And I'm sorry, if he was crawling towards the cop with a fork, you would still defend the cop for opening a round? Into the guys body? Cause he refused to listen? Yikes!
Cause its tougher, u don't do it? Not even attempt?
I've seen it done before, it can be done. And this guy was not exactly quick paced, from the video it seems like a leg shot was possible.
Anyway, its just sad. It really is sad what our society is right now.
If you threaten a police officer with knife and walk towards him you deserve to die. Cops should not need to put their safety at risk at all to save a deranged suicidal person. I find it sad that this is not universally accepted.
So if you are mentally ill or disabled or suicidal and not at all lucid or capable of making good decisions you deserve to die?
Remember, being mentally ill in america seems to make you a scumbag. A mess that needs to be cleaned up.
Not sure if your directing this at me but I see plight of the mentally ill daily and it's appalling how American society does little to anything do agree 100% that it sucks. But to blame the police for wanting to go home to their wife and kids minimizing their risks is nuts. And it's nuts that we want to blame cops for our fucking up. Life sucks and it's too easy to blame cops.
No it wasn't directed at you. I have seen others compare these black men, some obviously mentally ill, as scumbags. That is pretty sad.
Life does suck, but if the cops shot everyone who they come across who is mentally ill and threatening, there would be a lot more dead people on our streets. Most cops are doing it right. These latest cops seem to be doing it wrong.
This new shooting does look like suicide by cop. Guy looked disturbed but not threatening to anyone until the cops showed up. There had to be a better way than shooting him 17 seconds after arrival. I don't know the answer, but there had to be a better way.
How in the world can you make the judgement that he wasn't a threat? To those cols arriving on scene, be most certainly was a threat. He was charging at two armed cops with a knife and refused to put it down.
That's not what I said. Go back and read my comment.
It seems ridiculous to me that there are people here suggesting that the police "take a leg shot" or "get back in their car" or "fire warning shots." What is wrong with you guys? These guys are out here risking their lives to protect yours.
so the guy stole a honey bun and 2 sodas.
that cost the store less than $2.
i don't need deadly force/protection from that.
if the cops can't act reasonably, which lately none of them seem to be able to, then they need a desk job where they don't have to deal with the public.
as i said before. these cops are bullies, and in most cases the bully is the biggest coward, and the most scared.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
I believe the account the police said was that he was charging the officers with his hand raised. The video doesn't show him charging or his hands raised, but he was still walking towards them with a knife and not complying with their orders.
There will always be disagreements on how things should have been handled but it's hard to say what any of us would do unless we are in that same situation. In this situation the officers were dealing with someone who wasn’t right in the head, you don’t rob a store, wait outside for the cops to arrive and then scream at them to kill you as you approach them with a knife if you’re thinking correctly. Do they tase him and hope he goes down? Have we not all seen videos of people getting tased and it not affecting them? A probe could miss or not stick properly, or the person could be so full of drugs that it doesn’t even bother him. What happens if the cops decided to tase and it doesn’t take affect? By then there might not be enough time to draw your weapon before the man jumps you and then you're fighting for your life against a deranged person.
I agree that respect is earned, but in an individual level. People have to respect law enforcement, as a whole. That's why we pull over when we see blue lights in our rearview mirror (yes, I know if you don't, u get a ticket). But you get the point. I can only see two reasons why this guy wouldn't stop: 1) he was intending to hurt the cops or 2) he wanted to commit suicide.
There is a possibility that he was mentally incapacitated at the time, but if that we the case I think he still would have been trying to harm the cops.
yeah that is a ct scan alright. a blowout fracture can be seen on plain film x rays, but a ct would show better definition because it takes thin cuts so you can better visualize it. but yeah, i had heard that that blowout fracture story had been debunked because the ct scan was done at university of iowa, which is nowhere near here.
the best way to tell if a ct scan is even indicated is if the patient is unable to move his eye to look up.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
It seems ridiculous to me that there are people here suggesting that the police "take a leg shot" or "get back in their car" or "fire warning shots." What is wrong with you guys? These guys are out here risking their lives to protect yours.
so the guy stole a honey bun and 2 sodas.
that cost the store less than $2.
i don't need deadly force/protection from that.
if the cops can't act reasonably, which lately none of them seem to be able to, then they need a desk job where they don't have to deal with the public.
as i said before. these cops are bullies, and in most cases the bully is the biggest coward, and the most scared.
I don’t think it matters what the crime was or how much was stolen. He broke the law and was walking around with a knife. The cops were called in and when they got there they did what they felt was necessary to make sure that he didn’t hurt them or anyone else for that matter when the man wasn’t doing what they were asking him to do. Once again, if the man had complied with the officers orders he would still be alive today. Let’s put the blame on where it should be, a man who was obviously looking to die and decided to do it by suicide by cop.
yeah that is a ct scan alright. a blowout fracture can be seen on plain film x rays, but a ct would show better definition because it takes thin cuts so you can better visualize it. but yeah, i had heard that that blowout fracture story had been debunked because the ct scan was done at university of iowa, which is nowhere near here.
the best way to tell if a ct scan is even indicated is if the patient is unable to move his eye to look up.
which is why i'm not siding with the police in this matter...yes, ofc wilson was attacked by brown...but by all accounts i've read or seen, it was brief and brown was walking away when wilson started firing...now i understand heat of the moment and adrenaline but once brown turned with his hands in the air, a well trained police officer should know to stop firing...the ferguson police are trying to cover up wilson's mistake and put it all on brown...and that's just wrong
I believe the account the police said was that he was charging the officers with his hand raised. The video doesn't show him charging or his hands raised, but he was still walking towards them with a knife and not complying with their orders.
Do they tase him and hope he goes down? we not all seen videos of people getting tased and it not affecting them? A probe could miss or not stick properly, or the person could be so full of drugs that it doesn’t even bother him. What happens if the cops decided to tase and it doesn’t take affect? By then there might not be enough time to draw your weapon before the man jumps you and then you're fighting for your life against a deranged person.
Yes, they taze and hope they go down...if it does not take hold, and the officer gets hurt, 'Occupational Hazard'... Like it was said earlier by someone, the cops are out on the streets risking 'their', 'lives' to PROTECT and SERVE 'us', it was clear the man who was shot had issues, and the cop only protected himself (which is what people are saying) by shooting first, Worries about his life, over the clearly ill man. (I'm not saying the officer should not worry about his own life)
Try non lethal force first, and hopefully you will have enough time to go deadly as a last resort, and in this case, with the man clearly walking very slowly towards the officer, I see no need to go for the multiple shots to kill the man first method.
And this notion that because someone doesn't immediately obey what an office says, that gives the officer justification for killing. What nonsense,
2014, USA, and this is our best way to deal witha crazy(?) Person?
If you are an armed person and you don’t comply with what an officer is saying, then yes, that is justification for an officer shooting at you, especially when a man with a knife is within a few feet of you.
If you are an armed person and you don’t comply with what an officer is saying, then yes, that is justification for an officer shooting at you, especially when a man with a knife is within a few feet of you.
Do you see no other way, in this specific case? It was really, truly, necessary?
It seems ridiculous to me that there are people here suggesting that the police "take a leg shot" or "get back in their car" or "fire warning shots." What is wrong with you guys? These guys are out here risking their lives to protect yours.
so the guy stole a honey bun and 2 sodas.
that cost the store less than $2.
i don't need deadly force/protection from that.
if the cops can't act reasonably, which lately none of them seem to be able to, then they need a desk job where they don't have to deal with the public.
as i said before. these cops are bullies, and in most cases the bully is the biggest coward, and the most scared.
I don’t think it matters what the crime was or how much was stolen. He broke the law and was walking around with a knife. The cops were called in and when they got there they did what they felt was necessary to do to make sure that he didn’t hurt them or anyone else for that matter when the man wasn’t doing what they were asking him to do. Once again, if the man had complied with the officers orders he would still be alive today. Let’s put the blame on where it should be, a man who was obviously looking to die and decided to do it by suicide by cop.
i counted 13 gunshots.
that is overkill.
both officers unloaded on him.
how many times do you have to shoot a man when he is down??
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
It seems ridiculous to me that there are people here suggesting that the police "take a leg shot" or "get back in their car" or "fire warning shots." What is wrong with you guys? These guys are out here risking their lives to protect yours.
so the guy stole a honey bun and 2 sodas.
that cost the store less than $2.
i don't need deadly force/protection from that.
if the cops can't act reasonably, which lately none of them seem to be able to, then they need a desk job where they don't have to deal with the public.
as i said before. these cops are bullies, and in most cases the bully is the biggest coward, and the most scared.
I don’t think it matters what the crime was or how much was stolen. He broke the law and was walking around with a knife. The cops were called in and when they got there they did what they felt was necessary to do to make sure that he didn’t hurt them or anyone else for that matter when the man wasn’t doing what they were asking him to do. Once again, if the man had complied with the officers orders he would still be alive today. Let’s put the blame on where it should be, a man who was obviously looking to die and decided to do it by suicide by cop.
i counted 13 gunshots.
that is overkill.
both officers unloaded on him.
how many times do you have to shoot a man when he is down??
I will agree that 13 shots seems like a bit much, won't argue that point.
It seems ridiculous to me that there are people here suggesting that the police "take a leg shot" or "get back in their car" or "fire warning shots." What is wrong with you guys? These guys are out here risking their lives to protect yours.
so the guy stole a honey bun and 2 sodas.
that cost the store less than $2.
i don't need deadly force/protection from that.
if the cops can't act reasonably, which lately none of them seem to be able to, then they need a desk job where they don't have to deal with the public.
as i said before. these cops are bullies, and in most cases the bully is the biggest coward, and the most scared.
I don’t think it matters what the crime was or how much was stolen. He broke the law and was walking around with a knife. The cops were called in and when they got there they did what they felt was necessary to do to make sure that he didn’t hurt them or anyone else for that matter when the man wasn’t doing what they were asking him to do. Once again, if the man had complied with the officers orders he would still be alive today. Let’s put the blame on where it should be, a man who was obviously looking to die and decided to do it by suicide by cop.
i counted 13 gunshots.
that is overkill.
both officers unloaded on him.
how many times do you have to shoot a man when he is down??
I will agree that 13 shots seems like a bit much, won't argue that point.
Sure, they didn't even really pause between shots, I mean how many shots are "necessary"? As you say yourself, 13 is overkill.
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
Sorry, but the second they fired that gun, they 'lost' control of the situation.
We differ in mindset, that's fine.
I have no more to say on this.
So any time a copy fires a gun they have lost control of the situation? The whole point of having a gun is to have the ability to take control of the situation. Your statement doesn't make sense.
He wasn't shot for the robbery, he was shot for threatening the cops
And after the pause...what were the last 3 shots for? Bleeding on the sidewalk?
I don't know. I wasn't there. Maybe the cops thought he was reaching for a weapon. I watched the video only twice and I don't remember there being a pause. It's a disturbing video and I don't plan on watching it again.
And bootlegger10, I don't know if you are asking me about a cop shooting a gun but I would answer your question with yes. If a cop has to discharge his weapon, I would think that he (cop(s) are not in control of the situation. Why else would they have to shoot?
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
Sorry, but the second they fired that gun, they 'lost' control of the situation.
We differ in mindset, that's fine.
I have no more to say on this.
So any time a copy fires a gun they have lost control of the situation? The whole point of having a gun is to have the ability to take control of the situation. Your statement doesn't make sense.
Really, that's what you got out of what I posted? I was speaking about that specific situation. That specific encounter.
He wasn't shot for the robbery, he was shot for threatening the cops
Exactly,I was going to post the same.Also if he just put down the knife and LISTENED to warnings he would be very much alive.Hes dead because of his own foolishness.This is not on the cop for fuck sakes
No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.
Sorry, but the second they fired that gun, they 'lost' control of the situation.
We differ in mindset, that's fine.
I have no more to say on this.
It's all about stopping the threat.Not wounding.Police are trained to put the threat down.Multiple shots= massive internal organ bleed out= stopping threat.Police basics here.This is not the movies. I think there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the posts on here.Story would change Im sure if you or your family was threatened and you needed these same cops to help you.
Crazy dude is approaching your 7 year old daughter,has a knife in hand,won't listen to repeated demands to disarm and hault.You want the cop to stop this crazy fuck or now is negotiating and taser the best way?if you said "taser"your fucking lying.You would want your family member safe no matter what.Please save my child!!!!! Why does that law enforcement officers life not have the same value as the child?The perp already devalued his position by offering up a threat with a knife,and advancing.
but remember no one on the cops' side here is a real pearl jam. whacky
so to be a real pearl jam fan one must be on the side of allowing riots, attacks on the cops by violent shits & so on. or try & be a comedian when you're not even close to being funny at all & over 90% of your jokes are goofy as shit? then only real pearl jam fans. i mean really...
goofy ass bullshit comedy & supporting the attacking of cops or coming at cops with belligerence & a weapon & supporting those acting the fool in st. louis = real pearl jam fans
I've only watched the video on my phone and can't tell for sure whether he has a knife or not. Either way, it is not inconceivable that the police believed he had a knife. Either through mistaking what they saw or as a result of the robbery report, they could have believed a knife was present and part of the threat.
That is not to say their response was not overkill. Nor does it explain handcuffing a dead body.
Respect is earned, for all we know, this guy has been abused by law enforcement before, he may have a history.
But what seems clear is that he was out of his mind, mentally unstable, drugged up. We dont quite know yet,
Our police forces have a history of abuse, we know the stories, we know it happens.
I'll say it again, I really don't think it was necessary for the officer to fire his gun at that point in time.
So the officer that goes after robbers,killers, drunk drivers, risking his life everyday for your safety should take one for the team, placing his life in danger, so you feel better about a guy getting shot. Think be great for you to volunteer to ride with a police officer for few nights or BETTER YET you become a police officer and coddle criminals and violently insane humans.
Don't want to sound mean. Just put yourself in their shoes. Life sucks sometimes and sooooo glad some humans want to be police officers cause I sure as hell don't want to be one. Also know there are bad cops, been on receiving end three times and bad cops should be fired. But think it's too fucking easy to criticize sitting in safety of your home.
Am I turning into a conservative douche loosing my happy love everybody vibe. Oh shit.
I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I've only watched the video on my phone and can't tell for sure whether he has a knife or not. Either way, it is not inconceivable that the police believed he had a knife. Either through mistaking what they saw or as a result of the robbery report, they could have believed a knife was present and part of the threat.
That is not to say their response was not overkill. Nor does it explain handcuffing a dead body.
He had a knife clearly Visable on full screen. Cuffing is standard procedure and they do it just in case guys not dead and again goes after them. Seems brutal but it's for safety.
Comments
that cost the store less than $2.
i don't need deadly force/protection from that.
if the cops can't act reasonably, which lately none of them seem to be able to, then they need a desk job where they don't have to deal with the public.
as i said before. these cops are bullies, and in most cases the bully is the biggest coward, and the most scared.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
There will always be disagreements on how things should have been handled but it's hard to say what any of us would do unless we are in that same situation. In this situation the officers were dealing with someone who wasn’t right in the head, you don’t rob a store, wait outside for the cops to arrive and then scream at them to kill you as you approach them with a knife if you’re thinking correctly. Do they tase him and hope he goes down? Have we not all seen videos of people getting tased and it not affecting them? A probe could miss or not stick properly, or the person could be so full of drugs that it doesn’t even bother him. What happens if the cops decided to tase and it doesn’t take affect? By then there might not be enough time to draw your weapon before the man jumps you and then you're fighting for your life against a deranged person.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43751_Jim_Hofts_Unsourced_Claim_That_Officer_Darren_Wilson_Had_an_Orbital_Blowout_Fracture_of_the_Eye_Socket
There is a possibility that he was mentally incapacitated at the time, but if that we the case I think he still would have been trying to harm the cops.
the best way to tell if a ct scan is even indicated is if the patient is unable to move his eye to look up.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Try non lethal force first, and hopefully you will have enough time to go deadly as a last resort, and in this case, with the man clearly walking very slowly towards the officer, I see no need to go for the multiple shots to kill the man first method.
And this notion that because someone doesn't immediately obey what an office says, that gives the officer justification for killing. What nonsense,
2014, USA, and this is our best way to deal witha crazy(?) Person?
How sad.
that is overkill.
both officers unloaded on him.
how many times do you have to shoot a man when he is down??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
it is clear to me that they had no intention of taking him to the hospital.
they gave him a one way ticket to the afterlife.
bastards.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
We differ in mindset, that's fine.
I have no more to say on this.
And bootlegger10, I don't know if you are asking me about a cop shooting a gun but I would answer your question with yes. If a cop has to discharge his weapon, I would think that he (cop(s) are not in control of the situation. Why else would they have to shoot?
I think there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the posts on here.Story would change Im sure if you or your family was threatened and you needed these same cops to help you.
Crazy dude is approaching your 7 year old daughter,has a knife in hand,won't listen to repeated demands to disarm and hault.You want the cop to stop this crazy fuck or now is negotiating and taser the best way?if you said "taser"your fucking lying.You would want your family member safe no matter what.Please save my child!!!!!
Why does that law enforcement officers life not have the same value as the child?The perp already devalued his position by offering up a threat with a knife,and advancing.
so to be a real pearl jam fan one must be on the side of allowing riots, attacks on the cops by violent shits & so on. or try & be a comedian when you're not even close to being funny at all & over 90% of your jokes are goofy as shit? then only real pearl jam fans. i mean really...
goofy ass bullshit comedy & supporting the attacking of cops or coming at cops with belligerence & a weapon & supporting those acting the fool in st. louis = real pearl jam fans
makes sense
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
That is not to say their response was not overkill. Nor does it explain handcuffing a dead body.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Don't want to sound mean. Just put yourself in their shoes. Life sucks sometimes and sooooo glad some humans want to be police officers cause I sure as hell don't want to be one. Also know there are bad cops, been on receiving end three times and bad cops should be fired. But think it's too fucking easy to criticize sitting in safety of your home.
Am I turning into a conservative douche loosing my happy love everybody vibe. Oh shit.
Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.
I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.