Baseball Hall Of Fame.....

SPEEDY MCCREADY · January 2012

Grace led the decade of the 90's in hits...

Who were the BIG 1st Baseman of the decade....

Palmiero and Mccguire???

Steroid freaks who will NEVER see the Hall Of Fame....

Grace deserves it more than those 2...... Right????

And trust me...
I know Grace isnt a Hall of Fame player....
And either is Larkin....

Just my opinion....

81 · January 2012

F Me In The Brain wrote:

intodeep wrote:

I have always felt they need to redo the hall.

You need to honor people like Barry Larkin but you can't consider him a baseball legend. He was a great player

They should have multiple levels of the hall of fame and people should be inducted into their right group. Maybe 3 or 4 levels with the top one being names that when echoed you know you are talking about one of the greatest ever to play

I mean Babe Ruth and Barry Larkin are not even playing in the same ballpark.

Hehe, not really many people that would be considered in the same ballpark as The Babe. (Hitting more homers than the team totals for the rest of the league? And boozing like a grade A champ all the while? He was epic!)

Lark would have had more gold gloves to add had everyone not insisted on honoring The Wizard of Oz well past his prime. Same thing for All Star Starts.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem4.shtml

just look at the % of votes recieved. you have the 90%'s, the 80%'s and the people that sneaked in with 75%-79.9%

81 · January 2012

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Grace led the decade of the 90's in hits...

Who were the BIG 1st Baseman of the decade....

Palmiero and Mccguire???

Steroid freaks who will NEVER see the Hall Of Fame....

Grace deserves it more than those 2...... Right????

And trust me...
I know Grace isnt a Hall of Fame player....
And either is Larkin....

Just my opinion....

sid bream.

EdsonNascimento · January 2012

intodeep wrote:

I mean Babe Ruth and every other baseball player are not even playing in the same ballpark.

Look at Babe's stats. They hold up with the steroid era players. Then compare him vs. his contemporaries. He was futher ahead of his era than Gretzky or Jordan. The only one that probably comes close is Tiger. Scary. So, I guess you would have another level just for Babe Ruth.

It's a museum. I never understood getting the least bit upset about this stuff. Skip his plaque next time you're there. Believe me, there are a ton of guys you've never heard of in there.

Larkin deserves to be in. He would be a top SS in any era. That's a good criteria to go by.

Don't compare a slap hitting 1B to a (relatively) power/speed/fielding SS.

DewieCox · January 2012

Monster Rain wrote:

Lee Smith retired with the all-time saves record, but he really had that record simply because he stuck around long enough to compile the numbers. He was rarely the best closer in the league--there were usually several closers who were better than him. He had a very high ERA for a closer in several seasons and wasn't the dominant force that guys like Rivera and Eckersley are/were. Saves are a bit of a misleading stat because even a mediocre closer can have 35-40 saves if he has a big enough lead when he enters the game. I wouldn't rank Smith as highly as Eckersley, Gossage, Fingers, Rivera, or Hoffman.

I dunno if he was ever the best, but he broke the saves record after only 13 season. Maybe he compiled after, but he averaged 30 saves a season for 8 years and later 45 for 4 years around the time he broke the record. Only had a whip above 1.4 4x, 2 being his last 2 years.

You mention Eckersley, but he's notorious for gettin easy saves.

DewieCox · January 2012

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Grace led the decade of the 90's in hits...

Who were the BIG 1st Baseman of the decade....

Palmiero and Mccguire???

Steroid freaks who will NEVER see the Hall Of Fame....

Grace deserves it more than those 2...... Right????

And trust me...
I know Grace isnt a Hall of Fame player....
And either is Larkin....

Just my opinion....

Frank Thomas

More, than Mcgwire? Get outta here

Grace was a very good player, but never one of the best.

Larkin was the perfect transition from SS's like Ozzie to guys like Arod. He was the best SS in the NL for a good while. Not anybody can stop the Wizard's streak of Allstar starts and Gold Gloves.

Monster Rain · January 2012

Even taking away McGwire and Palmiero, you still have guyslike Frank Thomas and Fred McGriff who were both much better than Grace, plus guys like Will Clark and Don Mattingly who were better than Grace (but to a lesser extent than the other 2).

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Grace led the decade of the 90's in hits...

Who were the BIG 1st Baseman of the decade....

Palmiero and Mccguire???

Steroid freaks who will NEVER see the Hall Of Fame....

Grace deserves it more than those 2...... Right????

And trust me...
I know Grace isnt a Hall of Fame player....
And either is Larkin....

Just my opinion....

pjhawks · January 2012

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

i thought Larkin was borderline. kind of surprised he made it. I think if Barry Larkin is a Hall-of-Famer then Jimmy Rollins should be right there.

and Jack Morris should have made it. that guy was a top pitcher for a while and a big game pitcher. don't care about the numbers.

I don't get the hate on Larkin, he was one of the first shortstops that could hit, as someone else said. Prior to him, shortstops were of the Ozzie offensive numbers, after they are of the Jeter/Nomar/Arod.

Hilarious about Rollins. Larkin played for 19 seasons and had better numbers in his last year than Rollins has had in 3 years or so, granted Larkin has a few down years before that, but the point stands, you can't even compare the two.

CSN Philly does the comparison today. If he stays healthty Rollins will end up with better numbers in almost every category than Larkin except batting average. see below.

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/phillies- ... feedID=704

Monster Rain · January 2012

Even if you acknowledge Eckersley's easy saves, he was still much more dominant than Smith ever was. Look at his ERA each year from 1987-1992: 3.03, 2.35, 1.56, 0.61, 2.96, 1.91. Eckersley never had a WHIP at 1.4 or higher as a closer and had 5 straight season with a WHIP under 1. Smith never had a WHIP below 1 in any season. Smith had an ERA over 3.00 9 times as a closer in 14 seasons between 1982 and 1995 and only 1 season below 2.00 in his career--Eckersley had an ERA under 2.00 3 times in 4 seasons. Smith may have been collecting saves in those seasons when his ERA was over 3.00, but what makes him better than John Wetteland? Smith had an 82% Save% compared to Wetteland's 84%. Smith's ERA was 3.03, Wetteland's 2.93. Smith's career WHIP was 1.256, Wetteland's 1.135 (with 3 seasons under 1.0 compared to none for Smith). Wetteland had a better K/9 (9.5 to 8.7), BB/9 (3.0 to 3.4), and K/BB (3.19 to 2.57). Both had 1 full season as a closer with a Save% of 90% or better (although Smith did have a partial season as a closer with a 94% rate in 18 chances). Wettlenad also had 7 straight seasons with an ERA under 3.00. Smith didn't even have that many full seasons with an ERA under 3.00 in his entire career. The biggest difference is that Smith stuck around long enough to add about 150 more Saves than Wetteland and Wetteland retired at 33 at got less than 1% of the vote his only year on the Hall ofFame ballot.

Yes, Smith passed Rollie Fingers fairly early in his career but he also pitched in an era when saves were emphasized more than they were when guys like Fingers and Gossage pitched. 300 saves was unheard of before Fingers. Fingers and Gossage both pitched earlier in games when needed. Fingers recorded more than 3 outs 509 times as a reliever but Smith only did it 362 times in over 100 more games as a reliever. Fingers also entered a game with the bases empty only 431 times compared to Smith's 699 times, Fingers entered a game with runners on base 476 times compared to Smith's 318. The workload they carried was so different and the emphasis on Saves as a statistic and the closer as a 9th-inning specialist was so much greater in Smith's era that it's not a simple comparison between the record Fingers set and the record Smith set.

DewieCox wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Lee Smith retired with the all-time saves record, but he really had that record simply because he stuck around long enough to compile the numbers. He was rarely the best closer in the league--there were usually several closers who were better than him. He had a very high ERA for a closer in several seasons and wasn't the dominant force that guys like Rivera and Eckersley are/were. Saves are a bit of a misleading stat because even a mediocre closer can have 35-40 saves if he has a big enough lead when he enters the game. I wouldn't rank Smith as highly as Eckersley, Gossage, Fingers, Rivera, or Hoffman.

I dunno if he was ever the best, but he broke the saves record after only 13 season. Maybe he compiled after, but he averaged 30 saves a season for 8 years and later 45 for 4 years around the time he broke the record. Only had a whip above 1.4 4x, 2 being his last 2 years.

You mention Eckersley, but he's notorious for gettin easy saves.

Wobbie · January 2012

Davidtrios wrote:

i think you're gonna see a lot of larkin type players get inducted bc they didnt cheat.

this is true.

thing is, we don't know that larkin didn't cheat.

just let bonds, clemens, etc. in....after all, there's no arguing they were the best. juiced hitters vs. juiced pitchers. what's the big deal?

81 · January 2012

the barry vote is going to be interesting....dude was a HOF even without the cream

Wobbie · January 2012

81 wrote:

the barry vote is going to be interesting....dude was a HOF even without the cream

Thank you.

he's doomed tho.....besides the 'roids, he pissed off most of the guys who vote.

DewieCox · January 2012

It's been said 10000x but unless you're gonna kick Ty Cobb, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Mike Schmidt, etc, etc, etc out of the HoF you without a doubt can't disqualify Bonds or Clemens and should probably give Mcgwire the nod.

F Me In The Brain · January 2012

pjhawks wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

i thought Larkin was borderline. kind of surprised he made it. I think if Barry Larkin is a Hall-of-Famer then Jimmy Rollins should be right there.

and Jack Morris should have made it. that guy was a top pitcher for a while and a big game pitcher. don't care about the numbers.

I don't get the hate on Larkin, he was one of the first shortstops that could hit, as someone else said. Prior to him, shortstops were of the Ozzie offensive numbers, after they are of the Jeter/Nomar/Arod.

Hilarious about Rollins. Larkin played for 19 seasons and had better numbers in his last year than Rollins has had in 3 years or so, granted Larkin has a few down years before that, but the point stands, you can't even compare the two.

CSN Philly does the comparison today. If he stays healthty Rollins will end up with better numbers in almost every category than Larkin except batting average. see below.

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/phillies- ... feedID=704

Could be....tough to keep it going for that many years. Also, Rollins seems to have injury concerns. If he plays 7-8 more years and keeps being productive he could be in the discussion.

BinauralJam · January 2012

Do you put Bernie Williams in? i do, but i'm a biased Yankees fan.

Monster Rain · January 2012

I think the first guy to admit using PEDs to get in the Hall will be A-Rod. Bonds would have been a Hall of Famer without the PEDs but he won't get in because too many voters will look at voting for him as giving his HR records legitimacy since he may have hit 500 HRs clean but never would have touched 73 in a season or 700+ in his career. There's also the problem of Bonds refusing to admit having used steroids even though there is a ton of evidence showing that he did thanks to his trial. It may seem dumb to some people, but public perception of Pettitte, Giambi, and A-Rod was much better than it was for McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, and Palmeiro because one group admitted to what they did and the other group refused to admit it despite failed tests or other evidence that they used the stuff. The deciding factor for A-Rod will be how many voters believe that he only used PEDs when he got to Texas and stopped in 2003 after the anonymous testing took place. If a voter thinks that the 3 seasons (or 2 depending on when he supposedly stopped in 2003) are the only seasons he used and he did everything else clean (his entire Seattle and NY careers with 2 clean MVPs and 2 clean HR crowns), then he might get in unless enough voters think that any use at all is enough to disqualify a player from consideration.

81 wrote:

the barry vote is going to be interesting....dude was a HOF even without the cream

DewieCox · January 2012

BinauralJam wrote:

Do you put Bernie Williams in? i do, but i'm a biased Yankees fan.

knee jerk reaction, no

Monster Rain · January 2012

I'm a huge Bernie Williams fan but I think he's just a little short of being in the Hall of Fame. He had a great 8-year run but he dropped off too much after 2002.

BinauralJam wrote:

Do you put Bernie Williams in? i do, but i'm a biased Yankees fan.

Jason P · January 2012

The PED era was the best era baseball ever had. :think:

davidtrios · January 2012

Jason P wrote:

The PED era was the best era baseball ever had. :think:

at first, i used to say fuck the PED era- damn cheaters.
but man, do i miss those majestic 500 foot bombs...

Baseball Hall Of Fame.....

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