Vaccinate your kids?

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021
    dude my age at work was hospitalized last week for the mumps. the fucking MUMPS.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021

    So if you are vaccinated an unvaccinated person should not be a threat....àpparently only herd behavior(mass vacination) protects one from disease.. yet we still fear the few that dont vacinate..so how does vacination make you safe against a disease if we are still fearing a non vacinated person? Let alone all of the side effects clearly responsible for disease that is worse than what the vaccine is trying to erradicate...to each their own...sovereign body right to choose what we put into our bodies or take from them....brain stem cell...placenta cells...bone marrow..plasma...yada yada yada

    because vaccination isn't 100%, and you can't vaccinate for many things before certain ages.
  • Keep your unvaccinated children the hell away from me and mine, please. Bunch of hippy dippy bologna!
    www.cluthelee.com
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527

    Keep your unvaccinated children the hell away from me and mine, please. Bunch of hippy dippy bologna!

    Right?
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,117

    The flu shot isn't considered one of the childhood vaccinations as it isn't in the schedule of recommended childhood vaccinations.

    Vaccinations don't cause autism, full stop. They just don't. There is zero evidence that they do and masses of evidence that they don't.

    I would honestly look more at the crap that's in all this processed food we eat more than a vaccine.
    Right?!!
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021

    The flu shot isn't considered one of the childhood vaccinations as it isn't in the schedule of recommended childhood vaccinations.

    Vaccinations don't cause autism, full stop. They just don't. There is zero evidence that they do and masses of evidence that they don't.

    I would honestly look more at the crap that's in all this processed food we eat more than a vaccine.
    Right?!!
    I was having this discussion with my cousin the other day as well. my daughter has ulcerative colitis, and the trend for this disease, especially in my neck of the woods, is increasing heavily, and no one knows why. we just keep hearing "environmental factors". what the fuck does that mean? To me that means pesticides and artificial bullshit in foods. possibly microwaving and changing the molecular stucture of food that way.
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527

    The flu shot isn't considered one of the childhood vaccinations as it isn't in the schedule of recommended childhood vaccinations.

    Vaccinations don't cause autism, full stop. They just don't. There is zero evidence that they do and masses of evidence that they don't.

    I would honestly look more at the crap that's in all this processed food we eat more than a vaccine.
    Right?!!
    I was having this discussion with my cousin the other day as well. my daughter has ulcerative colitis, and the trend for this disease, especially in my neck of the woods, is increasing heavily, and no one knows why. we just keep hearing "environmental factors". what the fuck does that mean? To me that means pesticides and artificial bullshit in foods. possibly microwaving and changing the molecular stucture of food that way.
    It's sad. If ever we got snowed.. it was with TV dinners.. our bodies were never designed to break down chemical preservatives.. period.
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 2,287
    As a psychologist who works with a ton of autistic kids, I find it disgusting people believe this research (that was falsified) and continue to spread the absurd belief that vaccination has anything remotely
    To do with autism. The guy deserves to be in prison for the irreparable harm he has caused. VACCINATE YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 13,116

    As a psychologist who works with a ton of autistic kids, I find it disgusting people believe this research (that was falsified) and continue to spread the absurd belief that vaccination has anything remotely
    To do with autism. The guy deserves to be in prison for the irreparable harm he has caused. VACCINATE YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!

    Yep!
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • JS81606JS81606 Posts: 72

    As a psychologist who works with a ton of autistic kids, I find it disgusting people believe this research (that was falsified) and continue to spread the absurd belief that vaccination has anything remotely
    To do with autism. The guy deserves to be in prison for the irreparable harm he has caused. VACCINATE YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!

    Dr Wakefield has been vindicated, if one reads the research on pub med, you will find 24 studies showing what he found has been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have come to my senses and refuse to note research on this subject because the lack of initiative of some is so lacking that they couldn't even goto CDC.Gov and look at the vax shedule from birth to 18 years of age and, whoa nelly, flu jab is on there! I expect to be slammed, as I am most days for doing the research and analysis of the research and for this, I make my choices.

    As far as environmental toxins, what is in that jab that just by-passed your skin barrier? Environmental toxins? How is measles, mumps, chicken pox, roto virus, etc spread? Thru air particles/ sputum/ water/ rain/ fecal matter/ urine/ other? Most natural infections enters into the nasopharynx and our immune system attacks these foreign compounds. With the jab, it is set directly into the blood stream. No barrier, no chance for the immune system to respond accordingly. The immune system acts in a series of steps that defend us. But without the natural introduction thru natural processes, the immune system is not allowed is due diligence.
    Questions I still have not had answered here:
    Why the need for the boosters?
    Why are your kids not protected when vaccinated from unvaccinated child?
    Does vaccination equal immunization?
    What constitutes toxin? Please define?
    Why the high rate of autism? Why higher rate in African American males than caucasian males?
    Are you fixing the autistic people you are working with? Big or little improvements? Would be interesting to know this.

    Please help me understand what makes this entire subject so frightening that people lose their mind over it. I am curious.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021
    JS81606 said:

    As a psychologist who works with a ton of autistic kids, I find it disgusting people believe this research (that was falsified) and continue to spread the absurd belief that vaccination has anything remotely
    To do with autism. The guy deserves to be in prison for the irreparable harm he has caused. VACCINATE YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!

    Dr Wakefield has been vindicated, if one reads the research on pub med, you will find 24 studies showing what he found has been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have come to my senses and refuse to note research on this subject because the lack of initiative of some is so lacking that they couldn't even goto CDC.Gov and look at the vax shedule from birth to 18 years of age and, whoa nelly, flu jab is on there! I expect to be slammed, as I am most days for doing the research and analysis of the research and for this, I make my choices.

    As far as environmental toxins, what is in that jab that just by-passed your skin barrier? Environmental toxins? How is measles, mumps, chicken pox, roto virus, etc spread? Thru air particles/ sputum/ water/ rain/ fecal matter/ urine/ other? Most natural infections enters into the nasopharynx and our immune system attacks these foreign compounds. With the jab, it is set directly into the blood stream. No barrier, no chance for the immune system to respond accordingly. The immune system acts in a series of steps that defend us. But without the natural introduction thru natural processes, the immune system is not allowed is due diligence.
    Questions I still have not had answered here:
    Why the need for the boosters?
    Why are your kids not protected when vaccinated from unvaccinated child?
    Does vaccination equal immunization?
    What constitutes toxin? Please define?
    Why the high rate of autism? Why higher rate in African American males than caucasian males?
    Are you fixing the autistic people you are working with? Big or little improvements? Would be interesting to know this.

    Please help me understand what makes this entire subject so frightening that people lose their mind over it. I am curious.
    because making claims so egregious as to cause mass global panic, inducing an anti-vaccination motion so huge it will bring about the next fucking plague.

    correlation does not equal causation. i could just as easily claim that women no longer drinking or smoking during pregnancy causes all these issues, but that would be incredibly irresponsible, now wouldn't it?

    how has he been vindicated exactly?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,899
    edited April 2017
    JS81606 said:

    As a psychologist who works with a ton of autistic kids, I find it disgusting people believe this research (that was falsified) and continue to spread the absurd belief that vaccination has anything remotely
    To do with autism. The guy deserves to be in prison for the irreparable harm he has caused. VACCINATE YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!

    Dr Wakefield has been vindicated, if one reads the research on pub med, you will find 24 studies showing what he found has been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have come to my senses and refuse to note research on this subject because the lack of initiative of some is so lacking that they couldn't even goto CDC.Gov and look at the vax shedule from birth to 18 years of age and, whoa nelly, flu jab is on there! I expect to be slammed, as I am most days for doing the research and analysis of the research and for this, I make my choices.

    As far as environmental toxins, what is in that jab that just by-passed your skin barrier? Environmental toxins? How is measles, mumps, chicken pox, roto virus, etc spread? Thru air particles/ sputum/ water/ rain/ fecal matter/ urine/ other? Most natural infections enters into the nasopharynx and our immune system attacks these foreign compounds. With the jab, it is set directly into the blood stream. No barrier, no chance for the immune system to respond accordingly. The immune system acts in a series of steps that defend us. But without the natural introduction thru natural processes, the immune system is not allowed is due diligence.
    Questions I still have not had answered here:
    Why the need for the boosters?
    Why are your kids not protected when vaccinated from unvaccinated child?
    Does vaccination equal immunization?
    What constitutes toxin? Please define?
    Why the high rate of autism? Why higher rate in African American males than caucasian males?
    Are you fixing the autistic people you are working with? Big or little improvements? Would be interesting to know this.

    Please help me understand what makes this entire subject so frightening that people lose their mind over it. I am curious.
    Children are one of the highest risk groups for serious consequences of influenza. About 90% of children who die from influenza were not vaccinated. Thus, kids from 6 months old can get the influenza vaccine. It is not considered one of the childhood vaccinations; it is available yearly, for virtually everyone, and particularly encouraged for people at higher risk for serious influenza complications.

    The single dose vials and pre-filled syringes of influenza immunization do not contain thimersol/mercury. This is very likely what you/your child would receive if you or they got immunized. Nonetheless, there is no evidence that thimersol in immunizations causes any health risks. The dose is so miniscule that it contributes less than background "noise". Furthermore, there is no evidence that thimersol causes autism; rates of autism are the same regardless of whether immunizations contain thimersol or not.

    The immune system is complex and fascinating, and definitely works wonderfully well against particles that enter the blood stream as well as particles that enter the nasopharynx. Otherwise we would all die of infections in childhood when we scraped our knees.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    edited April 2017

    JS81606 said:

    As a psychologist who works with a ton of autistic kids, I find it disgusting people believe this research (that was falsified) and continue to spread the absurd belief that vaccination has anything remotely
    To do with autism. The guy deserves to be in prison for the irreparable harm he has caused. VACCINATE YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!

    Dr Wakefield has been vindicated, if one reads the research on pub med, you will find 24 studies showing what he found has been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have come to my senses and refuse to note research on this subject because the lack of initiative of some is so lacking that they couldn't even goto CDC.Gov and look at the vax shedule from birth to 18 years of age and, whoa nelly, flu jab is on there! I expect to be slammed, as I am most days for doing the research and analysis of the research and for this, I make my choices.

    As far as environmental toxins, what is in that jab that just by-passed your skin barrier? Environmental toxins? How is measles, mumps, chicken pox, roto virus, etc spread? Thru air particles/ sputum/ water/ rain/ fecal matter/ urine/ other? Most natural infections enters into the nasopharynx and our immune system attacks these foreign compounds. With the jab, it is set directly into the blood stream. No barrier, no chance for the immune system to respond accordingly. The immune system acts in a series of steps that defend us. But without the natural introduction thru natural processes, the immune system is not allowed is due diligence.
    Questions I still have not had answered here:
    Why the need for the boosters?
    Why are your kids not protected when vaccinated from unvaccinated child?
    Does vaccination equal immunization?
    What constitutes toxin? Please define?
    Why the high rate of autism? Why higher rate in African American males than caucasian males?
    Are you fixing the autistic people you are working with? Big or little improvements? Would be interesting to know this.

    Please help me understand what makes this entire subject so frightening that people lose their mind over it. I am curious.
    Children are one of the highest risk groups for serious consequences of influenza. About 90% of children who die from influenza were not vaccinated. Thus, kids from 6 months old can get the influenza vaccine. It is not considered one of the childhood vaccinations; it is available yearly, for virtually everyone, and particularly encouraged for people at higher risk for serious influenza complications.

    The single dose vials and pre-filled syringes of influenza immunization do not contain thimersol/mercury. This is very likely what you/your child would receive if you or they got immunized. Nonetheless, there is no evidence that thimersol in immunizations causes any health risks. The dose is so miniscule that it contributes less than background "noise". Furthermore, there is no evidence that thimersol causes autism; rates of autism are the same regardless of whether immunizations contain thimersol or not.

    The immune system is complex and fascinating, and definitely works wonderfully well against particles that enter the blood stream as well as particles that enter the nasopharynx. Otherwise we would all die of infections in childhood when we scraped our knees.
    Forgive me if I am wrong, but first off, isn''t the flu shot an intramuscular shot over an intravenous shot? . secondly your immune system responds just as well to puncture introduction as through any other mode of entry. I have this argument with pet owners all the time.. one lady actually said she never vaccinated her kids or her pets.. I wish there was some way to get folks to see how irresponsible this is.. In such highly populated stasis as those in which we all reside.. it is NECESSARY for the well being of all, that all be well. It's common sense, folks.. quit being sheeple.. look stuff up.. google learn to google.. and learn to google well. Make informed decisions. But above all learn to weigh consequences.. because your affect, has an effect, for which YOU are responsible. Autism is a genetic discourse that we don't even fully understand yet . Yet, someone is trying to convince the world that these immunization kits are causing it..one more case for the internet seemingly making folks dumber...
    Post edited by whispering hands on
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    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    When we burn the London Bridge down this next time.. can we leave the non immuno folks on the island as we burn it down? ( here's some google practice.. look that up..)
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,553



    Forgive me if I am wrong, but first off, isn''t the flu shot an intramuscular shot over an intravenous shot? . secondly your immune system responds just as well to puncture introduction as through any other mode of entry. I have this argument with pet owners all the time.. one lady actually said she never vaccinated her kids or her pets.. I wish there was some way to get folks to see how irresponsible this is.. In such highly populated stasis as those in which we all reside.. it is NECESSARY for the well being of all, that all be well. It's common sense, folks.. quit being sheeple.. look stuff up.. google learn to google.. and learn to google well. Make informed decisions. But above all learn to weigh consequences.. because your affect, has an effect, for which YOU are responsible. Autism is a genetic discourse that we don't even fully understand yet . Yet, someone is trying to convince the world that these immunization kits are causing it..one more case for the internet seemingly making folks dumber...

    Yes, it's intramuscular.

    Hi there: I'm a parent of a child with multiple neurological disorders, and the spouse of someone who works in the medical device industry (for several years, he was the guy who made sure that your flu shots were available on time).

    We ALL get our flu shots, Every. Single. Year. One year, we didn't -- and I spent ten days sitting on the sofa, sick as a dog, holding a sick infant in one arm and a sick preschooler in the other, while all three of us cried. If my husband had even the slightest doubts about the safety of vaccines, we would never administer them to our children; but we're confident, based on all available information, that vaccines are safe and are wildly preferable to the illnesses they are designed to prevent.

    My child's disabilities are genetic. They are inherited. We know that vaccines did not cause them. Autism: the brain remains a poorly understood organ. With time, I believe that disorders currently given the umbrella or blanket dx of autism will be split into several distinct disorders. Why are these diagnoses on the rise? Well, based on my personal experiences and observations, I would suggest the following reasons why: 1) other diagnoses were offered in lieu of autism in the past, e.g. a dx of "mental retardation;" 2) greater awareness of and reduced stigma surrounding certain disabilities means that there is more public discussion of these issues and of the individuals who have them; once upon a time, these people might have been institutionalized, not mainstreamed; 3) the "geek"/ "Silicon Valley" factor: if people who are "on the spectrum" are more likely now to meet and mate than they were in the past, odds are they are going to have more children who also are not neurotypical; 4) Overdiagnosis, plain and simple, due to any number of factors, from the health-care professional's incompetence (when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail) to educators' decreased tolerance for students who are "different" to parents who push for a diagnosis to obtain valuable services for their children.

    What is the saying? A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Wakefield's work has been discredited, repeatedly, but "vaccines cause autism" is a rumor that just won't die.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021



    Forgive me if I am wrong, but first off, isn''t the flu shot an intramuscular shot over an intravenous shot? . secondly your immune system responds just as well to puncture introduction as through any other mode of entry. I have this argument with pet owners all the time.. one lady actually said she never vaccinated her kids or her pets.. I wish there was some way to get folks to see how irresponsible this is.. In such highly populated stasis as those in which we all reside.. it is NECESSARY for the well being of all, that all be well. It's common sense, folks.. quit being sheeple.. look stuff up.. google learn to google.. and learn to google well. Make informed decisions. But above all learn to weigh consequences.. because your affect, has an effect, for which YOU are responsible. Autism is a genetic discourse that we don't even fully understand yet . Yet, someone is trying to convince the world that these immunization kits are causing it..one more case for the internet seemingly making folks dumber...

    Yes, it's intramuscular.

    Hi there: I'm a parent of a child with multiple neurological disorders, and the spouse of someone who works in the medical device industry (for several years, he was the guy who made sure that your flu shots were available on time).

    We ALL get our flu shots, Every. Single. Year. One year, we didn't -- and I spent ten days sitting on the sofa, sick as a dog, holding a sick infant in one arm and a sick preschooler in the other, while all three of us cried. If my husband had even the slightest doubts about the safety of vaccines, we would never administer them to our children; but we're confident, based on all available information, that vaccines are safe and are wildly preferable to the illnesses they are designed to prevent.

    My child's disabilities are genetic. They are inherited. We know that vaccines did not cause them. Autism: the brain remains a poorly understood organ. With time, I believe that disorders currently given the umbrella or blanket dx of autism will be split into several distinct disorders. Why are these diagnoses on the rise? Well, based on my personal experiences and observations, I would suggest the following reasons why: 1) other diagnoses were offered in lieu of autism in the past, e.g. a dx of "mental retardation;" 2) greater awareness of and reduced stigma surrounding certain disabilities means that there is more public discussion of these issues and of the individuals who have them; once upon a time, these people might have been institutionalized, not mainstreamed; 3) the "geek"/ "Silicon Valley" factor: if people who are "on the spectrum" are more likely now to meet and mate than they were in the past, odds are they are going to have more children who also are not neurotypical; 4) Overdiagnosis, plain and simple, due to any number of factors, from the health-care professional's incompetence (when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail) to educators' decreased tolerance for students who are "different" to parents who push for a diagnosis to obtain valuable services for their children.

    What is the saying? A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Wakefield's work has been discredited, repeatedly, but "vaccines cause autism" is a rumor that just won't die.
    :clap:
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,753
    Odd to find this topic on the AET instead of AMT. Anyway, I don't understand the hostility either side shows towards those who wish to vaccinate and those who don't. Those I know who choose not to vaccinate are actually doing so because they have fully researched their options and understand the pros and cons. I would estimate a significantly higher percentage of non-vaccinated people make a fully informed decision and aren't doing it out of fear as opposed to those who vaccinate. There are certain populations and demographics that should vaccinate, but if you don't fall in to the high risk area, make your own informed decision on what you want to do with your body. What really annoys me are people who complain about non-vaccinated people, but then they are pumping their child full of terrible food, putting them in front of a TV/media device and completely checked out on their social/emotional wellness. Rip on the anti-vaccer all day, but they are usually pretty deeply invested in their child and their own health.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021
    tbergs said:

    Odd to find this topic on the AET instead of AMT. Anyway, I don't understand the hostility either side shows towards those who wish to vaccinate and those who don't. Those I know who choose not to vaccinate are actually doing so because they have fully researched their options and understand the pros and cons. I would estimate a significantly higher percentage of non-vaccinated people make a fully informed decision and aren't doing it out of fear as opposed to those who vaccinate. There are certain populations and demographics that should vaccinate, but if you don't fall in to the high risk area, make your own informed decision on what you want to do with your body. What really annoys me are people who complain about non-vaccinated people, but then they are pumping their child full of terrible food, putting them in front of a TV/media device and completely checked out on their social/emotional wellness. Rip on the anti-vaccer all day, but they are usually pretty deeply invested in their child and their own health.

    the hostility stems from people making decisions based on idiots like Jenny McCarthy and misinformation instead of doing actual research. so no, I don't buy your description of pro-vaxxers being lazy and irresponsible with their health and "putting them in front of media device"-where do you get that from anyway? and this misinformation can be a hazard to public health. the problem with anti-vaxxers is that they think it's just about YOU. it's about everyone.

    There are plenty of people on both sides who are guilty of not being fully informed. Part of the issue is knowing who/what to believe. In this age, it all looks very convincing. Many doctors just give a blind "yes, vaccinate" without having time or patients to answer why. there are paphlets in doctor's offices, but none of them would calm the fears of the autism-by-vaccine folks.

    And I have seen zero data that claims to pro- or ant-vaxxers being the more informed or more engaged in their child's well being. I think it's odd that you say you don't understand the hostility by either side but then comment on the intelligence and laziness of one of the groups. I don't think it does the discussion any service at all by insulting one entire group without any real basis in reality.

    I have a child who has her immune system suppressed by medication she's on for a health issue she has. she gets vaccinated, but again, they aren't 100%. some kid not getting vaccinated and making my kid sick because a parent doesn't want to take a day off work and keep their kid home (it happens a LOT) can put her in the hospital. it can KILL seniors and babies.

    So yeah, I can definitely see why people can get hostile about it.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,866

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    Homeopathy??? That's literal insanity.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,753

    tbergs said:

    Odd to find this topic on the AET instead of AMT. Anyway, I don't understand the hostility either side shows towards those who wish to vaccinate and those who don't. Those I know who choose not to vaccinate are actually doing so because they have fully researched their options and understand the pros and cons. I would estimate a significantly higher percentage of non-vaccinated people make a fully informed decision and aren't doing it out of fear as opposed to those who vaccinate. There are certain populations and demographics that should vaccinate, but if you don't fall in to the high risk area, make your own informed decision on what you want to do with your body. What really annoys me are people who complain about non-vaccinated people, but then they are pumping their child full of terrible food, putting them in front of a TV/media device and completely checked out on their social/emotional wellness. Rip on the anti-vaccer all day, but they are usually pretty deeply invested in their child and their own health.

    the hostility stems from people making decisions based on idiots like Jenny McCarthy and misinformation instead of doing actual research. so no, I don't buy your description of pro-vaxxers being lazy and irresponsible with their health and "putting them in front of media device"-where do you get that from anyway? and this misinformation can be a hazard to public health. the problem with anti-vaxxers is that they think it's just about YOU. it's about everyone.

    There are plenty of people on both sides who are guilty of not being fully informed. Part of the issue is knowing who/what to believe. In this age, it all looks very convincing. Many doctors just give a blind "yes, vaccinate" without having time or patients to answer why. there are paphlets in doctor's offices, but none of them would calm the fears of the autism-by-vaccine folks.

    And I have seen zero data that claims to pro- or ant-vaxxers being the more informed or more engaged in their child's well being. I think it's odd that you say you don't understand the hostility by either side but then comment on the intelligence and laziness of one of the groups. I don't think it does the discussion any service at all by insulting one entire group without any real basis in reality.

    I have a child who has her immune system suppressed by medication she's on for a health issue she has. she gets vaccinated, but again, they aren't 100%. some kid not getting vaccinated and making my kid sick because a parent doesn't want to take a day off work and keep their kid home (it happens a LOT) can put her in the hospital. it can KILL seniors and babies.

    So yeah, I can definitely see why people can get hostile about it.
    I wasn't taking a side or bashing, but noticed there seems to be more hostility towards the anti side on here so I was positing my experience since vaccination is the mass market solution it tends to be less researched by parents because they are following what is being marketed to them. That's not insulting the group, that's stating the facts.

    I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. Having kids, I can't imagine what that must be like.

    I don't understand how an unvaccinated child is a risk to her or anyone though? Just because someone else's child is vaccinated doesn't mean they don't get sick or carry the virus, it just suppresses their response and eases the effects if they do get it. This is why I mentioned that there seems to be a more fear based approach on the vaccination side as some on here mentioned the fear is the anti vac side.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,753
    rgambs said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    Homeopathy??? That's literal insanity.
    Why is it insanity? If someone has found a method of care and treatment that works for them, then why not? I've seen you reference the usage of herbal and psychotropic drugs on here and several think that is insanity, but it's your body and you are allowed to ingest whatever you choose so why can't natural remedies and homeopathic medicine be someone else's "drug" of choice.

    I prefer not to ingest pharmaceutical produced substances unless there's no other option. Our society has become too dependent on just going to a Walgreens or CVS at any hour of the day and picking any one of 1,000+ medication cocktails of varying degrees and unrecognizable chemical ingredients. We can't get weed legalized, but we hand out painkillers strong enough to render you unconscious for hours and addicted for life.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,866
    tbergs said:

    rgambs said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    Homeopathy??? That's literal insanity.
    Why is it insanity? If someone has found a method of care and treatment that works for them, then why not? I've seen you reference the usage of herbal and psychotropic drugs on here and several think that is insanity, but it's your body and you are allowed to ingest whatever you choose so why can't natural remedies and homeopathic medicine be someone else's "drug" of choice.

    I prefer not to ingest pharmaceutical produced substances unless there's no other option. Our society has become too dependent on just going to a Walgreens or CVS at any hour of the day and picking any one of 1,000+ medication cocktails of varying degrees and unrecognizable chemical ingredients. We can't get weed legalized, but we hand out painkillers strong enough to render you unconscious for hours and addicted for life.
    You are just out of your depth here.
    Psychotropic drugs have been proven to have quantifiable effects on human physiology.
    Homeopathy is ridiculous idiocy.
    Do you even know what homeopathy is???
    I think you don't. Here's a quick summary of moronism for you...
    You take a substance that is not known to cure an ailment, dilute it so far that there are literally no molecules of the "curative" agent left in the treatment, and beat it off a Bible a few thousand times to change it's chakras, so that you can treat fictitious "miasmas".

    It has been resoundingly debunked by every form of scientific inquiry from common sense up to advanced clinical trial.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • whispering handswhispering hands Under your skinPosts: 13,527
    edited April 2017
    rgambs said:

    tbergs said:

    rgambs said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    Homeopathy??? That's literal insanity.
    Why is it insanity? If someone has found a method of care and treatment that works for them, then why not? I've seen you reference the usage of herbal and psychotropic drugs on here and several think that is insanity, but it's your body and you are allowed to ingest whatever you choose so why can't natural remedies and homeopathic medicine be someone else's "drug" of choice.

    I prefer not to ingest pharmaceutical produced substances unless there's no other option. Our society has become too dependent on just going to a Walgreens or CVS at any hour of the day and picking any one of 1,000+ medication cocktails of varying degrees and unrecognizable chemical ingredients. We can't get weed legalized, but we hand out painkillers strong enough to render you unconscious for hours and addicted for life.
    You are just out of your depth here.
    Psychotropic drugs have been proven to have quantifiable effects on human physiology.
    Homeopathy is ridiculous idiocy.
    Do you even know what homeopathy is???
    I think you don't. Here's a quick summary of moronism for you...
    You take a substance that is not known to cure an ailment, dilute it so far that there are literally no molecules of the "curative" agent left in the treatment, and beat it off a Bible a few thousand times to change it's chakras, so that you can treat fictitious "miasmas".

    It has been resoundingly debunked by every form of scientific inquiry from common sense up to advanced clinical trial.
    Now you are being ridiculous . Homeopathy is simply using all natural plant and bark/roots for ailments. Period. There's no hokey ritual, not odd 'blessings' or 'prayers'. Just natural elements used to cure what ails you. For sprains, strains, upset stomach, etc.. homeopathy is wonderful. As for
    How welll it cures very serious ills I wouldn't trust it. We and our current ills have advanced far beyond the reaches of serious homeopathy. But as for health...Using homeopathy for the minor ills versus chemical compounds is FAR healthier for you than the go to's. But for serious issues I recommend the stronger and more reliable antibiotics. It's really rude of you to sit there and say what someone uses is ridiculous because you don't know enough about it, to speak; strikingly rude to make all that stuff up to make it sound worse. Homeopathy does work for many many many things. I keep roots and plants hung to dry in my horse barns all the time, because I prefer homeopathic remedies for the horses over chemical compounds, as they have no choice. Try research before making a statement on something you know nothing about.
    Post edited by whispering hands on
    D1B50013-8BB5-4861-B9BC-AA0D88D58DF4.jpg

    The first rule of the ten club fight club is you don't talk about the ten club fight club!
  • JS81606JS81606 Posts: 72
    It appears to me, as most discussions I am involved with pro-vaxxers, they yell, scream, stomp their feet, yet refuse to read the research.(My classification for pro and cons) Yeah, I guess since I have hundreds of peer- reviewed literature papers stating the truth regarding vaccines,(which I posted here and to my knowledge, few if any read) I am crazy and mis-informed. My love for hearing, "Jenny McCarthy is a joke and what does she know," yet the pro-vaxxers have an over weight blow hard called Penn& Teller, who have little or nothing to stand on regarding vaccine damage,( just an argument that is more lame than.......) or just their doctors pamphlet from the clinic. Interesting. Have they had any hands on work with an autistic child like Ms McCarthy did and changed that child's life? Doubt it. And those of you on here who do work with the autistic child, are they making changes? If not why? and do not give me the genetic BS, some are sadly misinformed. I have asked many questions here, in this thread and not one answer has given me any know information, or a direction to go to refute my research. I love the, "it's intra muscular" and therefore not into the blood stream. Okay.? What supplies fuel and takes away waste from the muscle belly? Are the muscles of the body walled of from the rest of the body? Please explain. Seriously, if you want science start with basic physiology and go from there. It ( the vaccine jab) is still by-passing he mucosal membranes of the throat and pharynx of the natural viurs/ bacteria and is injected directly into the body. (Just pause and meditate on that.) Have any of you who claim such, ever heard of complementary proteins and understand how the immune system responds to foreign invaders/ infections? That statement is.....speechless. I digress. I love how everyone is so worried about the environment being toxic, yet have no f'ing clue what toxins are in the jab they give their child. Then they throw acetaminophen into the mix to reduce aches pains fever. Seriously! Where does the disconnect end and common sense and logic enter? I know slamming another health art or system is easy, but where are you obtaining the peer-reviewed info from. I spent an hour pouring over pub-med, and as far as homeopathy, ............well again, I wait for the information to show such claims. I go on these rants and I apologise, but start critical thinking. To Mr Hugh...My daughter had mumps, measles, chicken pox, has the flu every few years and is quite healthy. As a matter of fact, when the disease was active and she had full fledge symptomology going, her teacher just laughed and called me in to pick her up from school. Guess what, no outbreak, no major medical disaster, nothing. So why the worry and fear? I would rather have my daughter contract and fight off these, than to have to contend with leukemia, transfer myelitis, demyelinating diseases, gliosis of the brain, encephalitis, etc....just saying.
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,847

    those "studies" out there people push are junk
    http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2013/08/-those-lists-of-papers-that-claim-vaccines-cause-autism-part-1.html

    to suggest 1 in 53 vaccines will cause a kid to 'catch' autism is pretty much a non-starting point.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 28,425
    9/11 was an inside job.
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,847
    Our pediatrician, who went to medical school to study things like these, and human/child health, strongly suggested we vaccinate our kids as well as stick to the prescribed schedule. She also has her children vaccinated. Our kids collectively are healthy as can be, and dont get measles, mumps, etc so their teachers need to call us and 'laugh' about it.

    I have/had close friends who are anti-vaccinators. One is a plastics engineer, and one is a school-teacher (who stopped working to write "books" on this stuff). They alter the schedules of their kids' vaccinations (begrudgingly they are required for school), claim a vaccine made one of their children sick once, and regularly pump like 10,000 Mg of Vitamin C (among other things) into their kids until they literally shit their pants. And you know what? Their kids are constantly sick and reclusive. Nobody wants to hang out with these people because they get preached to in a social setting. They believe vitamins cure anything and everything. I watched the dad chase a crying 5 year old girl around the house with a solo-cup full of vitamins that look like pieces of chalk. These kids are going to be mental. The father in law is some sort of ring leader of this movement. I have seen some of his videos and none of it is compelling evidence. It is all "my family did this and they are fine, therefore it must be correct". He is devious in his presentation and always looking to sell stuff and obtain more followers. He does not have any real medical degree or qualifications, and he is manipulating people into how to care for children (and themselves, but I case less about them as they are capable of choosing). They write "journal" articles... and they cite other "journal" articles that cite each other in a confusing circle.

    Look, I like vitamins and supplements, I take a small battery every day. I avoid prescriptions whenever possible. But there is a point where there is an obsession to find a boogeyman and catch a case of 'smartest guy in the room syndrome'. There is a large reason our life expectancy has reached higher and higher, and I credit most of it to science and medicine.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,866
    edited April 2017

    rgambs said:

    tbergs said:

    rgambs said:

    Thank you for bringing these articles and opinions to the forefront..and happy to see the discussion stay civil. The anecdotal and personal experiences i have had backed with plenty of research after the fact is what has led me to believe that we are not being exposed to the full story on vaccines and the risks by drug companies that sell on mass to government...protecting the industry seems more important than continuously reviewing the methods and recipes for cure of disease. The side effects and incidents go unreported and are not used in statistics. My nephew at age nine stopped breathing a day after his routine shots..had severe brain swelling fever...just a coincidence...he recovered with homeopathic care very well and is a thriving adult...I have had the pleasure of working with children with special needs for 20 ought years and many parents have a medical intervention story to tell regarding the onset in the cases of autism...research..research by independant science that will not be quashed by the pharma company's interests is what typically i have read. Again thank you for taking the time to cite articles etc. It is time consuming to seek alternatives and easier for some more than others to be satisfied with evidence that comes to their attention through commercial interests that dont even allow their scientist to fully publish evidence..by blackballing them in the scientific community..court ordered gags and full claim of corperate ownership of the research...kinda like musicians and artists not having rights to their own creations...anywho...not an easy awnser to be had when it comes to individual health choices

    Homeopathy??? That's literal insanity.
    Why is it insanity? If someone has found a method of care and treatment that works for them, then why not? I've seen you reference the usage of herbal and psychotropic drugs on here and several think that is insanity, but it's your body and you are allowed to ingest whatever you choose so why can't natural remedies and homeopathic medicine be someone else's "drug" of choice.

    I prefer not to ingest pharmaceutical produced substances unless there's no other option. Our society has become too dependent on just going to a Walgreens or CVS at any hour of the day and picking any one of 1,000+ medication cocktails of varying degrees and unrecognizable chemical ingredients. We can't get weed legalized, but we hand out painkillers strong enough to render you unconscious for hours and addicted for life.
    You are just out of your depth here.
    Psychotropic drugs have been proven to have quantifiable effects on human physiology.
    Homeopathy is ridiculous idiocy.
    Do you even know what homeopathy is???
    I think you don't. Here's a quick summary of moronism for you...
    You take a substance that is not known to cure an ailment, dilute it so far that there are literally no molecules of the "curative" agent left in the treatment, and beat it off a Bible a few thousand times to change it's chakras, so that you can treat fictitious "miasmas".

    It has been resoundingly debunked by every form of scientific inquiry from common sense up to advanced clinical trial.
    Now you are being ridiculous . Homeopathy is simply using all natural plant and bark/roots for ailments. Period. There's no hokey ritual, not odd 'blessings' or 'prayers'. Just natural elements used to cure what ails you. For sprains, strains, upset stomach, etc.. homeopathy is wonderful. As for
    How welll it cures very serious ills I wouldn't trust it. We and our current ills have advanced far beyond the reaches of serious homeopathy. But as for health...Using homeopathy for the minor ills versus chemical compounds is FAR healthier for you than the go to's. But for serious issues I recommend the stronger and more reliable antibiotics. It's really rude of you to sit there and say what someone uses is ridiculous because you don't know enough about it, to speak; strikingly rude to make all that stuff up to make it sound worse. Homeopathy does work for many many many things. I keep roots and plants hung to dry in my horse barns all the time, because I prefer homeopathic remedies for the horses over chemical compounds, as they have no choice. Try research before making a statement on something you know nothing about.
    You are confusing homeopathy with herbal remedies, which often have quantifiable effects on human physiology. Some herbal remedies are efficacious to the point that they are dangerous if misused, just like pharmaceuticals.
    Homeopathy is not a catch-all​ term for alternatives to pharmaceutical medicine, it is a specific brand of lunacy created in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann.
    My description of it was not made up, except the chakras, because I don't know what terms they use for their spiritual mumbo jumbo. I even left some of the lunacy out, like the fact that homeopathic remedies are supposedly more effective the more they are diluted. The greatest dilution reasonably likely to contain even one molecule of the original substance is 12C, and a 30C dilution is pretty standard, though sometimes it's taken all the way to 300C or beyond.
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,866
    JS81606 said:

    It appears to me, as most discussions I am involved with pro-vaxxers, they yell, scream, stomp their feet, yet refuse to read the research.(My classification for pro and cons) Yeah, I guess since I have hundreds of peer- reviewed literature papers stating the truth regarding vaccines,(which I posted here and to my knowledge, few if any read) I am crazy and mis-informed. My love for hearing, "Jenny McCarthy is a joke and what does she know," yet the pro-vaxxers have an over weight blow hard called Penn& Teller, who have little or nothing to stand on regarding vaccine damage,( just an argument that is more lame than.......) or just their doctors pamphlet from the clinic. Interesting. Have they had any hands on work with an autistic child like Ms McCarthy did and changed that child's life? Doubt it. And those of you on here who do work with the autistic child, are they making changes? If not why? and do not give me the genetic BS, some are sadly misinformed. I have asked many questions here, in this thread and not one answer has given me any know information, or a direction to go to refute my research. I love the, "it's intra muscular" and therefore not into the blood stream. Okay.? What supplies fuel and takes away waste from the muscle belly? Are the muscles of the body walled of from the rest of the body? Please explain. Seriously, if you want science start with basic physiology and go from there. It ( the vaccine jab) is still by-passing he mucosal membranes of the throat and pharynx of the natural viurs/ bacteria and is injected directly into the body. (Just pause and meditate on that.) Have any of you who claim such, ever heard of complementary proteins and understand how the immune system responds to foreign invaders/ infections? That statement is.....speechless. I digress. I love how everyone is so worried about the environment being toxic, yet have no f'ing clue what toxins are in the jab they give their child. Then they throw acetaminophen into the mix to reduce aches pains fever. Seriously! Where does the disconnect end and common sense and logic enter? I know slamming another health art or system is easy, but where are you obtaining the peer-reviewed info from. I spent an hour pouring over pub-med, and as far as homeopathy, ............well again, I wait for the information to show such claims. I go on these rants and I apologise, but start critical thinking. To Mr Hugh...My daughter had mumps, measles, chicken pox, has the flu every few years and is quite healthy. As a matter of fact, when the disease was active and she had full fledge symptomology going, her teacher just laughed and called me in to pick her up from school. Guess what, no outbreak, no major medical disaster, nothing. So why the worry and fear? I would rather have my daughter contract and fight off these, than to have to contend with leukemia, transfer myelitis, demyelinating diseases, gliosis of the brain, encephalitis, etc....just saying.

    The flu kills healthy people every single year. So do the mumps, measles, and pox. Fact.

    Also, regarding homeopathy, what information are you waiting on? The overwhelming conclusion from every reputable study that shows it to no more effective than placebo??
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,847
    isnt homeopathic medicine the act of treating an illness, by giving the 'patient' something that causes the same symptoms, the thought that worsening the symptoms ratchets up the 'healing' process?
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