Trayvon Martin

mikepegg44 · April 2012

RW81233 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I call it bad credit if your black white or green and did you see the small spot in the news about the black panthers intimidating voters at the poles during the Obama vote, blacks(not all) are just as much to blame for racism as anybody else,when you commit a crime you go to prison no matter what color you are,more blacks are killed by other blacks than killed by whites...I really tired of aLL the whining about the poor black people..seems a ploy for more attention.

Godfather.

If you paid any attention to the history of racism in America then you would never say blacks are just as much to blame for racism as anybody else. White people invented racism to justify the slavery of black people in a land where "all men are created equal", they created false science that always magically put white people on top. It wasn't until the human genome project that this science was debunked. As state sponsored racism fades away it has been replaced with cultural racisms that dehumanize and lack any depth of understanding. So NO blacks are not as much to blame for racism. Saying so would completely disregard the historical behaviors of our founding fathers - you know the one's you want us to so closely follow when it comes to constitutional whatever. At the same time, yes, black people can be racist, as can just about every other ethnic group. Often racism comes from stereotypes that have some level of surface truth, but does nothing to understand the context that makes that truth possible.

too far. way too far. Slavery existed in America long before the white man got here. Native Americans kept slaves. Racism wasn't created to justify slavery. That is the kind of conclusion that makes it hard to debate. It isn't true, not in the least. Arab slave trade was prominent long before America was invaded. Slaves have been around forever in one shape or another, so has the slave trade and so has hating another group simply for being from another group...
Bunk Science was used to justify many positions of state sponsored racism around the world, but saying that it and other hatreds were invented by white people in our nation is the same as picking something that came after the fact and blaming it for creating the problems in the first place. you can't do it.
Interesting discussion here, maybe we should create a new thread on the topic.

Halifax2TheMax · April 2012

Godfather. wrote:

I call it bad credit if your black white or green and did you see the small spot in the news about the black panthers intimidating voters at the poles during the Obama vote, blacks(not all) are just as much to blame for racism as anybody else,when you commit a crime you go to prison no matter what color you are,more blacks are killed by other blacks than killed by whites...I really tired of aLL the whining about the poor black people..seems a ploy for more attention.

Godfather.

I said "same" credit scores, not worse credit scores and longer prison terms, not no prison terms. I agree, you have poor credit, no loan. You commit a crime, you go to jail. Just not be treated differently because of the color of your skin. And the Black Panthers intimidation of voters was how? Threats of physical violence? Exercising their freedom of speech? An isolated incident? Or was it a concerted attack on multiple polling places in republican leaning, wealtheir voting districts? Regardless, if it happened, it was wrong. Racism, practiced by anyone, is wrong regardless of who commits the act and who the victim is. My point is that blacks are victims far more often than whites. And I'd be willing to bet that more whites are killed by whites so I don't understand the point you were trying to make by your statement that more blacks are killed by blacks. Please help me understand. And what did you mean by "a ploy for more attention?"

Peace.

cincybearcat · April 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

If you paid any attention to the history of racism in America then you would never say blacks are just as much to blame for racism as anybody else. White people invented racism to justify the slavery of black people in a land where "all men are created equal", they created false science that always magically put white people on top. It wasn't until the human genome project that this science was debunked. As state sponsored racism fades away it has been replaced with cultural racisms that dehumanize and lack any depth of understanding. So NO blacks are not as much to blame for racism. Saying so would completely disregard the historical behaviors of our founding fathers - you know the one's you want us to so closely follow when it comes to constitutional whatever. At the same time, yes, black people can be racist, as can just about every other ethnic group. Often racism comes from stereotypes that have some level of surface truth, but does nothing to understand the context that makes that truth possible.

too far. way too far. Slavery existed in America long before the white man got here. Native Americans kept slaves. Racism wasn't created to justify slavery. That is the kind of conclusion that makes it hard to debate. It isn't true, not in the least. Arab slave trade was prominent long before America was invaded. Slaves have been around forever in one shape or another, so has the slave trade and so has hating another group simply for being from another group...
Bunk Science was used to justify many positions of state sponsored racism around the world, but saying that it and other hatreds were invented by white people in our nation is the same as picking something that came after the fact and blaming it for creating the problems in the first place. you can't do it.
Interesting discussion here, maybe we should create a new thread on the topic.

Thanks for saving me a lot of time.

RW81233 · April 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I call it bad credit if your black white or green and did you see the small spot in the news about the black panthers intimidating voters at the poles during the Obama vote, blacks(not all) are just as much to blame for racism as anybody else,when you commit a crime you go to prison no matter what color you are,more blacks are killed by other blacks than killed by whites...I really tired of aLL the whining about the poor black people..seems a ploy for more attention.

Godfather.

If you paid any attention to the history of racism in America then you would never say blacks are just as much to blame for racism as anybody else. White people invented racism to justify the slavery of black people in a land where "all men are created equal", they created false science that always magically put white people on top. It wasn't until the human genome project that this science was debunked. As state sponsored racism fades away it has been replaced with cultural racisms that dehumanize and lack any depth of understanding. So NO blacks are not as much to blame for racism. Saying so would completely disregard the historical behaviors of our founding fathers - you know the one's you want us to so closely follow when it comes to constitutional whatever. At the same time, yes, black people can be racist, as can just about every other ethnic group. Often racism comes from stereotypes that have some level of surface truth, but does nothing to understand the context that makes that truth possible.

too far. way too far. Slavery existed in America long before the white man got here. Native Americans kept slaves. Racism wasn't created to justify slavery. That is the kind of conclusion that makes it hard to debate. It isn't true, not in the least. Arab slave trade was prominent long before America was invaded. Slaves have been around forever in one shape or another, so has the slave trade and so has hating another group simply for being from another group...
Bunk Science was used to justify many positions of state sponsored racism around the world, but saying that it and other hatreds were invented by white people in our nation is the same as picking something that came after the fact and blaming it for creating the problems in the first place. you can't do it.
Interesting discussion here, maybe we should create a new thread on the topic.

I was talking about in the US...of course there were other peoples that practiced slavery. What was unique about the United States is that we were a country built on the idea that "all men were created equal". To justify slavery in this particular context (not worldwide) required the use of bunk science to dehumanize and actually turn black men into 3/5ths of a person. That has had a lasting effect on our society that continues today.

mikepegg44 · April 2012

polaris_x wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

well I was answering based on the idea that currently the majority of people are against the war in iraq, see no purpose, and want us out of there. The start may have been different. And that brings me to a much larger point i will try to illustrate. Looking at the past and judging today by it may lead us to faulty conclusions.

you don't honestly believe that the civil rights movement and the changes caused by it are mostly superficial? hopefully you meant something different.

Again i understand what the statistics could be said to show. But to me that isn't a result of current institutionalized racism. The past certainly has an affect on the present, but let's be honest...at what point will we say, the past injustice felt no longer applies to the future. When will that day occur?
The plight of those in the inner city ( I agree with your comment on class being a bigger problem ) is exacerbated by the actions by those same people. It is a catch 22...It will be very hard to convince the people to spend even more money on schools when the kids in those areas don't want to go and damage the schools that are there.
I don't know the solution. But pragmatically, focusing on the past will not solve the problems of the day. It will help prevent us from making those same mistakes if we are able to learn from them. Does that makes sense?

either way...we both think there is a problem. I just think that the solutions will come from a different way of thinking, but the prevention in the future will spawn from the statistics of the past. I don't know...whatever it is we are doing isn't helping current generations in the short term...so isn't it time for a fresh view?

but most people still believe that going into iraq was the right thing to do ... just because a current belief that the US should be out doesn't change the fact that people still believe the motive was fine ...

let me put it another way ... if a group wanted to exert racial policies today ... they do so in a more insidious manner ... for example ... if a store wanted to ban blacks ... they aren't going to hang a sign saying "no blacks allowed" ... instead ... they put up signs that say "no baseball caps" ... now, this example is just meant to show how it's done now and uses generalizations and what not ... so, anyone who replies to this focusing on the baseball caps is going to be ignored for not understanding my disclaimer ...

as much as the civil rights movement gave certain minorities rights and freedoms - all it did was change the way the racism was shown ...

yes, things are different from 50 years ago ... but there is a looong way to go ...

But not acknowledging the change is the same problem I am talking about with race relations. Without acknowledging that change, you cannot acknowledge advancement. Just like the original topic. By saying it gave a certain minorities rights and freedoms demeans the monumental change for America.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... 03544.html
from the article
The percentage of Americans who say America did the right thing in going to war in Iraq now stands at 37 percent.

You cannot put up signs that will keep out a certain group. Now if you put the sign up and only enforce it on African Americans that is different. But do you honestly believe that type of behavior happens everywhere all the time? It isn't institutional racism, it is at its base, people always doing what people do all over the world...hating differences no matter how petty.

mikepegg44 · April 2012

RW81233 wrote:

I was talking about in the US...of course there were other peoples that practiced slavery. What was unique about the United States is that we were a country built on the idea that "all men were created equal". To justify slavery in this particular context (not worldwide) required the use of bunk science to dehumanize and actually turn black men into 3/5ths of a person. That has had a lasting effect on our society that continues today.

Fair enough, but that wasn't clear in your post.

It is a sad juxtaposition there is no doubt of that...

RW81233 · April 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

I was talking about in the US...of course there were other peoples that practiced slavery. What was unique about the United States is that we were a country built on the idea that "all men were created equal". To justify slavery in this particular context (not worldwide) required the use of bunk science to dehumanize and actually turn black men into 3/5ths of a person. That has had a lasting effect on our society that continues today.

Fair enough, but that wasn't clear in your post.

It is a sad juxtaposition there is no doubt of that...

yeah i realized that upon the reread and wanted to make clear what i was talking about.

mikepegg44 · April 2012

RW81233 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

I was talking about in the US...of course there were other peoples that practiced slavery. What was unique about the United States is that we were a country built on the idea that "all men were created equal". To justify slavery in this particular context (not worldwide) required the use of bunk science to dehumanize and actually turn black men into 3/5ths of a person. That has had a lasting effect on our society that continues today.

Fair enough, but that wasn't clear in your post.

It is a sad juxtaposition there is no doubt of that...

yeah i realized that upon the reread and wanted to make clear what i was talking about.

I am glad you did. The use of science to create a subhuman species was really a strange thing to do. It really wasn't necessary, they could have simply said property is not considered man...no matter the property.
But the science angle for this was only the start of misusing the scientific method to justify positions

(you see what I did there?)

Godfather. · April 2012

Halifax2TheMax wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I call it bad credit if your black white or green and did you see the small spot in the news about the black panthers intimidating voters at the poles during the Obama vote, blacks(not all) are just as much to blame for racism as anybody else,when you commit a crime you go to prison no matter what color you are,more blacks are killed by other blacks than killed by whites...I really tired of aLL the whining about the poor black people..seems a ploy for more attention.

Godfather.

I said "same" credit scores, not worse credit scores and longer prison terms, not no prison terms. I agree, you have poor credit, no loan. You commit a crime, you go to jail. Just not be treated differently because of the color of your skin. And the Black Panthers intimidation of voters was how? Threats of physical violence? Exercising their freedom of speech? An isolated incident? Or was it a concerted attack on multiple polling places in republican leaning, wealtheir voting districts? Regardless, if it happened, it was wrong. Racism, practiced by anyone, is wrong regardless of who commits the act and who the victim is. My point is that blacks are victims far more often than whites. And I'd be willing to bet that more whites are killed by whites so I don't understand the point you were trying to make by your statement that more blacks are killed by blacks. Please help me understand. And what did you mean by "a ploy for more attention?"

Peace.

o.k. a little black history, did you know that black tribes sold and traded other blacks to the white slave traders ? did you know that whites left their farms to their slaves sometimes ? did you know some of those black farm owners also used slave labor and bought and sold slaves ? and blacks being victims far more than whites today ? try walking your white ass down ocean view at night...or any black neighborhood in the low income part of town then tell them they are racist if they call you white trash and kick your ass or shoot you,
this is now.. not the 1800's I never owned a slave and don't judge my friends or anybody else buy the color of their skin I call it like I see based on my own experiances,if a man is repectful toward me then I will treat them the same no matter what color they are, EACH person showes who they are by their actions not their color and people that keep pushing the racism isssue are helping to keep racism alive, the past is just that...the past we need to move forward and stop blaming people for things that happened 200 years ago.

Godfather.

Jason P · April 2012

No shirt, No shoes, No service

:think:

I believe this to be discriminatory against white rednecks.

:ugeek:

Jason P · April 2012

Oh yeah, back to the original topic ...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnt02N0xmf-IkoLDhhVFaooZoTBOIvOqjkTWuScKZds2UgYJ_P

NBC has apologized for editing the 911 calls in a way to make it seem racist.

Godfather. · April 2012

Jason P wrote:

Oh yeah, back to the original topic ...

NBC has apologized for editing the 911 calls in a way to make it seem racist.

? ..are you kidding ? send a link.

Godfather.

Blockhead · April 2012

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Oh yeah, back to the original topic ...

NBC has apologized for editing the 911 calls in a way to make it seem racist.

? ..are you kidding ? send a link.

Godfather.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... ml?hpid=z2

That apology addresses the “Today” show’s failure to abridge accurately the conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher in this high-profile case. This is how the program portrayed a segment of that conversation:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

And here is how it actually went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

shadowcast · April 2012

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -condition

Looks like Sanford, FL has more problems than we know.

This would explain why Zimmerman carries a gun on him??? No?

polaris_x · April 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

But not acknowledging the change is the same problem I am talking about with race relations. Without acknowledging that change, you cannot acknowledge advancement. Just like the original topic. By saying it gave a certain minorities rights and freedoms demeans the monumental change for America.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... 03544.html
from the article
The percentage of Americans who say America did the right thing in going to war in Iraq now stands at 37 percent.

You cannot put up signs that will keep out a certain group. Now if you put the sign up and only enforce it on African Americans that is different. But do you honestly believe that type of behavior happens everywhere all the time? It isn't institutional racism, it is at its base, people always doing what people do all over the world...hating differences no matter how petty.

i'd like to know what they meant by "the right thing" ... are these people just looking at the dollars and cents? ... also, that survey says 63% of republicans still think it's the right thing to do ... so, there is some perspective here as well ...

you're right in that my example isn't institutionalized racism ... my point there was that people found other ways ... and some of those other ways are in the myriad of policies that exist ...

hedonist · April 2012

Jason P wrote:

Oh yeah, back to the original topic ...

NBC has apologized for editing the 911 calls in a way to make it seem racist.

That was fucking deplorable - takes some kind of balls to pull that shit.

(also, cats in hoodies?

)

Godfather. · April 2012

Blockhead wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Oh yeah, back to the original topic ...

NBC has apologized for editing the 911 calls in a way to make it seem racist.

? ..are you kidding ? send a link.

Godfather.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... ml?hpid=z2

That apology addresses the “Today” show’s failure to abridge accurately the conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher in this high-profile case. This is how the program portrayed a segment of that conversation:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

And here is how it actually went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

wow I'm floored...NBC ???? not Fox ??? no joking this is un-freakin-real but at the same time not superising... but NBC ?..did they just screw their credabilty all to crap or what ? this was one of the sorces I compared my Fox info to, they're all liars and bullshitters,who owns NBC ?

Godfather.

JonnyPistachio · April 2012

shadowcast wrote:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-04/news/os-three-shot-sanford-pregnant-woman-20120404_1_pregnant-woman-gunshot-wounds-stable-condition

Looks like Sanford, FL has more problems than we know.

This would explain why Zimmerman carries a gun on him??? No?

My first reaction to seeing this story this morning was: would this have even made the headline news if it wasnt for the Treyvon case? Doubtful.

I think Zimmerman carries a gun because he's somewhat paranoid.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=186020

JonnyPistachio · April 2012

Blockhead wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Oh yeah, back to the original topic ...

NBC has apologized for editing the 911 calls in a way to make it seem racist.

? ..are you kidding ? send a link.

Godfather.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... ml?hpid=z2

That apology addresses the “Today” show’s failure to abridge accurately the conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher in this high-profile case. This is how the program portrayed a segment of that conversation:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

And here is how it actually went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

How the hell does something like this happen? Thats terrible. Are there still jobs where people check others work? The way the media has handled this case is scary.

Godfather. · April 2012

agreed JP!

Godfather.

Trayvon Martin

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