Rutgers student gets 30-day jail sentence in hate crime case

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  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    know1 wrote:
    Who Princess wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    I want to ask the question again: If it was a college student spying on his heterosexual roommate and partner, would 30 days seem like not enough, just right, or too much?
    I would add that if he had spied on a heterosexual roommate and partner and one of them subsequently committed suicide, I think the case would cause just as much outrage.

    Whether the sentence is fair or not, I can't really say. As others have pointed out, it's not illegal to be an asshole.

    Are you saying that a sentence for a criminal act should be harsher depending on the actions taken by the victim after the criminal act?
    I said that the outrage would have been the same.

    And once again, I don't know what would have been a fair sentence. I think this guy sounds like an immature, insensitive douche, none of which is against the law.

    Had the roommate not committed suicide, I think there's a good chance there wouldn't have been any criminal charges. The young man who died had requested a change of roommates. He might have just made the change and let the matter drop rather than draw any more attention to it. There's no way to know.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    pandora wrote:

    It is clear there are cause and effect, there are action reaction...
    We all know what happened here. We know a crime was committed and a life was taken because
    of that crime.     Pretty simple.
    I don't think Ravi should be held responsible for another individual's actions (even though Ravi is a piece of shit).
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Who Princess wrote:
    I said that the outrage would have been the same.

    And once again, I don't know what would have been a fair sentence. I think this guy sounds like an immature, insensitive douche, none of which is against the law.

    Had the roommate not committed suicide, I think there's a good chance there wouldn't have been any criminal charges. The young man who died had requested a change of roommates. He might have just made the change and let the matter drop rather than draw any more attention to it. There's no way to know.

    Yeah - I know you said the outrage would have been the same, so I was asking if that translated to the sentence.

    And I suspect the outrage would not have been the same, but I really I do not know.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    I believe harsher charges should have been sought along with a hasher penalty.

    The social media can quickly bring embarrassment, shame, life changing events for victims.
    This is a new weapon to weld for bullies. It is handing them power to destroy other peoples lives.
    Infringing on the right to personal privacy must be punished and for me 30 days
    is not a punishment it is a joke.

    Tyler Clementi was born in 1991, he was a talented violinist with his whole life ahead of him.
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    pandora wrote:
    I believe harsher charges should have been sought along with a hasher penalty.

    The social media can quickly bring embarrassment, shame, life changing events for victims.
    This is a new weapon to weld for bullies. It is handing them power to destroy other peoples lives.
    Infringing on the right to personal privacy must be punished and for me 30 days
    is not a punishment it is a joke.

    Tyler Clementi was born in 1991, he was a talented violinist with his whole life ahead of him.
    And HE decided to throw that life away.

    Ravi can't be held responsible for that.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,394
    pandora wrote:
    I believe harsher charges should have been sought along with a hasher penalty.

    The social media can quickly bring embarrassment, shame, life changing events for victims.
    This is a new weapon to weld for bullies. It is handing them power to destroy other peoples lives.
    Infringing on the right to personal privacy must be punished and for me 30 days
    is not a punishment it is a joke.

    Tyler Clementi was born in 1991, he was a talented violinist with his whole life ahead of him.
    What if Ravi had crumbled under the attacks that the nation unleashed upon him with social media before little facts were known and shot himself?

    Oh, sweet irony!
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    keeponrockin wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I believe harsher charges should have been sought along with a hasher penalty.

    The social media can quickly bring embarrassment, shame, life changing events for victims.
    This is a new weapon to weld for bullies. It is handing them power to destroy other peoples lives.
    Infringing on the right to personal privacy must be punished and for me 30 days
    is not a punishment it is a joke.

    Tyler Clementi was born in 1991, he was a talented violinist with his whole life ahead of him.
    And HE decided to throw that life away.

    Ravi can't be held responsible for that.
    Of course he can ...
    If you expect Tyler to take responsibility we must have Ravi do the same for his part of this
    crime and the events he set in motion.

    If we do not we give all bullies the right of way to victimize, to cause anguish, to destroy lives
    and to condone this by saying the victim should have been stronger.
    Victims have basic rights ... the right to live their lives and not be victimized!

    Tyler had the right to privacy, the right to love whom he wanted without being chastised.

    Ravi caused the anguish that caused Tyler to take his life ...
    no different than a bank robber who causes someone to run in front of a car,
    they both indirectly took a life while committing a crime.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Jason P wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I believe harsher charges should have been sought along with a hasher penalty.

    The social media can quickly bring embarrassment, shame, life changing events for victims.
    This is a new weapon to weld for bullies. It is handing them power to destroy other peoples lives.
    Infringing on the right to personal privacy must be punished and for me 30 days
    is not a punishment it is a joke.

    Tyler Clementi was born in 1991, he was a talented violinist with his whole life ahead of him.
    What if Ravi had crumbled under the attacks that the nation unleashed upon him with social media before little facts were known and shot himself?

    Oh, sweet irony!
    should I be so bold as to say justice ...
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    pandora wrote:
    Of course he can ...
    If you expect Tyler to take responsibility we must have Ravi do the same for his part of this
    crime and the events he set in motion.

    If we do not we give all bullies the right of way to victimize, to cause anguish, to destroy lives
    and to condone this by saying the victim should have been stronger.
    Victims have basic rights ... the right to live their lives and not be victimized!

    Tyler had the right to privacy, the right to love whom he wanted without being chastised.

    Ravi caused the anguish that caused Tyler to take his life ...
    no different than a bank robber who causes someone to run in front of a car,
    they both indirectly took a life while committing a crime.
    And Ravi broke that, and was charged and convicted for it. He didn't take a life while committing a crime, Ravi died far after the incident occurred.

    Personal responsibility is important.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    keeponrockin wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Of course he can ...
    If you expect Tyler to take responsibility we must have Ravi do the same for his part of this
    crime and the events he set in motion.

    If we do not we give all bullies the right of way to victimize, to cause anguish, to destroy lives
    and to condone this by saying the victim should have been stronger.
    Victims have basic rights ... the right to live their lives and not be victimized!

    Tyler had the right to privacy, the right to love whom he wanted without being chastised.

    Ravi caused the anguish that caused Tyler to take his life ...
    no different than a bank robber who causes someone to run in front of a car,
    they both indirectly took a life while committing a crime.
    And Ravi broke that, and was charged and convicted for it. He didn't take a life while committing a crime, Ravi died far after the incident occurred.

    Personal responsibility is important.
    I disagree a life is gone as direct consequence to his crime and should be considered
    in punishment. Ravi is directly responsible for the loss of life by bullying and tormenting
    while committing the crime of compromising another's basic personal right to privacy.

    This as in a woman is brutally victimized and commits suicide days later, in my opinion
    this should weigh heavily on the rapist and directly affect his punishment and guilt,
    death as a result of a crime upon another.

    Taking ones own life is the height of being victimized in these cases and the victimizers
    should take responsibility in their part and be punished more harshly as contributing
    to the loss of life.

    This December 19th Tyler would be celebrating his 21st birthday, he is not because Ravi
    victimized him, making his life a horrible hell in which to be.
    Does anyone know how this feels?

    I imagine a heart broken, a spirit broken.

    I've stated how I feel about this horrible crime and injustice,
    my heart and spirit is with this young man, the victim...
    Tyler Clementi ...
    it is a terrible senseless loss.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,221
    keeponrockin wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Of course he can ...
    If you expect Tyler to take responsibility we must have Ravi do the same for his part of this
    crime and the events he set in motion.

    If we do not we give all bullies the right of way to victimize, to cause anguish, to destroy lives
    and to condone this by saying the victim should have been stronger.
    Victims have basic rights ... the right to live their lives and not be victimized!

    Tyler had the right to privacy, the right to love whom he wanted without being chastised.

    Ravi caused the anguish that caused Tyler to take his life ...
    no different than a bank robber who causes someone to run in front of a car,
    they both indirectly took a life while committing a crime.
    And Ravi broke that, and was charged and convicted for it. He didn't take a life while committing a crime, Tyler died far after the incident occurred.

    Personal responsibility is important.
    As Ravi was not present he cannot be considered to be DIRAECTLY responsible.

    In addition, as I understand it, Tyler had only just recently came out . So , I believe it would be safe to assume he wasnt fully comfortable just yet with being out.

    Ravi , I think was more the straw that broke the camels back.

    Douchebag behaviour? Yes. Learned at home? probably. Heard on NPR last week about how homosexuality is seen as an abomination in India. So , learned attitudes strikes again.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    mickeyrat wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Of course he can ...
    If you expect Tyler to take responsibility we must have Ravi do the same for his part of this
    crime and the events he set in motion.

    If we do not we give all bullies the right of way to victimize, to cause anguish, to destroy lives
    and to condone this by saying the victim should have been stronger.
    Victims have basic rights ... the right to live their lives and not be victimized!

    Tyler had the right to privacy, the right to love whom he wanted without being chastised.

    Ravi caused the anguish that caused Tyler to take his life ...
    no different than a bank robber who causes someone to run in front of a car,
    they both indirectly took a life while committing a crime.
    And Ravi broke that, and was charged and convicted for it. He didn't take a life while committing a crime, Tyler died far after the incident occurred.

    Personal responsibility is important.
    As Ravi was not present he cannot be considered to be DIRAECTLY responsible.

    .
    And this is why I don't think he should be charged.

    Like I said, I think he's an ass, and his behaviour is inexcusable, but I think one should only be charged with the crime they commit, and not the subsequent events.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    I speak of personal responsibilities, not necessarily the law,
    justice was not had here.

    We all make choices everyday, we set in motion events for others based on these choices,
    good and bad even life and death. Nothing is random in that we are all connected,
    the choice you make today will be my affect tomorrow.

    The law is to protect against the ignorant that know not what they do or do not care
    how they affect others.

    We all agree Ravi's actions were immoral with him being called here many derogatory names.
    Where our opinions differ is if he should be held responsible for the action
    Tyler took as a result of the abuse.

    A couple of things influence my thinking, that is the new age of cyber bullying
    and the fact our right to privacy is being eroded in the social networks,
    some by personal choice, some we see, as in this case, not at all by choice,
    with grave consequences.

    This case is setting a precedence for future similar crime in the court room.

    The analogies of other crime scenarios I have given, show my opinion
    on our moral and legal responsibilities when we commit a crime
    that is further complicated by events set in motion by the original crime.

    The two are greatly linked...
    to create a victim with bullying then cause that victim to take action
    because of the abuse is entirely on the bully.
    Direct cause and effect.
    We have seen the horrendous actions of children being bullied a lifetime
    who then strike back at society. This snapping of the brain a direct result
    of constant abuse. We also see parents who abuse and bully and the consequences
    for the young brain there.

    It is a likely presumption to assume if Tyler had never been a victim of Ravi
    he would be playing his violin as we speak. A happy young man who had come to terms
    with who he was but whom fell prey to horrible peer abuse and subsequent shame.

    In my opinion Ravi should have been given a much stiffer penalty
    entirely based on the loss of life. There would lay the justice for the family
    and the life lost.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Post Deleted by Admin

    Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,394
    pandora wrote:
    should I be so bold as to say justice ...
    justice ... or hypocrisy. one of those two .... perhaps both.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    pandora wrote:
    We all make choices everyday, we set in motion events for others based on these choices, good and bad even life and death. Nothing is random in that we are all connected,
    the choice you make today will be my affect tomorrow.

    I love this. This is the same argument I always try to make when people claim that personal drug use doesn't affect anyone else.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Post deleted by Admin. Do not derail topic integrity.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    know1 wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    We all make choices everyday, we set in motion events for others based on these choices, good and bad even life and death. Nothing is random in that we are all connected,
    the choice you make today will be my affect tomorrow.

    I love this. This is the same argument I always try to make when people claim that personal drug use doesn't affect anyone else.
    it is us living life in my opinion
    we are responsible not only for ourselves but to each other,
    yes that includes what you mention here.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Post deleted by Admin
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    catefrances wrote:

    oh and now that youve brought it up id like to talk to you about your belief in the hereafter.. and i mean a genuine discussion cause it does interest me that someone who is not religious believes in an afterlife.. would you be willing to have such a discussion?

    That would be interesting, Catefrances. I'll watch for someone to start up such a thread (though I wonder how quickly it will cave in.)
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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