Vaccinate your kids?

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  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    edited April 2017
    Here's the thing. It boils down to choice. For the guy whose kids got everything under the sun naturally.. that's really scary that you laugh that off as if it was nothing. The reason those other kids didn't get that? Vaccines. If THEY hadn't been vaccinated, at least a majority of them would likely have come down with the Mumps. It is cause and effect plain and simple. I agree, there is mass hysteria that comes from both sides. But the truth is, we live in far too close proximity of one another to be fucking around with the general well being of all involved. These are serious diseases that cause life long affects. They destroy brain, nerve, and muscle tissues, leaving permanent attributes to the sufferer, if not death. Somewhere along the line, we have gotten comfortable with healthy being the norm, and we have forgotten how quickly these infections spread. So much so, that we tend to forget just enough to go on rants about how dangerous these vacs are vs how helpful they are. Can they cause Autism, absofuckinglutely not! Autism is a disruption in the genetic strand. PERIOD. It is not a virus, or an infection.. it is miscoded genomes. You can't catch that. It can develop over time.. as the code in your genes develop minus some key components, which is what causes Autism ; this is to the best of our knowledge so far.
    Vaccines are in the general sense better for society as a whole, as it maintains populous health. Homeopathy is a less guided, more intellectual form of treatment that requires MUCH study, and regularly updated info. It is not something you 'just do'. As for the generalized ideal that vaccines are for the best, or for the weak of mind, is a decision you have to make on your own. There is no proof that they are dangerous, but there is a huge mass of proof of how effective they are. Do your homework, figure it out.
    Post edited by whispering hands on
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    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864
    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    edited April 2017
    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted. Like I said above, there is so much more to homeopathy than most people realize. There is a LOT of education required to fully understand the full principles of it. Like I said before.. it works great for minor ailments.
    Post edited by whispering hands on
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864
    Also, Frosty could probably use some pot too lol
    Probably help his joints as well! Great natural anti-inflamatory.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    rgambs said:

    Also, Frosty could probably use some pot too lol
    Probably help his joints as well! Great natural anti-inflamatory.

    Horses don't smoke though. Lol
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    edited April 2017
    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Ok. True. But I also know that not all homeopathy requires dilution. I know this because I work with a homeopath that INSISTS that what she does stands above all chemical compounds. I find that very hard to believe. However, I see where some of her strategies are far healthier than say aspirin or god forbid acetaminophen.. ( this was originally created by a vet to reduce fever in cattle!!) . But she does not always dilute.
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864

    rgambs said:

    Also, Frosty could probably use some pot too lol
    Probably help his joints as well! Great natural anti-inflamatory.

    Horses don't smoke though. Lol
    No, and they probably shouldn't. You could shotgun him a vape, but I feel like you might get headbutted. I dunno, don't know any horses lol Edibles would be difficult to dose, but someday the research will be done and animals will be able to benefit from marijuana as well.
    I don't just discount anything that isn't a pill, that's not my bag, but there is some ridiculous pseudo-science out there that grinds my gears.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Ok. True. But I also know that not all homeopathy requires dilution. I know this because I work with a homeopath that INSISTS that what she does stands above all chemical compounds. I find that very hard to believe. However, I see where some of her strategies are far healthier than say aspirin or god forbid acetaminophen.. ( this was originally created by a vet to reduce fever in cattle!!) . But she does not always dilute.
    There are nowadays homeopaths that don't dilute, and they do produce some efficacious substances, but then the question is really if that's even homeopathy.
    Aspirin is a concentrated and standardised pharmaceutical version of the old willow bark tea. There are some reasons why willow bark tea might be preferable for your health, but the whole idea behind pharmaceuticals is to take something curative that has potential danger from it's highly variable dosing and preparation, and turn it into something that is standardised, thereby eliminating some of the danger while increasing the efficacy.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    Also, Frosty could probably use some pot too lol
    Probably help his joints as well! Great natural anti-inflamatory.

    Horses don't smoke though. Lol
    No, and they probably shouldn't. You could shotgun him a vape, but I feel like you might get headbutted. I dunno, don't know any horses lol Edibles would be difficult to dose, but someday the research will be done and animals will be able to benefit from marijuana as well.
    I don't just discount anything that isn't a pill, that's not my bag, but there is some ridiculous pseudo-science out there that grinds my gears.
    I have put the salve on her "proud flesh"( horses get hyper scarring on injuries occurring on their legs, it is blood fed flesh that just keeps growing and breaking off, causing terrible bleeding. We call this proud flesh), and it has decelerated the growth exponentially! However at $45 per 4oz jar, that is mighty expensive.
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Ok. True. But I also know that not all homeopathy requires dilution. I know this because I work with a homeopath that INSISTS that what she does stands above all chemical compounds. I find that very hard to believe. However, I see where some of her strategies are far healthier than say aspirin or god forbid acetaminophen.. ( this was originally created by a vet to reduce fever in cattle!!) . But she does not always dilute.
    There are nowadays homeopaths that don't dilute, and they do produce some efficacious substances, but then the question is really if that's even homeopathy.
    Aspirin is a concentrated and standardised pharmaceutical version of the old willow bark tea. There are some reasons why willow bark tea might be preferable for your health, but the whole idea behind pharmaceuticals is to take something curative that has potential danger from it's highly variable dosing and preparation, and turn it into something that is standardised, thereby eliminating some of the danger while increasing the efficacy.
    I was under the impression that aspirin came from Aspen bark?
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Ok. True. But I also know that not all homeopathy requires dilution. I know this because I work with a homeopath that INSISTS that what she does stands above all chemical compounds. I find that very hard to believe. However, I see where some of her strategies are far healthier than say aspirin or god forbid acetaminophen.. ( this was originally created by a vet to reduce fever in cattle!!) . But she does not always dilute.
    There are nowadays homeopaths that don't dilute, and they do produce some efficacious substances, but then the question is really if that's even homeopathy.
    Aspirin is a concentrated and standardised pharmaceutical version of the old willow bark tea. There are some reasons why willow bark tea might be preferable for your health, but the whole idea behind pharmaceuticals is to take something curative that has potential danger from it's highly variable dosing and preparation, and turn it into something that is standardised, thereby eliminating some of the danger while increasing the efficacy.
    I was under the impression that aspirin came from Aspen bark?
    We have mad restrictions up here regarding Aspen harvesting. 90% of the harvests are for the bark; citing medicinal usage as aspirin. I guess they are both analgesic in properties?
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,879
    edited April 2017

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Ok. True. But I also know that not all homeopathy requires dilution. I know this because I work with a homeopath that INSISTS that what she does stands above all chemical compounds. I find that very hard to believe. However, I see where some of her strategies are far healthier than say aspirin or god forbid acetaminophen.. ( this was originally created by a vet to reduce fever in cattle!!) . But she does not always dilute.
    There are nowadays homeopaths that don't dilute, and they do produce some efficacious substances, but then the question is really if that's even homeopathy.
    Aspirin is a concentrated and standardised pharmaceutical version of the old willow bark tea. There are some reasons why willow bark tea might be preferable for your health, but the whole idea behind pharmaceuticals is to take something curative that has potential danger from it's highly variable dosing and preparation, and turn it into something that is standardised, thereby eliminating some of the danger while increasing the efficacy.
    I was under the impression that aspirin came from Aspen bark?
    No, original source for derivation of salicylic acid was willow bark
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Ok. True. But I also know that not all homeopathy requires dilution. I know this because I work with a homeopath that INSISTS that what she does stands above all chemical compounds. I find that very hard to believe. However, I see where some of her strategies are far healthier than say aspirin or god forbid acetaminophen.. ( this was originally created by a vet to reduce fever in cattle!!) . But she does not always dilute.
    There are nowadays homeopaths that don't dilute, and they do produce some efficacious substances, but then the question is really if that's even homeopathy.
    Aspirin is a concentrated and standardised pharmaceutical version of the old willow bark tea. There are some reasons why willow bark tea might be preferable for your health, but the whole idea behind pharmaceuticals is to take something curative that has potential danger from it's highly variable dosing and preparation, and turn it into something that is standardised, thereby eliminating some of the danger while increasing the efficacy.
    I was under the impression that aspirin came from Aspen bark?
    Hmmm I dunno, I know Willow and Wintergreen for sure, maybe Aspen has salycalates too.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    MayDay10 said:

    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?

    The basis for homeopathy is that "like cures like", but it has more to do with "vital force" and "miasmas" than having an effect on the natural healing process as it actually functions.

    Many many homeopathic remedies don't operate on this principle though, or the likeness is only obvious to those in the homeopathic echo chamber.
    For instance, Oscillococcinum, a homeopathic flu remedy available in every drug store, is made from duck liver. Duck liver dissolved in solution and then diluted to 200C.
    "As there are only about 10 to the 80th power atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10 to the 320th power more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
    This isn't totally correct. There are several instances in which many elements are not diluted at all. Like Hawthorne. I use Hawthorne every day on Frosty's joints. The thistle is mashed up, and spread across her hocks every morning. It reduces swelling, muscular inflammation, and aids in pain relief, via osmosis. I also
    Use it in combination with the smoking of pot to help with serious pain in my hands. So not always diluted.
    Not homeopathic. Just herbal, and if used properly and with proper expectations, a perfectly viable part of a healthcare strategy.
    Ok. True. But I also know that not all homeopathy requires dilution. I know this because I work with a homeopath that INSISTS that what she does stands above all chemical compounds. I find that very hard to believe. However, I see where some of her strategies are far healthier than say aspirin or god forbid acetaminophen.. ( this was originally created by a vet to reduce fever in cattle!!) . But she does not always dilute.
    There are nowadays homeopaths that don't dilute, and they do produce some efficacious substances, but then the question is really if that's even homeopathy.
    Aspirin is a concentrated and standardised pharmaceutical version of the old willow bark tea. There are some reasons why willow bark tea might be preferable for your health, but the whole idea behind pharmaceuticals is to take something curative that has potential danger from it's highly variable dosing and preparation, and turn it into something that is standardised, thereby eliminating some of the danger while increasing the efficacy.
    I was under the impression that aspirin came from Aspen bark?
    No, original source for derivation of salicylic acid was willow bark
    Ok. I just know the communes up in Manitou harvest Aspen bark every year for analgesic citation. They are limited as to what they may harvest from the surrounding forest.
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    Well that makes sense. Both Willow and Aspen have powdery barks.. and according to the manifest of the logging sheets at the FS for the Aspen harvesting, they use it for medicine and cite shaving off the powdery part, and then boiling it down. They use it for everything.. lol so I just thought that was where it came from. Totally
    Misinformed
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,879
    Well, it's a biological compound. It may well be present in many plants for all I know. It's just that it was first isolated from willow barkl.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    That's good to know.
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864

    Well that makes sense. Both Willow and Aspen have powdery barks.. and according to the manifest of the logging sheets at the FS for the Aspen harvesting, they use it for medicine and cite shaving off the powdery part, and then boiling it down. They use it for everything.. lol so I just thought that was where it came from. Totally
    Misinformed

    The briefest of Google searches (didn't even click the links) is showing me Aspen bark is valued as a natural preservative at least.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,122

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    As a qualifier my wife has her PhD in immunology. Based on what you have said here I don't think you understand how scientific funding and research works.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864
    dignin said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    As a qualifier my wife has her PhD in immunology. Based on what you have said here I don't think you understand how scientific funding and research works.
    Some folks don't realise how insulting they are to those in science fields, even people who don't actively do research are slighted when people misunderstand, misrepresent, and malign the entirety​ of scientific method with populist skepticism.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • AnnafalkAnnafalk SwedenPosts: 3,840
    edited April 2017
    Looks like the horrible disease Polio soon will be defeated thanks to good vaccination programs :)
    Post edited by Annafalk on
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,122
    edited April 2017
    rgambs said:

    dignin said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    As a qualifier my wife has her PhD in immunology. Based on what you have said here I don't think you understand how scientific funding and research works.
    Some folks don't realise how insulting they are to those in science fields, even people who don't actively do research are slighted when people misunderstand, misrepresent, and malign the entirety​ of scientific method with populist skepticism.
    It's ignorance. And it's always the same old song and dance about how they have done their "research" and we should too. No, I'm sorry, my wife has done her research, almost every day for 10+ years. That's her job, she's a professional working in the field. Spending a couple hours every few months or years searching for articles that confirm your bias does not qualify as research.
  • JS81606JS81606 Posts: 72
    If I give a a flu shot to an older or younger person who has a compromised immune system, how does that compromised immune system develop immunity if it is compromised? Some people die each year, but not the numbers you may believe or think. I have spent 25 plus years researching and nothing in my research convinces me that vaccines do what they say they do, are inherently good, and the claims behind them are absolute lies. As for funding, we only fund that which we want to validate, and the info that is found to contradict, we toss to the side and cherry pick our research. I have gathered it all, not just vaccines, but he ingredients in them researched. If I test one adjuvant and find it is toxic, I am not allowed to say this adjuvant is bad? But since in is in vaccine and given by pediatrician, all nasty effects are negated. Interesting? I have posted articles, not mine, not big pharma, but peer reviewed and most ignore. Okay. I see post for article that was shown to be invalid because they cherry picked the information. The gene theory of autism, please show conclusive research. Autism is a condition of encephalopathy (please dispute if not) and yet, we are led to believe we are genetically programmed to inflame our brain to dysfunction all on our own.. That in itself is a great survival trait. Glad my relatives only could run faster than the biggest predator or throw a spear with accuracy. The teacher laughed cuz it was not a big deal, she had mumps herself and lived to become a teacher. She and her family had a healthy immune system, they thrive now because it worked like it was programmed to do. If a vaccinated kid gets the mumps, their immune system is shit, crap, does not work as well as the fake immunity from the jab is a life saver.! If I am wearing a bullet proof vest that stops .38 bullets, and you fire one at me, at the vest I am wearing, and i get inured, is it the fault of the bullet or the vest? The vest said it would protect me, yet it didn't. This is why we see outbreaks of the measles all over the US, the virus is mutating and evolving faster than our own immune system. If that is the recipe for success, count me out. If it scares you so, then by all means jab your kids until they are "safe"!
  • JS81606JS81606 Posts: 72
    Also, I would encourage all the individuals who know so much regarding autism and its genetic link, read the Harvard Autopsy report regarding the autistic brains they researched and what they found. You will not find this in main stream media.
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,122
    JS81606 said:

    If I give a a flu shot to an older or younger person who has a compromised immune system, how does that compromised immune system develop immunity if it is compromised? Some people die each year, but not the numbers you may believe or think. I have spent 25 plus years researching and nothing in my research convinces me that vaccines do what they say they do, are inherently good, and the claims behind them are absolute lies. As for funding, we only fund that which we want to validate, and the info that is found to contradict, we toss to the side and cherry pick our research. I have gathered it all, not just vaccines, but he ingredients in them researched. If I test one adjuvant and find it is toxic, I am not allowed to say this adjuvant is bad? But since in is in vaccine and given by pediatrician, all nasty effects are negated. Interesting? I have posted articles, not mine, not big pharma, but peer reviewed and most ignore. Okay. I see post for article that was shown to be invalid because they cherry picked the information. The gene theory of autism, please show conclusive research. Autism is a condition of encephalopathy (please dispute if not) and yet, we are led to believe we are genetically programmed to inflame our brain to dysfunction all on our own.. That in itself is a great survival trait. Glad my relatives only could run faster than the biggest predator or throw a spear with accuracy. The teacher laughed cuz it was not a big deal, she had mumps herself and lived to become a teacher. She and her family had a healthy immune system, they thrive now because it worked like it was programmed to do. If a vaccinated kid gets the mumps, their immune system is shit, crap, does not work as well as the fake immunity from the jab is a life saver.! If I am wearing a bullet proof vest that stops .38 bullets, and you fire one at me, at the vest I am wearing, and i get inured, is it the fault of the bullet or the vest? The vest said it would protect me, yet it didn't. This is why we see outbreaks of the measles all over the US, the virus is mutating and evolving faster than our own immune system. If that is the recipe for success, count me out. If it scares you so, then by all means jab your kids until they are "safe"!

    25 years working in a lab, writing papers? At what institution? Who were your supervisors? I'm curious, what was the subject of your thesis and what conclusion did you come to? Where did you get your funding from? What peer reviewed journals published your papers? I would be interested to read them.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,739
    rgambs said:

    tbergs said:

    rgambs said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    Homeopathy??? That's literal insanity.
    Why is it insanity? If someone has found a method of care and treatment that works for them, then why not? I've seen you reference the usage of herbal and psychotropic drugs on here and several think that is insanity, but it's your body and you are allowed to ingest whatever you choose so why can't natural remedies and homeopathic medicine be someone else's "drug" of choice.

    I prefer not to ingest pharmaceutical produced substances unless there's no other option. Our society has become too dependent on just going to a Walgreens or CVS at any hour of the day and picking any one of 1,000+ medication cocktails of varying degrees and unrecognizable chemical ingredients. We can't get weed legalized, but we hand out painkillers strong enough to render you unconscious for hours and addicted for life.
    You are just out of your depth here.
    Psychotropic drugs have been proven to have quantifiable effects on human physiology.
    Homeopathy is ridiculous idiocy.
    Do you even know what homeopathy is???
    I think you don't. Here's a quick summary of moronism for you...
    You take a substance that is not known to cure an ailment, dilute it so far that there are literally no molecules of the "curative" agent left in the treatment, and beat it off a Bible a few thousand times to change it's chakras, so that you can treat fictitious "miasmas".

    It has been resoundingly debunked by every form of scientific inquiry from common sense up to advanced clinical trial.
    I knew this topic would get hostile and insulting no matter how I approached it, but I was hoping for a more civil and respectful response. Arrogant attitudes of superiority are why we have our current political admin. Remember that the next time you respond to someone who chooses to be different from you.

    Have good day :smile:
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,864
    tbergs said:

    rgambs said:

    tbergs said:

    rgambs said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    Homeopathy??? That's literal insanity.
    Why is it insanity? If someone has found a method of care and treatment that works for them, then why not? I've seen you reference the usage of herbal and psychotropic drugs on here and several think that is insanity, but it's your body and you are allowed to ingest whatever you choose so why can't natural remedies and homeopathic medicine be someone else's "drug" of choice.

    I prefer not to ingest pharmaceutical produced substances unless there's no other option. Our society has become too dependent on just going to a Walgreens or CVS at any hour of the day and picking any one of 1,000+ medication cocktails of varying degrees and unrecognizable chemical ingredients. We can't get weed legalized, but we hand out painkillers strong enough to render you unconscious for hours and addicted for life.
    You are just out of your depth here.
    Psychotropic drugs have been proven to have quantifiable effects on human physiology.
    Homeopathy is ridiculous idiocy.
    Do you even know what homeopathy is???
    I think you don't. Here's a quick summary of moronism for you...
    You take a substance that is not known to cure an ailment, dilute it so far that there are literally no molecules of the "curative" agent left in the treatment, and beat it off a Bible a few thousand times to change it's chakras, so that you can treat fictitious "miasmas".

    It has been resoundingly debunked by every form of scientific inquiry from common sense up to advanced clinical trial.
    I knew this topic would get hostile and insulting no matter how I approached it, but I was hoping for a more civil and respectful response. Arrogant attitudes of superiority are why we have our current political admin. Remember that the next time you respond to someone who chooses to be different from you.

    Have good day :smile:
    Your avatar is sweet! Nice mountains. Where is Monitor Ridge?

    Homeopathy does not deserve respect.
    Bigotry does not deserve respect.
    Racism does not deserve respect.

    I would rather have one hundred years of Trumps and the end of America than bow down to those who want respect for their deplorable attitudes.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,216
    Annafalk said:

    Looks like the horrible disease Polio soon will be defeated thanks to good vaccination programs :)

    I'm one of those older people with a smallpox vaccination scar on my arm. Another vaccine that eradicated one of humankind's most deadly diseases.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,553
    JS81606 said:

    Also, I would encourage all the individuals who know so much regarding autism and its genetic link, read the Harvard Autopsy report regarding the autistic brains they researched and what they found. You will not find this in main stream media.

    I don't know how anyone would "know so much" about autism, given that its definition keeps changing. My child was given an Asperger Syndrome dx, along with the more obvious, profound, disorders that he has; per revised definitions, AS no longer is a "thing," yet those behaviors still exist independent of a diagnosis. Are they a sub-set of autism? Are they actually within the boundaries of neurotypical behavior? How will they be viewed in five years? Unlike diabetes or cancer, autism is not a clear-cut diagnosis obtained via bloodwork or biopsy.

    My child does not have autism. He has multiple neurological disorders stemming from one condition which, yes, really is known to be genetic -- the symptoms of which can be traced back at least five generations on my side of the family (that's long before the advent of vaccines).

    My husband has a PhD along with more than two decades of experience in the medical device field. He has done his research, in peer-reviewed journals, not in People magazine or USA Today, and not in "alternative" media sources. He has worked closely with federal agencies. He is a good man, in all ways, who has saved countless lives and improved millions more. When you suggest that there is some closely-held government-industrial conspiracy to poison our children, you are slandering people like him who work hard, every day, to be a force for good in the world. And, by association, you are insinuating that he (and I) would willingly poison our own children for the sake of the company's bottom line. This is offensive, to say the least.

    You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts. The fact is, Wakefield is a fraud, and this has been proven. The fact is, measles killed people -- so did smallpox, so does the flu. These are facts. They are no more open to debate than the shape of the Earth or the lunar landings are.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
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