No need for such melodrama. Clementi's state of mind/actions before and after having knowledge of the spying have been documented (as has the extent of Ravi's spying)- no need for this kind of dramatic speculation. It does not add to a rational debate. The facts are sad enough, let's not dwell into some kind of pathos and sensationalism here (as it has been dealt with by a certain press - good headlines).
What did the other person in the filmed encounter do?
No mention of him.
Also, there are always two sides to a story. It is understood that things were tense between Ravi & Clementi from the beginning, Clementi having himself posted some 'not so nice' racial stereotyping regarding Ravi. Not excusing Ravi's actions at all, just saying ALL facts need to be looked at and one shouldn't 'idolise' one and vilify the other without these. After reviewing the facts, the courts decided that Ravi did not cause the suicide and thus this was not included in the charges. The judge had ALL the facts - not just sensational, attention grabbing headlines.
Yes, a young man is dead but that is not sensational at all. On the contrary. Sad and sobering.
It looks like this thread is spiralling into pathos and drama instead of debate.
What did the other person in the filmed encounter do?
He was another innocent victim...
we know he will also carry this a lifetime.
After the sentencing, Clementi's anonymous lover, who was spied on by Dharun Ravi, expressed his devastation at Tyler's tragic end, and said: 'Perhaps there had been something I could have done or said to him that would have changed the course of events.'
If Clementi was so ' broken' after this incident with Ravi, how could he go about his business, meet up with his friend again, obviously asking Ravi to vacate the room for this encounter, and just unplugging the' offensive' laptop? There is a lot more to Clementi that meets the eye but the press decided to make this a 'crusade' obviously the courts were privy to all of this and thus did not link the suicide to the spying. It would seem, from testimony , that Clementi was more angry than anything else.
This does not diminish the fact that a young man took his life but it was not directly due to Ravi's actions, as established by the courts who had the all the info necessary to make that call. Info that the general public does not have, thus it's all speculation.
As the hours passed, 48, it is very obvious that the humiliation,
shame and banishment from what Ravi did escalated.
Can one imagine the whispers?
Can one imagine the giggles? the looks, the stares?
Can one imagine the call out and fall out in the hours following?
Can we feel how alone Tyler must have felt?
Can we feelhowhe was made a terrible joke?
Can we feel the world he left?
It's the world Ravi created for Tyler when he made him his victim.
LOL... Come on now...
How are you measuring these "ripples"
Why is the last action/event more important than something that maybe happened earlier in his life, or growing up.
You can't point to one moment in time and blame those actions/event on a decision YOU make, this happened to be an irreversible decision HE made, no one made this decision but him...
People don't just flip a switch and commit suicide, Its usually something they have battled for a long time...
The only victim here is Tylers family...
As the hours passed, 48, it is very obvious that the humiliation,
shame and banishment from what Ravi did escalated.
Can one imagine the whispers?
Can one imagine the giggles? the looks, the stares?
Can one imagine the call out and fall out in the hours following?
Can we feel how alone Tyler must have felt?
Can we feelhowhe was made a terrible joke?
Can we feel the world he left?
It's the world Ravi created for Tyler when he made him his victim.
LOL... Come on now...
How are you measuring these "ripples"
Why is the last action/event more important than something that maybe happened earlier in his life, or growing up.
You can't point to one moment in time and blame those actions/event on a decision YOU make, this happened to be an irreversible decision HE made, no one made this decision but him...
People don't just flip a switch and commit suicide, Its usually something they have battled for a long time...
The only victim here is Tylers family...
No evidence of that, no prior suicide attempts or threats and considering his age
it is quite possible it was a gut reaction to becoming Ravi's victim, in my opinion.
I am sure his world looked very bleak after being victimized. Everywhere he turned
was talk of him and his sexuality.
It is important to try to stand in the child's shoes and feel what he was feeling
to understand. If anyone cares to.
As far as his family they are not forgiving Ravi ... they know he was the trigger.
No evidence of that, no prior suicide attempts or threats and considering his age
it is quite possible it was a gut reaction to becoming Ravi's victim, in my opinion.
I am sure his world looked very bleak after being victimized. Everywhere he turned
was talk of him and his sexuality.
It is important to try to stand in the child's shoes and feel what he was feeling
to understand. If anyone cares to.
As far as his family they are not forgiving Ravi ... they know he was the trigger.
There is no evidence of anything you speak of either. :fp:
As the hours passed, 48, it is very obvious that the humiliation,
shame and banishment from what Ravi did escalated.
Can one imagine the whispers?
Can one imagine the giggles? the looks, the stares?
Can one imagine the call out and fall out in the hours following?
Can we feel how alone Tyler must have felt?
Can we feelhowhe was made a terrible joke?
Can we feel the world he left?
It's the world Ravi created for Tyler when he made him his victim.
LOL... Come on now...
How are you measuring these "ripples"
Why is the last action/event more important than something that maybe happened earlier in his life, or growing up.
You can't point to one moment in time and blame those actions/event on a decision YOU make, this happened to be an irreversible decision HE made, no one made this decision but him...
People don't just flip a switch and commit suicide, Its usually something they have battled for a long time...
The only victim here is Tylers family...
No evidence of that, no prior suicide attempts or threats and considering his age
it is quite possible it was a gut reaction to becoming Ravi's victim, in my opinion.
I am sure his world looked very bleak after being victimized. Everywhere he turned
was talk of him and his sexuality.
It is important to try to stand in the child's shoes and feel what he was feeling
to understand. If anyone cares to.
As far as his family they are not forgiving Ravi ... they know he was the trigger.
So are you saying that the last person who inflicted those hurt feelings/sadness/depression on you are responsible for your suicide?
No evidence of that, no prior suicide attempts or threats and considering his age
it is quite possible it was a gut reaction to becoming Ravi's victim, in my opinion.
I am sure his world looked very bleak after being victimized. Everywhere he turned
was talk of him and his sexuality.
It is important to try to stand in the child's shoes and feel what he was feeling
to understand. If anyone cares to.
As far as his family they are not forgiving Ravi ... they know he was the trigger.
There is no evidence of anything you speak of either. :fp:
In my opinion common sense sees the direct connection / action reaction...
a group of events put into motion by Ravi victimizing Tyler.
Again the gauge of severity of bullying is the reaction of the victim
being made by the bully.
So are you saying that the last person who inflicted those hurt feelings/sadness/depression on you are responsible for your suicide?
Ravi committed a premeditated crime, through doing this he put in motion events that lead
to Tyler wanting to leave this world.
This is what I am saying.
I think your description should include but not be limited to...
humiliation, embarrassment, banishment, ostracization....
these much different than sadness, hurt feelings and depression, they are worlds apart.
Life and death different worlds.
As I said the gauge to the severity of bullying lies in the reaction of the victim made
by the bully.
I think this is very unfair Pandora. People react differently to things and its impossible to know a persons state of mind before or leading up to a suicide if they havent discussed their problems with a parent, relative, or professional. Many, many kids live lives very depressed and confused without anyone knowing about it. Something as small as shaving this kids head in his sleep (something that was done to me once) might have set him off, resulting in his suicide. It could've just been the thing to push him over the edge -- none of us knows whether or not he was stable prior to this.
I recall hearing somewhere that Tyler came out just before leaving for college and his mother was very disapproving of the fact that he was gay. That might have caused some problems for the boy. I simply irresponsible to say that Ravi's actions were the ONLY reason Tyler is dead. Its impossible to know for sure.
As I said the gauge to the severity of bullying lies in the reaction of the victim made
by the bully.
I think this is very unfair Pandora. People react differently to things and its impossible to know a persons state of mind before or leading up to a suicide if they havent discussed their problems with a parent, relative, or professional. Many, many kids live lives very depressed and confused without anyone knowing about it. Something as small as shaving this kids head in his sleep (something that was done to me once) might have set him off, resulting in his suicide. It could've just been the thing to push him over the edge -- none of us knows whether or not he was stable prior to this.
I recall hearing somewhere that Tyler came out just before leaving for college and his mother was very disapproving of the fact that he was gay. That might have caused some problems for the boy. I simply irresponsible to say that Ravi's actions were the ONLY reason Tyler is dead. Its impossible to know for sure.
I don't think I ever said only :?
Ravi's illegal victimizing was a direct cause for Tyler needing and wanting to leave this world,
in my opinion.
When a bully makes a victim they are changing that person's world forever.
We are accountable,responsible, all connected and can not know how someone will react
to being victimized. A very good reason why no one should victimize another.
Ravi made a choice to to do so with grave consequences.
As I said the gauge to the severity of bullying lies in the reaction of the victim made
by the bully.
I think this is very unfair Pandora. People react differently to things and its impossible to know a persons state of mind before or leading up to a suicide if they havent discussed their problems with a parent, relative, or professional. Many, many kids live lives very depressed and confused without anyone knowing about it. Something as small as shaving this kids head in his sleep (something that was done to me once) might have set him off, resulting in his suicide. It could've just been the thing to push him over the edge -- none of us knows whether or not he was stable prior to this.
I recall hearing somewhere that Tyler came out just before leaving for college and his mother was very disapproving of the fact that he was gay. That might have caused some problems for the boy. I simply irresponsible to say that Ravi's actions were the ONLY reason Tyler is dead. Its impossible to know for sure.
I don't think I ever said only :?
Ravi's illegal victimizing was a direct cause for Tyler needing and wanting to leave this world,
in my opinion.
When a bully makes a victim they are changing that person's world forever.
We are accountable,responsible, all connected and can not know how someone will react
to being victimized. A very good reason why no one should victimize another.
Ravi made a choice to to do so with grave consequences.
So a wife cheats on her husband, which causes the husband to kill their kids and himself, your saying the wife (bully) who victimized her husband is responsible for the children and husbands deaths? :roll:
You state in your 2nd last sentence "we are all accountable,responsible"
Yet you blame a guy killing him self, on someone else...
Your just justifying every single bad decision ever made...
This is the kind of thinking children have... "he made me do it"
for me, the dick who webcast his roomie set something in motion, therefore should suffer the consequences of his actions....
who knows if the kid who killed himself would be alive today if this incident didn't happen...fact is, the victim of a crime is dead and it happened shortly after the incident...call it bad timing if you want, the law has spoken and the fucker is going to clink for 30....I guess if he would have left his roommate alone, we wouldn't be discussing this...
I hope he enjoys his 30 days...
as an aside...I find it sad that folks here are attempting to defend ravi....but that's just me...anyhoo "harmless pranks" aren't always harmless...
as an aside...I find it sad that folks here are attempting to defend ravi....but that's just me...anyhoo "harmless pranks" aren't always harmless...
I think its pretty safe to say that everyone here despises what Ravi did and wish the whole scenario never happened. I don't see anyone defending his actions. I think some are simply saying that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime that he was convicted of because you cant speculate how someone will react to a crime, and that's how the law and the courts saw it too.
So a wife cheats on her husband, which causes the husband to kill their kids and himself, your saying the wife (bully) who victimized her husband is responsible for the children and husbands deaths? :roll:
You state in your 2nd last sentence "we are all accountable,responsible"
Yet you blame a guy killing him self, on someone else...
Your just justifying every single bad decision ever made...
This is the kind of thinking children have... "he made me do it"
So we think cheating is now a crime? :?
Ravi committed a calculated premeditated crime on a another person which resulted
in that person taking their life. He set in motion events to cause public
humiliation, he made Tyler his victim by public bullying.
I would have to say your analogy just doesn't fit.
Why do you suppose the wife cheated?
Being in a highly personal relationship with vows made to each other.
Do you think she will be without guilt?
You bring in the loss of life of the children not a suicide so who's the real bully
here ... the husband I would think. He committed murder! :fp:
And yes we are all connected responsible to each other.
Ravi did not feel this when he made a victim of Tyler, he felt something entirely different,
something pretty ugly. It is this motive of his that I address.
as an aside...I find it sad that folks here are attempting to defend ravi....but that's just me...anyhoo "harmless pranks" aren't always harmless...
I don't see anyone defending his actions. I think some are simply saying that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime that he was convicted of because you cant speculate how someone will react to a crime, and that's how the law and the courts saw it too.
I think its pretty safe to say that everyone here despises what Ravi did and wish the whole scenario never happened.
who knows if the kid who killed himself would be alive today if this incident didn't happen.
by saying "that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime" sounds like you're giving Ravi a pass....at least to me...
fact is the kid is dead...fact is Ravi did something shortly before the kid died...for me that's enough facts....for you, I guess not...and that's ok with me... but no one is going to convince me that Ravi didn't have a part to play in this fella's death...
I wish I could say "I bet you my next paycheck that this kid would still be alive if Ravi hadn't secretly broadcast him and is consenting lover"...sadly, we will never know...you know, because the kid is dead...
as an aside...I find it sad that folks here are attempting to defend ravi....but that's just me...anyhoo "harmless pranks" aren't always harmless...
I don't see anyone defending his actions. I think some are simply saying that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime that he was convicted of because you cant speculate how someone will react to a crime, and that's how the law and the courts saw it too.
I think its pretty safe to say that everyone here despises what Ravi did and wish the whole scenario never happened.
who knows if the kid who killed himself would be alive today if this incident didn't happen.
by saying "that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime" sounds like you're giving Ravi a pass....at least to me...
fact is the kid is dead...fact is Ravi did something shortly before the kid died...for me that's enough facts....for you, I guess not...and that's ok with me... but no one is going to convince me otherwise...
I wish I could say "I bet you my next paycheck that this kid would still be alive if Ravi hadn't secretly broadcast him and is consenting lover"...sadly, we will never know...you know, because the kid is dead...
I agree with you that its extremely likely that Ravi's actions led to this suicide, but my point is that you cannot prove this kind of thing in a court of law. Its simply impossible. I'm not giving the guy a pass. I think he should serve a heavier sentence for his crime. But I dont think a person can be held accountable for something that happens days later -- it sets a precedent..What if the suicide happened two weeks later? Would it still be Ravi's fault? if you can convict someone based on someones reaction days, weeks, or even months later, people will be falsely convicted all over the place.
I think severity/punishment of bullying and the actual hate crimes should be considered the problem here.
as an aside...I find it sad that folks here are attempting to defend ravi....but that's just me...anyhoo "harmless pranks" aren't always harmless...
I don't see anyone defending his actions. I think some are simply saying that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime that he was convicted of because you cant speculate how someone will react to a crime, and that's how the law and the courts saw it too.
I think its pretty safe to say that everyone here despises what Ravi did and wish the whole scenario never happened.
who knows if the kid who killed himself would be alive today if this incident didn't happen.
Why would we assume he would be dead? I assume just the opposite.
He was a vibrant talented young man beginning his life.
And if another case and another case and another case of cyber bullying results in death
will we then think oh well maybe just maybe it is the bullying that is causing
people to want to leave this world.
We all know what bullying does to a child, others have hung themselves
taken pills, driven cars into trees ...
it is no different here yet some want to argue
it is not proof enough that the hell the bully made caused the victim
to want to die.
It may not be proof enough in a courtroom as of yet but we all know
what bully's do and what they cause.
as an aside...I find it sad that folks here are attempting to defend ravi....but that's just me...anyhoo "harmless pranks" aren't always harmless...
I don't see anyone defending his actions. I think some are simply saying that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime that he was convicted of because you cant speculate how someone will react to a crime, and that's how the law and the courts saw it too.
I think its pretty safe to say that everyone here despises what Ravi did and wish the whole scenario never happened.
who knows if the kid who killed himself would be alive today if this incident didn't happen.
by saying "that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime" sounds like you're giving Ravi a pass....at least to me...
fact is the kid is dead...fact is Ravi did something shortly before the kid died...for me that's enough facts....for you, I guess not...and that's ok with me... but no one is going to convince me that Ravi didn't have a part to play in this fella's death...
I wish I could say "I bet you my next paycheck that this kid would still be alive if Ravi hadn't secretly broadcast him and is consenting lover"...sadly, we will never know...you know, because the kid is dead...
You people are making this to confusing.
Ravi, nor his actions killed this kid...
Tyler killed himself, no one forced him...
I agree with you that its extremely likely that Ravi's actions led to this suicide, but my point is that you cannot prove this kind of thing in a court of law. Its simply impossible. I'm not giving the guy a pass. I think he should serve a heavier sentence for his crime. But I dont think a person can be held accountable for something that happens days later -- it sets a precedent..What if the suicide happened two weeks later? Would it still be Ravi's fault? if you can convict someone based on someones reaction days, weeks, or even months later, people will be falsely convicted all over the place.
I think severity/punishment of bullying and the actual hate crimes should be considered the problem here.
I wish I could answer your questions...but I can't...no one can...
I understand your concerns for precedent...but I'm concerned about this case and that's what I'm basing my opinion on...
I know I keep going back to this....if Ravi had not done what he did...would be talking about this....? I'm pretty sure the answer would be "no"...
as I see it, he pushed Tyler over the edge....he provided the final straw...he should spend some time in jail....
You people are making this to confusing.
Ravi, nor his actions killed this kid...
Tyler killed himself, no one forced him...
I say Ravi's actions played a part in Tyler's death....
you say otherwise....
sounds like we disagree....hope that's ok...
Sure, as long as you are ready to bear the responsibility that anything you say to someone, you are inevitably responsible for their following actions, and if their action turns out to be suicide, then you my friend are responsible for their death...
You people are making this to confusing.
Ravi, nor his actions killed this kid...
Tyler killed himself, no one forced him...
I say Ravi's actions played a part in Tyler's death....
you say otherwise....
sounds like we disagree....hope that's ok...
Sure, as long as you are ready to bear the responsibility that anything you say to someone, you are inevitably responsible for their following actions, and if their action turns out to be suicide, then you my friend are responsible for their death...
now we have rules to follow if we disagree...that's weird....
anyway....Ravi didn't "say" anything....he "did" something....do you understand the difference...?
I agree with you that its extremely likely that Ravi's actions led to this suicide, but my point is that you cannot prove this kind of thing in a court of law. Its simply impossible. I'm not giving the guy a pass. I think he should serve a heavier sentence for his crime. But I dont think a person can be held accountable for something that happens days later -- it sets a precedent..What if the suicide happened two weeks later? Would it still be Ravi's fault? if you can convict someone based on someones reaction days, weeks, or even months later, people will be falsely convicted all over the place.
I think severity/punishment of bullying and the actual hate crimes should be considered the problem here.
I wish I could answer your questions...but I can't...no one can...
I understand your concerns for precedent...but I'm concerned about this case and that's what I'm basing my opinion on...
I know I keep going back to this....if Ravi had not done what he did...would be talking about this....? I'm pretty sure the answer would be "no"...
as I see it, he pushed Tyler over the edge....he provided the final straw...he should spend some time in jail....
How are you measuring these straws? why is one more important than the other?
You shouldn't try so hard to justify somone committing suicide...
Sure, as long as you are ready to bear the responsibility that anything you say to someone, you are inevitably responsible for their following actions, and if their action turns out to be suicide, then you my friend are responsible for their death...
now we have rules to follow if we disagree...that's weird....
anyway....Ravi didn't "say" anything....he "did" something....do you understand the difference...?[/quote]
No rules, just trying to figure out why your trying to blame people when someone decides to KILL THEMSELF.
Seems like its pretty simple to understand.
I guess I'll just blame everything I do, on someone else...
I'll say it again, this is how kids reason - "he made me do it"
At what point are you not responsible for your OWN ACTIONS, especially KILLING YOURSELF
Sure, as long as you are ready to bear the responsibility that anything you DO to someone, you are inevitably responsible for their following actions, and if their action turns out to be suicide, then you my friend are responsible for their death...
Comments
As the hours passed, 48, it is very obvious that the humiliation,
shame and banishment from what Ravi did escalated.
Can one imagine the whispers?
Can one imagine the giggles? the looks, the stares?
Can one imagine the call out and fall out in the hours following?
Can we feel how alone Tyler must have felt?
Can we feel how he was made a terrible joke?
Can we feel the world he left?
It's the world Ravi created for Tyler when he made him his victim.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I find that horrific and feel it deeply.
As I said the gauge to the severity of bullying lies in the reaction of the victim made
by the bully.
Ravi made Tyler a victim.
No mention of him.
Also, there are always two sides to a story. It is understood that things were tense between Ravi & Clementi from the beginning, Clementi having himself posted some 'not so nice' racial stereotyping regarding Ravi. Not excusing Ravi's actions at all, just saying ALL facts need to be looked at and one shouldn't 'idolise' one and vilify the other without these. After reviewing the facts, the courts decided that Ravi did not cause the suicide and thus this was not included in the charges. The judge had ALL the facts - not just sensational, attention grabbing headlines.
Yes, a young man is dead but that is not sensational at all. On the contrary. Sad and sobering.
It looks like this thread is spiralling into pathos and drama instead of debate.
He was another innocent victim...
we know he will also carry this a lifetime.
After the sentencing, Clementi's anonymous lover, who was spied on by Dharun Ravi, expressed his devastation at Tyler's tragic end, and said: 'Perhaps there had been something I could have done or said to him that would have changed the course of events.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... pying.html
How are you measuring these "ripples"
Why is the last action/event more important than something that maybe happened earlier in his life, or growing up.
You can't point to one moment in time and blame those actions/event on a decision YOU make, this happened to be an irreversible decision HE made, no one made this decision but him...
People don't just flip a switch and commit suicide, Its usually something they have battled for a long time...
The only victim here is Tylers family...
it is quite possible it was a gut reaction to becoming Ravi's victim, in my opinion.
I am sure his world looked very bleak after being victimized. Everywhere he turned
was talk of him and his sexuality.
It is important to try to stand in the child's shoes and feel what he was feeling
to understand. If anyone cares to.
As far as his family they are not forgiving Ravi ... they know he was the trigger.
a group of events put into motion by Ravi victimizing Tyler.
Again the gauge of severity of bullying is the reaction of the victim
being made by the bully.
to Tyler wanting to leave this world.
This is what I am saying.
I think your description should include but not be limited to...
humiliation, embarrassment, banishment, ostracization....
these much different than sadness, hurt feelings and depression, they are worlds apart.
Life and death different worlds.
I think this is very unfair Pandora. People react differently to things and its impossible to know a persons state of mind before or leading up to a suicide if they havent discussed their problems with a parent, relative, or professional. Many, many kids live lives very depressed and confused without anyone knowing about it. Something as small as shaving this kids head in his sleep (something that was done to me once) might have set him off, resulting in his suicide. It could've just been the thing to push him over the edge -- none of us knows whether or not he was stable prior to this.
I recall hearing somewhere that Tyler came out just before leaving for college and his mother was very disapproving of the fact that he was gay. That might have caused some problems for the boy. I simply irresponsible to say that Ravi's actions were the ONLY reason Tyler is dead. Its impossible to know for sure.
Ravi's illegal victimizing was a direct cause for Tyler needing and wanting to leave this world,
in my opinion.
When a bully makes a victim they are changing that person's world forever.
We are accountable,responsible, all connected and can not know how someone will react
to being victimized. A very good reason why no one should victimize another.
Ravi made a choice to to do so with grave consequences.
You state in your 2nd last sentence "we are all accountable,responsible"
Yet you blame a guy killing him self, on someone else...
Your just justifying every single bad decision ever made...
This is the kind of thinking children have... "he made me do it"
for me, the dick who webcast his roomie set something in motion, therefore should suffer the consequences of his actions....
who knows if the kid who killed himself would be alive today if this incident didn't happen...fact is, the victim of a crime is dead and it happened shortly after the incident...call it bad timing if you want, the law has spoken and the fucker is going to clink for 30....I guess if he would have left his roommate alone, we wouldn't be discussing this...
I hope he enjoys his 30 days...
as an aside...I find it sad that folks here are attempting to defend ravi....but that's just me...anyhoo "harmless pranks" aren't always harmless...
I think its pretty safe to say that everyone here despises what Ravi did and wish the whole scenario never happened. I don't see anyone defending his actions. I think some are simply saying that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime that he was convicted of because you cant speculate how someone will react to a crime, and that's how the law and the courts saw it too.
You said it yourself:
So we think cheating is now a crime? :?
Ravi committed a calculated premeditated crime on a another person which resulted
in that person taking their life. He set in motion events to cause public
humiliation, he made Tyler his victim by public bullying.
I would have to say your analogy just doesn't fit.
Why do you suppose the wife cheated?
Being in a highly personal relationship with vows made to each other.
Do you think she will be without guilt?
You bring in the loss of life of the children not a suicide so who's the real bully
here ... the husband I would think. He committed murder! :fp:
And yes we are all connected responsible to each other.
Ravi did not feel this when he made a victim of Tyler, he felt something entirely different,
something pretty ugly. It is this motive of his that I address.
by saying "that you can't bring additional severity to the punishment because of the reaction to the crime" sounds like you're giving Ravi a pass....at least to me...
fact is the kid is dead...fact is Ravi did something shortly before the kid died...for me that's enough facts....for you, I guess not...and that's ok with me... but no one is going to convince me that Ravi didn't have a part to play in this fella's death...
I wish I could say "I bet you my next paycheck that this kid would still be alive if Ravi hadn't secretly broadcast him and is consenting lover"...sadly, we will never know...you know, because the kid is dead...
I agree with you that its extremely likely that Ravi's actions led to this suicide, but my point is that you cannot prove this kind of thing in a court of law. Its simply impossible. I'm not giving the guy a pass. I think he should serve a heavier sentence for his crime. But I dont think a person can be held accountable for something that happens days later -- it sets a precedent..What if the suicide happened two weeks later? Would it still be Ravi's fault? if you can convict someone based on someones reaction days, weeks, or even months later, people will be falsely convicted all over the place.
I think severity/punishment of bullying and the actual hate crimes should be considered the problem here.
He was a vibrant talented young man beginning his life.
And if another case and another case and another case of cyber bullying results in death
will we then think oh well maybe just maybe it is the bullying that is causing
people to want to leave this world.
We all know what bullying does to a child, others have hung themselves
taken pills, driven cars into trees ...
it is no different here yet some want to argue
it is not proof enough that the hell the bully made caused the victim
to want to die.
It may not be proof enough in a courtroom as of yet but we all know
what bully's do and what they cause.
Ravi, nor his actions killed this kid...
Tyler killed himself, no one forced him...
I say Ravi's actions played a part in Tyler's death....
you say otherwise....
sounds like we disagree....hope that's ok...
I wish I could answer your questions...but I can't...no one can...
I understand your concerns for precedent...but I'm concerned about this case and that's what I'm basing my opinion on...
I know I keep going back to this....if Ravi had not done what he did...would be talking about this....? I'm pretty sure the answer would be "no"...
as I see it, he pushed Tyler over the edge....he provided the final straw...he should spend some time in jail....
now we have rules to follow if we disagree...that's weird....
anyway....Ravi didn't "say" anything....he "did" something....do you understand the difference...?
You shouldn't try so hard to justify somone committing suicide...
now we have rules to follow if we disagree...that's weird....
anyway....Ravi didn't "say" anything....he "did" something....do you understand the difference...?[/quote]
No rules, just trying to figure out why your trying to blame people when someone decides to KILL THEMSELF.
Seems like its pretty simple to understand.
I guess I'll just blame everything I do, on someone else...
I'll say it again, this is how kids reason - "he made me do it"
At what point are you not responsible for your OWN ACTIONS, especially KILLING YOURSELF
Sure, as long as you are ready to bear the responsibility that anything you DO to someone, you are inevitably responsible for their following actions, and if their action turns out to be suicide, then you my friend are responsible for their death...