Vaccinate your kids?

mikalina · April 2012

stargirl69 wrote:

loolooloo wrote:

My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

Great post,well said

I agree with this as well.

Both my kids were vaccinated... And I had concerns but no real hard evidence not too.

There is "risks" in everything and lets not forget OTC medications that we give our children. I just found out that "baby" tylenol has been pulled, or at least not recommend under the age of 6 months or 1 year.

Children will not suffer thru polio, scarlet fever etc just by being vaccinated.

I believe every parent needs to do what is best for them and their children.

rollings · April 2012

loolooloo wrote:

If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them......... . But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

The problem is...autism is a set of behaviors. (see below). It's not considered medical. It's diagnnosis is found in the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) for Mental Disorders"

That's right. One in every 54 boys are being diagnosed with what the medical community considers a mental disorder.

Until common underlying biomedical evidence is fully studied and understood and recognized, a link between something medical and mere symptoms WILL BE VERY HARD TO PROVE, if not almost impossible.

The biological underpinnings are just now rising to the surface. Oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, immune system abnormalities. These may have been caused by all the things you mention, such as over use of anti-biotics, etc.

Vaccines DO harm children who have oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, and immune system abnormalities. But babies are NOT tested to see if these conditions exist. That's just one of many problems.

It is the people like your neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's who, when affected, dig deeper for answers than what is available on the surface.

Diagnostic Criteria for 299.00 Autistic Disorder

[The following is from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV]

(I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)

(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the description, it gives the following as examples: not actively participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or "mechanical" aids )

(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level

(C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals

3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:

(A) social interaction

(B) language as used in social communication

(C) symbolic or imaginative play

(III) The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder

dimitrispearljam · April 2012

stargirl69 wrote:

loolooloo wrote:

My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

Great post,well said

rollings · April 2012

Carey wrote:

pandora wrote:

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-study-more-kids-have-autism-than-previously-diagnosed-20120329,0,5978519.story

Hepatitis B shot on day of birth is filled with mercury ...

Government program started in 1990...

http://www.mercuryexposure.info/context ... ere-autism
“Effective excretionof mercury will lead to higher hair, blood and urine mercury levels in a population that is beingexposed to mercury at a constant, chronic, low level. The problem comes when those, who do noteffectively excrete mercury, become exposed to a large dose, such as infants already exposed to mercury during pregnancy and who in addition received thimerosal containing hepatitis-B vaccines on the day of birth. The USA EPA set a standard of exposure on the safe level of ingested methyl mercury of 0.1 mg/kg body weight. Using this safety level, the newborn would have had to weigh 125 kg to take this exposure safely."); Haley B.,Mercury toxicity: Genetic susceptibility and synergistic effects, Medical Veritas 2 (2005) 535–542535 ("This data in Figure 2 show that normal children have birth hair levels of mercury that correlate with the number of amalgam fillings in the birth mother; whereas, in sharp contrast, the autistic children have exceptionally low levels of birth hair mercury, no matter what the number of amalgam fillings are found in the birth mother. This data strongly implies that autistic children represent a subset of the population that does not effectively excrete mercury from their cells."

Hep B vaccine also linked to a form of deadly Lupus

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ ... ses-lupus/

It is possible to receive a T-free Hepatitis B vaccination. I know, because both my kids received this at birth.

Yes, Hep-B does not contain thimerosol anymore. It now contains aluminum. (source vaccine package insert)

aluminum has the same capacity to penetrate the protective blood brain barrier as does mercury. It's molecular structure is such so that it settles in the brain's glial cells which in turn reaks havoc on the anti-immunity structure of the brain , causing it to produce anti-brain antibodies, it;s very sad. My source is a John Hopkins study. It's not easy reading, but not impossible to understand.

So....there's not a link between vaccines and autism...but there is a link between the additives in a vaccine and what COULD be the cause of autism.

Do most people have anit-brain antibodies? no. Is it common with chilrden with autism? Very. My source? Published medical journals. Who reads these things? Not most people, that's for sure. And why would they.... I wouldn't if my child were not affected.

Is my thinking wrong? aluminum in the brain can causes anti-brain antibodies. anti-brain antibodies is common in autism. This is just ONE of the links that I must question while I am reading medical research publications.

the strange thing is...I have NEVER suspected vaccines to cause my son's autism, and I never research "vaccines and autism". I only Started to suspected vaccines because links like the above (aluminum, anti-bodies) kept presenting themselves time and time again in my research otherwise.

dimitrispearljam · April 2012

i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..
btw, this is one of the most intresting threads ever read at the forum..

prism · April 2012

loolooloo wrote:

My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

very well stated....i totally agree.

my sister fell for the fear mongering that vaccines are bad, so didn't have her kids immunized (besides they were home-schooled.) she herself hadn't receieved any DTaP booster in 30 years. they live in a small town where the majority of kids have never been immunized, and she deals with kids @ work & church. well just last fall there was a pertussis (whooping cough) outbreak in their area. yes she contracted it, and ended up in the ER four times and was admitted twiced. insurance covered little of those expenses. she was extremely sick and out of work for 6 weeks. since all of that could've been prevented with a booster vaccine....needless to say she's changed her tune.

i'm immunocompromised so it's imparative that i keep up to date on my boosters and get flu vaccines. in '96 i got the flu and it turned into pneumonia & i was hospitalized 6 days...was unable to work or do much of anything for over a month....yep, i'll take a yearly flu shot instead, thanks.

should add that flu shots DO NOT cause the flu...they can take a week or two to take full effect & sometimes ppl contract it during that span, but it's not from the flu vaccine (they don't contain live virus) it's also possble they contracted a flu-strain that wasn't covered by that particular vaccine.

also both my kids were preemies and therefore more succeptable to any number of preventable diseases. so yes they were both vaccinated and they grew up just fine.

covered in bliss · April 2012

Back in Sept 2002, my just-turned-3 year old had big check marks next to all of the criteria Rollings posted above! I always felt that something was 'off' with him but family and friends talked me out of it and his pediatrician wasn't really any help, either. She was concerned when he wasn't talking at age 2 but shortly after, he -did- start talking so once again, she wasn't really concerned.

Our school district has a preschool screening for 3 year olds and after seeing him for about 20 minutes, they asked if we could stay, they wanted to do a full evaluation. Fast forward 3 hours and we were given a school supply list of things to bring the next day and a diagnosis of autism.

He went to early childhood education 5 days a week for 2 years, even summer school! I would help out there once or twice a week and some of the other kids were VERY autistic...not at all like my son and the autism diagnosis was quite confusing at first!

They didn't think he was ready to be integrated into regular kindergarten so he went into a pre-k program with more special needs kids... fetal alcohol syndrome, aspergers, etc. Both of these schools\programs were excellent about bringing 'normal' kids in frequently to get some positive peer interaction.

By the time he entered 1st grade, he was a new child. He still met the criteria for autism but just barely. During 3rd grade he was 'downgraded' to PDDNOS but still had a full-time classroom aide assigned to him to kind of keep an eye on things. The aide was eventually changed to part-time (certain classes) and then dropped altogether for 5th grade and at his 3 year evaluation last spring, he didn't meet ANY criteria for anything! we sat at a conference table with his current teachers, a social worker, psychologist, speech therapist..... none of us could find a single thing and none of the tests given to him placed him anywhere on the spectrum.

He started junior high this year with no aide, no speech therapy, nothing 'officially' labeling him as anything. When my husband and I went to parent teacher conferences, none of the teachers seemed to know anything about his past history (kind of shocking).

He's a straight A student with many friends... plays team sports, etc. He does have a few quirks and has problems with reading comprehension at school (but only if he's not interested in the subject matter).

Through all of this we never skipped a vaccination or stuck to a gluten free diet for more than a few weeks because it didn't seem to help him. Early intervention through the school district really saved us. We didn't have any outside assistance or therapy. When we watch old home movies, we can't believe how far he's come, how much he's changed. We often wonder why??

Autism is such a scary thing, today's statistics are shocking. To think that parents put everyone else in danger by not getting their kids vaccinated just adds to the crap a parent has to worry about! If it's this bad right now, what's it going to be like in 10 years? what percent of kids won't be vaccinated and when are the horrible diseases going to start spreading around hard-core?

loolooloo · April 2012

Rollings wrote:

loolooloo wrote:

If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them......... . But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

The problem is...autism is a set of behaviors. (see below). It's not considered medical. It's diagnnosis is found in the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) for Mental Disorders"

That's right. One in every 54 boys are being diagnosed with what the medical community considers a mental disorder.

Until common underlying biomedical evidence is fully studied and understood and recognized, a link between something medical and mere symptoms WILL BE VERY HARD TO PROVE, if not almost impossible.

The biological underpinnings are just now rising to the surface. Oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, immune system abnormalities. These may have been caused by all the things you mention, such as over use of anti-biotics, etc.

Vaccines DO harm children who have oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, and immune system abnormalities. But babies are NOT tested to see if these conditions exist. That's just one of many problems.

It is the people like your neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's who, when affected, dig deeper for answers than what is available on the surface.

[/i]

I agree that more research needs to be done on this, and most mental disorders. The DSM, while useful, does little to help explain mental illness (which yes, of course is a medical problem), and relies on grouping symptoms together. Again, this can be useful in diagnosing and insurance billing, but as far as the cause of most mental illness, the medical community is just beginning to scratch the surface. Digging deeper is great. I just get fearful when people start jumping in the hole! (Ok, that's bad cliche)

Unfortunately, research takes money, and you know who has the money? The drug companies. You know who doesn't have a pharmacological treatment for Autism? The drug companies. So, it's a negative feed back loop- We need money for research, drug companies don't want to give money where they will have no money in return, and the cycle continues. We need some more Bill Gates of the world to start throwing millions into mental health. Until then, I just try to stay sane.

pandora · April 2012

Pediatricians Beholden to Drug Companies

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), a major supporter of mandatory chickenpox and other vaccine mandates across the country, shares incestuous financial ties with Merck. When constructing its new headquarters in suburban Chicago, the AAP solicited funds from Merck, and received $100,000 for its building campaign.

Vaccines represent an economic boon for pediatricians. Profitable well-baby visits are timed to coincide with vaccination schedules established by the AAP and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

(Merck would have stood to lose 200+ million per year on the vaccination if halted.)

again ...

this chicken pox vaccination, who the AAP firmly supported, is now leading to an increase in shingles in our population... a much more dangerous and painful disease.

Vaccines have disturbed our natural defenses/natural disease order, which is clearly shown
in these two 'cousin illnesses',
this separate from the fact vaccines are made from dangerous ingredients,
ones not properly tested long term.

Vaccines = Big $$$$

Who Princess · April 2012

Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?

EdsonNascimento · April 2012

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..

Why? I wouldn't. As someone else said - when you have kids, it changes everything.

For my car, I question everything. Why wouldn't I for my children's health and well being?

I am on the side of kids should have the basic vaccines. But, the extraneous ones (I know that's subjective) like Chicken pox, etc. should be up to the parent.

My kids have all theirs, but we delayed them as long as possible. We were technically not in compliance with NY State law when the kids when to school until almost 2nd grade (still hoping they'd get Chicken Pox on their own). There's ways to delay some of them (not all, nor would I take that chance with a couple of them) even with the State Laws (we have to submit vaccination records to the school in NY).

We also insisted on preservative free. At least in NY, they must provide that if asked. And check the labels before they give them. Our first (and former) pediatrician tried to sneak one by (honest mistake my foot).

I don't know the evidence either way is as solid as it needs to be. But, why would I take the chance?

I do find it humorous that folks that gave vaccines are almost militant about others getting it. I'd expect the anti-vaccines to be that way as they are fighting "the man." But, it's almost like they did something they are unsure of, and want to make sure everyone is forced to take the same risk.

If folks kept their sick kids out of school when they are wipping their noses, we'd solve a lot more issues.

dimitrispearljam · April 2012

EdsonNascimento wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..

Why? I wouldn't. As someone else said - when you have kids, it changes everything.

For my car, I question everything. Why wouldn't I for my children's health and well being?

.

i mean,i ask about this matters to specialist ,doctors and nurses have knowledge...
and i have a very specific person,she is in medicine -health field , i trust her about this matters with my eyes closed...
...when it come to kids and health,she is the first i ask..

Who Princess · April 2012

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I do find it humorous that folks that gave vaccines are almost militant about others getting it. I'd expect the anti-vaccines to be that way as they are fighting "the man." But, it's almost like they did something they are unsure of, and want to make sure everyone is forced to take the same risk.

As I said earlier, I think it's up to the parents to make the choice and not me. I just find it that the anti-vaccine parents seem so insistent that no one be required to have vaccinations. I think the people who do vaccinate are reacting to that tone, sort of "Why are you criticizing me for doing what I thought best?" It's not a very courteous debate.

antares434 · April 2012

Who Princess wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I do find it humorous that folks that gave vaccines are almost militant about others getting it. I'd expect the anti-vaccines to be that way as they are fighting "the man." But, it's almost like they did something they are unsure of, and want to make sure everyone is forced to take the same risk.

As I said earlier, I think it's up to the parents to make the choice and not me. I just find it that the anti-vaccine parents seem so insistent that no one be required to have vaccinations. I think the people who do vaccinate are reacting to that tone, sort of "Why are you criticizing me for doing what I thought best?" It's not a very courteous debate.

Also, vaccines are less effective when a higher percentage of the population opts out ... this is why certain vaccines are mandatory. You put other people in danger when you don't get your kid vaccinated. Choosing not to vaccinate is a choice you make for every person your sick kid gets in contact with. When your un-vaccinated kid gets sick, then he/she can pass it on to others (even kids who've been vaccinated bc it's not guaranteed to work).

pandora · April 2012

Who Princess wrote:

Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?

http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/

Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers findings that since death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Dr. Goldman was also published in the journal Vaccine showing a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

Both chicken pox and shingles are caused by the same varicella-zoster virus (VZV). Adults receive natural boosting of thier defenses against shingles from contact with children infected with chicken pox.

Epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping “any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a ‘shingles’ vaccine.” This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

“Using a shingles vaccine to control shingles epidemics in adults would likely fail because adult vaccination programs have rarely proved successful,” said Goldman. “There appears to be no way to avoid a mass epidemic of shingles lasting as long as several generations among adults.”

Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.

The common knowledge within the medical community has assumed the reason the frequency of shingles increased with age is due to the older individuals’ immune systems are declining. However, Goldman’s new research shows the real reason is due to the fact that older people received fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children goes down.

Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.

The article speaks as to why the research links the two. Actually it says the more mild
contact we have with chicken pox the more immune we are to shingles

In my 56 years I have only known one person to have the horrible illness ... my boyfriend before JB.
Alan had never had chicken pox as a kid but only shingles at age 25.

Who Princess · April 2012

pandora wrote:

Who Princess wrote:

Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?

http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/

Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

So we're supposed to keep exposing ourselves to chicken pox to prevent shingles? I had a severe case when I was a kid and wouldn't care to go through that again.

Are there other reasons for the increased rates of shingles? Such as an increasingly aging population who are more susceptible? I spent 5 years working with people with AIDS in the early 90s. Shingles was a routine problem for them because of their weakened immune systems. Could that be part of the increase? If the vaccine has only been recommended since 1995, wouldn't we be seeing outbreaks in teenagers?

Since there's ammunition for just about any argument if you look on the internet, I think I'd like to see a little more evidence. I get it that it's a vaccine that may not be necessary. I'm just not convinced it's the cause of a huge rise in cases of shingles. I've known many people who've had shingles, some fairly young, but not so young that they've had a chicken pox vaccination.

pandora · April 2012

antares434 wrote:

Also, vaccines are less effective when a higher percentage of the population opts out ... this is why certain vaccines are mandatory. You put other people in danger when you don't get your kid vaccinated. Choosing not to vaccinate is a choice you make for every person your sick kid gets in contact with. When your un-vaccinated kid gets sick, then he/she can pass it on to others (even kids who've been vaccinated bc it's not guaranteed to work).

In the case of the chickenpox vaccine it is the opposite so I'm not sure about all vaccines
research I would have to do to see if this is the cases in any other....

Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.

I think the debate is a legitimate one and perhaps all can agree we want the ability to do what is
right for our own children, have that choice and know the truth.

If I thought a drug manufacturer was standing to make 200+ million a year
on a mild childhood illness vaccine I might think that was a strong motive
to queston how much it was really needed.

Ultimately we should be able to choose and it seems we can. Research the vaccines.

antares434 · April 2012

pandora wrote:

Who Princess wrote:

Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?

http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/

Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers findings that since death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Dr. Goldman was also published in the journal Vaccine showing a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

Both chicken pox and shingles are caused by the same varicella-zoster virus (VZV). Adults receive natural boosting of thier defenses against shingles from contact with children infected with chicken pox.

Epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping “any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a ‘shingles’ vaccine.” This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

“Using a shingles vaccine to control shingles epidemics in adults would likely fail because adult vaccination programs have rarely proved successful,” said Goldman. “There appears to be no way to avoid a mass epidemic of shingles lasting as long as several generations among adults.”

Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.

The common knowledge within the medical community has assumed the reason the frequency of shingles increased with age is due to the older individuals’ immune systems are declining. However, Goldman’s new research shows the real reason is due to the fact that older people received fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children goes down.

Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.

The article speaks as to why the research links the two. Actually it says the more mild
contact we have with chicken pox the more immune we are to shingles

In my 56 years I have only known one person to have the horrible illness ... my boyfriend before JB.
Alan had never had chicken pox as a kid but only shingles at age 25.

Goldman is a well-known anti-vaccine advocate.
http://www.drgoldmanonline.com/
You are quick to point out conflicts of interest that the evil drug companies have ... do you use the same standard when reading Goldman's stuff?

pandora · April 2012

Who Princess wrote:

pandora wrote:

Who Princess wrote:

Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?

http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/

Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

So we're supposed to keep exposing ourselves to chicken pox to prevent shingles? I had a severe case when I was a kid and wouldn't care to go through that again.

Are there other reasons for the increased rates of shingles? Such as an increasingly aging population who are more susceptible? I spent 5 years working with people with AIDS in the early 90s. Shingles was a routine problem for them because of their weakened immune systems. Could that be part of the increase? If the vaccine has only been recommended since 1995, wouldn't we be seeing outbreaks in teenagers?

Since there's ammunition for just about any argument if you look on the internet, I think I'd like to see a little more evidence. I get it that it's a vaccine that may not be necessary. I'm just not convinced it's the cause of a huge rise in cases of shingles. I've known many people who've had shingles, some fairly young, but not so young that they've had a chicken pox vaccination.

The studies suggest that no it is not lessened immune system it is lessened mild contact with
chickenpox... ie kids aren't having the pox anymore.

High school incidents have risen but now there is a vaccine for shingles ...
and it is suggested of course.

EdsonNascimento · April 2012

dimitrispearljam wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..

Why? I wouldn't. As someone else said - when you have kids, it changes everything.

For my car, I question everything. Why wouldn't I for my children's health and well being?

.

i mean,i ask about this matters to specialist ,doctors and nurses have knowledge...
and i have a very specific person,she is in medicine -health field , i trust her about this matters with my eyes closed...
...when it come to kids and health,she is the first i ask..

Ah!! Gotcha. That makes sense.

Vaccinate your kids?

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