minimum wage (part II)

12357…10

Comments

  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Why, so employers can pay below minimum wage? Is that what you want, to really stick it to people? Because people are already paid below, someone posted a link some pages back, I'll have to find it. Or is it because we should not be taking care of workers at all, "they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps" mentality? I bet you're a Lib.

    Really?[/quote]

    Is that how you answer all of those questions?
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    also i am sick & tired of seeing & reading & hearing about how in today's day & age one does job searches online. horseshit. face to face is the only way i will ever, ever conduct my job searching tasks, thank you very much. old fucking school through & through. who the frig fills out bullshit forms online when applying to truck shit up to alaska or be a fucking captain on a cargo ship? frickin stupid. i love the internet but when it comes to jobs face to face. travel your happy ass from denver to god damn miami if you want the job selling whatever they sell in miami.

    i see a sign on the supermarket i shop reading, apply online... fuck you!
    walk in the door & ask someone to speak with the manager. when face to face w/ the store manager you ask for a job application because you are intrested in working at this store. blah blah blah & basically you just need a fucking job
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    The Hardest Working Countries In The World

    "Everyone likes to think they work harder than everyone else, but the latest OECD data may surprise some Europeans and Americans who expected to be at the top of the world's hard work list.

    The latest data from the OECD sheds light on not just paid work, but also unpaid work such as cooking and other housework.

    Notable absentees from the top 14 include Germany, France, and the UK. All of the countries listed have a work day longer than the OECD average.

    Note: This list only considers OECD countries. Data released April 12, 2011."



    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-hard ... 011-4?op=1

    Oops... USA not no. 1... :oops:
    I wasn't really falling for it but it sounded nice...
    I say far out! then for Mexico... no surprise there, respectfully.
    My encounters with Latinos they get the job done!
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    redrock wrote:
    The Hardest Working Countries In The World

    "Everyone likes to think they work harder than everyone else, but the latest OECD data may surprise some Europeans and Americans who expected to be at the top of the world's hard work list.

    The latest data from the OECD sheds light on not just paid work, but also unpaid work such as cooking and other housework.

    Notable absentees from the top 14 include Germany, France, and the UK. All of the countries listed have a work day longer than the OECD average.

    Note: This list only considers OECD countries. Data released April 12, 2011."



    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-hard ... 011-4?op=1

    Oops... USA not no. 1... :oops:

    It's interesting to compare the minutes paid and the minutes unpaid. Canada gets more minutes of paid work than the U.S.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    pandora wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Yup. Still have yet to read the rest of this thread, but I know the time I spent with my father at the hospice three days before he died had NOTHING to do with work, but of the life he lived and the kind of man and father he was. A fucking good one at that.

    Pandora, I don't get your comment about those fathers who've passed were not hardworking nor good examples. If you've clarified or corrected this subsequent to your post up there, then my apologies.
    My father is remembered by the world for the work he did. I remember him for his heart.
    Unfortunately there are fathers who fail not only those who love them but life itself.
    That's wonderful about your father. I was talking about your earlier comment, though, which doesn't make sense to me:

    Many of our kids friend's fathers have passed. Those who have
    were not hard working nor good examples for their young men

    (you don't need to further explain, by the way; just wanted to clarify on my end)
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    chadwick wrote:
    also i am sick & tired of seeing & reading & hearing about how in today's day & age one does job searches online. horseshit. face to face is the only way i will ever, ever conduct my job searching tasks, thank you very much. old fucking school through & through. who the frig fills out bullshit forms online when applying to truck shit up to alaska or be a fucking captain on a cargo ship? frickin stupid. i love the internet but when it comes to jobs face to face. travel your happy ass from denver to god damn miami if you want the job selling whatever they sell in miami.

    i see a sign on the supermarket i shop reading, apply online... fuck you!
    walk in the door & ask someone to speak with the manager. when face to face w/ the store manager you ask for a job application because you are intrested in working at this store. blah blah blah & basically you just need a fucking job
    I agree about face to face - nothing like it - but the initial foot-in-the-door sometimes does come from online searches and communication. Employment agencies, for example, or people you've previously worked with.

    Also depends on the industry in which you're working.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Why, so employers can pay below minimum wage? Is that what you want, to really stick it to people? Because people are already paid below, someone posted a link some pages back, I'll have to find it. Or is it because we should not be taking care of workers at all, "they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps" mentality? I bet you're a Lib.

    Really?

    Is that how you answer all of those questions?[/quote]

    I think I've posted in the first thread that if you do not have the skills to get a job that pays higher than minimum wage why should the company pay you higher than minimum wage? In turn, why should the government force companies to pay unskilled workers more and get the same if not less out of them?

    Its not a matter of sticking it to the poor. If you worked at Mcdonalds at $7.50/hour for 38 hours a week and the government forced them to pay you $10.13/hour, do you think you will continue to work 38 hours a week? No. So did the raise help you now that your only working 28 hours a week?
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    pandora wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Yup. Still have yet to read the rest of this thread, but I know the time I spent with my father at the hospice three days before he died had NOTHING to do with work, but of the life he lived and the kind of man and father he was. A fucking good one at that.

    Pandora, I don't get your comment about those fathers who've passed were not hardworking nor good examples. If you've clarified or corrected this subsequent to your post up there, then my apologies.
    My father is remembered by the world for the work he did. I remember him for his heart.
    Unfortunately there are fathers who fail not only those who love them but life itself.

    Ah, to be remembered for working all the time rather than being a good human being, or a good friend, or a good father to his family, or for doing good in one's community. The last thing I would want anyone to be remembered for was being a "hard worker". There's so much more to life than work, but many people are fooled...
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Why, so employers can pay below minimum wage? Is that what you want, to really stick it to people? Because people are already paid below, someone posted a link some pages back, I'll have to find it. Or is it because we should not be taking care of workers at all, "they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps" mentality? I bet you're a Lib.

    Really?

    Is that how you answer all of those questions?

    I think I've posted in the first thread that if you do not have the skills to get a job that pays higher than minimum wage why should the company pay you higher than minimum wage? In turn, why should the government force companies to pay unskilled workers more and get the same if not less out of them?

    Its not a matter of sticking it to the poor. If you worked at Mcdonalds at $7.50/hour for 38 hours a week and the government forced them to pay you $10.13/hour, do you think you will continue to work 38 hours a week? No. So did the raise help you now that your only working 28 hours a week?[/quote]

    You clearly stated that there should be NO mandated wages. Therefore, unless you explain otherwise, you are against people being paid even minimum wage.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Jeanwah wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Yup. Still have yet to read the rest of this thread, but I know the time I spent with my father at the hospice three days before he died had NOTHING to do with work, but of the life he lived and the kind of man and father he was. A fucking good one at that.

    Pandora, I don't get your comment about those fathers who've passed were not hardworking nor good examples. If you've clarified or corrected this subsequent to your post up there, then my apologies.
    My father is remembered by the world for the work he did. I remember him for his heart.
    Unfortunately there are fathers who fail not only those who love them but life itself.

    Ah, to be remembered for working all the time rather than being a good human being, or a good friend, or a good father to his family, or for doing good in one's community. The last thing I would want anyone to be remembered for was being a "hard worker". There's so much more to life than work, but many people are fooled...

    Seriously? Being a hard dedicated worker isnt a good quality or legacy to leave behind? Being a good worker goes hand in hand with being a good person. IMO
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    hedonist wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    also i am sick & tired of seeing & reading & hearing about how in today's day & age one does job searches online. horseshit. face to face is the only way i will ever, ever conduct my job searching tasks, thank you very much. old fucking school through & through. who the frig fills out bullshit forms online when applying to truck shit up to alaska or be a fucking captain on a cargo ship? frickin stupid. i love the internet but when it comes to jobs face to face. travel your happy ass from denver to god damn miami if you want the job selling whatever they sell in miami.

    i see a sign on the supermarket i shop reading, apply online... fuck you!
    walk in the door & ask someone to speak with the manager. when face to face w/ the store manager you ask for a job application because you are intrested in working at this store. blah blah blah & basically you just need a fucking job
    I agree about face to face - nothing like it - but the initial foot-in-the-door sometimes does come from online searches and communication. Employment agencies, for example, or people you've previously worked with.

    Also depends on the industry in which you're working.
    true true true & true true true
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Jeanwah wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Yup. Still have yet to read the rest of this thread, but I know the time I spent with my father at the hospice three days before he died had NOTHING to do with work, but of the life he lived and the kind of man and father he was. A fucking good one at that.

    Pandora, I don't get your comment about those fathers who've passed were not hardworking nor good examples. If you've clarified or corrected this subsequent to your post up there, then my apologies.
    My father is remembered by the world for the work he did. I remember him for his heart.
    Unfortunately there are fathers who fail not only those who love them but life itself.

    Ah, to be remembered for working all the time rather than being a good human being, or a good friend, or a good father to his family, or for doing good in one's community. The last thing I would want anyone to be remembered for was being a "hard worker". There's so much more to life than work, but many people are fooled...
    Why must it be one or the other? good lord the negativity abounds.
    So you are saying one can not be a hard worker, remembered for their accomplishments and also be a good human being, friend, good father and much more...
    you must see that is incorrect.

    My father was an inventor remembered for his accomplishments and all of the above!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    hedonist wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Yup. Still have yet to read the rest of this thread, but I know the time I spent with my father at the hospice three days before he died had NOTHING to do with work, but of the life he lived and the kind of man and father he was. A fucking good one at that.

    Pandora, I don't get your comment about those fathers who've passed were not hardworking nor good examples. If you've clarified or corrected this subsequent to your post up there, then my apologies.
    My father is remembered by the world for the work he did. I remember him for his heart.
    Unfortunately there are fathers who fail not only those who love them but life itself.
    That's wonderful about your father. I was talking about your earlier comment, though, which doesn't make sense to me:

    Many of our kids friend's fathers have passed. Those who have
    were not hard working nor good examples for their young men

    (you don't need to further explain, by the way; just wanted to clarify on my end)
    yes the disappointment of failing loved ones and life itself speaks for itself
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited March 2013
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Ah, to be remembered for working all the time rather than being a good human being, or a good friend, or a good father to his family, or for doing good in one's community. The last thing I would want anyone to be remembered for was being a "hard worker". There's so much more to life than work, but many people are fooled...
    this is true in many ways. we are fooled a lot in this country.

    i know a steel worker who erects buildings in mystery city. like the trucking industry he is pushed (when working, he is laid off a lot) to work unreal hours. is that safe? 150 feet off the ground and he's been walking around on I-beams the last 12 hours doing his thing. they be having a deadline & shit.

    i gotta tell ya how he got hired. zero experience for starters. walked up to a steel worker dude & said do you folks need help im looking for work? the man says, "do you drink beer & smoke marijuana? my dude says, "fuckin-A i do" the steel worker says, "see that guy in the blue shirt go talk to him"

    "hey man im looking for work up here" steel worker boss dude says, "you be here tomorrow & on every friday you buy the beer & we'll get high up here"

    since then he's been erecting building high as fuck
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I am not against companies paying a minimum wage. I am against the government telling the companies what that number should be.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    I am not against companies paying a minimum wage. I am against the government telling the companies what that number should be.

    With no minimum standard... this sets up for abuse. If the government has any role in the dealings of a country... this is an area.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • South of Seattle
    South of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,724
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    I am not against companies paying a minimum wage. I am against the government telling the companies what that number should be.

    With no minimum standard... this sets up for abuse. If the government has any role in the dealings of a country... this is an area.
    I don't think it sets it up for abuse. If employers do abuse it, the qualified worker will find a new job. The market will correct itself.
    NERDS!
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    I am not against companies paying a minimum wage. I am against the government telling the companies what that number should be.

    With no minimum standard... this sets up for abuse. If the government has any role in the dealings of a country... this is an area.


    Economist Walter Williams said "It is important to note that most people acquire work skills by working at “subnormal wages” which amounts to the same thing as paying to learn. For example, inexperienced doctors (interns), during their training, work at wages which are a tiny fraction of that of trained doctors. College students forego considerable amounts of money in the form of tuition and foregone income so that they may develop marketable skills. It is ironic, if not tragic, that low skilled youths from poor families are denied an opportunity to get a start in life. This is exactly what happens when a high minimum wage forbids low skilled workers to pay for job training in the form of a lower beginning wage."

    People must have the right to offer their services in the marketplace for whatever price they choose, whether they are workers serving employers or businesses serving consumers. It is by this process that productivity, wage rates, and prosperity are maximized. Government has no more business objecting to a low wage rate for a menial job than it has objecting to a business that offers its services or products for a low price. Government intervention in these matters distorts economic decision-making
  • MotoDC
    MotoDC Posts: 947
    redrock wrote:
    I work 32.5hrs a week, have 33 days/year paid holidays/bank holidays, a further 10 days/year unpaid... And I enjoy all my time off - don't feel the need to go into work on days off. I must be a little weakling! :lol:

    Oh.. forgot... I earn a decent salary, have decent benefits, a nice pension pot, etc....
    Vive le france!

    ;) jk I have no idea where you live.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Suppose you run a small business and have to pay a minimum wage. Three people apply for a job opening a Black, a Hispanic, and a White. Now, you must pay all of them the same wage, at the point of a government gun stuck in your ribs. Which one of them will you hire?
    Anyone would hire the most desirable one. The one where you get the most for the money you are spending. Typically, all things being equal, you will choose to hire first the White, then the Hispanic, lastly the Black.
    Notice, Black has no effective way to fight for the job. He cannot, under the various Federal and State laws, including the minimum wage law, that relate to workers, say:
    "Look sir, I am Black and I know you might rather hire a White or Hispanic, but I am a good worker and want a chance to prove myself, therefore, in order to get you to give me this job, I will work for a dollar less per hour, and put in unpaid overtime to help the business, and myself, because I know that once you get used to my good work, you will value me more, and that in order to keep me you will pay me more in due time, until I will make what the others make in order to keep a good worker like me. This will get me started, and I will get good experience here and be able to move on up, even if you don’t want to pay more to keep me, someone else will.”
    This transaction, where the minority workers can realistically compete to get a piece of the pie, is totally illegal by federal and most state law, enforced at gunpoint.
    These minimum wage, and other workplace laws are, in effect, discriminatory against all sorts of minority workers including women, hispanics, catholics, jews, persons with disabilities, and just about anyone other than the cream of the crop, most prefered, workers.
    These laws totally benefit the fair haired boys, and girls, at the expense of everyone else. It hurts the Black worker in partiticular and protects his already favored White worker competitors.
    By FounderChurch
This discussion has been closed.

Categories