minimum wage (part II)

pandora · March 2013

hedonist wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I am so sick and tired of people thinking that because you focus on the economics of a situation you don't care about people.

Kinda tired of this as well - too many assumptions.

economics is the science behind the why's how's what's ... I love hearing about it...
keep it coming those who are educated in the workings of our country.

hedonist · March 2013

pandora wrote:

To me people like this are impressive people most especially because of the positivity
that is in them. unsung's words so inspiring, positive amidst personal trials ...
working very hard towards personal goals.
I guess what it comes down to is the type of people one really admires this is who we find
impressive. For me it is those who strive, attain and live with positivity effecting all those around
them in a positive way.

Not to discount unsung, but those qualities aren't exclusive to people working almost double a standard weekly shift.

Wonderful traits, but those kind of hours DO take a toll. And at what/whose expense?

pandora · March 2013

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

To me people like this are impressive people most especially because of the positivity
that is in them. unsung's words so inspiring, positive amidst personal trials ...
working very hard towards personal goals.
I guess what it comes down to is the type of people one really admires this is who we find
impressive. For me it is those who strive, attain and live with positivity effecting all those around
them in a positive way.

Not to discount unsung, but those qualities aren't exclusive to people working almost double a standard weekly shift.

Wonderful traits, but those kind of hours DO take a toll. And at what/whose expense?

They do not necessarily take a toll anymore than negativity, living lazy, or without goals.
I think in a generalization hard working people are in much better shape mentally,
physically and spiritually then their counterparts.
It has to do with feeling good about yourself. Hard work does just this. Positive outlook makes all
the difference in health.

We are approaching 60. Many of our kids friend's fathers have passed. Those who have
were not hard working nor good examples for their young men. Life styles and outlook on life
is the key, the human body can take hard work, it needs hard work. But most importantly
the body needs a mind and heart that is positive. It needs to be surrounded by others with the
same.

riotgrl · March 2013

pandora wrote:

fife wrote:

pandora wrote:

but you might be impressed

actually I would not. in my line of work, you need to take care of yourself and working that many hours tells me a couple of things. you have poor time management, you have some attachment issues that are not good or you are too afraid that you will be fired if you don't work that much or finally, you have a hard time in your non-profession life.

or you just like to work ... just plain and simple high goals, hard working, enjoy work.
Funny how all your reasons are negative :? is this what they teach in people management?

My husband was raised by small business owners. He learned to work hard for the family.
To set his goals high for the businesses they owned. To be loyal, dedicated, trustworthy.
He learned to work side by side, team player for the good of all. These are great traits.
They are unselfish traits. He went on to build a successful business in his own field
and pass all those traits onto our children, who's futures are bright.

To me people like this are impressive people most especially because of the positivity
that is in them. unsung's words so inspiring, positive amidst personal trials ...
working very hard towards personal goals.
I guess what it comes down to is the type of people one really admires this is who we find
impressive. For me it is those who strive, attain and live with positivity effecting all those around
them in a positive way.

I agree that these traits you mention are positives and that it is what we want small (and large business) owners to be. However, I took the working long hours to be a negative because I do not believe that we should forgo other pleasures for the sake of work een when we enjoy said work. Forgoing time at home with family and friends or just relaxing and enjoying nature or reading a book or just having some downtime, allow us to recharge and maintain a good work/life balance. I think Americans, in particular, spend a great deal of time working in order to be successful within our given economic structure. I understand that many people think that our current work hard, earn as much as possible is the best system but I think there must be a third way to achieve a better economic balance. There are inherent problems within both socialism and capitalism and instead of touting the benefits of those two structures, I wonder if it is possible to discuss a third option that combines the merits of each. Just a thought, not very precise or elaborate but it is something that I have wondered about.

Last-12-Exit · March 2013

Sounds to me like some people want to crawl out of the poor house but don't want to work for it. Unless you've hit the powerball jackpot, you have to work long hours at times. And yes, those times may be months of 60-72 hour work weeks. You can't have ot both ways.

chadwick · March 2013

i've noticed some of the members here are out of touch folks. do you people (not all of you mind you) truly know tough ass times? no you don't. hell most of us here do not know a single thing about truly being a broke ass bastard. we whine, we cry, we snivel because prices are growing higher, blah blah blah. gas is expensive, bread's gone up, bottled god damn water is through the ceiling, clothes is god damn expensive, ever buy a car these days? it's crazy, right?

how about wearing rags awhile, hmm? how about drinking nasty ass river water awhile & washing your ass & your clothes in the fucker next to others doing the same thing. the united states of america is a spoiled ass country. here a lot of us can't even erect a clothesline because it offends our neighbors who run down the road in their high dollar bmw or vette. how about mind your own fucking business & leave my fucking clothesline be, hhmm

as time goes on money seems to expand. back in the day you could make a decent living on $0.19 an hour. you'd buy a house & a car on like a hundred dollars a month. money is blown out of proportion today right fucking now.

when i was a kid (im 40) a couple bucks in the gas tank lasted all night. we'd have a hoot friday night. we aint seen hard times in this country in a long frickin time.

i eat at least 3 meals daily & i have snacks & i have hot tea & or coffee every single day & i am not starving in the least & i have to say that in many other countries i'd be living as a king with my food & my one bedroom apartment & my 1994 lincoln towncar with over 200,000 miles on it & my bullshit warm ass clothes, socks & boots.

i got god damn hot running water & shampoo (two kinds even) & conditioner & body wash & i am fully able to wash my laundry in a washer. i wash my dishes in a sink with hot water & soap. i am right now typing you good & spoiled people just like me at our computers & cell phone & gadgets that we are a pampered ass lot.

people deserve to live a decent life globally. people making shoes for us in new guinea should be making $10-$19 per hour vs' their current wage of $0.13 god damn cents an hour. why is this? that is insane. sure they can buy an apple for $0.02

we have slave labor here in the unites states. we have prostitution slavery here in the usa. we have migrant workers who work harder than 97% of all pearl jam fans who are currently reading my rant. you poor ass fuckers as well as wealthy ass fuckers should go pick vegetables & fruit & nuts awhile. they only pay a couple dollars an hour. you'll be fine. its warm & they have a cup of water for lunch.

Jeanwah · March 2013

pandora wrote:

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

To me people like this are impressive people most especially because of the positivity
that is in them. unsung's words so inspiring, positive amidst personal trials ...
working very hard towards personal goals.
I guess what it comes down to is the type of people one really admires this is who we find
impressive. For me it is those who strive, attain and live with positivity effecting all those around
them in a positive way.

Not to discount unsung, but those qualities aren't exclusive to people working almost double a standard weekly shift.

Wonderful traits, but those kind of hours DO take a toll. And at what/whose expense?

They do not necessarily take a toll anymore than negativity, living lazy, or without goals.
I think in a generalization hard working people are in much better shape mentally,
physically and spiritually then their counterparts.
It has to do with feeling good about yourself. Hard work does just this. Positive outlook makes all
the difference in health.

We are approaching 60. Many of our kids friend's fathers have passed. Those who have
were not hard working nor good examples for their young men. Life styles and outlook on life
is the key, the human body can take hard work, it needs hard work. But most importantly
the body needs a mind and heart that is positive. It needs to be surrounded by others with the
same.

Are you kidding? No one, NO ONE has said on their death bed that they wished that they worked more in their life. Yet it is very common to be on your death bed and wished you spent more time with their kids, spent more time enjoying life, enjoy more time living. Studies prove that working too much leads to health problems, stress and balance problems, family problems, and productivity problems on the job. Do your research.

chadwick · March 2013

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Sounds to me like some people want to crawl out of the poor house but don't want to work for it. Unless you've hit the powerball jackpot, you have to work long hours at times. And yes, those times may be months of 60-72 hour work weeks. You can't have ot both ways.

when i was next to speedy mccreedy & mickeyrat out on our highways i worked an average of 60-100 hrs every single week. sun up to sun down every single day except sunday, this was if i was running around locally & i slept in my house bed. if i was runnin around cross country i drove myself senseless. i was the proudest god damn driver in the universe. i had a erection 14 feet tall & felt unstoppable. but in the end im not a robot & i almost killed myself a few times. being a work aholic & or slave for some company sucks balls & they will forever take advantage of you. in the trucking industry it is all push & almost always zero heart. they will destroy you if they can. if i did not make at least 1 grand weekly i was pissy. $1,000.00 a week is in the poor house for many people. i thought i was doing well. come to find out many americans could not live their bullshit life style on a truck drivers honest hard working income. this is scary & sad as shit

Jeanwah · March 2013

riotgrl wrote:

pandora wrote:

fife wrote:

actually I would not. in my line of work, you need to take care of yourself and working that many hours tells me a couple of things. you have poor time management, you have some attachment issues that are not good or you are too afraid that you will be fired if you don't work that much or finally, you have a hard time in your non-profession life.

or you just like to work ... just plain and simple high goals, hard working, enjoy work.
Funny how all your reasons are negative :? is this what they teach in people management?

My husband was raised by small business owners. He learned to work hard for the family.
To set his goals high for the businesses they owned. To be loyal, dedicated, trustworthy.
He learned to work side by side, team player for the good of all. These are great traits.
They are unselfish traits. He went on to build a successful business in his own field
and pass all those traits onto our children, who's futures are bright.

To me people like this are impressive people most especially because of the positivity
that is in them. unsung's words so inspiring, positive amidst personal trials ...
working very hard towards personal goals.
I guess what it comes down to is the type of people one really admires this is who we find
impressive. For me it is those who strive, attain and live with positivity effecting all those around
them in a positive way.

I agree that these traits you mention are positives and that it is what we want small (and large business) owners to be. However, I took the working long hours to be a negative because I do not believe that we should forgo other pleasures for the sake of work een when we enjoy said work. Forgoing time at home with family and friends or just relaxing and enjoying nature or reading a book or just having some downtime, allow us to recharge and maintain a good work/life balance. I think Americans, in particular, spend a great deal of time working in order to be successful within our given economic structure. I understand that many people think that our current work hard, earn as much as possible is the best system but I think there must be a third way to achieve a better economic balance. There are inherent problems within both socialism and capitalism and instead of touting the benefits of those two structures, I wonder if it is possible to discuss a third option that combines the merits of each. Just a thought, not very precise or elaborate but it is something that I have wondered about.

Americans are bred to work harder, faster, more than any other country. With that comes dysfunctional families (because parents aren't home raising their kids), health problems, a rise in mental dysfunction due to stress of overwork, loss in productivity time for business (not just sick time, but time on the job lost due to being stressed out), lack of a balance, and the list goes on and on. People are expected to work lots of overtime, to work on their "vacations", to feel guilty about taking personal time, etc. And one wonders about the state of Americans and their health... I can go on and on, I did research about work, time and the American a few years ago... European countries actually mandate leisure time because they know how important time off is to everyone, business included. The U.S. is just sabotaging itself here and people don't want to acknowledge that it's just another problem...

chadwick · March 2013

jeanwah i agree fully simply because it is the truth

pandora · March 2013

riotgrl wrote:

I agree that these traits you mention are positives and that it is what we want small (and large business) owners to be. However, I took the working long hours to be a negative because I do not believe that we should forgo other pleasures for the sake of work een when we enjoy said work. Forgoing time at home with family and friends or just relaxing and enjoying nature or reading a book or just having some downtime, allow us to recharge and maintain a good work/life balance. I think Americans, in particular, spend a great deal of time working in order to be successful within our given economic structure. I understand that many people think that our current work hard, earn as much as possible is the best system but I think there must be a third way to achieve a better economic balance. There are inherent problems within both socialism and capitalism and instead of touting the benefits of those two structures, I wonder if it is possible to discuss a third option that combines the merits of each. Just a thought, not very precise or elaborate but it is something that I have wondered about.

There's a difference with being a business owner and an employee in the terms of 'work'.
Here in what we consider enjoyment / life to be. Our business is our life, our work our life
because we choose it to be.

Some employees also do the same. They choose to have their work their life. It is what makes
them happiest. I don't think anyone should tell them that is wrong. I liken it to the military that leave their families to make a career. That is their life, their calling. They have made their work their life.

Why some do that and others don't has much to do with personal goals.
Much to do with what they are taught as children and role models.
Some people are not interested in sitting and reading, would not know what to do in nature
unless it was working to clean it up.

You are looking at it as what you think people should enjoy cause that is what you do.
We may like to go clean the biz up on our day off and have a beer at our desks...
we'll invite the kids to join us, of course

To add what this really means to us is when I tell my child something I am up against
as Mrs ImageLink and he says..." Mom what are WE going to do". To my heart, that fills it up!
It is this bond that all business owners feel and some employees.

Jeanwah · March 2013

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Sounds to me like some people want to crawl out of the poor house but don't want to work for it. Unless you've hit the powerball jackpot, you have to work long hours at times. And yes, those times may be months of 60-72 hour work weeks. You can't have ot both ways.

Working over 60+ hours a week without it being a choice should be against the law. Yet because America is about capitalism and working people to the bone because CEOs need a better bottom line, it's acceptable (by the sheep, anyway). Not to mention, because some people have to work making minimum wage, they have no other choice. What bullshit.

Last-12-Exit · March 2013

So what is it that everyone wants? That the government force all employers to pay workers so that they can make $50,000 a year all while only working 30-40 hours a week? I understand working yourself senseless and employers taking advantage of workers. But damn people, one must have a work ethic that includes being willing to work more than you want to.

Jeanwah · March 2013

chadwick wrote:

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Sounds to me like some people want to crawl out of the poor house but don't want to work for it. Unless you've hit the powerball jackpot, you have to work long hours at times. And yes, those times may be months of 60-72 hour work weeks. You can't have ot both ways.

when i was next to speedy mccreedy & mickeyrat out on our highways i worked an average of 60-100 hrs every single week. sun up to sun down every single day except sunday, this was if i was running around locally & i slept in my house bed. if i was runnin around cross country i drove myself senseless. i was the proudest god damn driver in the universe. i had a erection 14 feet tall & felt unstoppable. but in the end im not a robot & i almost killed myself a few times. being a work aholic & or slave for some company sucks balls & they will forever take advantage of you. in the trucking industry it is all push & almost always zero heart. they will destroy you if they can. if i did not make at least 1 grand weekly i was pissy. $1,000.00 a week is in the poor house for many people. i thought i was doing well. come to find out many americans could not live their bullshit life style on a truck drivers honest hard working income. this is scary & sad as shit

That's mind settling. To know that the truck driver driving next to me is working on little sleep and is overworked means they are at high risk of causing an accident. That should be against the law, but hey, the trucking owner needs his money and so does the driver, so to hell with the other drivers on the road...

hedonist · March 2013

pandora wrote:

They do not necessarily take a toll anymore than negativity, living lazy, or without goals.
I think in a generalization hard working people are in much better shape mentally,
physically and spiritually then their counterparts.
It has to do with feeling good about yourself. Hard work does just this. Positive outlook makes all
the difference in health.

We are approaching 60. Many of our kids friend's fathers have passed. Those who have
were not hard working nor good examples for their young men. Life styles and outlook on life
is the key, the human body can take hard work, it needs hard work. But most importantly
the body needs a mind and heart that is positive. It needs to be surrounded by others with the
same.

I'm not talking about working hard - I do that working a typically 40-hour week...I'm talking about working excessive hours that by design deprive one of time for themselves, for family/friends, for decompressing. Recharging, as riotgrl mentioned.

chadwick · March 2013

1. close all doors to shipping work overseas
2. put work in our hands here in the u.s.
3. a full work week is 40 hrs a week
4. some prices may go up & some prices may go down
5. eating out will cost more
6. community service tasks should be done by ppl in jail & prison as well as mandatory voluntering or pay a little fine
7. create public transportion in all states, counties, towns & cities & people should use the buses as much as possible or get beat w/ a hammer
8. clotheslines
9. legalize marijuana straight across the board
10. growing hemp

chadwick · March 2013

Jeanwah wrote:

That's mind settling. To know that the truck driver driving next to me is working on little sleep and is overworked means they are at high risk of causing an accident. That should be against the law, but hey, the trucking owner needs his money and so does the driver, so to hell with the other drivers on the road...

yes that driver could cause an accident. chances are it will not be his or her fault. truck drivers are professional drivers. yes they screw up. it's a fact that most of the time the accident was caused by a none truck driver.

Last-12-Exit · March 2013

Jeanwah wrote:

chadwick wrote:

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Sounds to me like some people want to crawl out of the poor house but don't want to work for it. Unless you've hit the powerball jackpot, you have to work long hours at times. And yes, those times may be months of 60-72 hour work weeks. You can't have ot both ways.

when i was next to speedy mccreedy & mickeyrat out on our highways i worked an average of 60-100 hrs every single week. sun up to sun down every single day except sunday, this was if i was running around locally & i slept in my house bed. if i was runnin around cross country i drove myself senseless. i was the proudest god damn driver in the universe. i had a erection 14 feet tall & felt unstoppable. but in the end im not a robot & i almost killed myself a few times. being a work aholic & or slave for some company sucks balls & they will forever take advantage of you. in the trucking industry it is all push & almost always zero heart. they will destroy you if they can. if i did not make at least 1 grand weekly i was pissy. $1,000.00 a week is in the poor house for many people. i thought i was doing well. come to find out many americans could not live their bullshit life style on a truck drivers honest hard working income. this is scary & sad as shit

That's mind settling. To know that the truck driver driving next to me is working on little sleep and is overworked means they are at high risk of causing an accident. That should be against the law, but hey, the trucking owner needs his money and so does the driver, so to hell with the other drivers on the road...

It is against the law to drive like that. I'm not a truck driver, but my dad was long ago. He would tell me stories how driver's would keep 2 log books. One for the law when they were stopped and one for their employer. Are u aware of this practice Chadwick?

Jeanwah · March 2013

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

They do not necessarily take a toll anymore than negativity, living lazy, or without goals.
I think in a generalization hard working people are in much better shape mentally,
physically and spiritually then their counterparts.
It has to do with feeling good about yourself. Hard work does just this. Positive outlook makes all
the difference in health.

We are approaching 60. Many of our kids friend's fathers have passed. Those who have
were not hard working nor good examples for their young men. Life styles and outlook on life
is the key, the human body can take hard work, it needs hard work. But most importantly
the body needs a mind and heart that is positive. It needs to be surrounded by others with the
same.

I'm not talking about working hard - I do that working a typically 40-hour week...I'm talking about working excessive hours that by design deprive one of time for themselves, for family/friends, for decompressing. Recharging, as riotgrl mentioned.

It's really why there are so many Americans looking for a pill to cure that stress problem, anxiety problem, depression problem. Because there's no time to recharge.

hedonist · March 2013

Jeanwah wrote:

pandora wrote:

We are approaching 60. Many of our kids friend's fathers have passed. Those who have
were not hard working nor good examples for their young men. Life styles and outlook on life
is the key, the human body can take hard work, it needs hard work. But most importantly
the body needs a mind and heart that is positive. It needs to be surrounded by others with the
same.

Are you kidding? No one, NO ONE has said on their death bed that they wished that they worked more in their life. Yet it is very common to be on your death bed and wished you spent more time with their kids, spent more time enjoying life, enjoy more time living. Studies prove that working too much leads to health problems, stress and balance problems, family problems, and productivity problems on the job. Do your research.

Yup. Still have yet to read the rest of this thread, but I know the time I spent with my father at the hospice three days before he died had NOTHING to do with work, but of the life he lived and the kind of man and father he was. A fucking good one at that.

Pandora, I don't get your comment about those fathers who've passed were not hardworking nor good examples. If you've clarified or corrected this subsequent to your post up there, then my apologies.

minimum wage (part II)

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