Vaccinate your kids?

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  • youngsteryoungster BostonPosts: 6,574
    pandora wrote:

    "Vaccines are promoted primarily to generate profits for manufacturers and financial donations for medical organizations that endorse vaccines. In 2003, a House Committee on Government Reform report revealed that the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices had members with significant financial ties to vaccine companies. The American Academy of Pediatrics, a leading pro-vaccination organization, receives millions of dollars from vaccine companies. "
    http://vaccines.procon.org/

    granted a decade ago but do we think anything has changed?

    Absolutely not Pandora. In fact I bet it has gotten worse.
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

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  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 7,343
    I was a weird kid - maybe they would've diagnosed me with autism nowadays. :? I'm a mostly normal adult now. :lol:
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  • You can (And should) insist on vaccines without perservatives. They must accommodate. There may be no link, but why even take the risk.

    I'm not against all vaccines, but some are silly. Really? Chicken Pox? That was something we needed eradicated? Now, I know there are complications from it. But, there's complications from everything. I actually can't believe we wasted money on finding this vaccine. (And by wasted, I mean it could have been better spent on REAL diseases).

    I think we have TOO many vaccines being mandated. That's the real issue.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,157
    i forget how this goes exactly but it is very dangerous and no one cares.

    one organization says,,, and they may be the dental organization
    they say use mercury fillings
    some other organization with a lot of power like the government says no stop
    mercury is bad

    yet we the people still get mercury fillings
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Green CircleGreen Circle Posts: 5,155
    Mamasan23 wrote:
    Don't schools require students to be vaccinated? My sister-in-law didn't want to vaccinate her daughter but she was forced to when she started school. So for parents that don't want to vaccinate, do they then have to home school? I honestly don't have an opinion on it either way seeing as I don't have kids, I'm just curious.


    Each state has school vaccination laws which require children of appropriate age to be vaccinated for several communicable diseases. State vaccination laws mandate that children be vaccinated prior to being allowed to attend public or private schools. Failure to vaccinate children can result in children being denied from attending school, civil fines and criminal penalties against their parents or guardians. What schools don’t tell parents is that in every state, an exemption exists allowing parents to legally refuse vaccines and allowing children to attend school.

    http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com/
    "...And I fight back in my mind. Never lets me be right.
    I got memories. I got shit so much it don't show."
  • antares434antares434 Posts: 110
    chadwick wrote:
    antares434 wrote:
    I thought this anti-vaccine nonsense was over. The media coverage seems to have calmed down in the northeast US as far as I can tell now that the tables have turned on the "issue" and the anti-vacc people are more commonly seen as fear mongering quacks.
    why are the folks who fear vaccines commonly know as fear mongering quacks?

    My definition of a fear mongering quack is someone who promotes an idea that incites public fear/panic, even when this idea has been discredited with compelling/reliable evidence. The anti-vacc crowd fits that definition in my opinion, and I believe public opinion has turned toward my way of thinking.
  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,157
    antares434 wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    antares434 wrote:
    I thought this anti-vaccine nonsense was over. The media coverage seems to have calmed down in the northeast US as far as I can tell now that the tables have turned on the "issue" and the anti-vacc people are more commonly seen as fear mongering quacks.
    why are the folks who fear vaccines commonly know as fear mongering quacks?

    My definition of a fear mongering quack is someone who promotes an idea that incites public fear/panic, even when this idea has been discredited with compelling/reliable evidence. The anti-vacc crowd fits that definition in my opinion, and I believe public opinion has turned toward my way of thinking.
    so then keep using products with aluminum and mercury in them. these are great products and great vaccines.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,827
    I, for one, believe everything I read in the headlines.

    It's the details like the ingredients you will find on the package insert of vaccines that I ignore.

    :geek:
  • CBC291417CBC291417 Posts: 22
    My sister is still convinced that vaccines caused autism in my nephew. I am aware of the lack of scientific evidence. Back then I think they still had mercury, which has since been removed from almost all vaccines.

    My boys are getting all the vaccines but we have forced the doctor to spread them out a little bit. 5 vaccines at once for a 2 month old? Come on.

    Yeah, pretty stupid not to do it. Babies can die from whooping cough. Polio is practically extinct except for a few African countries but everything seems to come back eventually, so...

    It's hard - a lot to think about.

    I did this same thing... Def feel the vaccines are needed but didn't feel comfortable with so many at one time. My son is 4, almost 5, and up to date with all vaccines.
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,827
    vaccines, as they are today, will one day be regarded as bloodletting is right now.

    mark my words.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    I didn't question when I was a young mother in my late 20's.
    I had my kids vaccinated assuming the government would only provide totally
    safe commodities, safe choices for it's people ... government knows best right?
    Government is honest right?

    I was red white and blue but now I see everything seems to be based in greed, profit
    and the government can not be totally honest with its people. Can not.

    Now I would read everything I could find and decide what is truly dangerous to my child,
    a childhood disease or a vaccine and if it was necessary at all.

    I would not agree to a Hep B vaccine the day of my child's birth though,
    I've read enough on that to be a believer.

    Again what if studies did show a link between vaccines and autism ... can you imagine?
    Holy smokes

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,921
    You can (And should) insist on vaccines without perservatives. They must accommodate. There may be no link, but why even take the risk.

    I'm not against all vaccines, but some are silly. Really? Chicken Pox? That was something we needed eradicated? Now, I know there are complications from it. But, there's complications from everything. I actually can't believe we wasted money on finding this vaccine. (And by wasted, I mean it could have been better spent on REAL diseases).

    I think we have TOO many vaccines being mandated. That's the real issue.

    I looked it up because I was curious, Chicken pox kills one in every 60,000 people who get it, and hospitilizes many more. Complication get worse if you get it as an adult. So a simple shot to prevent that kind of thing, and prevent the possibility of my kid spreading it to another child with a weakened immune system seems like an easy choice to make.
  • antares434antares434 Posts: 110
    rollings wrote:
    I, for one, believe everything I read in the headlines.

    It's the details like the ingredients you will find on the package insert of vaccines that I ignore.

    :geek:

    The only thing that's being ignored with statements like this is that there is no credible evidence that the ingredients in vaccines cause autism. No, you shouldn't trust headlines ... I'm just glad public opinion is swaying against the anti-vacc crowd bc what they are promoting is reckless nonsense.
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,921
    pandora wrote:
    II was red white and blue but now I see everything seems to be based in greed, profit
    and the government can not be totally honest with its people. Can not.

    I am not sure how I see it as a profit thing. I mean the profit the medical industry could make off treating a kid with polio or severe measles or chicken pox seems like it would be way more than they could make off a little vaccine. What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that a lot of those diseases that killed millions of people 100 years ago were pretty much wiped out thanks to vaccines. Stories about deadly outbreaks of easily preventable diseases are becoming more and more common as more people try to avoid getting them. And even if you aren't worried about you or your kid dying from say the mumps, how would you feel if you got it and then passed it on to someone who actually died because they weren't medically able to get the vaccine?
  • Green CircleGreen Circle Posts: 5,155
    Just do the research before you vaccinate your children.

    I have two kids they all got the vaccines. If I knew what I know now...I might/would have thought harder about vaccinating them. However, they are both fine kids and learning and growing well thank GOD.

    There are hard arguments on either side. I'm talking of course of vaccinating or not vaccinating.
    As far as the link to Autism and Vaccinations? I agree with the earlier posters that is a coincidence on information being "let out" at the same time.
    "...And I fight back in my mind. Never lets me be right.
    I got memories. I got shit so much it don't show."
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,827
    I have a son with autism and at age 2 had an MRI on his brain. The results showed "delayed myelination". Myelin is the insulator sheath around the nerves that connect parts of the brain, (dis-communication between brain parts logically explains almost every autism symptom,if you analyze it)

    So, while researching "delayed myelination", I qucikly learned that one of the causes of slow myelination is the MMR vaccine. My source? Merck.com.

    You will not find research that says "vaccine causes autism". But when you have a child with autism, and want answers, and even AVOID "vaccine research", you simply cannot avoid information that links back to vaccines and its ingredients and the symptoms they do in fact cause, over and over and over again.

    Yesterday it was announced that autism rates have gone up to one in 88 kids. and one in 54 boys.
    The AAP and CDC are still bouncing around saying, "we're just getting better at detecting it----get the kids therapy", instead of doing what they REALLY should be doing..and that is saying "what the fuck?"
  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,157
    if i ever have a child i want him or her born in the dirt in the weeds in the bush
    i want thorns and rain and mud and slime
    i want my kid born in the ocean
    swimming away coming out of mommy

    then some bastard with a clipboard of injections listed marked and checked

    this is one sick world we got goin on

    i'll tell ya what jerks my chain more than anything
    is when they give flu shots at the local grocery store

    i'm like...are you fucking kidding me?

    one day i'm frickin out of here
    the moon seems more inviting than this mess
    and we have millions signing up
    standing in line
    new borns being needle slammed with heavy metal toxins and a concoction of other horrorific ingrediets

    the fucking indians ... our ancient natives of every land got by ........wait for it

    then some cultures invaded far off lands bringing them their plagues and illnesses and death

    stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • antares434antares434 Posts: 110
    pandora wrote:
    I didn't question when I was a young mother in my late 20's.
    I had my kids vaccinated assuming the government would only provide totally
    safe commodities, safe choices for it's people ... government knows best right?
    Government is honest right?

    I was red white and blue but now I see everything seems to be based in greed, profit
    and the government can not be totally honest with its people. Can not.

    Now I would read everything I could find and decide what is truly dangerous to my child,
    a childhood disease or a vaccine and if it was necessary at all.

    I would not agree to a Hep B vaccine the day of my child's birth though,
    I've read enough on that to be a believer.

    Again what if studies did show a link between vaccines and autism ... can you imagine?
    Holy smokes


    Yes, governments are inefficient and can be corrupt. However, this does not mean there is a government conspiracy relating to vaccines.

    Yes, "big pharma" has been knowm to do bad things for profit. However, this is not evidence that the ingredients in vaccines are causing health problems like autism.

    What ifs and imaginary scenarios do not warrant telling someone that they shouldn't vaccinate their kids.
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,827
    My son also has anti-brain antibodies. He produces anti-bodies against his own brain.

    John Hopkins did a study on how aluminum can physically break through the blood-brain barrier that usually protects the brain from harmful contaminants that enter the body/bloodstream. Mercury is another known substance that can perform this feat. Once in the brain, aluminum does a sinister move of nestling in glial cells. The body detects this "foreigner" and attacks its own self.

    The package insert of the Hepatitis B vaccine shows that the preservative aluminimum is contained therein.
    Hep-B vaccines are given to five-day old babies.


    next up mitochondria....
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo PhillyPosts: 7,343
    Not saying vaccines are pure and great and all, but the eradication of some of these terrible diseases by way of vaccines is one of the great human achievements of all time.

    Just imagine your child having polio. How awful that would be.
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  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,157
    no goin back now folks. we're here, locked in and bolted down. you're going to get what they need you to have rather you like it or not! you will be controlled. some out of safety for your life, this is true. some out of... it's on like a time bomb.

    like i said before...it's to late now
    there's no going back
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • antares434antares434 Posts: 110
    rollings wrote:
    My son also has anti-brain antibodies. He produces anti-bodies against his own brain.

    John Hopkins did a study on how aluminum can physically break through the blood-brain barrier that usually protects the brain from harmful contaminants that enter the body/bloodstream. Mercury is another known substance that can perform this feat. Once in the brain, aluminum does a sinister move of nestling in glial cells. The body detects this "foreigner" and attacks its own self.

    The package insert of the Hepatitis B vaccine shows that the preservative aluminimum is contained therein.
    Hep-B vaccines are given to five-day old babies.


    next up mitochondria....

    I'm sorry for what your family has gone through, but has any qualified professional proven the link between these vaccines and your child's autism?

    The arguments you are making are anecdotal and, while they may be convincing to you, they do not provide a scientific basis for a link between vaccines and autism.
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,827
    admittedly by the medical community, there is so much not known about so many areas of the brain, and so much not known about how the immune system works....so when something like autism comes up, (and let's admit it ....(during the time of Rainman in what year 1988? did anybody know ANYONE with autism or even heard of it before?) so when suddenly all these kids start showing up at the doctors who can't talk at age 3 or don't communicate or who do repetive behaviors...there should have been BIG RED FLAGS raised and a "WOAH,...let's slow down here, Nellie" sign put up.

    there should have been a "what the fuck" alert, a medical crisis emergency.....something is definitely wrong.
    Did any of this happen? Not at all. Still not.

    the medical community is saying as a big fat whole "get your kids therapy".

    thanks, doc.



    one in 10,000 in the eighties.

    one in 150 six years ago.

    one in 88 today.

    what will ten years from now hold? one in 41?

    then what ?

    and then what?
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,827
    antares434 wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    My son also has anti-brain antibodies. He produces anti-bodies against his own brain.

    John Hopkins did a study on how aluminum can physically break through the blood-brain barrier that usually protects the brain from harmful contaminants that enter the body/bloodstream. Mercury is another known substance that can perform this feat. Once in the brain, aluminum does a sinister move of nestling in glial cells. The body detects this "foreigner" and attacks its own self.

    The package insert of the Hepatitis B vaccine shows that the preservative aluminimum is contained therein.
    Hep-B vaccines are given to five-day old babies.


    next up mitochondria....

    I'm sorry for what your family has gone through, but has any qualified professional proven the link between these vaccines and your child's autism?

    The arguments you are making are anecdotal and, while they may be convincing to you, they do not provide a scientific basis for a link between vaccines and autism.

    autism is ignored entirely by the medical community , so the answer to your question is no.

    to a doctor, autism is just some "thing" that a child has that warrants "therapy".

    all the bio-medical underpinings of autism, and there are many, are ignored
  • You can (And should) insist on vaccines without perservatives. They must accommodate. There may be no link, but why even take the risk.

    I'm not against all vaccines, but some are silly. Really? Chicken Pox? That was something we needed eradicated? Now, I know there are complications from it. But, there's complications from everything. I actually can't believe we wasted money on finding this vaccine. (And by wasted, I mean it could have been better spent on REAL diseases).

    I think we have TOO many vaccines being mandated. That's the real issue.

    I looked it up because I was curious, Chicken pox kills one in every 60,000 people who get it, and hospitilizes many more. Complication get worse if you get it as an adult. So a simple shot to prevent that kind of thing, and prevent the possibility of my kid spreading it to another child with a weakened immune system seems like an easy choice to make.

    Make it an adult vaccine then (if you don't get it naturally as a child). Those stats are based on getting it as an adult. Remove that, and poor overall health care, and you eliminate that. The death rate of middle class children getting Chicken pox is no where even close to that. But, instead of selectively doing things, our balless gov't mandates shit.

    It is always better to come about immunity naturally. Why ignore that? I know death is a bad thing. I get it. But, if you parsed those statistics, you'd find more common sense.

    The only problem is, we have done that parsing with the flu vaccine, and yet EVERYONE insists on getting that every year even though we are never sure we are vaccinating the correct version, and for some people it actually causes the flu (nevermind puts people at risk). So, yes, there is a smart way of vacinating. We should use it rather than the simple - everyone MUST listen to big brother!

    If your child has been vaccinated my child being vaccinated is irrelevant to you. (And I am not talking about Polio, etc I'm talking the clearly unnecessary ones)
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • Green CircleGreen Circle Posts: 5,155
    chadwick wrote:
    if i ever have a child i want him or her born in the dirt in the weeds in the bush
    i want thorns and rain and mud and slime
    i want my kid born in the ocean
    swimming away coming out of mommy

    then some bastard with a clipboard of injections listed marked and checked

    this is one sick world we got goin on

    i'll tell ya what jerks my chain more than anything
    is when they give flu shots at the local grocery store

    i'm like...are you fucking kidding me?

    one day i'm frickin out of here
    the moon seems more inviting than this mess
    and we have millions signing up
    standing in line
    new borns being needle slammed with heavy metal toxins and a concoction of other horrorific ingrediets

    the fucking indians ... our ancient natives of every land got by ........wait for it

    then some cultures invaded far off lands bringing them their plagues and illnesses and death

    stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid


    :clap: :clap: :clap:
    "...And I fight back in my mind. Never lets me be right.
    I got memories. I got shit so much it don't show."
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,921
    If your child has been vaccinated my child being vaccinated is irrelevant to you. (And I am not talking about Polio, etc I'm talking the clearly unnecessary ones)

    What about the children who medically can't be vaccinated because of health reasons such as a weakened immune system. Those kids depend on the fact that everyone else is protected to keep them from getting sick. So if you choose not to get your kid vaccinated, sure my kid will be fine, and your kid will probably be fine too, but your kid could easily get measles and pass it on to that kid with the weakened immune system and kill him or her. If people aren't being vaccinated for personal reasons how do we deal with those side-effects?
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,262
    rollings wrote:
    admittedly by the medical community, there is so much not known about so many areas of the brain, and so much not known about how the immune system works....so when something like autism comes up, (and let's admit it ....(during the time of Rainman in what year 1988? did anybody know ANYONE with autism or even heard of it before?) so when suddenly all these kids start showing up at the doctors who can't talk at age 3 or don't communicate or who do repetive behaviors...there should have been BIG RED FLAGS raised and a "WOAH,...let's slow down here, Nellie" sign put up.
    I first heard of autism when I was in high school and learned about it in health class. Altho at the time the theory was that there were only autistic children. That was in 1970.

    When I was in college there was a clinic for autistic children on campus. My university had a large psychology program and even though it was located in a small town, the clinic served a lot of kids and had a lengthy waiting list. At the clinic the treatment stressed behavioral modification. The prevailing theory at the time (early 70s) was that autism was caused by bad parenting and that theory hung around for a long time.

    In the 80s I worked with someone who had an autistic son who was in his early 20s. When he was a child, his parents had difficulty finding school programs that would accept him.

    During all these times and for decades before that children were getting vaccinated. The rates of autism have increased, along with better understanding of the different types of autism and ways to treat it. I don't know the reasons for the increase but to answer your question, yes, I was aware of and knew of cases of autism a long time before Rainman.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • London BridgeLondon Bridge USAPosts: 4,731
    If vaccinations are so safe for your child, why does the doctor make us sign a form stating they can't be held liable for anything that happens to your child....including death?

    I have an 18 yr old autistic son who has a weak immune system. The doctors don't check for this until it's too late. They give one day old babies their 1st vaccination.
    My 16 yr old has not been vaccinated since around 8 months of age due to the issues with my 1st son.

    Vaccinations may not be the cause of autism, but I am positive they add to the severity.
    But hey, go get you kids vaccinated. Cause it's the right thing to do :roll: .....good luck
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,827
    rollings wrote:
    admittedly by the medical community, there is so much not known about so many areas of the brain, and so much not known about how the immune system works....so when something like autism comes up, (and let's admit it ....(during the time of Rainman in what year 1988? did anybody know ANYONE with autism or even heard of it before?) so when suddenly all these kids start showing up at the doctors who can't talk at age 3 or don't communicate or who do repetive behaviors...there should have been BIG RED FLAGS raised and a "WOAH,...let's slow down here, Nellie" sign put up.
    I first heard of autism when I was in high school and learned about it in health class. Altho at the time the theory was that there were only autistic children. That was in 1970.

    When I was in college there was a clinic for autistic children on campus. My university had a large psychology program and even though it was located in a small town, the clinic served a lot of kids and had a lengthy waiting list. At the clinic the treatment stressed behavioral modification. The prevailing theory at the time (early 70s) was that autism was caused by bad parenting and that theory hung around for a long time.

    In the 80s I worked with someone who had an autistic son who was in his early 20s. When he was a child, his parents had difficulty finding school programs that would accept him.

    During all these times and for decades before that children were getting vaccinated. The rates of autism have increased, along with better understanding of the different types of autism and ways to treat it. I don't know the reasons for the increase but to answer your question, yes, I was aware of and knew of cases of autism a long time before Rainman.

    The number of vaccines have also been increasing.

    Ten years ago, I knew one person personally who had a child with autism.

    today I can easily name 20 people or more who has a child with autism, and these are people I either knew before my child or their child was born, and that I have met for reasons other than being autism-related.

    My point was not just to say that nobody at all heard of autism before rainman anyway. It was virtually unheard of. And today, it would be difficult to find someone who doesn't know someone who has a child with autism.
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