Vaccinate your kids?

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  • i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..

    Why? I wouldn't. As someone else said - when you have kids, it changes everything.

    For my car, I question everything. Why wouldn't I for my children's health and well being?

    I am on the side of kids should have the basic vaccines. But, the extraneous ones (I know that's subjective) like Chicken pox, etc. should be up to the parent.

    My kids have all theirs, but we delayed them as long as possible. We were technically not in compliance with NY State law when the kids when to school until almost 2nd grade (still hoping they'd get Chicken Pox on their own). There's ways to delay some of them (not all, nor would I take that chance with a couple of them) even with the State Laws (we have to submit vaccination records to the school in NY).

    We also insisted on preservative free. At least in NY, they must provide that if asked. And check the labels before they give them. Our first (and former) pediatrician tried to sneak one by (honest mistake my foot).

    I don't know the evidence either way is as solid as it needs to be. But, why would I take the chance?

    I do find it humorous that folks that gave vaccines are almost militant about others getting it. I'd expect the anti-vaccines to be that way as they are fighting "the man." But, it's almost like they did something they are unsure of, and want to make sure everyone is forced to take the same risk. :lol:

    If folks kept their sick kids out of school when they are wipping their noses, we'd solve a lot more issues.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 135,947
    i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..

    Why? I wouldn't. As someone else said - when you have kids, it changes everything.

    For my car, I question everything. Why wouldn't I for my children's health and well being?

    .
    i mean,i ask about this matters to specialist ,doctors and nurses have knowledge...
    and i have a very specific person,she is in medicine -health field , i trust her about this matters with my eyes closed...
    ...when it come to kids and health,she is the first i ask..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,216
    I do find it humorous that folks that gave vaccines are almost militant about others getting it. I'd expect the anti-vaccines to be that way as they are fighting "the man." But, it's almost like they did something they are unsure of, and want to make sure everyone is forced to take the same risk. :lol:
    As I said earlier, I think it's up to the parents to make the choice and not me. I just find it that the anti-vaccine parents seem so insistent that no one be required to have vaccinations. I think the people who do vaccinate are reacting to that tone, sort of "Why are you criticizing me for doing what I thought best?" It's not a very courteous debate.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • antares434antares434 Posts: 110
    I do find it humorous that folks that gave vaccines are almost militant about others getting it. I'd expect the anti-vaccines to be that way as they are fighting "the man." But, it's almost like they did something they are unsure of, and want to make sure everyone is forced to take the same risk. :lol:
    As I said earlier, I think it's up to the parents to make the choice and not me. I just find it that the anti-vaccine parents seem so insistent that no one be required to have vaccinations. I think the people who do vaccinate are reacting to that tone, sort of "Why are you criticizing me for doing what I thought best?" It's not a very courteous debate.

    Also, vaccines are less effective when a higher percentage of the population opts out ... this is why certain vaccines are mandatory. You put other people in danger when you don't get your kid vaccinated. Choosing not to vaccinate is a choice you make for every person your sick kid gets in contact with. When your un-vaccinated kid gets sick, then he/she can pass it on to others (even kids who've been vaccinated bc it's not guaranteed to work).
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

    Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?
    http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/


    Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

    Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers findings that since death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Dr. Goldman was also published in the journal Vaccine showing a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

    Both chicken pox and shingles are caused by the same varicella-zoster virus (VZV). Adults receive natural boosting of thier defenses against shingles from contact with children infected with chicken pox.

    Epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping “any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a ‘shingles’ vaccine.” This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

    “Using a shingles vaccine to control shingles epidemics in adults would likely fail because adult vaccination programs have rarely proved successful,” said Goldman. “There appears to be no way to avoid a mass epidemic of shingles lasting as long as several generations among adults.”

    Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.

    The common knowledge within the medical community has assumed the reason the frequency of shingles increased with age is due to the older individuals’ immune systems are declining. However, Goldman’s new research shows the real reason is due to the fact that older people received fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children goes down.

    Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.




    The article speaks as to why the research links the two. Actually it says the more mild
    contact we have with chicken pox the more immune we are to shingles

    In my 56 years I have only known one person to have the horrible illness ... my boyfriend before JB.
    Alan had never had chicken pox as a kid but only shingles at age 25.

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,216
    pandora wrote:
    Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

    Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?
    http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/


    Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.
    So we're supposed to keep exposing ourselves to chicken pox to prevent shingles? I had a severe case when I was a kid and wouldn't care to go through that again.

    Are there other reasons for the increased rates of shingles? Such as an increasingly aging population who are more susceptible? I spent 5 years working with people with AIDS in the early 90s. Shingles was a routine problem for them because of their weakened immune systems. Could that be part of the increase? If the vaccine has only been recommended since 1995, wouldn't we be seeing outbreaks in teenagers?

    Since there's ammunition for just about any argument if you look on the internet, I think I'd like to see a little more evidence. I get it that it's a vaccine that may not be necessary. I'm just not convinced it's the cause of a huge rise in cases of shingles. I've known many people who've had shingles, some fairly young, but not so young that they've had a chicken pox vaccination.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    antares434 wrote:

    Also, vaccines are less effective when a higher percentage of the population opts out ... this is why certain vaccines are mandatory. You put other people in danger when you don't get your kid vaccinated. Choosing not to vaccinate is a choice you make for every person your sick kid gets in contact with. When your un-vaccinated kid gets sick, then he/she can pass it on to others (even kids who've been vaccinated bc it's not guaranteed to work).
    In the case of the chickenpox vaccine it is the opposite so I'm not sure about all vaccines
    research I would have to do to see if this is the cases in any other....


    Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.


    I think the debate is a legitimate one and perhaps all can agree we want the ability to do what is
    right for our own children, have that choice and know the truth.

    If I thought a drug manufacturer was standing to make 200+ million a year
    on a mild childhood illness vaccine I might think that was a strong motive
    to queston how much it was really needed.

    Ultimately we should be able to choose and it seems we can. Research the vaccines.

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • antares434antares434 Posts: 110
    pandora wrote:
    Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

    Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?
    http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/


    Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

    Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers findings that since death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Dr. Goldman was also published in the journal Vaccine showing a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

    Both chicken pox and shingles are caused by the same varicella-zoster virus (VZV). Adults receive natural boosting of thier defenses against shingles from contact with children infected with chicken pox.

    Epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping “any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a ‘shingles’ vaccine.” This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

    “Using a shingles vaccine to control shingles epidemics in adults would likely fail because adult vaccination programs have rarely proved successful,” said Goldman. “There appears to be no way to avoid a mass epidemic of shingles lasting as long as several generations among adults.”

    Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.

    The common knowledge within the medical community has assumed the reason the frequency of shingles increased with age is due to the older individuals’ immune systems are declining. However, Goldman’s new research shows the real reason is due to the fact that older people received fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children goes down.

    Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.




    The article speaks as to why the research links the two. Actually it says the more mild
    contact we have with chicken pox the more immune we are to shingles

    In my 56 years I have only known one person to have the horrible illness ... my boyfriend before JB.
    Alan had never had chicken pox as a kid but only shingles at age 25.

    Goldman is a well-known anti-vaccine advocate.
    http://www.drgoldmanonline.com/
    You are quick to point out conflicts of interest that the evil drug companies have ... do you use the same standard when reading Goldman's stuff?
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

    Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?
    http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/


    Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.
    So we're supposed to keep exposing ourselves to chicken pox to prevent shingles? I had a severe case when I was a kid and wouldn't care to go through that again.

    Are there other reasons for the increased rates of shingles? Such as an increasingly aging population who are more susceptible? I spent 5 years working with people with AIDS in the early 90s. Shingles was a routine problem for them because of their weakened immune systems. Could that be part of the increase? If the vaccine has only been recommended since 1995, wouldn't we be seeing outbreaks in teenagers?

    Since there's ammunition for just about any argument if you look on the internet, I think I'd like to see a little more evidence. I get it that it's a vaccine that may not be necessary. I'm just not convinced it's the cause of a huge rise in cases of shingles. I've known many people who've had shingles, some fairly young, but not so young that they've had a chicken pox vaccination.
    The studies suggest that no it is not lessened immune system it is lessened mild contact with
    chickenpox... ie kids aren't having the pox anymore.

    High school incidents have risen but now there is a vaccine for shingles ...
    and it is suggested of course.

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..

    Why? I wouldn't. As someone else said - when you have kids, it changes everything.

    For my car, I question everything. Why wouldn't I for my children's health and well being?

    .
    i mean,i ask about this matters to specialist ,doctors and nurses have knowledge...
    and i have a very specific person,she is in medicine -health field , i trust her about this matters with my eyes closed...
    ...when it come to kids and health,she is the first i ask..

    Ah!! Gotcha. That makes sense.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    antares434 wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

    Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?
    http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008 ... les-cases/


    Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

    Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers findings that since death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Dr. Goldman was also published in the journal Vaccine showing a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

    Both chicken pox and shingles are caused by the same varicella-zoster virus (VZV). Adults receive natural boosting of thier defenses against shingles from contact with children infected with chicken pox.

    Epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping “any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a ‘shingles’ vaccine.” This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

    “Using a shingles vaccine to control shingles epidemics in adults would likely fail because adult vaccination programs have rarely proved successful,” said Goldman. “There appears to be no way to avoid a mass epidemic of shingles lasting as long as several generations among adults.”

    Goldman’s analysis in IJT indicates that effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself is also dependent on natural boosting, so that as chickenpox declines, so does the effectiveness of the vaccine.

    The common knowledge within the medical community has assumed the reason the frequency of shingles increased with age is due to the older individuals’ immune systems are declining. However, Goldman’s new research shows the real reason is due to the fact that older people received fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children goes down.

    Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.




    The article speaks as to why the research links the two. Actually it says the more mild
    contact we have with chicken pox the more immune we are to shingles

    In my 56 years I have only known one person to have the horrible illness ... my boyfriend before JB.
    Alan had never had chicken pox as a kid but only shingles at age 25.

    Goldman is a well-known anti-vaccine advocate.
    http://www.drgoldmanonline.com/
    You are quick to point out conflicts of interest that the evil drug companies have ... do you use the same standard when reading Goldman's stuff?
    Cool website I hadn't done research on him yet. Thanks!

    Are you suggesting he is unethical?

    Is he not an anti vaccine Doctor because he has done studies to the dangers
    of vaccines?

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • antares434 wrote:
    I do find it humorous that folks that gave vaccines are almost militant about others getting it. I'd expect the anti-vaccines to be that way as they are fighting "the man." But, it's almost like they did something they are unsure of, and want to make sure everyone is forced to take the same risk. :lol:
    As I said earlier, I think it's up to the parents to make the choice and not me. I just find it that the anti-vaccine parents seem so insistent that no one be required to have vaccinations. I think the people who do vaccinate are reacting to that tone, sort of "Why are you criticizing me for doing what I thought best?" It's not a very courteous debate.

    Also, vaccines are less effective when a higher percentage of the population opts out ... this is why certain vaccines are mandatory. You put other people in danger when you don't get your kid vaccinated. Choosing not to vaccinate is a choice you make for every person your sick kid gets in contact with. When your un-vaccinated kid gets sick, then he/she can pass it on to others (even kids who've been vaccinated bc it's not guaranteed to work).

    So, wait. Now we're suggesting we do stuff the may not work or even make our kids get what we are immunizing against? :?

    I knew that part - that's a big part of the reason that I think some of them don't need to be done - where does the risk outweigh the risk, and who gives anyone the right to tell me one risk is more or less than another when nobody can really quantify the risks? Again - polio - I get it. Risks weighed. Chicken pox - boo hoo!! Your child gets it b/c mines not vaccinated and yours didn't work. Why'd your kid give my kid strep? Carrying strep around can cause heart damage. I want that vaccine!!!! (no I don't)

    Natural Immunity > Artificial Immunity (i.e. getting chicken pox on your own provides greater immunity in vast majorities than the vaccines) And with other potential risks involved, don't MAKE me take that risk with my child.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Infant Vaccines Produce Autism Symptoms In Baby Primates

    Presented at the International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR) in London, England, the findings revealed that young macaque monkeys given the typical CDC-recommended vaccination schedule from the 1990s, and in appropriate doses for the monkeys’ sizes and ages, tended to develop autism symptoms.

    Their unvaccinated counterparts, on the other hand, developed no such symptoms, which points to a strong connection between vaccines and autism spectrum disorders.

    Included in the mix were several vaccines containing the toxic additive Thimerosal, a mercury-based compound that has been phased out of some vaccines, but is still present in batch-size influenza vaccines and a few others.

    Also administered was the controversial measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, which has been linked time and time again to causing autism and various other serious, and often irreversible, health problems in children, “This research underscores the critical need for more investigation into immunizations, mercury, and the alterations seen in autistic children,” said Lyn Redwood, director ofSafeMinds, a public safety group working to expose the truth about vaccines and autism.

    “SafeMinds calls for large scale, unbiased studies that look at autism medical conditions and the effects of vaccines given as a regimen.”


    http://www.infowars.com/vaccine-bombshell-baby-monkeys-given-popular-vaccines-develop-autism-symptoms/

    http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Infant-Vaccines-Produce-Autism-Symptoms-In-Primates


    “The full implications of this primate study await publication of the research in a scientific journal,” said Wrangham. “But we can say that it demonstrates how the CDC evaded their responsibility to investigate vaccine safety questions. Vaccine safety oversight should be removed from the CDC and given to an independent agency”
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    thanks Idris ....
    Oh wow that is the study we needed before the vaccines were administered. :wtf:

    I saw on the morning news about the Autistic boom of adults now ...

    http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/05/14 ... ic-adults/

    If in fact these vaccines are proven, not just suspected, shit will hit the fan
    and rightfully so.

    Again big pharmie making big bucks while the govt looks the other way,
    allowing the taxpayers and families to suffer, this is unforgivable.

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • iluvcatsiluvcats Posts: 5,153
    When I had my tetanus booster, I think it was 3 shots in one (things I've never heard of and whooping cough.)

    one of my relatives recently had shingles and she said she never had chicken pox. her dr told her that 1 little bump can count as it and maybe they were unaware she had cp. but shingles sound horrible from what she went through.
    9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
    8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
    10/10 - Brad in B'more
  • looloolooloolooloo Posts: 378
    No disrespect to legit scientists who strive to find a cause and cure for Autism, but the articles cited above refer back to Dr. Wakefield, who has since lost his medical license, after manipulating data and other unethical actions that caused a hysteria over vaccines and their relationship to autism. The previously posted monkey study scared me, so I looked it up and read it. I do a bit of medical research outside of Pearl Jam land, and in my opinion, this study doesn't have two legs to stand on....

    *****lots of typing and deleting and typing and deleting- oh my!!!*****

    ok, I was just trying to explain why I thought this study was full of holes, when I decided to just look on my trusty pubmed to see if someone replicated this study and found the same results. Not surprisingly, I found another published article, in the same journal, exposing the flaws of the cited study and basically calling any conclusions "unwarranted." You can read the analysis of the study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21499334.1
    (free full text pdf, click on the box at the top right...Considering I don't have a PhD or MD, those guys are a bit more convincing than me.)

    Believe me, everyone has an agenda. Drug companies, our government, you, and me. It's important to stand up for what you believe in, but it is a rare thing to find an absolute right and absolute wrong. Look at ALL the facts before making a decision, and more importantly, before shouting that opinion to the world/internet.

    (I'm not saying anyone is shouting here.)

    Goodnight and take care.
    "Sun sets on this ocean- never once on my devotion."

    "If I had this guy's voice, you could all kiss my ass."
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    loolooloo wrote:
    No disrespect to legit scientists who strive to find a cause and cure for Autism, but the articles cited above refer back to Dr. Wakefield, who has since lost his medical license, after manipulating data and other unethical actions that caused a hysteria over vaccines and their relationship to autism. The previously posted monkey study scared me, so I looked it up and read it. I do a bit of medical research outside of Pearl Jam land, and in my opinion, this study doesn't have two legs to stand on....

    *****lots of typing and deleting and typing and deleting- oh my!!!*****

    ok, I was just trying to explain why I thought this study was full of holes, when I decided to just look on my trusty pubmed to see if someone replicated this study and found the same results. Not surprisingly, I found another published article, in the same journal, exposing the flaws of the cited study and basically calling any conclusions "unwarranted." You can read the analysis of the study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21499334.1
    (free full text pdf, click on the box at the top right...Considering I don't have a PhD or MD, those guys are a bit more convincing than me.)

    Believe me, everyone has an agenda. Drug companies, our government, you, and me. It's important to stand up for what you believe in, but it is a rare thing to find an absolute right and absolute wrong. Look at ALL the facts before making a decision, and more importantly, before shouting that opinion to the world/internet.

    (I'm not saying anyone is shouting here.)

    Goodnight and take care.
    Key is to remember it is an opinion not fact so pretty much anyone can and should give that
    if they desire.

    This study though has brought some interesting facts to light ...
    facts that some will dispell because of the damage it will do monetarily
    to industry and govt alike.

    If it should be proven for a fact that vaccines in the past have indeed caused
    autism would anybody really be that surprised?

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    “I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole and I was a shit head.”
    big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
    big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,845
    chadwick said:

    when i do buy deodorant, why does the deodorant i buy say across the bar/container
    as always "aluminum free" and we donate to breast cancer research (in actuality they show the breast cancer ribbon symbol vs' spelling out an entire sentence...)

    i have not purchased aluminum based deodorants in a very long time. i feel sorry for those people out there that use that junk. to me they are brainwashed and haven't a fucking idea at all as to what they are smearing on their underarm.

    for years i didn't even use deodorant until i found the natural stuff i use today.

    go ahead...inject your kids with some bullshit the government says is ok....

    The thing about anti-perspirant/aluminum in it causing breast cancer is just a widespread myth. Even the American Cancer Society dispells this stupid rumour:

    http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/antiperspirants-and-breast-cancer-risk
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    PJ_Soul said:

    chadwick said:

    when i do buy deodorant, why does the deodorant i buy say across the bar/container
    as always "aluminum free" and we donate to breast cancer research (in actuality they show the breast cancer ribbon symbol vs' spelling out an entire sentence...)

    i have not purchased aluminum based deodorants in a very long time. i feel sorry for those people out there that use that junk. to me they are brainwashed and haven't a fucking idea at all as to what they are smearing on their underarm.

    for years i didn't even use deodorant until i found the natural stuff i use today.

    go ahead...inject your kids with some bullshit the government says is ok....

    The thing about anti-perspirant/aluminum in it causing breast cancer is just a widespread myth. Even the American Cancer Society dispells this stupid rumour:

    http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/antiperspirants-and-breast-cancer-risk
    if the cause(s) of breast cancer are unknown, how can it be claimed something doesn't cause breast cancer?

    http://www.cancer.org/cancer/breastcancer/detailedguide/breast-cancer-what-causes
    “I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole and I was a shit head.”
    big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
    big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,440
    JC29856 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    chadwick said:

    when i do buy deodorant, why does the deodorant i buy say across the bar/container
    as always "aluminum free" and we donate to breast cancer research (in actuality they show the breast cancer ribbon symbol vs' spelling out an entire sentence...)

    i have not purchased aluminum based deodorants in a very long time. i feel sorry for those people out there that use that junk. to me they are brainwashed and haven't a fucking idea at all as to what they are smearing on their underarm.

    for years i didn't even use deodorant until i found the natural stuff i use today.

    go ahead...inject your kids with some bullshit the government says is ok....

    The thing about anti-perspirant/aluminum in it causing breast cancer is just a widespread myth. Even the American Cancer Society dispells this stupid rumour:

    http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/antiperspirants-and-breast-cancer-risk
    if the cause(s) of breast cancer are unknown, how can it be claimed something doesn't cause breast cancer?

    http://www.cancer.org/cancer/breastcancer/detailedguide/breast-cancer-what-causes
    Because there is no evidence that it does. By your logic anyone could claim anything causes breast cancer and we can't refute it because we don't know what does cause it.

    By actual logic we can still claim we don't know what causes it, but we can know things that are unlikely to cause or contribute to it. Like aluminum in antiperspirants. No scientific evidence exists, so PJ Soul is correct at this point. Maybe some day we'll have a different answer based on scientific evidence. Who knows. But for now it is silly to believe (faith vs. science) that aluminum in antiperspirants causes breast cancer. Or that vaccinations cause autism. Or that the earth is 6,000 years old.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    twisted logic...
    not 1 single thing can be or will ever be proven to directly cause cancer, any cancer.
    whatever doesn't kill you instantly is generally safe... aluminum lead mercury

    where is the scientific research/evidence that says aluminum doesn't cause cancer anyway?
    “I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole and I was a shit head.”
    big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
    big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,845
    How about there being no evident correlation at all between the use of anti-perspirant and cancer??
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,440
    JC29856 said:

    twisted logic...
    not 1 single thing can be or will ever be proven to directly cause cancer, any cancer.
    whatever doesn't kill you instantly is generally safe... aluminum lead mercury

    where is the scientific research/evidence that says aluminum doesn't cause cancer anyway?

    The burden of proof is on the people making claims about what does cause it. If aluminum causes it, show me the scientific evidence. If it is something you chose to believe, just say that. You are allowed to believe anything you want.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,130
    Anti vaccine advocates are idiots.

    Measles outbreak in the U.S.A

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/vaccine-critics-turn-defensive-over-measles.html?
  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    yea the local news here has been showing a story about some college student that took the train from manhattan to upstate with the specific train number and shit so anyone who was there can go flocking to their doctors. I'm thankful I was vaccinated as a child.
    The only thing I will say though, is that I've been cautious about the new vaccines. About 18 years ago they started with the Hepatitis vaccine in schools and I only got the first two doses. I skipped the last dose because the first two made me really, really, really fuckin sick. Like bedridden and puking for a week with 103+ fever sick. I just refused to go through it a third time. They tried telling me that the shot didn't give me that fever but I mean twice in a row the day after the shot I start getting sick? And it's the same symptoms both times? I honestly didn't even care if it was related I just wasn't risking it and they couldn't force me to take it.
    The other new one, the HPV vaccine came out after I was already out of school so no one could force it on me. I didn't want to get it right away (even though someone close to me had it and didn't find out until they had to cut some cancerous cells out of her cervix) because I figured it made more sense to let other people go first and see if there's any problems. I was only just offered it for the first time last year by a doctor. I can't remember if I took it or not. All I remember was that damn booster shot that made my arm useless for two days. And I don't remember what it was boosting! :)) I'm dumb
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,845
    Wow, crazy. I had absolutely no side effects from the Hep A and B vaccine at all and never heard from anyone who had any at the time. Sounds like you had some kind of allergic reaction maybe. Sucks for you, but that means there is nothing wrong with the vaccine.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mca47mca47 Posts: 12,564
    Weighing the benefit vs harm that can come from a vaccine, you are quite stupid if you don't vaccinate your kids.
  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    PJ_Soul wrote: »
    Wow, crazy. I had absolutely no side effects from the Hep A and B vaccine at all and never heard from anyone who had any at the time. Sounds like you had some kind of allergic reaction maybe. Sucks for you, but that means there is nothing wrong with the vaccine.

    I think what you mean is that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the vaccine. Which I agree with. It was just an unfortunate reaction/coincidence. Certainly hasn't put me off vaccines at all. It's so stupid how there's poor children all over the world dying from or suffering with diseases cuz they don't have access to the vaccines for but meanwhile privileged folks over here are turning their nose up at them because conspiracy!
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
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  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SCPosts: 8,661
    edited February 2015
    VACCINATE YOUR KIDS

    Don't be a douche
    Post edited by Last-12-Exit on
    Jealousy is ugly.
    Elistist Fucking Asshole.

    Mine is mine and yours won't take its place.

    Noblesville 8-17-98
    Jacksonville 11-25-12 EV
    Charlotte 10-30-13
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