Trayvon Martin

AllNiteThing wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

AllNiteThing wrote:

We don't know and the media shouldn't be running the trial. Zimmerman needs to be arrested and charged with something. Involuntary manslaughter, murder, whatever. Let the legal system play out. It amazes me that someone can be free after killing someone with a gun and not at least go to trial. Whether he's guilty of wrongdoing or not isn't up to us and the media to decide. It's up to a court.

Well I can't quite agree with this. In clear cases of self-defense where someone killed someone else with a gun, they should not have to go to trial. It's just that in this case it is NOT a clear case of self-defense (plus that stand your ground law is RIDICULOUS, but even so, I don't called following someone around with a gun without even being threatened falls under standing your ground anyway).

Aside from killing an intrude in your home, I would think nearly all cases should go through a court of law. Even an intruder in your home, someone could fabricate a story and who is it that makes the judgment call? Some cops? When it involves the death of another human, I don't think we can afford to make discretionary judgment calls at the scene like that.

Monster Rain wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

I'm still waiting for anyone to show me any evidence that Zimmerman kept following Martin after the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that," and Zimmerman replied, "Ok." You might think he may have kept following him, but that's just a guess at best. Stating it as if it's a known fact is irresponsible until there is actual proof that it happened.

Well since what I think has no impact at all on the case or anyone involved, I don't see what's irresponsible about it. Hey, I don't even think he should have been out there with a gun at all, and that THAT is what's irresponsible and what lead to this whole thing, so...

If it had no impact at all on the case, why say, "The point is Zimmerman shouldn't have been stalking Trayvon with a gun against the advice of police?" You even called it "the main issue" in an earlier post and implied that Zimmerman was following Martin at gunpoint. That's the first I've heard about the gun being pointed at Marting prior to its use during the fight.

When you say that Zimmerman followed Marting against the advice of the police you're repeating the media-created version of events that says Zimmerman kept following martin after the dispatcher asked him to stop. It's accepted as fact by many people here and repeated multiple times in this thread. It's repeatedly used as "proof" that Zimmerman is guilty and was the instigator in the physical confrontation that ended with Martin being shot.

AllNiteThing wrote:

Aside from killing an intrude in your home, I would think nearly all cases should go through a court of law. Even an intruder in your home, someone could fabricate a story and who is it that makes the judgment call? Some cops? When it involves the death of another human, I don't think we can afford to make discretionary judgment calls at the scene like that.

Monster Rain wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Im still just trying to figure out if Zimmerman is the self appointed chief of neighborhood watch, does that mean he has particular hours when he is on duty, or is he always in the neighborhood watch? Because generally, they are instructed to NEVER pursue, and NEVER be armed.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -zimmerman

"Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Second, Zimmerman carried a handgun. Police departments and sheriff's offices that train volunteers advise them never to carry weapons — though Zimmerman broke no laws by doing so because he has a concealed-weapons permit.

"There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said.

*****
So I guess it depends on how you take it. He was breaking protocol from the get-go. Then he was told not to follow Treyvon and to go back to his car. Then he disagreed, saying the police should call him (likely because he wont be back at his car where he was instructed to go).

I have no doubt that Zimmerman made a stupid decision when he got out of his truck. He had no way of knowing if Martin was armed at that point (and I believe he mentioned during the 911 call that Martin's hands were in his pockets at one point, which would have been enough to make me go back to my vehicle at that point whether I was armed or not). I have no way of knowing right now what happened after he hung up the phone that night, so I cannot assume anything without some sort of credible evidence. I hope that someone in that neighborhood saw what happened that night and that information just hasn't leaked yet--and by that I mean I hope someone saw who initiated the conflict, where they were when it started, which direction they were facing, etc.--because aside from a credible eyewitness account or video from someone's home security system we might not ever know how the fight began.

usamamasan1 wrote:

he's got to make some money yo. can't work now can he?

he could very well make lots of money down the road, just sprayin'

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Im still just trying to figure out if Zimmerman is the self appointed chief of neighborhood watch, does that mean he has particular hours when he is on duty, or is he always in the neighborhood watch? Because generally, they are instructed to NEVER pursue, and NEVER be armed.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -zimmerman

"Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Second, Zimmerman carried a handgun. Police departments and sheriff's offices that train volunteers advise them never to carry weapons — though Zimmerman broke no laws by doing so because he has a concealed-weapons permit.

"There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said.

*****
So I guess it depends on how you take it. He was breaking protocol from the get-go. Then he was told not to follow Treyvon and to go back to his car. Then he disagreed, saying the police should call him (likely because he wont be back at his car where he was instructed to go).

I have no doubt that Zimmerman made a stupid decision when he got out of his truck. He had no way of knowing if Martin was armed at that point (and I believe he mentioned during the 911 call that Martin's hands were in his pockets at one point, which would have been enough to make me go back to my vehicle at that point whether I was armed or not). I have no way of knowing right now what happened after he hung up the phone that night, so I cannot assume anything without some sort of credible evidence. I hope that someone in that neighborhood saw what happened that night and that information just hasn't leaked yet--and by that I mean I hope someone saw who initiated the conflict, where they were when it started, which direction they were facing, etc.--because aside from a credible eyewitness account or video from someone's home security system we might not ever know how the fight began.

I can agree with that.
And as it stands, I think Zimmerman is 'innocent' according to our shitty laws. Even it is proven that he has a cut on his head, or if it was him screaming on the tape, I still think he was wrong for his actions. (just my opinion). If no witness can say he shot without provocation, he just has to say, in his opinion, that he felt threatened.

Also, wanna see something funny? here's the law that I found:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;

insane if you ask me.

The special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case will announce criminal charges against George Zimmerman about 6 p.m. ET Wednesday, a law enforcement official told NBC News.

The nature of the charges weren't immediately known, the official told NBC News Justice Department correspondent Pete Williams, speaking on condition of anonymity. But because Angela Corey, the special prosecutor appointed by Florida Gov. Rick Scott to re-examine the case, previously announced that she wouldn't take the case to a grand jury, first-degree murder is not an option