Vaccinate your kids?

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  • If your child has been vaccinated my child being vaccinated is irrelevant to you. (And I am not talking about Polio, etc I'm talking the clearly unnecessary ones)

    What about the children who medically can't be vaccinated because of health reasons such as a weakened immune system. Those kids depend on the fact that everyone else is protected to keep them from getting sick. So if you choose not to get your kid vaccinated, sure my kid will be fine, and your kid will probably be fine too, but your kid could easily get measles and pass it on to that kid with the weakened immune system and kill him or her. If people aren't being vaccinated for personal reasons how do we deal with those side-effects?

    Well, first, I wasn't talking about the measels, so I don't know why that comes up.

    But, for Chicken pox and the like. Really? I now have to do everything to my kids bodies so 1 other child can be safe? I don't get that line of thinking. We don't know ANYTHING for sure with these vaccines (I am not on the side of vaccines = autism. But, I'm not "against it" either). Why should I be taking that risk with my child because another's had an unfortunate occurence?

    This is what makes no sense to me. I'm not trying to be selfish. If there's something, anything I could do to help that poor kid you're mentioning, I'm all in. But, at the risk of my child? Sorry. I can't even believe that other child's parent would want that. I know if I was in that position I wouldn't.

    This isn't personal reasons. But, why would you be so quick to assume the gov't knows what they are doing? And what did happen to personal freedoms? Again, very unfortunate scenario you portray. I feel for it. But, we are going to POTENTIALLY hurt millions to save 1? That equation makes no sense.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,808
    Right! Also remember "the patriot act", where the government snuck in laws that congress never had time to review or whatever.

    In the patriot act was designated "vaccine court". A special court that heard only vaccine cases.

    The patriot act said that you can't bring suit against vaccine manufacturers ---virtually exempting them from laws that every other company in the country is held accountable under.

    Why the special treatment do you suppose?
  • London BridgeLondon Bridge USAPosts: 4,731
    The patriot act said that you can't bring suit against vaccine manufacturers ---virtually exempting them from laws that every other company in the country is held accountable under

    I have a problem with this. Everyone says to get the vaccinations, but if something goes wrong, you are fucked, and so is your child.

    So basically, you are gambling with your childs life, everytime you vaccinate them.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,515
    I totally respect those who wish to have your kids vaccinated and I have not had any scratch babies myself (you know- made from scratch as opposed to fostered etc.) and I'm not going to say you should or shouldn't have them vaccinated but I must tell you this because it is true: I have five nephew from the same mother and from four different fathers (long story there). None of the five boys has ever had a vaccination of any kind and they are all adults now between early 20's and late 30's and I've never seen one of the have even so much as a cold.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    antares434 wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I didn't question when I was a young mother in my late 20's.
    I had my kids vaccinated assuming the government would only provide totally
    safe commodities, safe choices for it's people ... government knows best right?
    Government is honest right?

    I was red white and blue but now I see everything seems to be based in greed, profit
    and the government can not be totally honest with its people. Can not.

    Now I would read everything I could find and decide what is truly dangerous to my child,
    a childhood disease or a vaccine and if it was necessary at all.

    I would not agree to a Hep B vaccine the day of my child's birth though,
    I've read enough on that to be a believer.

    Again what if studies did show a link between vaccines and autism ... can you imagine?
    Holy smokes


    Yes, governments are inefficient and can be corrupt. However, this does not mean there is a government conspiracy relating to vaccines.

    Yes, "big pharma" has been knowm to do bad things for profit. However, this is not evidence that the ingredients in vaccines are causing health problems like autism.

    What ifs and imaginary scenarios do not warrant telling someone that they shouldn't vaccinate their kids.
    I will repost this there are studies linking mercury to autism ...


    http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-s ... 8519.story

    Hepatitis B shot on day of birth is filled with mercury ...

    Government program started in 1990...


    http://www.mercuryexposure.info/context ... ere-autism
    “Effective excretionof mercury will lead to higher hair, blood and urine mercury levels in a population that is beingexposed to mercury at a constant, chronic, low level. The problem comes when those, who do noteffectively excrete mercury, become exposed to a large dose, such as infants already exposed to mercury during pregnancy and who in addition received thimerosal containing hepatitis-B vaccines on the day of birth. The USA EPA set a standard of exposure on the safe level of ingested methyl mercury of 0.1 mg/kg body weight. Using this safety level, the newborn would have had to weigh 125 kg to take this exposure safely."); Haley B.,Mercury toxicity: Genetic susceptibility and synergistic effects, Medical Veritas 2 (2005) 535–542535 ("This data in Figure 2 show that normal children have birth hair levels of mercury that correlate with the number of amalgam fillings in the birth mother; whereas, in sharp contrast, the autistic children have exceptionally low levels of birth hair mercury, no matter what the number of amalgam fillings are found in the birth mother. This data strongly implies that autistic children represent a subset of the population that does not effectively excrete mercury from their cells."


    Hep B vaccine also linked to a form of deadly Lupus
    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ ... ses-lupus/

    I am not speaking of conspiracy I am speaking of just what you speak of
    big bad pharma

    About this time is where the herd gets separated ....

    those who believe the government has our best interests at heart all of the time
    and those that don't

    last I saw the Government is not answering to us at all, in fact quite the opposite,
    but it is answering to those with the unbelievably large wallets ...
    near to bottomless wallets with endless power.

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    The biggest question I have

    are all these vaccines really needed?
    I've lived through, as many have, all the childhood diseases, we did just fine.

    The Hep B is not needed for children unless their mother is a proven carrier
    and the disease is then passed through child bearing yet it is routinely given on the day of birth.
    Why?

    That's a lot of babies and a lot of vaccine not needed.
    And a lot of profit for someone's company.

    And the yearly flu shot ... please

    not going near that ...

    I just saw a sign at the local pharmacy...
    we have shingles vaccinations available 24 hours a day 7 days a week

    I thought hmmm that was always rare... really shingles :?

    come to find out the chicken pox vaccine causes a rise in shingles cases
    good lord

    "Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine."

    ya don't want shingles better go get another vaccine for yourself or child
    shingles are brutal

    where does this end?

    no where as long as someone with the big wallet is making big bucks

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,254
    pandora wrote:
    The biggest question I have

    are all these vaccines really needed?
    I've lived through, as many have, all the childhood diseases, we did just fine.

    The Hep B is not needed for children unless their mother is a proven carrier
    and the disease is then passed through child bearing yet it is routinely given on the day of birth.
    Why?
    I have no idea why Hepatitis B vaccinations would be done so young. I thought the goal was to have kids vaccinated before the age of 12.

    Hep B is very easy to transmit. It can live in dried blood for weeks. It can be transmitted through contact with an infected person's blood but is usually sexually transmitted. It's fatal. When a vaccine was developed, it was first made available to health care workers because of their frequent exposure to blood. The idea of having kids vaccinated by age 12 was supposedly to immunize them before they are sexually active.

    I don't particularly care whether people vaccinate their kids or not. It's your business. I just find the anti-vaccine people a bit strident. Maybe vaccines aren't natural but there are plenty of unnatural things that are bad for you too.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,254
    rollings wrote:
    The number of vaccines have also been increasing.

    Ten years ago, I knew one person personally who had a child with autism.

    today I can easily name 20 people or more who has a child with autism, and these are people I either knew before my child or their child was born, and that I have met for reasons other than being autism-related.

    My point was not just to say that nobody at all heard of autism before rainman anyway. It was virtually unheard of. And today, it would be difficult to find someone who doesn't know someone who has a child with autism.
    I know you weren't saying that. And my point was to say that it was known enough 40 years ago that I learned about it in 9th grade health class. So it's not a new phenomenon. I also said that the rates of autism have increased. I don't know why but I don't think better reporting is the only reason. I'm just not sold on the vaccine argument.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    edited March 2012
    I think some people, not myself because I have not been hurt by these vaccines...
    but some people who have suffered a child's lifetime have a right to be strident

    it changed everything for them...

    I think if my child had had the chicken pox vaccine the government pushed in '95
    and now 17 years later was suffering with painful shingles, I would be strident too!
    I find that inexcusable.
    Shingles are God awful, make chicken pox look like a picnic in the park....
    oh but now they have a vaccine for that :?
    Post edited by pandora on

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,712
    Both of my kids had all of their shots when they were young , all good ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJaddictedPJaddicted Posts: 1,432
    pandora wrote:
    I think some people, not myself because I have not been hurt by these vaccines...
    but some people who have suffered a child's lifetime have a right to be strident

    it changed everything for them...

    I think if my child had had the chicken pox vaccine the government pushed in '95
    and now 17 years later was suffering with painful shingles, I would be strident too!
    I find that inexcusable.
    Shingles are God awful, make chicken pox look like a picnic in the park....
    oh but now they have a vaccine for that :?

    As you and I both know, once you give birth to a child...that changes EVERYTHING. If there is the slightest possibility that something could hurt my kids, I'm going to check into it and learn all I can. I do not trust that our government has our best interest in mind. Hell we have had trouble finding a DECENT doctor for the last 25 years. You must be responsible for your own health decisions. Don't blindly follow.....make educated decisions. If I had it to do all over again raising my sons....I'd have done a lot of it different. My kids are all adults, so it's too late now. But now I've taken control with my dog, he has and will receive limited vaccinations, possibly at 2 years old having his final one ever. At the vets office they have tried to scare me into using medications and I've stood strong, I feel confident in my research that what I'm doing is in MY dogs best interest.

    My heart goes out to parents who have a child with any disability, I can't imagine the heart ache and life time of sacrifice that they must endure.
    ~*LIVE~LOVE~LAUGH*~

    *May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*

    He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
    — Unknown
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,808
    (I just hitched this article to the moving train....)

    New CDC Study Shows Average Autism Prevalence Up 23% From 2009 Study

    Boston, MA – A study out today from the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC) indicates Autism now affects an alarming one in 88 children, (one in 54 boys) a sharp jump from the previous numbers released in late 2009, and frighteningly distant rate from one in 10,000 cases seen in the 1980s.

    Today’s study, conducted by the Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring (ADDM) Network office of the CDC, looked at eight-year-old children born in 2000. A previous study released by ADDM in 2009 showed autism spectrum disorders (ASD) affected one in 110 children. The number of children identified with ASDs in this study ranged from 1 in 210 children in Alabama to 1 in 47 children in Utah. CDC reports that the largest increases were among Hispanic and black children.

    According to a CDC press release issued today, “One thing the data tells us with certainty – there are many children and families who need help,” said CDC Director Thomas Frieden, M.D., M.P.H. “We must continue to track autism spectrum disorders because this is the information communities need to guide improvements in services to help children.

    The National Autism Association again calls for swift government action, including the declaration of the autism epidemic as a national health crisis. An immediate focus on the following areas is critical:

    Prevention:

    Genetics alone cannot explain the rise in autism. Proper study into environmental cofactors should be a top priority among our government, researchers and Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee (IACC).

    This latest study confirms that the number of children diagnosed with autism continued to rise among those born in 2000, before the removal of the mercury-based preservative thimerosal from most routine childhood vaccines. The findings are also consistent with recent studies 1, 2 indicating an association between the hepatitis B vaccine and brain damage.

    Parents have consistently stated that regression in their child occurred following immunizations. Further research on the increased use of vaccines is warranted and should be conducted with significant stakeholder input. Obvious research that has been ignored, such as health outcomes in vaccinated versus non-vaccinated populations must be undertaken.

    Certain subgroups may be more susceptible to environmental regression, including those with a family history of autoimmune disorders, premature infants, and children that are ill at the time of vaccination. Researching ways to decrease adverse reactions while increasing the safety of vaccines benefits the overall health of the general public.

    Treatment:

    Children with autism have underlying medical conditions that often go missed, dismissed or misunderstood. These conditions deserve the full attention of our government health agencies and medical research community. A recently published review of the world’s medical literature strongly implicates biochemical abnormalities including oxidative stress, immune dysregulation or inflammation, mitochondrial dysfunction and toxic exposures.

    Physicians should be sure and listen to each caregiver’s account of any medical issues their child with autism may have and not presume it to be behavioral.

    Treatment, services and therapies should be available to all individuals with autism. Insurance coverage for co-morbid medical conditions should be mandated nationwide.

    Studies on children that significantly progressed or completely lost a classic autism diagnosis should be conducted to uncover biological underpinnings.

    Clinical studies on promising treatments are necessary.

    Support:

    Wandering-related deaths remain on the rise among children diagnosed with autism. A wandering prevention protocol should be in the hands of pediatricians to increase awareness & education. Just yesterday, yet another child with Autism drowned after wandering away from a safe setting.

    School systems are overwhelmed by increased autism rates. Our community is in critical need of additional and properly trained special education personnel.

    Cameras in special education classrooms are crucial.

    Families are often unable to pay for basic speech and occupational therapies. Government aide is needed for these struggling families.

    We will soon be faced with a disproportionate number of diagnosed adults in need of housing, job assistance, and lifetime care. Preparation should begin immediately and resources allocated accordingly.

    A national strategy for autism is long overdue, as is a central federal web site dedicated to autism programs, assistance and information.

    “Autism is a national health emergency. Our hope is that the government will finally declare it as such so that proper prevention, treatments and resources will be put in place,” says NAA Executive Director Lori McIlwain. “Immediate action is necessary for our community, and for members of the general public who just became one doorstep closer to autism."

    For more information about autism, visit http://www.nationalautismassociation.org.

    --March 29, 2012
  • PJaddictedPJaddicted Posts: 1,432
    Rollings~Thank you!
    ~*LIVE~LOVE~LAUGH*~

    *May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*

    He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
    — Unknown
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    PJaddicted wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I think some people, not myself because I have not been hurt by these vaccines...
    but some people who have suffered a child's lifetime have a right to be strident

    it changed everything for them...

    I think if my child had had the chicken pox vaccine the government pushed in '95
    and now 17 years later was suffering with painful shingles, I would be strident too!
    I find that inexcusable.
    Shingles are God awful, make chicken pox look like a picnic in the park....
    oh but now they have a vaccine for that :?

    As you and I both know, once you give birth to a child...that changes EVERYTHING. If there is the slightest possibility that something could hurt my kids, I'm going to check into it and learn all I can. I do not trust that our government has our best interest in mind. Hell we have had trouble finding a DECENT doctor for the last 25 years. You must be responsible for your own health decisions. Don't blindly follow.....make educated decisions. If I had it to do all over again raising my sons....I'd have done a lot of it different. My kids are all adults, so it's too late now. But now I've taken control with my dog, he has and will receive limited vaccinations, possibly at 2 years old having his final one ever. At the vets office they have tried to scare me into using medications and I've stood strong, I feel confident in my research that what I'm doing is in MY dogs best interest.

    My heart goes out to parents who have a child with any disability, I can't imagine the heart ache and life time of sacrifice that they must endure.
    Beautiful post PJaddicted, I agree completely.
    I have to say I am glad I am not a young mother making a decision about all these vaccines today.
    I did vaccinate mine back in the 80's without question, I would be more careful today.

    You are an awesome Mom and Master! :D

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • CareyCarey Posts: 2,361
    pandora wrote:
    http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-study-more-kids-have-autism-than-previously-diagnosed-20120329,0,5978519.story

    Hepatitis B shot on day of birth is filled with mercury ...

    Government program started in 1990...


    http://www.mercuryexposure.info/context ... ere-autism
    Effective excretionof mercury will lead to higher hair, blood and urine mercury levels in a population that is beingexposed to mercury at a constant, chronic, low level. The problem comes when those, who do noteffectively excrete mercury, become exposed to a large dose, such as infants already exposed to mercury during pregnancy and who in addition received thimerosal containing hepatitis-B vaccines on the day of birth. The USA EPA set a standard of exposure on the safe level of ingested methyl mercury of 0.1 mg/kg body weight. Using this safety level, the newborn would have had to weigh 125 kg to take this exposure safely."); Haley B.,Mercury toxicity: Genetic susceptibility and synergistic effects, Medical Veritas 2 (2005) 535–542535 ("This data in Figure 2 show that normal children have birth hair levels of mercury that correlate with the number of amalgam fillings in the birth mother; whereas, in sharp contrast, the autistic children have exceptionally low levels of birth hair mercury, no matter what the number of amalgam fillings are found in the birth mother. This data strongly implies that autistic children represent a subset of the population that does not effectively excrete mercury from their cells."


    Hep B vaccine also linked to a form of deadly Lupus

    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ ... ses-lupus/



    It is possible to receive a T-free Hepatitis B vaccination. I know, because both my kids received this at birth.
    "Can't buy what I want because it's free..."
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,921
    edited April 2012
    rollings wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    admittedly by the medical community, there is so much not known about so many areas of the brain, and so much not known about how the immune system works....so when something like autism comes up, (and let's admit it ....(during the time of Rainman in what year 1988? did anybody know ANYONE with autism or even heard of it before?) so when suddenly all these kids start showing up at the doctors who can't talk at age 3 or don't communicate or who do repetive behaviors...there should have been BIG RED FLAGS raised and a "WOAH,...let's slow down here, Nellie" sign put up.
    I first heard of autism when I was in high school and learned about it in health class. Altho at the time the theory was that there were only autistic children. That was in 1970.

    When I was in college there was a clinic for autistic children on campus. My university had a large psychology program and even though it was located in a small town, the clinic served a lot of kids and had a lengthy waiting list. At the clinic the treatment stressed behavioral modification. The prevailing theory at the time (early 70s) was that autism was caused by bad parenting and that theory hung around for a long time.

    In the 80s I worked with someone who had an autistic son who was in his early 20s. When he was a child, his parents had difficulty finding school programs that would accept him.

    During all these times and for decades before that children were getting vaccinated. The rates of autism have increased, along with better understanding of the different types of autism and ways to treat it. I don't know the reasons for the increase but to answer your question, yes, I was aware of and knew of cases of autism a long time before Rainman.

    The number of vaccines have also been increasing.

    Ten years ago, I knew one person personally who had a child with autism.

    today I can easily name 20 people or more who has a child with autism, and these are people I either knew before my child or their child was born, and that I have met for reasons other than being autism-related.

    My point was not just to say that nobody at all heard of autism before rainman anyway. It was virtually unheard of. And today, it would be difficult to find someone who doesn't know someone who has a child with autism.

    What has also been increasing is the number of premature babies who survive past 1 year. I mean medecine has advanced so much in like the past few decades in this type of thing to the point where premature babies who are born super early and super small and wouldn't have survived a few decades ago are no actually living. If their brains aren't as developed as full term babies who knows how that would affect things like autism rates.

    What has been increasing as well is the average age at which woman have babies. I mean generations ago it was pretty standard for a woman to have babies in her early to mid-twenties if not earlier. Now it is a lot more common for women to have babies well into their 30's or even 40's. I am not a doctor so I have no idea if this means anything, just pointing out that vaccines aren't the only thing that has changed when it comes to babies over the last few decades, so to say that vaccines are the obvious cause of increased rates of autism, when their doesn't seem to be any proof seems foolish.
    Post edited by Kel Varnsen on
  • CareyCarey Posts: 2,361
    chadwick wrote:
    Carey wrote:
    RKCNDY wrote:
    I thought the reason people were NOT vaccinating their kids was because vaccines contain additives like mercury in them, and parents were scared of the toxins causing autism.

    My chiropractor has 3 kids, hasn't vaccinated any of them. I think they are ages 5-10. His reasons are the one I listed and he is a 'purist', organic everything, gets stuff from overseas that have stricter regulations on processing then the US does. He's not from the US either.

    I believe there is only one vaccine given in the US which contains thimerosal (which contains mercury), and I also believe it's one of the "flu shot" vaccines. But, not all batches of the "flu shot" contain this. In other words, it is possible to get a T-free vaccination for influenza. The CDC has never found a link between autism and vaccinations.
    that is not entirely true.

    Since 2001 all routinely recommended vaccines (except the flu shot) for administration to young children in the US contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts. The CDC part you can look up yourself. Its out there.
    "Can't buy what I want because it's free..."
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,921
    brianlux wrote:
    I have five nephew from the same mother and from four different fathers (long story there). None of the five boys has ever had a vaccination of any kind and they are all adults now between early 20's and late 30's and I've never seen one of the have even so much as a cold.

    I am glad your kids have never been sick, but anecdotal evidence is not actually proof of anything. If it was I could tell people not to buy car seats for their kids. I mean people obviously don't to spend money on them because I have never been in a car accident with my daughter.
  • looloolooloolooloo Posts: 378
    My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

    If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

    I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.
    "Sun sets on this ocean- never once on my devotion."

    "If I had this guy's voice, you could all kiss my ass."
  • stargirl69stargirl69 Posts: 6,387
    loolooloo wrote:
    My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

    If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

    I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

    Great post,well said
    “There should be a place where only the things you want to happen, happen”
  • mikalinamikalina Posts: 7,206
    stargirl69 wrote:
    loolooloo wrote:
    My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

    If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

    I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

    Great post,well said


    I agree with this as well.

    Both my kids were vaccinated... And I had concerns but no real hard evidence not too.

    There is "risks" in everything and lets not forget OTC medications that we give our children. I just found out that "baby" tylenol has been pulled, or at least not recommend under the age of 6 months or 1 year.

    Children will not suffer thru polio, scarlet fever etc just by being vaccinated.

    I believe every parent needs to do what is best for them and their children.
    ********************************************************************************************* image
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,808
    edited April 2012
    loolooloo wrote:
    If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them......... . But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

    The problem is...autism is a set of behaviors. (see below). It's not considered medical. It's diagnnosis is found in the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) for Mental Disorders"

    That's right. One in every 54 boys are being diagnosed with what the medical community considers a mental disorder.

    Until common underlying biomedical evidence is fully studied and understood and recognized, a link between something medical and mere symptoms WILL BE VERY HARD TO PROVE, if not almost impossible.

    The biological underpinnings are just now rising to the surface. Oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, immune system abnormalities. These may have been caused by all the things you mention, such as over use of anti-biotics, etc.

    Vaccines DO harm children who have oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, and immune system abnormalities. But babies are NOT tested to see if these conditions exist. That's just one of many problems.

    It is the people like your neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's who, when affected, dig deeper for answers than what is available on the surface.



    Diagnostic Criteria for 299.00 Autistic Disorder

    [The following is from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV]


    (I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)


    (A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

    1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

    2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

    3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

    4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the description, it gives the following as examples: not actively participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or "mechanical" aids )


    (B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

    1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

    2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

    3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

    4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level


    (C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:

    1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

    2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals

    3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

    4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects



    (II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:

    (A) social interaction

    (B) language as used in social communication

    (C) symbolic or imaginative play

    (III) The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder
    Post edited by rollings on
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 136,502
    stargirl69 wrote:
    loolooloo wrote:
    My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

    If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

    I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

    Great post,well said
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • rollingsrollings unknownPosts: 6,808
    Carey wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-study-more-kids-have-autism-than-previously-diagnosed-20120329,0,5978519.story

    Hepatitis B shot on day of birth is filled with mercury ...

    Government program started in 1990...


    http://www.mercuryexposure.info/context ... ere-autism
    Effective excretionof mercury will lead to higher hair, blood and urine mercury levels in a population that is beingexposed to mercury at a constant, chronic, low level. The problem comes when those, who do noteffectively excrete mercury, become exposed to a large dose, such as infants already exposed to mercury during pregnancy and who in addition received thimerosal containing hepatitis-B vaccines on the day of birth. The USA EPA set a standard of exposure on the safe level of ingested methyl mercury of 0.1 mg/kg body weight. Using this safety level, the newborn would have had to weigh 125 kg to take this exposure safely."); Haley B.,Mercury toxicity: Genetic susceptibility and synergistic effects, Medical Veritas 2 (2005) 535–542535 ("This data in Figure 2 show that normal children have birth hair levels of mercury that correlate with the number of amalgam fillings in the birth mother; whereas, in sharp contrast, the autistic children have exceptionally low levels of birth hair mercury, no matter what the number of amalgam fillings are found in the birth mother. This data strongly implies that autistic children represent a subset of the population that does not effectively excrete mercury from their cells."


    Hep B vaccine also linked to a form of deadly Lupus

    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ ... ses-lupus/



    It is possible to receive a T-free Hepatitis B vaccination. I know, because both my kids received this at birth.

    Yes, Hep-B does not contain thimerosol anymore. It now contains aluminum. (source vaccine package insert)

    aluminum has the same capacity to penetrate the protective blood brain barrier as does mercury. It's molecular structure is such so that it settles in the brain's glial cells which in turn reaks havoc on the anti-immunity structure of the brain , causing it to produce anti-brain antibodies, it;s very sad. My source is a John Hopkins study. It's not easy reading, but not impossible to understand.

    So....there's not a link between vaccines and autism...but there is a link between the additives in a vaccine and what COULD be the cause of autism.

    Do most people have anit-brain antibodies? no. Is it common with chilrden with autism? Very. My source? Published medical journals. Who reads these things? Not most people, that's for sure. And why would they.... I wouldn't if my child were not affected.

    Is my thinking wrong? aluminum in the brain can causes anti-brain antibodies. anti-brain antibodies is common in autism. This is just ONE of the links that I must question while I am reading medical research publications.

    the strange thing is...I have NEVER suspected vaccines to cause my son's autism, and I never research "vaccines and autism". I only Started to suspected vaccines because links like the above (aluminum, anti-bodies) kept presenting themselves time and time again in my research otherwise.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 136,502
    i dont have kids,and not specialty and infos at this matter,ut i trust some people know beter this matters..
    btw, this is one of the most intresting threads ever read at the forum..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • prismprism Posts: 2,440
    loolooloo wrote:
    My kids received the American Academy of Pediatric's recommendation for childhood vaccinations. You know why? Because I trust their research more than Fox News'. Vaccines save lives. Might there be risks? YES. Every single thing, whether it is labeled "natural" or not, poses a risk when you put it in or on your body. It's called being human. Multivitamins, antibiotics, processed carbs, processed everything, medications for everything, a diagnosis for everything....everything is dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary, huh? Everything can kill you at any given time. Even if it says "organic." If you have a severe peanut allergy, organic peanut butter will still close up your airway just like the processed stuff. So what do we do? Build a bubble for the kids? No. We take a deep breath, try not to get sucked up into conspiracy theories, and make intelligent decisions.

    If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them. They are now also shielded from diseases that have the potential to kill them, their elderly grandparents, and unvaccinated children. Yes, I have seen the "harmless" chicken pox almost kill an infant..and I've seen elderly folks who's life was devastated by polio.

    I respect some aspects of holistic medicine, and believe some of its practices are extremely beneficial. I also believe that many doctors over prescribe many types of medication. But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

    very well stated....i totally agree.

    my sister fell for the fear mongering that vaccines are bad, so didn't have her kids immunized (besides they were home-schooled.) she herself hadn't receieved any DTaP booster in 30 years. they live in a small town where the majority of kids have never been immunized, and she deals with kids @ work & church. well just last fall there was a pertussis (whooping cough) outbreak in their area. yes she contracted it, and ended up in the ER four times and was admitted twiced. insurance covered little of those expenses. she was extremely sick and out of work for 6 weeks. since all of that could've been prevented with a booster vaccine....needless to say she's changed her tune.

    i'm immunocompromised so it's imparative that i keep up to date on my boosters and get flu vaccines. in '96 i got the flu and it turned into pneumonia & i was hospitalized 6 days...was unable to work or do much of anything for over a month....yep, i'll take a yearly flu shot instead, thanks.

    should add that flu shots DO NOT cause the flu...they can take a week or two to take full effect & sometimes ppl contract it during that span, but it's not from the flu vaccine (they don't contain live virus) it's also possble they contracted a flu-strain that wasn't covered by that particular vaccine.

    also both my kids were preemies and therefore more succeptable to any number of preventable diseases. so yes they were both vaccinated and they grew up just fine.
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
  • covered in blisscovered in bliss chi-caw-goPosts: 1,288
    Back in Sept 2002, my just-turned-3 year old had big check marks next to all of the criteria Rollings posted above! I always felt that something was 'off' with him but family and friends talked me out of it and his pediatrician wasn't really any help, either. She was concerned when he wasn't talking at age 2 but shortly after, he -did- start talking so once again, she wasn't really concerned.

    Our school district has a preschool screening for 3 year olds and after seeing him for about 20 minutes, they asked if we could stay, they wanted to do a full evaluation. Fast forward 3 hours and we were given a school supply list of things to bring the next day and a diagnosis of autism.

    He went to early childhood education 5 days a week for 2 years, even summer school! I would help out there once or twice a week and some of the other kids were VERY autistic...not at all like my son and the autism diagnosis was quite confusing at first!

    They didn't think he was ready to be integrated into regular kindergarten so he went into a pre-k program with more special needs kids... fetal alcohol syndrome, aspergers, etc. Both of these schools\programs were excellent about bringing 'normal' kids in frequently to get some positive peer interaction.

    By the time he entered 1st grade, he was a new child. He still met the criteria for autism but just barely. During 3rd grade he was 'downgraded' to PDDNOS but still had a full-time classroom aide assigned to him to kind of keep an eye on things. The aide was eventually changed to part-time (certain classes) and then dropped altogether for 5th grade and at his 3 year evaluation last spring, he didn't meet ANY criteria for anything! we sat at a conference table with his current teachers, a social worker, psychologist, speech therapist..... none of us could find a single thing and none of the tests given to him placed him anywhere on the spectrum.

    He started junior high this year with no aide, no speech therapy, nothing 'officially' labeling him as anything. When my husband and I went to parent teacher conferences, none of the teachers seemed to know anything about his past history (kind of shocking).

    He's a straight A student with many friends... plays team sports, etc. He does have a few quirks and has problems with reading comprehension at school (but only if he's not interested in the subject matter).

    Through all of this we never skipped a vaccination or stuck to a gluten free diet for more than a few weeks because it didn't seem to help him. Early intervention through the school district really saved us. We didn't have any outside assistance or therapy. When we watch old home movies, we can't believe how far he's come, how much he's changed. We often wonder why??

    Autism is such a scary thing, today's statistics are shocking. To think that parents put everyone else in danger by not getting their kids vaccinated just adds to the crap a parent has to worry about! If it's this bad right now, what's it going to be like in 10 years? what percent of kids won't be vaccinated and when are the horrible diseases going to start spreading around hard-core?
  • looloolooloolooloo Posts: 378
    rollings wrote:
    loolooloo wrote:
    If sound evidence pointed to vaccines causing autism, I would listen. But fortunately, it doesn't. Again, vaccines can and do have side effects, and I am fortunate that my kids never had a reaction to them......... . But for now, I'll look to the pediatric and immunologic research instead of a neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's thoughts on autism and vaccines.

    The problem is...autism is a set of behaviors. (see below). It's not considered medical. It's diagnnosis is found in the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) for Mental Disorders"

    That's right. One in every 54 boys are being diagnosed with what the medical community considers a mental disorder.

    Until common underlying biomedical evidence is fully studied and understood and recognized, a link between something medical and mere symptoms WILL BE VERY HARD TO PROVE, if not almost impossible.

    The biological underpinnings are just now rising to the surface. Oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, immune system abnormalities. These may have been caused by all the things you mention, such as over use of anti-biotics, etc.

    Vaccines DO harm children who have oxidative stress, mitochondria dysfunction, and immune system abnormalities. But babies are NOT tested to see if these conditions exist. That's just one of many problems.

    It is the people like your neighbor's uncle's wife's sister's who, when affected, dig deeper for answers than what is available on the surface.

    [/i]

    I agree that more research needs to be done on this, and most mental disorders. The DSM, while useful, does little to help explain mental illness (which yes, of course is a medical problem), and relies on grouping symptoms together. Again, this can be useful in diagnosing and insurance billing, but as far as the cause of most mental illness, the medical community is just beginning to scratch the surface. Digging deeper is great. I just get fearful when people start jumping in the hole! (Ok, that's bad cliche)

    Unfortunately, research takes money, and you know who has the money? The drug companies. You know who doesn't have a pharmacological treatment for Autism? The drug companies. So, it's a negative feed back loop- We need money for research, drug companies don't want to give money where they will have no money in return, and the cycle continues. We need some more Bill Gates of the world to start throwing millions into mental health. Until then, I just try to stay sane.
    "Sun sets on this ocean- never once on my devotion."

    "If I had this guy's voice, you could all kiss my ass."
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Pediatricians Beholden to Drug Companies

    The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), a major supporter of mandatory chickenpox and other vaccine mandates across the country, shares incestuous financial ties with Merck. When constructing its new headquarters in suburban Chicago, the AAP solicited funds from Merck, and received $100,000 for its building campaign.


    Vaccines represent an economic boon for pediatricians. Profitable well-baby visits are timed to coincide with vaccination schedules established by the AAP and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).


    (Merck would have stood to lose 200+ million per year on the vaccination if halted.)

    again ...

    this chicken pox vaccination, who the AAP firmly supported, is now leading to an increase in shingles in our population... a much more dangerous and painful disease.

    Vaccines have disturbed our natural defenses/natural disease order, which is clearly shown
    in these two 'cousin illnesses',
    this separate from the fact vaccines are made from dangerous ingredients,
    ones not properly tested long term.

    Vaccines = Big $$$$

    "Judge yourself if you feel the need
    Just let me known to be
    In search of the truth myself
    There is a drop of blood on the ground
    And it seems to me that it's not my kind
    And I can't be sure if its yours or mine."
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,254
    Cases of chicken pox lead to shingles. Once you've had the disease you carry the herpes zoster virus in your body for life. When you are older or have a compromised immune system, the virus manifests itself as outbreaks of shingles.

    Where did you find the information that the vaccine causes it?
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
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