Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

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  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    pandora wrote:
    comebackgirl wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Of course its speculation ... so?

    We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
    of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
    here on this thread are judgmental speculation.

    I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
    I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
    Well as I said earlier there is a danger in presenting opinions as facts. Of course it makes sense to try to understand why this happened and make sense of it. That's a very human thing to do. What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time. I'm sure help was readily available to him. He's probably one of the lucky ones in that regard. Most students can use the school counseling center free of charge. Whether or not they are willing to do it is a whole other ball game.
    I know you know mental illness but have you dealt with a cracked mind...
    a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
    or mood disorder.

    Again did we learn anything from Loughner? He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic
    who plotted and carried out a mass killing.     Witnesses said he behaved just as this
    guy did, as did the VA Tech killer, detached, emotionless, zombie like.
    Just going through the motions emotionless.

    I guess if it is dangerous to speculate about him then somebody should tell
    the experts on TV and radio. ;) cause boy are they talking mental illness.

    Often, the people on TV aren't experts. An expert, at this point, would say it's too soon to draw a conclusion. What producer is going to put that person on TV? They want a dramatic sound bite that is under 60 seconds.
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    Go Beavers wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    All of this speculation about, "He was menatlly this... or he should have done that..." is meaningless.
    All that matters in 12 people are dead and several others are clinging to life becuase of THIS Man.
    He has to be held responsible for what he did... even if it was his alter ego or some voice in his head. He didn't flip the switch and go berzerk... over a long period of time, he amassed a stockpile of weapons he could transport and use on people.
    No one really gives a shit about someone's bullshit/baseless speculation that CANNOT be applied to this CRIMINAL. We just want him out of our free society.

    What might come out of the speculation and any conclusions that can be drawn from his mental state down the road, after information is gathered, is helpful to people who want to prevent this happening in the future. These people might be in the mental health field, criminal justice field, or both. It's also natural for people to want to make some sense of such extreme behavior.
    +1
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Go Beavers wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    All of this speculation about, "He was menatlly this... or he should have done that..." is meaningless.
    All that matters in 12 people are dead and several others are clinging to life becuase of THIS Man.
    He has to be held responsible for what he did... even if it was his alter ego or some voice in his head. He didn't flip the switch and go berzerk... over a long period of time, he amassed a stockpile of weapons he could transport and use on people.
    No one really gives a shit about someone's bullshit/baseless speculation that CANNOT be applied to this CRIMINAL. We just want him out of our free society.

    What might come out of the speculation and any conclusions that can be drawn from his mental state down the road, after information is gathered, is helpful to people who want to prevent this happening in the future. These people might be in the mental health field, criminal justice field, or both. It's also natural for people to want to make some sense of such extreme behavior.
    ...
    That was sort of my point. It is meaningless for everyday people to try to isert some sort of wisdom by applying some past experience or relationship to this specific case. That baseless speculation is just that... baseless, i.e., bullshit.
    There are people out there who do this stuff for a living. Professionals with knowledge, understanding and factual knowledge to sort this out... over time and through scientific research of the subject to come to couclusions... which vastly differ from wild, unfounded speculation.
    The facts that we know... at this specific time is this... 12 dead... and counting. Don't give this fucking asshole any other title than 'Mass Murderer'.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    For those that think people would not be able to react should there have been people allowed to carry concealed but were not allowed to due to company policy; there was another shooting earlier in the year in Aurora.

    Aurora police spokesman Frank Fania asked rhetorically: “Who knows what would’ve happened if the (church member, an off-duty police officer) had not been there? It certainly could have been a lot worse.”


    http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/ ... er-ignored


    Concealed Carry works; "gun-free" zones do not.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,759
    unsung wrote:
    For those that think people would not be able to react should there have been people allowed to carry concealed but were not allowed to due to company policy; there was another shooting earlier in the year in Aurora.

    Aurora police spokesman Frank Fania asked rhetorically: “Who knows what would’ve happened if the (church member, an off-duty police officer) had not been there? It certainly could have been a lot worse.”


    http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/ ... er-ignored


    Concealed Carry works; "gun-free" zones do not.
    But it was a police officer:.
    I personally think that if there were a bunch of people with concealed weapons I there it could have turned into a good 'ol fashioned shoot out... NOT something you want in a crowded confined space where the only guy who you want dead is wearing g full body armour and is carrying a semi automatic assault rifle!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    unsung wrote:
    For those that think people would not be able to react should there have been people allowed to carry concealed but were not allowed to due to company policy; there was another shooting earlier in the year in Aurora.

    Aurora police spokesman Frank Fania asked rhetorically: “Who knows what would’ve happened if the (church member, an off-duty police officer) had not been there? It certainly could have been a lot worse.”


    http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/ ... er-ignored


    Concealed Carry works; "gun-free" zones do not.

    It's one thing to react in a church at 3pm, however it's a whole other story to react in a dark movie theatre with tear gas smoke billowing, people running about in terror all while the movie is STILL playing loudly. That to me is utter chaos to get a good shot a shooter in full SWAT gear. Easier said than done.

    You appear to be a good shot so have at it.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    What's it like to be oblivious to facts?

    Gun-free zones only benefit murderers.
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,072
    yeah, nothing wrong with gun laws in this country...

    In the NRA’s view of the world, Ian Stawicki was a law-abiding citizen with the right to carry a loaded gun in any neighborhood of his choosing.

    Until he shot four people to death in a Seattle café and then grabbed a mom and shot her in the head near her children’s school, Washington State’s NRA-style gun carry law meant that police had no choice but to issue Stawicki a license to carry a loaded, hidden handgun. Police were not allowed to consider his long history of violence and mental illness – dangerous gun laws forced them to let him be armed and dangerous.

    Stawicki’s father said he wanted his son’s concealed carry license revoked due to his son’s long history of mental illness and violence but “The response to us was, there’s nothing we can do,” because the law mandated that he could be armed. Washington State’s dangerous gun laws require police to allow public gun carrying by anyone who simply pays their fee and passes a quick background check.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    ComeToTX wrote:
    yeah, nothing wrong with gun laws in this country...

    In the NRA’s view of the world, Ian Stawicki was a law-abiding citizen with the right to carry a loaded gun in any neighborhood of his choosing.

    Until he shot four people to death in a Seattle café and then grabbed a mom and shot her in the head near her children’s school, Washington State’s NRA-style gun carry law meant that police had no choice but to issue Stawicki a license to carry a loaded, hidden handgun. Police were not allowed to consider his long history of violence and mental illness – dangerous gun laws forced them to let him be armed and dangerous.

    Stawicki’s father said he wanted his son’s concealed carry license revoked due to his son’s long history of mental illness and violence but “The response to us was, there’s nothing we can do,” because the law mandated that he could be armed. Washington State’s dangerous gun laws require police to allow public gun carrying by anyone who simply pays their fee and passes a quick background check.

    This why in our country in a few months this tragic scene will be forgotten.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    unsung wrote:
    What's it like to be oblivious to facts?

    Gun-free zones only benefit murderers.

    People get the facts, but there are more to the facts than what meets the eye. What is it like to ignore common sense? You know... good old common sense. Like, for example, if there were less guns, there would be less gun violence. At a very minimum, there would be fewer accidental deaths where kids shoot other kids (the 4-5 year old variety). No?

    You never bothered to address the very strong counter-point made (by a few people) to your assertion that tough gun laws have done nothing to curb the gun-based violence in Chicago.

    The point was... how can these gun laws have their desired effect when, as easy as pie, the people that want them can go across a state line or two and own the weapon of their choice (with a bunch of really cheap ammunition as well)? If the entire country was regulated, access would be more difficult. It just wouldn't be as easy for some idiot to go, "Shit. I'm feeling crappy. Gonna go buy a bunch of guns and shoot a bunch of people."
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    Cosmo wrote:
    All of this speculation about, "He was menatlly this... or he should have done that..." is meaningless.
    All that matters in 12 people are dead and several others are clinging to life becuase of THIS Man.
    He has to be held responsible for what he did... even if it was his alter ego or some voice in his head. He didn't flip the switch and go berzerk... over a long period of time, he amassed a stockpile of weapons he could transport and use on people.
    No one really gives a shit about someone's bullshit/baseless speculation that CANNOT be applied to this CRIMINAL. We just want him out of our free society.
    thank you!
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

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  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    ComeToTX wrote:
    yeah, nothing wrong with gun laws in this country...

    In the NRA’s view of the world, Ian Stawicki was a law-abiding citizen with the right to carry a loaded gun in any neighborhood of his choosing.

    Until he shot four people to death in a Seattle café and then grabbed a mom and shot her in the head near her children’s school, Washington State’s NRA-style gun carry law meant that police had no choice but to issue Stawicki a license to carry a loaded, hidden handgun. Police were not allowed to consider his long history of violence and mental illness – dangerous gun laws forced them to let him be armed and dangerous.

    Stawicki’s father said he wanted his son’s concealed carry license revoked due to his son’s long history of mental illness and violence but “The response to us was, there’s nothing we can do,” because the law mandated that he could be armed. Washington State’s dangerous gun laws require police to allow public gun carrying by anyone who simply pays their fee and passes a quick background check.

    Scary as hell. Really scary.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Fifi_Ireland wrote:
    AzWicker wrote:
    comebackgirl wrote:
    What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time.

    He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness

    or he planned his defense in advance. If he really thought he was the joker he wouldnt have turned up in full combat gear and he would have painted his face!

    and perhaps worn a nurse's uniform. :lol::lol::lol:
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    oh and kudos to AMc for now banning costumes... thatll surely fix the problem. :roll: idiots.
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  • comebackgirl
    comebackgirl Posts: 9,885
    catefrances wrote:
    oh and kudos to AMc for now banning costumes... thatll surely fix the problem. :roll: idiots.
    so costumes aren't allowed, but guns are? :think:
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    comebackgirl wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    oh and kudos to AMc for now banning costumes... thatll surely fix the problem. :roll: idiots.
    so costumes aren't allowed, but guns are? :think:


    not if the cinema is a gun free zone. ;) i thought the US was just one big gun free for all zone.
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung wrote:
    What's it like to be oblivious to facts?

    Gun-free zones only benefit murderers.
    ...
    So... wait... your solution to this tragedy would have been to put more bullets in the air of a dark movie theater that had a gas canister ignited in it and terror stricken men, women and children running across the rows and up the aisles?
    Really? That's your solution???
    Because i would think that more bullets in the air would result in more bullets in the the bodies of people. Unless, of course, all of the good bullets in the air only went into the body of the bad man... who happened to be wearing body armor.
    Silly me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,759
    Fifi_Ireland wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Why would anyone think someone in a full blown episode, a break from reality,
    a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.

    Really?

    The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
    Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.

    He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone ;)

    I'm pretty sure someone who had a break from reality and woke up surrounded by guns and bombs might seek some form of assistance! I've never heard of someone having a 6 month long break from reality, although i will stand corrected by the experts.
    Exactly. That's why I don't think he is schizophrenic. There was too much planning involved for too long for that kind of thing. I don't think this was a break from reality. I don't know what it was about though. I don't know that he is even mentally I'll. There are LOTS of cases where mass killers weren't.S maybe he is sick and maybe he isn't.Either way, I think that his actions seem to demonstrate that he knew what he was dong was wrong and evil, yet he chose to do it anyway for whatever reason, crazy or not. But in the end no one knows yet. The guy has apparently not said one word to police or anyone else except MAYBE his lawyer. That is another reason to guess that he's not broken from reality though. Those who are would normally talk after the deed. Not clam up completely.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Cosmo wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    What's it like to be oblivious to facts?

    Gun-free zones only benefit murderers.
    ...
    So... wait... your solution to this tragedy would have been to put more bullets in the air of a dark movie theater that had a gas canister ignited in it and terror stricken men, women and children running across the rows and up the aisles?
    Really? That's your solution???
    Because i would think that more bullets in the air would result in more bullets in the the bodies of people. Unless, of course, all of the good bullets in the air only went into the body of the bad man... who happened to be wearing body armor.
    Silly me.


    Cosmo, first of all do you honestly think that this guy would have tried to commit this if he knew that people were encouraged to concealed carry in the theatre? I'm guessing he would have thought better of it. Ever hear of a mass shooting at a gun show?

    And if you think for one second that wearing all of those clothes would cause bullets to just bounce of off him like Superman, well, I think you are smarter than that.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    comebackgirl wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    oh and kudos to AMc for now banning costumes... thatll surely fix the problem. :roll: idiots.
    so costumes aren't allowed, but guns are? :think:


    What are all of the Harry Potter fans going to do???
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