Idf soldiers told to kill civilians •*graphic

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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    More IDF bravery and courage.

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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited August 2014
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    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,594
    rafie said:

    As a rule I don't usually post in these threads because I learned long ago that there is no point, but The stuff I have read here compels me to comment.

    Let me start off by saying that I am appalled by the deaths of any civilians during a military conflict (women, children, men, elderly... does not matter to me). Furthermore I am in favor of ending this conflict as soon as possible. Now to my point:
    I find it ridiculous how easily the anti Israel faction here jumps on any piece of unproven rumors attacking Israel dressed up as legitimate news while simultaneously state that anything that Israel says is lies and propaganda. Around 99% of the "groundbreaking journalistic scoops" here could easily be fabricated by any 10 year old with access to a computer. I am not saying it is all lies, but how about you wait for some hard proof before believing everything you read on the internet (Not even going to go in to the fact that one of the articles posted in this thread was from 10 years ago...). After all, it has been proven time and again that many of the pictures coming out of Gaza during this conflict have been fictitious (i.e. pics actually taken from the syrian conflict which is much more of a genocide than anything going on in Gaza, yet is mostly ignored). Again, not saying that everything that Israel puts out there is 100% true.
    Now as far as the general atmosphere in this thread, I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me. Forget about the blatant nonsense written by some members here over and over concerning the intentions of Hamas trying to depict them as some noble peaceful group, what truly bothers me is the hate. For a group of people concerned about putting a stop to military conflict, many of you are filled with hate. The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame. Both sides share the blame for this conflict and all others before it. To place the blame on only one side is not going to make anything better.

    Now I would like to specifically address Byrzine: You are without a doubt one of the most hate filled people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Each time I read one of your disgusting lies I cringe. To say (on the first page of this thread) that Hamas does not target civilians boils my blood. What exactly do you think that thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza are doing? I have seen you in recent days say that the antisemitism surging in Europe is understandable and even within reason (on the "imagine that, I am still anti war" thread). I have seen you say that the Hamas rockets are nothing more than fireworks. Last time I checked, fireworks do not send millions of civilians to bomb shelters, destroy homes, injure and kill.
    I am not really interested in having a debate with you because you will probably just throw links to articles you found online to make your point in hopes that I will get lost. I speak from experience as someone who actually lives here.
    I would gladly discuss the situation with any one else here who wants to. Shoot me a PM, I have no intention of becoming a public target for the usual crowd of hate mongers that lurk these threads.

    Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop. For now and forever. Be safe and be well. I hope to see you back on the boards soon.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JimmyV said:

    Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.

    Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?

    And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?

    Are you o.k with all of those?

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,283
    fucking bully.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,594
    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.

    Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?

    And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?

    Are you o.k with all of those?

    To start I want the shooting to stop, yes. I also want the occupation to end. At the moment though the bombs are the most pressing issue.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.

    Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?

    And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?

    Are you o.k with all of those?

    Byrnzie, calm down. The first thing that has to happen before anything else is that the shooting has to stop. The daily attacks, the occupation, the illegal settlement construction. He's wishing a person well before going to war. Regardless of the side. Nothing can be done while the shooting continues. Most of us agree that the Israelis are committing haneous acts and have illegally occupied Gaza for decades. You want to argue with every statement written here, weather they agree with you or not. We all get it.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/02/netanyahu-warns-us-israel-gaza-ceasefire-second-guess

    Netanyahu warns US not to try to force Israel into a Gaza ceasefire

    • Israel PM tells US ‘not to ever second-guess me again’
    • US and UN called naive over failed ceasefire with Hamas


    Associated Press in Washington
    theguardian.com, Saturday 2 August 2014 18.14 BST


    Following the quick collapse of the ceasefire in Gaza, the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, told the White House not to force a truce with Palestinian militants.

    Sources familiar with conversations between Netanyahu and senior US officials, including the secretary of state, John Kerry, say the Israeli leader advised the Obama administration “not to ever second-guess me again” on the matter. The officials also said Netanyahu said he should be “trusted” on the issue and about the unwillingness of Hamas to enter into and follow through on ceasefire talks.

    The Obama administration on Friday condemned “outrageous” violations of an internationally brokered Gaza ceasefire by Palestinian militants and called the apparent capture of an Israeli soldier a “barbaric” action.

    The strong reaction came as top Israeli officials questioned the effort to forge the truce, accusing the US and the United Nations of being naive in assuming Hamas would adhere to its terms. The officials also blamed the Gulf state of Qatar for not forcing the militants to comply.

    With the ceasefire in tatters less than two hours after it took effect, with an attack that killed two Israeli troops and left a third missing, President Barack Obama demanded that those responsible release the soldier.

    Obama and other US officials did not directly blame Hamas for the abduction. But they made clear they hold Hamas responsible for, or having influence over, the actions of all factions in the Gaza Strip. The language was a distinct change from Thursday, when Washington was focused on the deaths of Palestinian civilians.

    “If they are serious about trying to resolve this situation, that soldier needs to be unconditionally released as soon as possible,” Obama told reporters. He added that it would be difficult to revive the ceasefire without the captive’s release.

    “It’s going to be very hard to put a ceasefire back together again if Israelis and the international community can’t feel confident that Hamas can follow through on a ceasefire commitment,” he said. His comment reflected uncertainty in the US and elsewhere that Hamas was actually responsible for the incident or if some other militant group was to blame.

    At the same time, Obama called the situation in Gaza “heartbreaking” and repeated calls for Israel to do more to prevent Palestinian civilian casualties.

    Despite the collapse of the truce, Obama credited Kerry for his work with the United Nations to forge one. He lamented criticism and “nitpicking” of Kerry’s attempts and said the effort would continue.

    Kerry negotiated the truce with the UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, in a marathon session of phone calls over several days while he was in India on an official visit. Kerry had spent much of the past two weeks in Egypt, Israel, the West Bank and France trying to mediate a ceasefire, with Qatar and Turkey playing a major role because of their close ties with Hamas.

    Those efforts failed with Israel saying it could not trust Hamas and some Israelis and American pro-Israel groups complaining that the US was treating the group – a foreign terrorist organisation as designated by the State Department – as a friend. Late on Thursday, however, Israel accepted Kerry and Ban’s latest proposal, despite its reservations. Once the truce was violated, though, Israeli officials hit out at not only Hamas, but the US and Qatar for its failure.

    An Israeli official said the Netanyahu government viewed both Hamas and Qatar as having violated the commitment given to the US and the UN and that it expected the international community to take practical steps as part of a “strong and swift response”, especially regarding the return of the abducted soldier.

    In a phone call with US ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro, Netanyahu vented his anger, according to people familiar with the call.

    Netanyahu told Shapiro the Obama administration was “not to ever second-guess me again” and that Washington should trust his judgment on how to deal with Hamas, according to the people. Netanyahu added that he now “expected” the US and other countries to fully support Israel’s offensive in Gaza, according to those familiar with the call. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorised to discuss the matter by name.

    They said Netanyahu made similar points to Kerry, who himself denounced the attack as “outrageous,” saying it was an affront to assurances to respect the ceasefire given to the United States and United Nations, which brokered the truce.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    fuck said:

    The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.

    Dude….hes wishing a fellow PJ fan on these boards to stay safe.Nothing more, nothing less.Us stupid Americans do shit like that!!
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,594
    I wished a fellow member of this club, this club that we are all connected by and that transcends national, ethnic and religious bounds, well after that member was drafted into military service. I make ZERO apologies for that.

    Attacking each other here accomplishes nothing and benefits the poor people of Gaza not at all.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Last-12-Exit said:

    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.

    Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?

    And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?

    Are you o.k with all of those?

    Byrnzie, calm down. The first thing that has to happen before anything else is that the shooting has to stop. The daily attacks, the occupation, the illegal settlement construction. He's wishing a person well before going to war. Regardless of the side. Nothing can be done while the shooting continues. Most of us agree that the Israelis are committing haneous acts and have illegally occupied Gaza for decades. You want to argue with every statement written here, weather they agree with you or not. We all get it.
    I was simply going by what he said. Sure, the shooting needs to stop, but not so we can see a return to the status quo.

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    JimmyV said:

    I wished a fellow member of this club, this club that we are all connected by and that transcends national, ethnic and religious bounds, well after that member was drafted into military service. I make ZERO apologies for that.

    Attacking each other here accomplishes nothing and benefits the poor people of Gaza not at all.

    Thanks, I was going to say something similar (still early here and the coffee has yet to kick in), so I'll piggyback on this instead.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.

    Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?

    And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?

    Are you o.k with all of those?

    HE already told you he was not ok with innocent lives lost.Hes not a fucking politician.Shit Byrnzie,maybe the dude is scared about going to war,maybe not for just his own safety,but for what comes along with being a soldier,what you see,do,witness.no matter what the cause its fucking horrible.
    I would wish a palestinian who is riding this out well wishes,just as i would Raffie.You guys are getting shitty.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    But isn't Raffie going to be part of the problem? I think that is a fair question to ask, and I do think it takes more balls not to go.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    rr165892 said:

    fuck said:

    The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.

    Dude….hes wishing a fellow PJ fan on these boards to stay safe.Nothing more, nothing less.Us stupid Americans do shit like that!!
    I've gotten like three responses to what I wrote, the above being the first, and not one person actually responded to what I said. Americans, and I'm American so I'm speaking based off what I witnessed, seem to abide by this culture where it's possible to be anti-war without shouldering any of the responsibility, and blame for that matter, on the soldiers themselves. It's all the fault of "The Man" who "makes" these "poor soldiers" go to war. What a joke.
    A massacre is taking place on your television sets, and when a man walks in to tell you that he's about to go participate in it, you all say "be well", while claiming to desire peace and an end to the massacre. If this isn't cognitive dissonance then I don't know what is.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    fuck said:

    The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.

    Such an ignorant thing to say. I love how people around the think we are such morons.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Last-12-Exit said:

    fuck said:

    The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.

    Such an ignorant thing to say. I love how people around the think we are such morons.
    How is that ignorant?

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    fuck said:

    rr165892 said:

    fuck said:

    The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.

    Dude….hes wishing a fellow PJ fan on these boards to stay safe.Nothing more, nothing less.Us stupid Americans do shit like that!!
    I've gotten like three responses to what I wrote, the above being the first, and not one person actually responded to what I said. Americans, and I'm American so I'm speaking based off what I witnessed, seem to abide by this culture where it's possible to be anti-war without shouldering any of the responsibility, and blame for that matter, on the soldiers themselves. It's all the fault of "The Man" who "makes" these "poor soldiers" go to war. What a joke.
    A massacre is taking place on your television sets, and when a man walks in to tell you that he's about to go participate in it, you all say "be well", while claiming to desire peace and an end to the massacre. If this isn't cognitive dissonance then I don't know what is.
    I don't "claim" to desire peace, I do desire peace.

    Do you not wish him well? And what happens if he refuses to serve?

    Look, I can respect how adamant you are and your willingness to share your side, but I have no need to justify or defend my hope that someone about to face a shitstorm keeps safe.

    It's a human thing.

  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Wishing somebody well before he goes to war and hoping he doesn't get killed is a far cry from supporting somebody going off to murder. The ignorant part is comparing the two and saying Americans are supporting the murderous actions of Isreal by wishing an Israeli soldier well before he goes off to mandatory service. Wheather or not you share the same beliefs as whoever the hell it is that is going to serve in the Israeli army Monday, one shouldn't be chastised for hoping he doesn't die. Hopefully he will have the common sense not to murder innocent civilians in this war. If he does, shame on him and i would.hope he is convicted of war crimes. That still doesn't mean I can't hope he comes back alive.

    What would happen to an American that was supposed to report for duty knowing he/she was going to Iraq or Afghanistan and refused? They would be court marshalled and be labelled a traitor.

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