Most of these guys are not paramedics and are not trained in checking vitals. Once again, their job is to regain control of the situation. Once the shooting ended, they have have to cuff the guy because if the guy isn't dead, he couple possibly pose a threat. As harsh as that may sound, it's part of regaining control of the situation.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
You can't say that after two shot the man is incapacitated. If your life depended on making sure that guy is down and can't get up I'm sure you wouldn't think two shots was enough.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
I wonder how any one of us on the train would have reacted in that officers situation ? and remember these police officers have to deal with thugs everyday and have to constantly be on guard, it's ez to say "I would have done it differently" ...what's that indian thing about walking a mile in someone elses shoes ?
Godfather.
I think its' walk a mile in someone else's shoes... and you'll find yourself a mile away from a shoeless person?
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
Sorry, but the second they fired that gun, they 'lost' control of the situation.
We differ in mindset, that's fine.
I have no more to say on this.
It's all about stopping the threat.Not wounding.Police are trained to put the threat down.Multiple shots= massive internal organ bleed out= stopping threat.Police basics here.This is not the movies. I think there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the posts on here.Story would change Im sure if you or your family was threatened and you needed these same cops to help you.
Crazy dude is approaching your 7 year old daughter,has a knife in hand,won't listen to repeated demands to disarm and hault.You want the cop to stop this crazy fuck or now is negotiating and taser the best way?if you said "taser"your fucking lying.You would want your family member safe no matter what.Please save my child!!!!! Why does that law enforcement officers life not have the same value as the child?The perp already devalued his position by offering up a threat with a knife,and advancing.
That is a totally incomparable situation. A man approaching a young child with a weapon has nothing to do with a man standing in the street with cops surrounding him.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
but remember no one on the cops' side here is a real pearl jam. whacky
so to be a real pearl jam fan one must be on the side of allowing riots, attacks on the cops by violent shits & so on. or try & be a comedian when you're not even close to being funny at all & over 90% of your jokes are goofy as shit? then only real pearl jam fans. i mean really...
goofy ass bullshit comedy & supporting the attacking of cops or coming at cops with belligerence & a weapon & supporting those acting the fool in st. louis = real pearl jam fans
makes sense
You don't honestly think that's what people are saying here, is it Chadwick??
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
You can't say that after two shot the man is incapacitated. If your life depended on making sure that guy is down and can't get up I'm sure you wouldn't think two shots was enough.
clearly you wouldnt, but that doesnt mean the rest of us wouldnt. Also, to those who ridicule the cops getting back in the car, steel and safety glass beats knife every day of the week. If being macho wasnt so important to the american ethos you might consider that retreat can be a tactical move that can still results in victory.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
Sorry, but the second they fired that gun, they 'lost' control of the situation.
We differ in mindset, that's fine.
I have no more to say on this.
It's all about stopping the threat.Not wounding.Police are trained to put the threat down.Multiple shots= massive internal organ bleed out= stopping threat.Police basics here.This is not the movies. I think there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the posts on here.Story would change Im sure if you or your family was threatened and you needed these same cops to help you.
Crazy dude is approaching your 7 year old daughter,has a knife in hand,won't listen to repeated demands to disarm and hault.You want the cop to stop this crazy fuck or now is negotiating and taser the best way?if you said "taser"your fucking lying.You would want your family member safe no matter what.Please save my child!!!!! Why does that law enforcement officers life not have the same value as the child?The perp already devalued his position by offering up a threat with a knife,and advancing.
That is a totally incomparable situation. A man approaching a young child with a weapon has nothing to do with a man standing in the street with cops surrounding him.
I've only watched the video on my phone and can't tell for sure whether he has a knife or not. Either way, it is not inconceivable that the police believed he had a knife. Either through mistaking what they saw or as a result of the robbery report, they could have believed a knife was present and part of the threat.
That is not to say their response was not overkill. Nor does it explain handcuffing a dead body.
I see nothing wrong with the cops handcuffing the guy. They may not know he's dead. Most of these guys are not paramedics and are not trained in checking vitals. Once again, their job is to regain control of the situation. Once the shooting ended, they have have to cuff the guy because if the guy isn't dead, he couple possibly pose a threat. As harsh as that may sound, it's part of regaining control of the situation.
Yeah, I couldn't care less if a dead body is handcuffed. I don't know what that has to do with anything. The dude's dead anyhow, so why would it matter either way, right?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.
I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.
I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.
But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.
Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?
We're not too far apart. In particular, when you say, Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life... this is what I've basically been trying to get at. You also said it again when you wrote: Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.
And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.
I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.
I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.
I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.
But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.
Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?
We're not too far apart. In particular, when you say, Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life... this is what I've basically been trying to get at. You also said it again when you wrote: Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.
And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.
I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.
I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.
I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.
But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.
Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?
We're not too far apart. In particular, when you say, Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life... this is what I've basically been trying to get at. You also said it again when you wrote: Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.
And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.
I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.
I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.
I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.
But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.
Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?
We're not too far apart. In particular, when you say, Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life... this is what I've basically been trying to get at. You also said it again when you wrote: Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.
And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.
I agree.
Well let's drink to that!
Wait, drink what? I don't drink alcohol...How about a cup of Green Tea? >-
I'll make you a cup, some RAW honey, a little fresh lemon, it's very healthy and relaxing.
I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.
I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.
I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.
But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.
Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?
We're not too far apart. In particular, when you say, Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life... this is what I've basically been trying to get at. You also said it again when you wrote: Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.
And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.
I agree.
Well let's drink to that!
Wait, drink what? I don't drink alcohol...How about a cup of Green Tea? >-
I'll make you a cup, some RAW honey, a little fresh lemon, it's very healthy and relaxing.
I'm okay with that. I need it after a rough 18 (life's tough, eh?).
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
You can't say that after two shot the man is incapacitated. If your life depended on making sure that guy is down and can't get up I'm sure you wouldn't think two shots was enough.
The guy immediately fell to the floor and laid flat. I'd call that incapacitated, but maybe thats just me.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
You can't say that after two shot the man is incapacitated. If your life depended on making sure that guy is down and can't get up I'm sure you wouldn't think two shots was enough.
The guy immediately fell to the floor and laid flat. I'd call that incapacitated, but maybe thats just me.
Exactly. That's just you.
But you weren't actually there and you have no previous experiences from which to shape your mentality to deal with the situation that was presented.
I would agree that it looks excessive and extreme, but I'll never overlook the fact that this guy pushed the envelope way too far and forced the issue. He had more control than people are willing to concede.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.
You can't say that after two shot the man is incapacitated. If your life depended on making sure that guy is down and can't get up I'm sure you wouldn't think two shots was enough.
The guy immediately fell to the floor and laid flat. I'd call that incapacitated, but maybe thats just me.
Exactly. That's just you.
But you weren't actually there and you have no previous experiences from which to shape your mentality to deal with the situation that was presented.
I would agree that it looks excessive and extreme, but I'll never overlook the fact that this guy pushed the envelope way too far and forced the issue. He had more control than people are willing to concede.
We can still discuss it and criticize it. Basing on what you said, might as well shut this thread down since none of us have ever worn a uniform or shot a man dead with 13 rounds.
Aside from that, I'd be willing to guess that neither of those two officers had ever shot someone dead before that day either. So it might have been their first time too. now they have experience though.
Dont get me wrong, I agree with your last sentence thirty Bills. The guy deserved to get shot (or incapacitated somehow). My issue is that maybe these cops need better training or more alternatives.
Comments
I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.
But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.
Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.
I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?
Well I'm sitting in Boston Logan so I'm on my phone but basically big government means more control of the daily life of a person. Respect their authority.
Godfather.
This happens a lot here, many people like you assume that just because one has time to post here they dont have a certain life experience in the past/present.
Its quite ignorant, and perhaps is just a reflection of yourself projected onto others?
You think I've always been in the safety of my home? Just because I am, right now, typing this?
Ask questions and get to know someone before coming up with such things.
You are not being mean, you are being ignorant and that is only an injustice to yourself.
Not sure how many times I need to repeat myself, I was speaking about this one specific case, which resulted in an outcome that I think could of been avoided.
Godfather.
Also, to those who ridicule the cops getting back in the car, steel and safety glass beats knife every day of the week. If being macho wasnt so important to the american ethos you might consider that retreat can be a tactical move that can still results in victory.
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/how-to-fix-the-police-a-former-chief-is-here-to-take-y-1625588063/all
It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.
And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.
I'll make you a cup, some RAW honey, a little fresh lemon, it's very healthy and relaxing.
But you weren't actually there and you have no previous experiences from which to shape your mentality to deal with the situation that was presented.
I would agree that it looks excessive and extreme, but I'll never overlook the fact that this guy pushed the envelope way too far and forced the issue. He had more control than people are willing to concede.
Aside from that, I'd be willing to guess that neither of those two officers had ever shot someone dead before that day either. So it might have been their first time too. now they have experience though.