Thirtybills my quote button isn't working but I would like to point out that those figures don't add anything but confusion to the debate. As pointed out, the police fatality figures are very vague and the wikipedia link you posted says that "The list below is incomplete, as the annual average number of SELF-REPORTED justifiable homicides...is estimated to be near 400.". And "An incomplete survey using internet sources puts the figure at 607(4)." Where the hell did 161 come from?
That being said, the invalid figures do not refute your point that the overwhelming majority of incidences between police and civilians are on the up and up. That point is clearly irrefutable.
Thirtybills my quote button isn't working but I would like to point out that those figures don't add anything but confusion to the debate. As pointed out, the police fatality figures are very vague and the wikipedia link you posted says that "The list below is incomplete, as the annual average number of SELF-REPORTED justifiable homicides...is estimated to be near 400.". And "An incomplete survey using internet sources puts the figure at 607(4)." Where the hell did 161 come from?
That being said, the invalid figures do not refute your point that the overwhelming majority of incidences between police and civilians are on the up and up. That point is clearly irrefutable.
I had a difficult time finding a comprehensive collection of data to refer to. I counted the cases cited for the total of 161. The list is prefaced with what you say, but I wasn't prepared to offer what the contributor said was an 'estimate'- although I'd admit it very well could be.
I used the data- as flawed as it might be- to frame my point which is the Michael Brown cases that dominate the headlines are very rare statistical oddities given the amount of police work that occurs daily without incident.
I would be inclined to agree that incidents between police and civilians that do not work out so well for civilians saturate the various forms of media more than ever before. For such a savvy group that frequents this forum, I struggle with the growing propensity to paint a country's entire police force as a rogue and militant force that is out of control based on these outliers that we are presented with periodically.
I still hold fast to the notion that police are good and criminals are bad. That being said, once again qualifying myself, if it is found that a police officer has acted maliciously... they need to face the consequences of their actions.
* By the way... I'm well past the 'failed quote feature and unanswered question' exchanges. I noticed a tongue in cheek reference to it- I hope you're past it too and that was good natured.
Oh yes I'm past it as well, I meant it as a simple statement. Perhaps my tongue was resting lightly on my cheek. :-) I really do have technological problems out here in the boonies!
If they wore cameras, and the FBI kept comprehensive figures we would have a better idea how big of a problem police brutality is, and we would be able to work toward solutions more effectively. I think it's simple... More/better training, more/better regulation, and more/better compensation. It seems to me, if police made as much as doctors we would have less trouble holding them to exacting standards.
Oh yes I'm past it as well, I meant it as a simple statement. Perhaps my tongue was resting lightly on my cheek. :-) I really do have technological problems out here in the boonies!
If they wore cameras, and the FBI kept comprehensive figures we would have a better idea how big of a problem police brutality is, and we would be able to work toward solutions more effectively. I think it's simple... More/better training, more/better regulation, and more/better compensation. It seems to me, if police made as much as doctors we would have less trouble holding them to exacting standards.
If officers wore cameras, I wonder how much of the footage they collect would mysteriously go missing?
Oh yes I'm past it as well, I meant it as a simple statement. Perhaps my tongue was resting lightly on my cheek. :-) I really do have technological problems out here in the boonies!
If they wore cameras, and the FBI kept comprehensive figures we would have a better idea how big of a problem police brutality is, and we would be able to work toward solutions more effectively. I think it's simple... More/better training, more/better regulation, and more/better compensation. It seems to me, if police made as much as doctors we would have less trouble holding them to exacting standards.
If officers wore cameras, I wonder how much of the footage they collect would mysteriously go missing?
Wow, just heard on CNN a guy that was skyping and got the audio of the gunshots from the shooting. The FBI are trying to verify the audio now. There were 11 shots fired. 6 rounds, then about a 4-5 second pause, then 5 more rounds.
There is something recording everywhere at all times. If this is real, it is real evidence that we have all been waiting for. This cop may be in some big trouble.
Just curious does Skype record the audio from the calls? I have Skyped and face timed with my family and just curious. Why would that be recorded? Interesting.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
No worries. I just seen it. I was just worried that someone else is recording us now.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Ok, why would you record a Skype conversation? Also those shots are fucking loud wouldn't that make someone jump and say WTF? I would have.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
What's strange is that there is no incident report? Strange that the officer that took justifiable action is hiding? Strange that medics were not called after the shooting?Strange that the body was left uncovered on display in the street for hours? Strange that the only thing released by police is Brown character assassination? Strange that police were given stand down orders to the looting? On and on and on and on....
Everything is recorded, everywhere, we live in 1984 lol If you have a smartphone pretty much every app (Chrome, FB etc.) has permission to record photo/video/audio without authorization. Seems like that's going to be a problem at some point!
Yeah add this recording to the other existing evidence and we still have murder at this point.
This recording backs up the eyewitnesses accounts. The cop was shooting as Brown and Johnson were running away. Brown turns with his arms up and gets four more bullets...two of which are head shots...the final entering the top of his skull NOT because he was charging the officer but because he was dying
To me the biggest piece of evidence backing up the eyewitnesses accounts is that the body was 35 feet from the police car. Whatever "struggle" might have occurred was done and the kid was running away.
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Everything is recorded, everywhere, we live in 1984 lol If you have a smartphone pretty much every app (Chrome, FB etc.) has permission to record photo/video/audio without authorization. Seems like that's going to be a problem at some point!
It seems to me that it's a bigger problem when you have something to hide. If the recording is verified (and I suspect it will be), it certainly isn't something that Officer Wilson wants out there. While I hope to maintain a certain level of privacy in my life, I appreciate that with today's technology that such expectations are no longer realistic.
As much as I want to give the officer the benefit of the doubt, with everything that is piling up... it's hard to do.
At this stage, I'm not completely sold on the audio recording- I don't think it would be admissible in a court of law given the ambiguity of it. But the rest of what we know looks pretty bad.
It's becoming evident that Brown and the officer got into a conflict and the officer didn't like the way it went down for himself. He got angry and shot the kid dead. It's becoming indefensible based on what we have been fed.
rapid shots fired in that online recording. funny thing is two things... one - why didn't this come out two weeks ago or did it? & second - i thought mike brown's little buddy said the cop fired once while wrestling around w/ mike inside the car? or something very close to that
rapid shots fired in that online recording. funny thing is two things... one - why didn't this come out two weeks ago or did it? & second - i thought mike brown's little buddy said the cop fired once while wrestling around w/ mike inside the car? or something very close to that
something stinks
The whole thing stinks! I don't think ANYBODY involved is telling the complete truth. :(
Comments
That being said, the invalid figures do not refute your point that the overwhelming majority of incidences between police and civilians are on the up and up. That point is clearly irrefutable.
I used the data- as flawed as it might be- to frame my point which is the Michael Brown cases that dominate the headlines are very rare statistical oddities given the amount of police work that occurs daily without incident.
I would be inclined to agree that incidents between police and civilians that do not work out so well for civilians saturate the various forms of media more than ever before. For such a savvy group that frequents this forum, I struggle with the growing propensity to paint a country's entire police force as a rogue and militant force that is out of control based on these outliers that we are presented with periodically.
I still hold fast to the notion that police are good and criminals are bad. That being said, once again qualifying myself, if it is found that a police officer has acted maliciously... they need to face the consequences of their actions.
* By the way... I'm well past the 'failed quote feature and unanswered question' exchanges. I noticed a tongue in cheek reference to it- I hope you're past it too and that was good natured.
If they wore cameras, and the FBI kept comprehensive figures we would have a better idea how big of a problem police brutality is, and we would be able to work toward solutions more effectively. I think it's simple... More/better training, more/better regulation, and more/better compensation. It seems to me, if police made as much as doctors we would have less trouble holding them to exacting standards.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
prob thought that was grey? He is just for men!
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/friends-israel
This cop may be in some big trouble.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Ingenius!
If you have a smartphone pretty much every app (Chrome, FB etc.) has permission to record photo/video/audio without authorization. Seems like that's going to be a problem at some point!
This recording backs up the eyewitnesses accounts. The cop was shooting as Brown and Johnson were running away. Brown turns with his arms up and gets four more bullets...two of which are head shots...the final entering the top of his skull NOT because he was charging the officer but because he was dying
To me the biggest piece of evidence backing up the eyewitnesses accounts is that the body was 35 feet from the police car. Whatever "struggle" might have occurred was done and the kid was running away.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
At this stage, I'm not completely sold on the audio recording- I don't think it would be admissible in a court of law given the ambiguity of it. But the rest of what we know looks pretty bad.
It's becoming evident that Brown and the officer got into a conflict and the officer didn't like the way it went down for himself. He got angry and shot the kid dead. It's becoming indefensible based on what we have been fed.
something stinks
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
add up?
not quite
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce