Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings
Comments
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For home defense, why not have a shotgun with the first shell being non-lethal? A blast of rock-salt will get most people's attention ... and if that doesn't persuade some one to get the hell out of dodge, then you go to the birdshot.Be Excellent To Each OtherParty On, Dudes!0
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This is the thing that freaks me out. It seems like in most (if not all) of the recent mass shootings, the shooters obtained their guns legally, and didn't seem to have records to indicate they wouldn't under current laws. I've come in contact with a lot of people who in my clinical opinion (my views on gun control aside) should not have access to a weapon, and yet most of them have never crossed the line, YET. Most of them don't have any history of criminal charges YET (although some may have minor traffic violations, campus hearing board charges or minor alcohol infractions), and most don't have any significant mental health issues (aside from ADHD, anxiety disorders, etc). Only 2 of them had a significant mental health diagnosis. Yet having had some glimpse into their thinking process, the thought of any of them owning a gun is a really scary thought....and it is also a very real possibility.Cosmo wrote:
...redrock wrote:Was he Cosmo? We don't know. Sure, it would seem he obtained his guns legally, but was he responsible? Was he law-abiding?
This 'law abiding responsible' thing wasn't about what you wrote, Cosmo. Some here justify gun ownership (which ever gun and how many one may want) by talking about these people, differentiating them from the 'bad guys'. I would just like to know what they mean by this and how responsible is 'responsible' - what to they have to do to achieve this 'status'. As far as I'm concerned, those keeping a loaded weapon (locked away or not) are not 'responsible'. Some may think so. Are there 'rules' for responsible gun ownership?
I don't know. I mean, did he or did he not obtain his guns and ammo legally? I don't think he had any criminal convictions or if he was ever even arrested. Was he? I don't know.
The same thing goes for the guy in Maine that was en route to shoot up his former workplace... was he a responsible gun owner? I mean, technically, he never shot anyone. If he is freed of all charges, should he get his arsenal back? Maybe he was responsible... except for that 'going over to kill everyone in the office' thing.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:pandora wrote:But maybe you are like some here and side with those who are the victimizers,
not with the victim ...
your countless attempts at character assassination of others based on nothing but presumptions is tiresome. you can't even answer the questions, just all this nonsense about "miss ruby".
I am Canadian. But more than that I am human. This discussion is not, and SHOULD NOT BE, restricted to Americans. I care about all human rights and life, not just those of my countrymen. I have friends and relatives in America. I think this discussion should be had by all, not just by those who live within your borders.
As an American I welcome your contributions to this discussion.This show, another show, a show here and a show there.0 -
Zoso wrote:DS1119 wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:As mentioned many times already, most illegal guns start off as legal guns. And most a cidental shootings are from legal guns. And apparently 3/4 of mass shootings are committed with legal guns.
Of course all illegal guns start off as legal guns not most. :? :fp: There aren't illegal gun factories worldwide.
By taking LEGAL firearms from US citiznes hands solves nothing. Last time I checked there's gun violence in every country. And that 3/4 stat is highly maipulated. HIGHLY MANIPULATED! How does anyone explain the "mass" shootings in countries where there are no firearms? Probably blame it on the US I'm sure?! :fp:
the middle east aside, what mass shootings in other countries? the one and only one in Australia (before laws were changed), the one in Scotland and the recent one in Norway? That's not many.
Yes those...I guess we could also bring up the mass bombings then too. 0 -
Zoso wrote:The old lady story is one example of guns being a protector.. for every story like that you could find 10 that detail gun injuries and deaths from accidents using guns etc.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture? 0 -
redrock wrote:Damn... such drama again. Impossible to have a reasoned, proper debate here.
Good for Miss Ruby - can we move on now? Miss Ruby was probably never in 'grave' danger. Two unarmed petty thieves KNOCKED three times at her door, waiting before they came in, expecting an empty house. They are the type of burglars that would not enter a home if they heard noise or someone shouted back at them. No way diminishing Ruby Hodge's courage but please... let's not have so much histrionics around this.
Cold hearts, blood on their hands, senseless, insensitive posts (like it's not happening :? ) Please... Can we be done with this melodramatic rhetoric and maybe 'read' (really 'read') what people are saying instead of going off on one tangent over and over again?
Dimi's story - Mr Antonis. He has lived it, seen it. A real story - a hundred of those for each 'Ruby Hodge' story. Here three lives shattered - one 7 year old dead, one 11 brother and one 78 grand-father scarred for life, never being able to forgive themselves (not mentioning the rest of the family). All that because of a loaded weapon left within reach (just like Hodge's loaded gun under her pillow).
Dimi made very good observations in the post with regards to addressing the root of the problem, ie help create a better life for a better future, hope. Help bring people 'up' - not leaving them so disillusioned that one thinks crime/violence is their only way out. What about elaborating on this? How try to improve on the ROOT of the problem (which goes beyond the ease of acquiring firearms).
Wow just wow... your assumption puts a fragile 89 year old woman in no danger wtf!
and what do you sitting safe behind a computer
what qualifies you to judge her moment of danger
when two young strong men entered her house through a broken down door?
Tough to dismiss another human beings trauma.
And yes if your bolded statement is not insensitive I don't know what is..
thanks for proving my point like many others here. So ready to let an 89 year old suffer
because she chooses to protect herself!
Do you feel the situations that people are in or just sit there on a high horse of safety
and judge others for protecting themselves.. What a crock!
How can you make that judgement ?
Answer that please... how can you make that judgement for her life?
Miss Ruby is a real story a real life that matters.
Gun opponents do not want to acknowledge any good that comes from gun ownership...
Like Miss Ruby saving her own life, protecting what she owns, protecting her body and her home.
This lack of common sense is why those in favor will fight to keep guns available
to those who need them because those who don't need them want to take them away.0 -
Exactly! but gun opponents can't hear this ...DS1119 wrote:Zoso wrote:The old lady story is one example of guns being a protector.. for every story like that you could find 10 that detail gun injuries and deaths from accidents using guns etc.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?0 -
pandora wrote:
Exactly! but gun opponents can't hear this ...DS1119 wrote:Zoso wrote:The old lady story is one example of guns being a protector.. for every story like that you could find 10 that detail gun injuries and deaths from accidents using guns etc.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?
Sorry, the people that buy their guns legally and then go on rampages have ruined it for all of you. Tough shit.This show, another show, a show here and a show there.0 -
I heard a great you tube on the radio out of your state yesterday...ComeToTX wrote:pandora wrote:
Exactly! but gun opponents can't hear this ...DS1119 wrote:
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?
Sorry, the people that buy their guns legally and then go on rampages have ruined it for all of you. Tough shit.
I have not had time to check it out but it is a what to do 'in case of scenario'...
about protecting oneself not necessarily with guns but included are guns.
The little I heard was great common sense. What is not is the hysteria of gun opponents
because of one.0 -
the sentiment behind it is just as bad though...hedonist wrote:
I literally laughed out loud at that.Cosmo wrote:
...comebackgirl wrote:I too am ready to move beyond the Miss Ruby story. I'm glad no further harm came to her.
I'm getting to the point where I'm gonna go down to the local Wal-Mart to buy a gun and drive over and shoot that old Ruby lady, myself.
(OBVIOUS DISCLAIMER - I am not advocating the actual taking down of Miss Ruby)
I could use the example of different outcomes for our elderly
when they had no gun for defense...
real life stories, feel them.
Broken limbs, busted jaws, cigarette burns, rape yes even rape of our elderly women
and of course lets not forget ... death.
The gun opponents feel that is ok, that no one has a right to protect themselves with a gun...
well then we can only say what if that was your grandmother to help them understand...
oh wait their grandmother lives in a good part of town she doesn't need a gun ...
just keep the doors locked. Can they not feel what it would be like to have
their loved one live through or be lost to this horror?
I'm glad I can provide a happy ending real life story for Miss Ruby...
it's even a joy to annoy some with it
those who don't get why she is the perfect example of responsible gun ownership but
there are countless others ... gun opponents don't want to hear that though
and will always give the lame what if's.
They want the stories to go away...
maybe the people too because would be the common sense outcome
if indeed they had no gun. They would be another statistic, another victim.
But google away folks people are fighting back and winning,
stopping crime, protecting themselves, refusing to be a victim.
Again while you are at it google safe and responsible gun ownership,
it is all there, the how to's. And more than you can imagine are doing it.
Unfortunately we hear of those who don't not do, another ploy of the gun opponents,
as is the child accidents including up to the age of 24, including those
involved in crime themselves.
The safety classes have waiting lists as more and more are buying guns
and plan on being responsible with them, Good for America!
This should actually be encouraged by gun opponents one would think,
encouraged that people will be trained, responsible and able to counter criminals
who have less training, preparation, knowledge.
Counter criminals who are the parasites living off of other human beings without compassion
or respect for life itself.0 -
An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."0 -
I have answered every question asked of me and by golly more ...Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:pandora wrote:But maybe you are like some here and side with those who are the victimizers,
not with the victim ...
your countless attempts at character assassination of others based on nothing but presumptions is tiresome. you can't even answer the questions, just all this nonsense about "miss ruby".
I am Canadian. But more than that I am human. This discussion is not, and SHOULD NOT BE, restricted to Americans. I care about all human rights and life, not just those of my countrymen. I have friends and relatives in America. I think this discussion should be had by all, not just by those who live within your borders.
anyone who thinks Miss Ruby is a nonsense story then
talks about their own friends and family obviously doesn't get it.
Doesn't this dismiss her life and her trauma while making your own important?
Miss Ruby has friends and family too and they are damn glad she is still here.
You have admitted if it was up to you she would be a victim instead of a hero.0 -
redrock wrote:An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
Thank you for that. This supports what many of us have been saying for awhile now. I hope some can understand and digest this.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
redrock wrote:
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
i dont think someone need to be Einstain to understand that..."...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”0 -
http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htmredrock wrote:An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
some more interesting facts0 -
JonnyPistachio wrote:
Thank you for that. This supports what many of us have been saying for awhile now. I hope some can understand and digest this.
It's a small study but it is from a independent and reliable source with no ulterior motives.
The 'fact sheet' from the gun owners association... ah yes... the famous 2.5m figure.. Hmmm...
A bit of an explanation of this figure...
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hi ... index.html (to start with - lists various studies about this)
and...
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... ID7R_KeBLw
Interesting reading.
This could go on for ever but I won't play the game. Each and everyone knows how to google. I may be too bold in assuming all would understand validity of sources though.Post edited by redrock on0 -
That's ok, even if its small, it doesnt take much to realize that in the USA accidents and things MUCH more highly outnumber the rare hero situation.redrock wrote:JonnyPistachio wrote:
Thank you for that. This supports what many of us have been saying for awhile now. I hope some can understand and digest this.
It's a small study but it is from a independent and reliable source with no ulterior motives.
This is the stat that is concerning:
54 unintentional shootings
--VS--
13 shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense
These accidents are out of control and tons of innocent children are often victims...people dont care about these?Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
pandora wrote:Wow just wow... your assumption puts a fragile 89 year old woman in no danger wtf!
and what do you sitting safe behind a computer
what qualifies you to judge her moment of danger
when two young strong men entered her house through a broken down door?
Tough to dismiss another human beings trauma.
And yes if your bolded statement is not insensitive I don't know what is..
thanks for proving my point like many others here. So ready to let an 89 year old suffer
because she chooses to protect herself!
Do you feel the situations that people are in or just sit there on a high horse of safety
and judge others for protecting themselves.. What a crock!
How can you make that judgement ?
Answer that please... how can you make that judgement for her life?
Miss Ruby is a real story a real life that matters.
Who, who, who here is judging this lady Ruby? Who wishes she'd suffered instead of what happened? And more importantly: How would she suffer from stricter gun laws?
Aren't you also sitting safely behind a computer? How can you judge whether she was cool and poised or panicked and traumatised in her moment of peril?pandora wrote:Gun opponents do not want to acknowledge any good that comes from gun ownership...
Like Miss Ruby saving her own life, protecting what she owns, protecting her body and her home.
Maybe some don't, but I want to and can do so easily. Good for miss Ruby for protecting herself, very well done! But every time we hear a story like this, it seems that the pro-gun movement wants to shout out "See? See what happened there!? More guns for everyone, case closed, point proven!", which is a bit ridiculous.pandora wrote:This lack of common sense is why those in favor will fight to keep guns available
to those who need them because those who don't need them want to take them away.
You're saying that everyone who has a gun needs it? :? And that everyone who doesn't want a gun (and wants stricter controls for them) will never face danger? Sure hope you're right about that one!
I want more gun control and I want it now. I want it here, there, everywhere! To me, that makes perfect (common) sense."Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."0 -
JonnyPistachio wrote:
That's ok, even if its small, it doesnt take much to realize that in the USA accidents and things MUCH more highly outnumber the rare hero situation.redrock wrote:JonnyPistachio wrote:
Thank you for that. This supports what many of us have been saying for awhile now. I hope some can understand and digest this.
It's a small study but it is from a independent and reliable source with no ulterior motives.
This is the stat that is concerning:
54 unintentional shootings
--VS--
13 shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense
These accidents are out of control and tons of innocent children are often victims...people dont care about these?
Dimi's sad tale is a prime example.
Guess some choose not to see this.
Whether Ruby or Dimi's neighbour, these are 'anecdotes' (in the harsh reality of life). There is the bigger picture - one needs to look at that.0 -
It's all drama Emmi - let it be!eMMI wrote:Who, who, who here is judging this lady Ruby? Who wishes she'd suffered instead of what happened?
Exactly!eMMI wrote:And more importantly: How would she suffer from stricter gun laws?
I think what has been said is that those that are for more controls want to TAKE away the guns from those that NEED them.eMMI wrote:You're saying that everyone who has a gun needs it? :? And that everyone who doesn't want a gun (and wants stricter controls for them) will never face danger? .
In view of what is happening in this country, it does, doesn't it?eMMI wrote:I want more gun control and I want it now. I want it here, there, everywhere! To me, that makes perfect (common) sense.0
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