Gods and killing...

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  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    ^^^ I'm envious of the world you live in, Aafke- a place where rarely do people walk around with guns a place where non-violence is more the norm. My heart aches to be somewhere like that.

    It'd be nice for sure but here, just not realistic.

    Aafke - I don't live in fear of violence, by the way. But should it find me, I can't see passively responding to an attack.
    Hedonist,never in fear ,but vigilant and not naive about what potentially could be issues,yeah?
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    edited July 2014
    rr165892 said:

    brianlux said:

    ^^^ I'm envious of the world you live in, Aafke- a place where rarely do people walk around with guns a place where non-violence is more the norm. My heart aches to be somewhere like that.

    Uh Isnt pot also legal??
    That's a difficult one... It's not legal to sell... but it's legal to smoke... They call it a "gedoogbeleid", which translated means something like "policy of tolerance", which means, somewhere between legal and illegal. But the think of more restrictions every day, not selling to tourists is one of the proposals, because of the drugs tourism, Less places in town to sell, etc, etc.

    I think it's stupid to do it in this half way manner. The producers are still criminals, and cost the state a lot of many and police time. Also the amount of THC in the pot is so high at the moment that you count question the term soft drug. If it was legal, the state could, ban out the criminals, and take over the business, Earning money on the dope instead of spending money on it, and at the same time, control the amount of THC and keep it safe for users...

    But the state is afraid for repercussions of the surrounding counties so they stay with this, lame law...
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    Hedonist I don;t say any of you is walking around paranoid of fear, it's just my observation, that most of you go into fight mode as soon as is suggested that you are under attack. Most of us don't have that reaction as quickly as you, we just react differently, we don't act passively on every attack but maybe more pacifically, as I stated before, we are more likely to use words than fists...
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    rr165892 said:

    brianlux said:

    ^^^ I'm envious of the world you live in, Aafke- a place where rarely do people walk around with guns a place where non-violence is more the norm. My heart aches to be somewhere like that.

    Uh Isnt pot also legal??
    Yeah, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good things about this country but it sure feels like the ground keeps getting shakier and I don't feel like this country is as safe a place as it once was. I wish and hope I was/am wrong about that. Thirty, forty years ago very few people walked around packing heat, only law enforcement people carried pepper spray (it used to be called "mace"), women were more free to walk to there car at night, kids could play out on the street and the term "road rage" had not entered our vocabulary.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Aafke said:

    Hedonist I don;t say any of you is walking around paranoid of fear, it's just my observation, that most of you go into fight mode as soon as is suggested that you are under attack. Most of us don't have that reaction as quickly as you, we just react differently, we don't act passively on every attack but maybe more pacifically, as I stated before, we are more likely to use words than fists...

    Not suggested I'm under attack but actually under attack. I'm aware of my surroundings and the people around me. Common sense and instinct.

    Eyes being open is in no way tantamount to having a hard heart or being aggressive (though sometimes certain situations call for it; may I rise to that occasion should it ever happen).

    Also, speaking of pot - nice little aside. Went to my local MM dispensary after work (TRYING, to no avail, to avoid the Obama trafficblocks - he's staying literally next door to where we live). So I get rung up, the total seems too low and I say so. Miscalculation on their part, and I got a free J for my honesty. Kinda sad that honesty is so rare to be rewarded, but hell - wasn't gonna refuse :D

    Lastly, I really appreciate how respectful such a passionate and potentially-heated subject has gone. Always other roads for debate can be taken, and I'm glad this one isn't a war of words and thoughts.
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    edited July 2014
    Just jet found this article about the differences between the US and Dutch societies. Dutch society has had for ages one ground rule:
    Live and Let live
    Wilders tries to ruin this, but as stated in the article when tragedy strikes, differences disappear, and we become one, we mourn together without making much fuss out of it...

    http://time.com/3025307/malaysia-flight-17-netherlands-dutch-mourning/
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Aafke,This clip is for you.It ties into what you were saying before.Its classic and what comes to mind when talking about drugs in Amsterdam.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p_rMSFT4uUI
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    Well, lets get back on topic, Gods and Killing...
    Does anyone has a reasonable answer for this question off a God...?
    image
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Maybe because...they're extremists?

    Honestly, it's a silly question from a sillier "account".
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    Yes, I know, it;s a silly account, but the question: If all religions advocate peace, Why do the ones who claim to be true believers, all fight, the most horrific wars in the name off their Gods, is a valid one in my opinion. Are extremist no matter what religion they have, who fight wars, true believers if the religion advocates peace?
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    I'm not in their heads (thankfully), but they're the fringe - the few. Guess they've lost sight of what their religion is supposed to be about.

    Then there are those who practice peacefully but are willing to fight to protect that right.
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    I also think it has something to do with setting boundaries between religions which have grown out of the same roots. By focusing on the differences, the founders where able to separate themselves from the main religion. Accept when they became a formal religion, they still focused on the differences, and all three religions claim to have the one true God,

    Sure, everyone has the right to belief what he or she feels most related to, but being part of one religion does make you in the eyes of that religion, better than other humans from a different belief system, maybe it's human to focus on the differences, give everything a specific value...

    But I think this is the reason why I don't like organised religions at all...
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Well, I can see how some think and live that way if that's all they know, or choose to know. By the same token, I also know the environment in which I was raised never espoused superiority. The opposite, in fact - in humility, open-mindedness, and the ability to accept when wrong (and hopefully learn from it). How life is a path to be found and explored, but never imposed.

    The thing with extremists is they get face-time. They're the ones we hear about and shake our collective heads at their actions and hate and insistence others see and live life exactly as they deem. Most reasonable people reject that.

    There are so many more who go about their business, who are charitable, polite, hard-working...those who live by the tenets of their religion but not frothing over them...understanding, accepting, their fallibility and trying to become better parents, friends, sisters, etc., without pointing fingers or damning their neighbors to hell.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    It provides those who need it a sense of community.A place to go to be around like minded people who share similar views of the world and their place in it.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Aafke said:

    Yes, I know, it;s a silly account, but the question: If all religions advocate peace, Why do the ones who claim to be true believers, all fight, the most horrific wars in the name off their Gods, is a valid one in my opinion. Are extremist no matter what religion they have, who fight wars, true believers if the religion advocates peace?

    Get what your saying. Think religions aren't though about peace. They're about recruiting as any members to become the dominant religion. And add the threats if one doesn't conform and not much peace. Sad.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    It's too bad, the painting of religions (and by proxy, those who practice) as devious and indoctrinators.

    I've met, even know, some people who think all Muslims are controlling, evil. Those who think Latinos are typically lazy...that black people are violent, out for themselves.

    No different than the closed mindsets attached to religion...strikes me as prejudice as well.

    I don't know...I just wish those who harbor those views could separate the decent from the assholes like Westboro. Seems that luxury is afforded to most groups, why not to Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc.?

  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    I know a lot of open-minded Jews, Christians and Muslims in my family and friends, I know not every religious person, is a power lusted maniac. and many of the ones with no religious belief at all are. But what I see happening in my society is that very open-minded friends of mine, with different religious backgrounds, are at each others throats all of a sudden, about the conflict in Gaza, people who before the outburst of publicity about this war, where good friends... The religions are polarizing this war. and that scares me...

    Personally, I don't believe in any God, because I strongly object against authority. Dictatorships don't work on earth, and men are created in the likeness of God, why would it work in Heaven? Besides every human has some good and some bad in them, and no human is pure good or evil, so why would any human get an eternal punishment or eternal peace? But these are my personal ideas, It doesn't mean at all that those who believe in waht ever religion are less in my opinion, just different, in there religious views...

    Live and let live...
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    hedonist said:

    It's too bad, the painting of religions (and by proxy, those who practice) as devious and indoctrinators.

    I've met, even know, some people who think all Muslims are controlling, evil. Those who think Latinos are typically lazy...that black people are violent, out for themselves.

    No different than the closed mindsets attached to religion...strikes me as prejudice as well.

    I don't know...I just wish those who harbor those views could separate the decent from the assholes like Westboro. Seems that luxury is afforded to most groups, why not to Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc.?

    And acknowledge there is good in religion and most members that are peaceful. It's though the goal of religions to convert and plays on humans need of security.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    edited August 2014
    callen said:

    hedonist said:



    And acknowledge there is good in religion and most members that are peaceful. It's though the goal of religions to convert and plays on humans need of security.
    I think, maybe hope, that once the goal of religions was to give people comfort and release, and a sense of community! I think that can be a great gift .. If that's what it provides to you, I'm happy for you, as long as the members are peaceful.... But most religions, or at least some members of these religions, use their religion to feel better about themselves and to look down on humans with a different belief system.

    Why do humans have the tendency to focus on the differences between people and proclaim them unequal in value? Why can't we just focus on the things we have in common? Or is just the need to separate the sign of humanity we all have in common? Can we only be part of a community if there is a common opponent?
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    Aafke said:

    callen said:

    hedonist said:



    And acknowledge there is good in religion and most members that are peaceful. It's though the goal of religions to convert and plays on humans need of security.
    I think, maybe hope, that once the goal of religions was to give people comfort and release, and a sense of community! I think that can be a great gift .. If that's what it provides to you, I'm happy for you, as long as the members are peaceful.... But most religions, or at least some members of these religions, use their religion to feel better about themselves and to look down on humans with a different belief system.

    Why do humans have the tendency to focus on the differences between people and proclaim them unequal in value? Why can't we just focus on the things we have in common? Or is just the need to separate the sign of humanity we all have in common? Can we only be part of a community if there is a common opponent?
    I can't find it now, but I remember reading something Annie Dillard once wrote about moving to a small community where she found it important and valuable to be a part of that community so she started attending a church there not for religious purposes but for the purpose of being a part of helping promote the concept of community. When I read that I thought seriously about doing the same only my past experiences of church going always got in the way. That may be unfortunate, I'm really not sure. Maybe this is church for me.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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