Trayvon Martin

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  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    While this is a tragedy on all fronts, what I think is even more tragic is how this is quickly becoming a manufactured race war. Here we have Zimmerman, who people automatically assumed was a white guy, and then they found out he was Hispanic, so they have to remedy that by using the term "white-hispanic". Please tell me in what universe, this guy would not just be referred to as hispanic or latino? That would be like calling Obama our first "white-black" President. So all this does is further incite violent rhetoric, because people assume just because the guy is white...uh...I mean white-hispanic...that he automatically gets a free pass by the system. Since the police haven't arrested him, and no one here really knows all of the facts surrounding the case except for the police...they may actually not have any grounds to arrest him. I know it's crazy, but if others gave statements to police that it was self-defense, and it corroborated with what Zimmerman said, then they may not have the ability to legally arrest him. I can't imagine they wouldn't be able to, but it's a possibility that must be considered. You can't arrest someone just for show.

    What I think is even more disturbing is why is it that black leaders want to promote a view that blacks are constantly the victim and always under attack by whites? I mean some of the rhetoric I've heard over the last few days would make you think that blacks are being murdered at will by throngs of white folks. Why does the media want to propagate this view? Don't get me wrong, there's no doubt that some whites, or I guess now "white-hispanics" still exhibit racism against blacks, but there is no way that is anywhere close to the biggest problem they face. I'm thankful that I have friends who slap me back into reality when shit like this comes up. A buddy of mine the other day was fuming...and I just knew it was about all of this, but it wasn't Zimmerman he was pissed at. I mean yes, that asshole should go to jail if he killed Martin for anything other than self-defense, and even then it's questionable since he followed him. No he wasn't pissed about that, he was about to explode at black leaders. Nothing pisses him off more than being thought of as a victim, and to be honest it should piss him off. White people have had it easy, and blacks have fought the bondage of slavery to accel at every level of our society in the last 150 years. The problems blacks face now are not with whites and white-hispanics, it's primarily a result of their community, their leaders, and the government. When as a community they have the same outrage, and the same unity over the senseless killing of blacks, committed by other blacks, then they will actually be making a tremendous difference. Otherwise, those problems will continue to be swept under the rug, and random acts by idiots like Zimmerman will continue to be the fuel that ignites hate.
  • Monster Rain
    Monster Rain Posts: 1,415
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    no, the police did not act. they showed up, asked a few questions, called the coroner and let the shooter walk. they did not even book him or do any follow up investigation until the people reacted angrily. you can detain people for probable cause. they know he killed trayvon. they need to lock him up if for nothing else than for his own protection.

    To be fair, they did take him to the station for questioning. They just didn't arrest him after they finished interviewing him. They can't lock him up without charging him and at the time they felt that there wasn't enough evidence to charge him with anything. I agree that they never should have said they considered the case closed, though. It's obvious that there are enough questions about what happened that night to warrant a continued investigation so they can be certain they are making the right decision based on a thorough investigation and review of the facts. It could very well end up that Zimmerman is cleared and his version of events is really what happened, but not too many people are going to accept that if the police don't follow up properly.

    The media firestorm over this case is a double-edged sword. One one hand, the stories about it have resulted in the investigation being re-opened and other agencies getting involved, so that's good. The public should be able to hold the police accountable for their actions since the police are supposed to protect the public. On the other hand, if Zimmerman really is innocent and really was attacked from behind as he tried to walk away and Martin really did reach for his gun then he's been villified in the press as a murderer unjustly. I'm guilty of it myself because I assumed that the reports of him following Martin after being asked not to were 100% true. I still think they may be true but I've got some doubts now based on more information that's come out. I still think he's a bit overzealous as far as calling the police goes (it seems like he called the cops any time anyone he didn't recognize walked through his neighborhood) but that doesn't automatically make him guilty any more than being out at around 7 PM on a Suday makes Martin guilty of anything.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    usamamasan1 wrote:
    A broken nose and the back of his skull smashed into the ground...
    Seems like the dead man was rather violent no?


    I can’t understand why people don’t think this teen had a right to fight for his life? This wasn’t a police officer following this teen; it was a man with a gun.

    Zimmerman did not shot him under the original guidelines of the ‘stand your ground’ law, because he didn’t confronted the teen until after he started pursued him.

    Zimmerman created a stalker situation, whereby, it was Zimmerman, an ordinary citizen, pursuing a teen, with a gun. At this point, this teen, and any other person, has the right to defend themselves.

    Zimmerman wasn’t prepared for this teen to fight for his life, so he killed him and claimed self-defense by reason of the ‘stand your ground’ law.

    These State legislators are asking ordinary people to judge a person’s state of mind when it’s in an agitated state, even law enforcement have SPECIAL UNITS to handle these types of situations.

    There are so many everyday things that piss us off and make us confront a person to let them know what a complete asswipe they are – for that – do you deserve to die? Now that people understand these ‘stand your ground and make my day laws’, game on.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,815
    So many hypocrites, so little time.


    The reality is if Zimmerman never confronted Trayvon, then Trayvon would be alive.

    Who really knows what happened. It seems likely that Trayvon may have seen the gun and decided to fight for his life by striking first.

    So, Zimmerman created this conflict. Zimmerman is no angel. And neither is Trayvon. It's not character assassination when the truth comes out. It's just the truth.

    I also find it funny that it took so long for Zimmerman to be identified as Hispanic....very interesting. You want to talk about racism, start there. This is only going to get uglier. There is no outcome that is good for anyone. The real lesson here is that idiots need to stop carrying guns and parents need to take some responsibility for their kids. Suspended from school and the mother sends him to Florida for a vacation? Suspended from school and the father lets him out of the house to go to the store? Really? Nice parenting. The whole situation reeks of idiots.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,057
    puremagic wrote:
    usamamasan1 wrote:
    A broken nose and the back of his skull smashed into the ground...
    Seems like the dead man was rather violent no?


    I can’t understand why people don’t think this teen had a right to fight for his life? This wasn’t a police officer following this teen; it was a man with a gun.

    Zimmerman did not shot him under the original guidelines of the ‘stand your ground’ law, because he didn’t confronted the teen until after he started pursued him.

    Zimmerman created a stalker situation, whereby, it was Zimmerman, an ordinary citizen, pursuing a teen, with a gun. At this point, this teen, and any other person, has the right to defend themselves.

    Zimmerman wasn’t prepared for this teen to fight for his life, so he killed him and claimed self-defense by reason of the ‘stand your ground’ law.

    These State legislators are asking ordinary people to judge a person’s state of mind when it’s in an agitated state, even law enforcement have SPECIAL UNITS to handle these types of situations.

    There are so many everyday things that piss us off and make us confront a person to let them know what a complete asswipe they are – for that – do you deserve to die? Now that people understand these ‘stand your ground and make my day laws’, game on.

    Agree. 100%
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    acoustic guy wrote:
    For all the Trayvon supporters.....
    You dont know what the hell you are talking about. ZERO.
    You dont know anything regarding the true facts of this case. You are making opinions based on a Liberal filter and speclations.
    All this racist bullshit thats being brought into this is fucked up. Learn about what the truth is then open your mouth. And sadly that wont come out until the trial.

    i agree! fucking liberal media making up fake 911 calls...really, how low can they stoop?!!
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Suspended from school and the mother sends him to Florida for a vacation?.

    From what I understand, he was not sent to Florida, he was already schooling in Florida/Miami-Dade area. Then for the suspension he was sent to stay with his dad at his dads fiance's home, which is in 'Seminole County', Central Florida area, closer to Orlando.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    acoustic guy wrote:
    For all the Trayvon supporters.....
    You dont know what the hell you are talking about. ZERO.
    You dont know anything regarding the true facts of this case. You are making opinions based on a Liberal filter and speclations.
    All this racist bullshit thats being brought into this is fucked up. Learn about what the truth is then open your mouth. And sadly that wont come out until the trial.

    Let's list the facts of the case, shall we?
    Zimmerman shot his gun at Martin, and Martin died.

    Need any more facts?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,289
    If it was Zimmerman in the hoodie and he was killed by a wannabe rent-a-cop with skin as pale as Tom Petty, would the term white-hispanic be used? The reason I ask is because of the racial tension this story has created throughout the nation.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907
    Jeanwah wrote:
    acoustic guy wrote:
    For all the Trayvon supporters.....
    You dont know what the hell you are talking about. ZERO.
    You dont know anything regarding the true facts of this case. You are making opinions based on a Liberal filter and speclations.
    All this racist bullshit thats being brought into this is fucked up. Learn about what the truth is then open your mouth. And sadly that wont come out until the trial.

    Let's list the facts of the case, shall we?
    Zimmerman shot his gun at Martin, and Martin died.

    Need any more facts?

    boy what a simplistic and ridiculous view. of course we need more facts. there are still unanswered questions, especially considering the ridiculous florida law which whether you agree with or not may or may not come into play here. so yes uhh need way more facts. more facts and less rhetoric from people with an agenda that have nothing to do with this particular case.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    pjhawks wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    acoustic guy wrote:
    For all the Trayvon supporters.....
    You dont know what the hell you are talking about. ZERO.
    You dont know anything regarding the true facts of this case. You are making opinions based on a Liberal filter and speclations.
    All this racist bullshit thats being brought into this is fucked up. Learn about what the truth is then open your mouth. And sadly that wont come out until the trial.

    Let's list the facts of the case, shall we?
    Zimmerman shot his gun at Martin, and Martin died.

    Need any more facts?

    boy what a simplistic and ridiculous view. of course we need more facts. there are still unanswered questions, especially considering the ridiculous florida law which whether you agree with or not may or may not come into play here. so yes uhh need way more facts. more facts and less rhetoric from people with an agenda that have nothing to do with this particular case.

    Simplistic and ridiculous? Come up with more facts then (and you better not look to the media for them...) Typically, when a person shoots a person dead, that person is arrested for at least manslaughter. Only in backwards Florida, does this not happen. That last sentence you wrote - show me in my post where I have an agenda.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907
    Jeanwah wrote:

    Simplistic and ridiculous? Come up with more facts then (and you better not look to the media for them...) Typically, when a person shoots a person dead, that person is arrested for at least manslaughter. Only in backwards Florida, does this not happen. That last sentence you wrote - show me in my post where I have an agenda.

    1st typically most states don't have the same law as florida. You've even alluded to that. there is a gray area with the law here. if zimmerman was attacked and punched 1st than there MAY be a case based on that law. again agree with the florida law or not there MAY be a case that he shouldn't be charged based on said law.

    2nd i didn't mean you were the one with the agenda but people like al sharpton and the likes trying to make this a white-black issue. and it's not

    3rd - saying zimmerman should be charged because his gun was fired and the kid is dead but with NO FACTS about what happened is as poor of an assumption as zimmerman had that trayvon was a criminal becauase he was young black and wearing a hoodie. in my opinion you are trying to simplify something that is not nearly that simple. and it's nothing personal by me saying that.
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    This is going to get more and more ugly and the media is going to bank of this kid's death.

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-d ... z1qGztV3LT

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/ ... rks-769123

    Maybe his family will bank off his death as well.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    pjhawks wrote:
    1st typically most states don't have the same law as florida. You've even alluded to that. there is a gray area with the law here. if zimmerman was attacked and punched 1st than there MAY be a case based on that law. again agree with the florida law or not there MAY be a case that he shouldn't be charged based on said law.

    3rd - saying zimmerman should be charged because his gun was fired and the kid is dead but with NO FACTS about what happened is as poor of an assumption as zimmerman had that trayvon was a criminal becauase he was young black and wearing a hoodie. in my opinion you are trying to simplify something that is not nearly that simple. and it's nothing personal by me saying that.

    1. i think i read there are like 26 states with similar legislation and that south carolina is already working to amend it ...

    3. i think the police work in the case from the forensics onward was piss poor ... it is why the chief of police received a vote of non-confidence ... some of that is PR but there is grounds that the police force didn't adequately do their job and due diligence ... and their rush to close the case ultimately has led to this clustercuss ...
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    edited March 2012
    puremagic wrote:
    usamamasan1 wrote:
    A broken nose and the back of his skull smashed into the ground...
    Seems like the dead man was rather violent no?


    I can’t understand why people don’t think this teen had a right to fight for his life? This wasn’t a police officer following this teen; it was a man with a gun.

    Zimmerman did not shot him under the original guidelines of the ‘stand your ground’ law, because he didn’t confronted the teen until after he started pursued him.

    Zimmerman created a stalker situation, whereby, it was Zimmerman, an ordinary citizen, pursuing a teen, with a gun. At this point, this teen, and any other person, has the right to defend themselves.

    Zimmerman wasn’t prepared for this teen to fight for his life, so he killed him and claimed self-defense by reason of the ‘stand your ground’ law.

    These State legislators are asking ordinary people to judge a person’s state of mind when it’s in an agitated state, even law enforcement have SPECIAL UNITS to handle these types of situations.

    There are so many everyday things that piss us off and make us confront a person to let them know what a complete asswipe they are – for that – do you deserve to die? Now that people understand these ‘stand your ground and make my day laws’, game on.
    From the reports Zimmerman wasn’t flashing his gun around. If Trayvon threw the first punch, Zimmerman will have a case of self-defense. If Zimmerman initiated physical contact before Trayvon, then Zimmerman is guilty of murder. This detail only Zimmerman knows.
    This is a tragedy.
    For everyone asking for Zimmerman's arrest, what would you charge him with? At this point not much will stick...

    This is a classic example of an incident that could have easily been avoided by either party involved, had both used just a little common sense.

    Zimmerman, should have stayed in his car and on the phone with the dispatcher, instead of getting out and following the kid. Which is what he was supposed to do.

    Trayvon, should have used his head the moment he noticed someone following him, and moved to a well lit open area and called the police himself to report as much. This is what your supposed to do if you find yourself in this kind of situation.
    Post edited by shadowcast on
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    shadowcast wrote:
    From the reports Zimmerman wasn’t flashing his gun around. If Trayvon threw the first punch, Zimmerman will have a case of self-defense. If Zimmerman initiated physical contact before Trayvon, then Zimmerman is guilty of murder. This detail only Zimmerman knows.
    This is a tragedy.
    For everyone asking for Zimmerman's arrest, what would you charge him with? At this point not much will stick...

    i pose this ... if you are being followed at night with no one around ... is that grounds to feel like you are being threatened!?? ... could someone going back to their SUV be a kin to someone reaching into their coat pocket? ...
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    edited March 2012
    polaris_x wrote:
    shadowcast wrote:
    From the reports Zimmerman wasn’t flashing his gun around. If Trayvon threw the first punch, Zimmerman will have a case of self-defense. If Zimmerman initiated physical contact before Trayvon, then Zimmerman is guilty of murder. This detail only Zimmerman knows.
    This is a tragedy.
    For everyone asking for Zimmerman's arrest, what would you charge him with? At this point not much will stick...

    i pose this ... if you are being followed at night with no one around ... is that grounds to feel like you are being threatened!?? ... could someone going back to their SUV be a kin to someone reaching into their coat pocket? ...
    If I am by myself and being followed I'm goin o get the hell out of the situation by leaving the area. Or maybe calling the cops my self.

    Side Note:If the Paparazzi had guns then there would probably be a few less actors around.
    Post edited by shadowcast on
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    shadowcast wrote:
    If I am by myself and being followed I'm goigt o get the hell out of the situation by leaving the area. Or maybe calling the cops my self.

    Side Note:If the Paparazzi had guns then there would probably be a few less actors around.

    that would be a wise decision ... but that doesn't really answer the question ...
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    polaris_x wrote:
    shadowcast wrote:
    If I am by myself and being followed I'm goigt o get the hell out of the situation by leaving the area. Or maybe calling the cops my self.

    Side Note:If the Paparazzi had guns then there would probably be a few less actors around.

    that would be a wise decision ... but that doesn't really answer the question ...
    Yeah it does.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    shadowcast wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    shadowcast wrote:
    If I am by myself and being followed I'm goigt o get the hell out of the situation by leaving the area. Or maybe calling the cops my self.

    Side Note:If the Paparazzi had guns then there would probably be a few less actors around.

    that would be a wise decision ... but that doesn't really answer the question ...
    Yeah it does.

    no it doesn't ... i am asking you if you are being followed - is that grounds for being threatened ... i didn't ask you what you would do ...

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