Rutgers student gets 30-day jail sentence in hate crime case

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  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Jason P wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    In my opinion how can anyone say sorry I taped you having sex and showed it to the world :?

    opps shouldn't have done that ... just wasn't thinking :fp:

    NO! Ravi was calculating, his crime premeditated, his motive
    mass humiliation based on sexual preference. He intended to hurt Tyler and change his life,
    boy did he do that.
    He didn't tape it. Two people saw it for less then five seconds. Review the evidence.
    Pardon me webcast ...
    and the motive remains the same

    edit...
    "Evidence has shown that not only did Ravi set out to tape the encounters, but he encouraged others to join in the viewing as well. Evidence has also shown that Tyler was uncomfortable enough with Ravi’s blatant display of homophobia that he asked for a room change days before committing suicide. And perhaps the most damming evidence of all is that Ravi tweeted two days before Tyler’s death “Roommate asked for the room til midnight. I went into Molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay!""

    I guess others call it taping too ;)
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,808
    pandora wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    Referring to the 'Just being a kid.... ' thread where 'excuses' were being made for Romney bullying and cutting off Lauber's hair because he was 'different'. Should there have been mobile phones with cameras and social networking at that time, would his bullying/holding down Lauber and chopping the hair off been recorded and broadcast? I would say most probably. And yet people dismiss this as a 'prank' like a lot of kids get up to.
    OK - so this Lauber person may have been 'stronger' and did not commit suicide days after the 'prank' (though we don't know if Ravi's 'prank' is the cause of the suicide), but could Ravi's actions not be compared to Romney's in his youth? So one 'dismisses' Romney's physical attack on a homosexual as a prank but Ravi's deed is seen as some very vile hate crime? Just saying....
    I guess one could compare but cutting one's hair is not so much a crime,
    I think many would classify that more as a prank.

    Ravi taping and sharing publicly intimate sexual moments is not a prank it is a crime
    and is immoral. The level he went to to banish and humiliate is in a entirely different league.
    I also believe the era that both events happened needs to be considered. In this day and time
    Ravi should have known better.
    in the eyes of the law the hair cutting could be considered assault and battery.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    pandora wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    In my opinion how can anyone say sorry I taped you having sex and showed it to the world :?

    opps shouldn't have done that ... just wasn't thinking :fp:

    NO! Ravi was calculating, his crime premeditated, his motive
    mass humiliation based on sexual preference. He intended to hurt Tyler and change his life,
    boy did he do that.
    He didn't tape it. Two people saw it for less then five seconds. Review the evidence.
    Pardon me webcast ...
    and the motive remains the same

    edit...
    "Evidence has shown that not only did Ravi set out to tape the encounters, but he encouraged others to join in the viewing as well. Evidence has also shown that Tyler was uncomfortable enough with Ravi’s blatant display of homophobia that he asked for a room change days before committing suicide. And perhaps the most damming evidence of all is that Ravi tweeted two days before Tyler’s death “Roommate asked for the room til midnight. I went into Molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay!""

    I guess others call it taping too ;)
    Did he tape it? Did others watch it?

    No and no.

    If I tweeted I was going to marry Angelina Jolie, does that mean we are married?

    (there is still time. I just need to contact Ravi and have him deal with this "Brad" issue. Apparently he is a criminal mastermind with no equal ;) )
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Oh look... a couple of different sources:

    "But as testimony during Ravi's trial has confirmed, there was no sex tape, and the images were never available to the general public. On the evening of September 19, 2010, Ravi set the webcam on his computer to automatically accept video chats, then went across the hall to a friend's room, where they saw a few seconds of Clementi and his visitor kissing, fully clothed, before shutting off the feed. The images were not recorded, and they were not transmitted anywhere except across the hall. "

    "Editor's Note: This column has been updated to reflect that Dharun Ravi streamed the video of Tyler Clementi. He did not tape it."

    Testimony/court evidence is a bit more reliable than sensationalist journalism. When you have celebrities (Degeneres) claiming that Clementi "was outed as being gay on the Internet and he killed himself.." doesn't help at all. Clementi was not outed as he was not hiding anything. Thus this 'being mortified of being outed then committing suicide' doesn't stand. Probably why Clementi's suicide was not considered in the charges.

    This said, it doesn't make Ravi's actions any better but let's just get some basic facts right to try and better understand the issue.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Jason P wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    He didn't tape it. Two people saw it for less then five seconds. Review the evidence.
    Pardon me webcast ...
    and the motive remains the same

    edit...
    "Evidence has shown that not only did Ravi set out to tape the encounters, but he encouraged others to join in the viewing as well. Evidence has also shown that Tyler was uncomfortable enough with Ravi’s blatant display of homophobia that he asked for a room change days before committing suicide. And perhaps the most damming evidence of all is that Ravi tweeted two days before Tyler’s death “Roommate asked for the room til midnight. I went into Molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay!""

    I guess others call it taping too ;)
    Did he tape it? Did others watch it?

    No and no.

    If I tweeted I was going to marry Angelina Jolie, does that mean we are married?

    (there is still time. I just need to contact Ravi and have him deal with this "Brad" issue. Apparently he is a criminal mastermind with no equal ;) )

    A young man is dead....

    An attitude of making a bully's actions smaller, incidental, less serious
    allows bullies to bully in our society.

    As I mentioned before everyone has the right to live their lives NOT as a victim of another.

    The gauge to severity of bullying is how the victim who is made by the bully...
    reacts.


    Tyler would not have been a victim if not for Ravi and he would be playing his violin
    today.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    mickeyrat wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    Referring to the 'Just being a kid.... ' thread where 'excuses' were being made for Romney bullying and cutting off Lauber's hair because he was 'different'. Should there have been mobile phones with cameras and social networking at that time, would his bullying/holding down Lauber and chopping the hair off been recorded and broadcast? I would say most probably. And yet people dismiss this as a 'prank' like a lot of kids get up to.
    OK - so this Lauber person may have been 'stronger' and did not commit suicide days after the 'prank' (though we don't know if Ravi's 'prank' is the cause of the suicide), but could Ravi's actions not be compared to Romney's in his youth? So one 'dismisses' Romney's physical attack on a homosexual as a prank but Ravi's deed is seen as some very vile hate crime? Just saying....
    I guess one could compare but cutting one's hair is not so much a crime,
    I think many would classify that more as a prank.

    Ravi taping and sharing publicly intimate sexual moments is not a prank it is a crime
    and is immoral. The level he went to to banish and humiliate is in a entirely different league.
    I also believe the era that both events happened needs to be considered. In this day and time
    Ravi should have known better.
    in the eyes of the law the hair cutting could be considered assault and battery.
    I thought that could be the case.... A criminal matter as well. Just different type of charge.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I guess one could compare but cutting one's hair is not so much a crime,
    I think many would classify that more as a prank.

    Ravi taping and sharing publicly intimate sexual moments is not a prank it is a crime
    and is immoral. The level he went to to banish and humiliate is in a entirely different league.
    I also believe the era that both events happened needs to be considered. In this day and time
    Ravi should have known better.
    in the eyes of the law the hair cutting could be considered assault and battery.
    I thought that could be the case.... A criminal matter as well. Just different type of charge.
    I could be wrong but back in the era that Romney did this, I don't think that would hold as an
    assault and battery charge, maybe today it would though.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    pandora wrote:
    A young man is dead....

    An attitude of making a bully's actions smaller, incidental, less serious
    allows bullies to bully in our society.

    As I mentioned before everyone has the right to live their lives NOT as a victim of another.

    The gauge to severity of bullying is how the victim who is made by the bully...
    reacts.


    Tyler would not have been a victim if not for Ravi and he would be playing his violin
    today.
    Yet you have no problem if "justice" was done by the act of Ravi killing himself due to the same methods you describe above?

    All I know is that you seem to know a lot more about the situation then I do. You must have a very large magic 8-ball to be able to peer into the mind of a dead person.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Jason P wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    A young man is dead....

    An attitude of making a bully's actions smaller, incidental, less serious
    allows bullies to bully in our society.

    As I mentioned before everyone has the right to live their lives NOT as a victim of another.

    The gauge to severity of bullying is how the victim who is made by the bully...
    reacts.


    Tyler would not have been a victim if not for Ravi and he would be playing his violin
    today.
    Yet you have no problem if "justice" was done by the act of Ravi killing himself due to the same methods you describe above?

    All I know is that you seem to know a lot more about the situation then I do. You must have a very large magic 8-ball to be able to peer into the mind of a dead person.
    That remark as to justice I am a believer in karma and was really thinking that
    and should have said that... it better explains my feelings.

    It is for me a one plus one... two days later Tyler was dead.

    If this horrific incident that Ravi created had not happened
    it is fair to say that day
    Tyler would not have taken his own life.

    The young, a tender 18 years old, impressionable often unable to see to the future.
    They often live in the day thinking the hell will not go away.
    This hell Ravi made for Tyler he succumbed to.

    If you think understanding is a magic 8 ball, so be it.
    It seems so easy to understand this young man and his loss. His loss.
    He was stripped down, humiliated, broken and didn't want to be himself any more.
    This a direct result of what Ravi did to him.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    If Clementi was so ' broken' after this incident with Ravi, how could he go about his business, meet up with his friend again, obviously asking Ravi to vacate the room for this encounter, and just unplugging the' offensive' laptop? There is a lot more to Clementi that meets the eye but the press decided to make this a 'crusade' obviously the courts were privy to all of this and thus did not link the suicide to the spying. It would seem, from testimony , that Clementi was more angry than anything else.

    This does not diminish the fact that a young man took his life but it was not directly due to Ravi's actions, as established by the courts who had the all the info necessary to make that call. Info that the general public does not have, thus it's all speculation.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Throw a pebble in a pond you get ripples.

    As the hours passed, 48, it is very obvious that the humiliation,
    shame and banishment from what Ravi did escalated.

    Can one imagine the whispers?
    Can one imagine the giggles? the looks, the stares?
    Can one imagine the call out and fall out in the hours following?

    Can we feel how alone Tyler must have felt?
    Can we feel how he was made a terrible joke?
    Can we feel the world he left?

    It's the world Ravi created for Tyler when he made him his victim.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    No need for such melodrama. Clementi's state of mind/actions before and after having knowledge of the spying have been documented (as has the extent of Ravi's spying)- no need for this kind of dramatic speculation. It does not add to a rational debate. The facts are sad enough, let's not dwell into some kind of pathos and sensationalism here (as it has been dealt with by a certain press - good headlines).
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    What did the other person in the filmed encounter do?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    edited May 2012
    A boy lost his life I find that very important, even dramatic and sensational,
    I find that horrific and feel it deeply.

    As I said the gauge to the severity of bullying lies in the reaction of the victim made
    by the bully.

    Ravi made Tyler a victim.
    Post edited by pandora on
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    know1 wrote:
    What did the other person in the filmed encounter do?

    No mention of him.

    Also, there are always two sides to a story. It is understood that things were tense between Ravi & Clementi from the beginning, Clementi having himself posted some 'not so nice' racial stereotyping regarding Ravi. Not excusing Ravi's actions at all, just saying ALL facts need to be looked at and one shouldn't 'idolise' one and vilify the other without these. After reviewing the facts, the courts decided that Ravi did not cause the suicide and thus this was not included in the charges. The judge had ALL the facts - not just sensational, attention grabbing headlines.

    Yes, a young man is dead but that is not sensational at all. On the contrary. Sad and sobering.

    It looks like this thread is spiralling into pathos and drama instead of debate.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    know1 wrote:
    What did the other person in the filmed encounter do?

    He was another innocent victim...

    we know he will also carry this a lifetime.


    After the sentencing, Clementi's anonymous lover, who was spied on by Dharun Ravi, expressed his devastation at Tyler's tragic end, and said: 'Perhaps there had been something I could have done or said to him that would have changed the course of events.'


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... pying.html
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    redrock wrote:
    If Clementi was so ' broken' after this incident with Ravi, how could he go about his business, meet up with his friend again, obviously asking Ravi to vacate the room for this encounter, and just unplugging the' offensive' laptop? There is a lot more to Clementi that meets the eye but the press decided to make this a 'crusade' obviously the courts were privy to all of this and thus did not link the suicide to the spying. It would seem, from testimony , that Clementi was more angry than anything else.

    This does not diminish the fact that a young man took his life but it was not directly due to Ravi's actions, as established by the courts who had the all the info necessary to make that call. Info that the general public does not have, thus it's all speculation.
    That's what I don't get.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    pandora wrote:
    Throw a pebble in a pond you get ripples.

    As the hours passed, 48, it is very obvious that the humiliation,
    shame and banishment from what Ravi did escalated.

    Can one imagine the whispers?
    Can one imagine the giggles? the looks, the stares?
    Can one imagine the call out and fall out in the hours following?

    Can we feel how alone Tyler must have felt?
    Can we feel how he was made a terrible joke?
    Can we feel the world he left?

    It's the world Ravi created for Tyler when he made him his victim.
    LOL... Come on now...
    How are you measuring these "ripples"
    Why is the last action/event more important than something that maybe happened earlier in his life, or growing up.
    You can't point to one moment in time and blame those actions/event on a decision YOU make, this happened to be an irreversible decision HE made, no one made this decision but him...
    People don't just flip a switch and commit suicide, Its usually something they have battled for a long time...
    The only victim here is Tylers family...
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Blockhead wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Throw a pebble in a pond you get ripples.

    As the hours passed, 48, it is very obvious that the humiliation,
    shame and banishment from what Ravi did escalated.

    Can one imagine the whispers?
    Can one imagine the giggles? the looks, the stares?
    Can one imagine the call out and fall out in the hours following?

    Can we feel how alone Tyler must have felt?
    Can we feel how he was made a terrible joke?
    Can we feel the world he left?

    It's the world Ravi created for Tyler when he made him his victim.
    LOL... Come on now...
    How are you measuring these "ripples"
    Why is the last action/event more important than something that maybe happened earlier in his life, or growing up.
    You can't point to one moment in time and blame those actions/event on a decision YOU make, this happened to be an irreversible decision HE made, no one made this decision but him...
    People don't just flip a switch and commit suicide, Its usually something they have battled for a long time...
    The only victim here is Tylers family...
    No evidence of that, no prior suicide attempts or threats and considering his age
    it is quite possible it was a gut reaction to becoming Ravi's victim, in my opinion.

    I am sure his world looked very bleak after being victimized. Everywhere he turned
    was talk of him and his sexuality.

    It is important to try to stand in the child's shoes and feel what he was feeling
    to understand. If anyone cares to.

    As far as his family they are not forgiving Ravi ... they know he was the trigger.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    pandora wrote:
    No evidence of that, no prior suicide attempts or threats and considering his age
    it is quite possible it was a gut reaction to becoming Ravi's victim, in my opinion.

    I am sure his world looked very bleak after being victimized. Everywhere he turned
    was talk of him and his sexuality.

    It is important to try to stand in the child's shoes and feel what he was feeling
    to understand. If anyone cares to.

    As far as his family they are not forgiving Ravi ... they know he was the trigger.
    There is no evidence of anything you speak of either. :fp:
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!

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