Juice or not ALbert is not a HOF'er. Didn't even reach 400 hr's as an OF/DH and most importantly was very disliked by the media as well as teammates. He has zero shot of ever making it.
Nonsense...
According to the Hall Of Fame...
A player must play a minimum 10 years to qualify.....
Albert played 12...So he is ok there...
The DH is part of the game...And has been for what??? 40 years????
Over a 162 game schedule Albert Belle AVERAGED 40 HR'S and 130 RBI's.....
Lifetime batting average of .295
Show me a DH with better Numbers.....
There might be one....
But I cant think of one....
Garvey played every game for something like 8-9 years?? He SET the National League record for consecutive games played...Right???
Garvey's teams played in 5 World Series.....
Garvey's teams WON 1 World Series....Same as Larkin
if women were voting, garvey would be a lock
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I think you're thinking of his cousin. His cousin is the guy who got him the steroids or whatever illegal PED he took and he was banned from the locker room after A-Rod admitted using the stuff. He wasn't travelling with the Yankees, he was travelling with A-Rod. Given A-Rod's recent injury history, it seems like he's clean. If he was using HGH or something like that he would have had fewer injuries and healed from his injuries fast than he did. That doesn't mean it's a 100% certainty that he's clean but it does lend some credibility to that claim when you consider that he failed the 2003 test due to whatever he was taking and he hasn't failed one since. The only PED I know of that MLB hasn't tested for yet is HGH and that has been shown to shorten recovery time from injuries and surgeries. As I said, if enough voters believe that he was clean from 1996-2000 and 2003-now, then he'll probably get in. At the very least, he's got a better shot than Bonds.
The deciding factor for A-Rod will be how many voters believe that he only used PEDs when he got to Texas and stopped in 2003 after the anonymous testing took place. If a voter thinks that the 3 seasons (or 2 depending on when he supposedly stopped in 2003) are the only seasons he used and he did everything else clean (his entire Seattle and NY careers with 2 clean MVPs and 2 clean HR crowns), then he might get in unless enough voters think that any use at all is enough to disqualify a player from consideration.
his story is so full of holes. how come his banned trainer was on the road with the yankees for the entire 2007(?) season? :x
10 time all-star
4 time Gold Glove Winner...
6 seasons he had 200+ hits
7 seasons he hit .300 or better
Holds NL record for Consecutive games played???
Played in 5 World Series....
If Barry Larkin is a Hall Of Famer...
Why isnt Garvey????
Lulz.
Let's look at BA/OBA/SLG
Larkin: .295/.371/.444
Garvey: .294/.329/.446
So, Larkin was a much better offensive player than Garvey. Also, Larkin played a premium defensive position, and he played it incredibly well. Garvey played the least demanding position on the field. Garvey had a nice career, but he is not even close to being a Hall of Famer. Larkin's contributions in every facet of the game, as a hitter, fielder, and baserunner, make him a very worthy addition ton the HOF.
HUh??
You give me 3 offensive stats??Of which 2 of the stats are basically EVEN.... BA/SLG
And you say Larkin was MUCH better offensively??? HUH????
Garvey 272 HR's
Larkin 198
Garvey 1308 RBI
Larkin 960
Who was a better LEADER as far as a teamate??
Garvey played every game for something like 8-9 years?? He SET the National League record for consecutive games played...Right???
Larkin was injured every other week and was on the DL 14 TIMES in his career......
Garvey's teams played in 5 World Series.....
Garvey's teams WON 1 World Series....Same as Larkin
the disparity in OBP proves that larkin was far superior. maybe you missed that part. plus the fact that garvey played first and larkin played SS (a premium defensive position).
to compare these two players is incredibly shortsighted
just because a guy plays every night doesn't mean he deserves to be in the HOF. not sure what your point is by bringing up consecutive games.
the disparity in OBP proves that larkin was far superior. maybe you missed that part. plus the fact that garvey played first and larkin played SS (a premium defensive position).
to compare these two players is incredibly shortsighted
just because a guy plays every night doesn't mean he deserves to be in the HOF. not sure what your point is by bringing up consecutive games.
Garvey career WAR - 35.9
Larkin career WAR - 68.9
Game. Blouses
I love arguing/discussing Baseball Hall of Fame.....
Who belongs/Who doesnt.....
I never ever thought of Larkin as a Hall Of Fame type player...
Maybe you and others can prove me wrong....
But to ask what Garvey playing 1000+ consecutive games has to do with anything is kind of silly....Rght??
The object of Sports is to go out there night in and night out and perform your best..TO HELP THE TEAM....
Garvey led by example...
Larkin went on the DL 14 times....
Ill give you Larkin and his WAR
Ill give you Larkin and his OPB.....
But to say Garvey playing 1000+ consecutive games means nothing???
Thats just silly....
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
the disparity in OBP proves that larkin was far superior. maybe you missed that part. plus the fact that garvey played first and larkin played SS (a premium defensive position).
to compare these two players is incredibly shortsighted
just because a guy plays every night doesn't mean he deserves to be in the HOF. not sure what your point is by bringing up consecutive games.
Garvey career WAR - 35.9
Larkin career WAR - 68.9
Game. Blouses
I love arguing/discussing Baseball Hall of Fame.....
Who belongs/Who doesnt.....
I never ever thought of Larkin as a Hall Of Fame type player...
Maybe you and others can prove me wrong....
But to ask what Garvey playing 1000+ consecutive games has to do with anything is kind of silly....Rght??
The object of Sports is to go out there night in and night out and perform your best..TO HELP THE TEAM....
Garvey led by example...
Larkin went on the DL 14 times....
Ill give you Larkin and his WAR
Ill give you Larkin and his OPB.....
But to say Garvey playing 1000+ consecutive games means nothing???
Thats just silly....
he didn't say the consecutive games streak means nothing... that's nice, but i'd rather have a dude play 5% (or 10%) fewer of his team's games if it came with a 5% increase on OBP... HOF voting is changing, no doubt, as a result of new voters having grown up with the "newer" way of valuing statistics. unfortunately for garvey, OBP is the most important of the basic statistics.
i can't believe bagwell isn't in. i hated that guy. given the impressive 2013 crop, i wonder if voters are thinking a 2014 Biggio&Bagwell induction.
Alex Rodriguez has been linked to Angel Presinal, a baseball trainer who was banned from every single Major League Baseball clubhouse by the league in 2001.
Particularly damaging -- in combination with the recent contradictory news surrounding Sucart's purchase of "Boli," -- is the report that Presinal roomed with A-Rod's cousin, Yuri Sucart, during Rodriguez' 2007 MVP season, as the pair followed the Yankees slugger around the country.
According to the New York Daily News, several sources confirmed that Presinal has been "tight" with Rodriguez since he played for the Rangers (and admittedly, per his news conference, took banned substances to enhance his performance). But far more debilitating is the allegation that Presinal spent all of 2007 following Rodriguez around the country while staying in hotel rooms with Sucart.
"He was around Alex in 2007," the source said of Presinal. "Every hotel they went to, he stayed in the same room with Yuri. You would never see Alex with [Presinal]. They would meet in one of their rooms."
Of course, this news doesn't specifically indict A-Rod for using steroids during 2007, but it certainly implies some rather shady activity on his part. And, without a full and complete explanation of the alleged circumstances, there is plenty of room to jump to conclusions relating to A-Rod's possible use of steroids during the 2007 season.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Juice or not ALbert is not a HOF'er. Didn't even reach 400 hr's as an OF/DH and most importantly was very disliked by the media as well as teammates. He has zero shot of ever making it.
Nonsense...
According to the Hall Of Fame...
A player must play a minimum 10 years to qualify.....
Albert played 12...So he is ok there...
The DH is part of the game...And has been for what??? 40 years????
Over a 162 game schedule Albert Belle AVERAGED 40 HR'S and 130 RBI's.....
Lifetime batting average of .295
Show me a DH with better Numbers.....
There might be one....
But I cant think of one....
He doesn't have the overall body of work to make the HOF.
I wasn't aware of that story. It's an itneresting story at the very least. The Presinal story is interesting in itself. He was banned from clubhouses by MLB because a bag belonging to Juan Gonzalez was inspected by Canadian border authorities and found to contain steroids. Persinal said the bag was Gonzalez's (it was part of the team's luggage) and Gonzalez said it was Persinal's. There are many other players who continue to train with Persinal--some linked to steroids, some not. I don't think working with the guy automatically means a player is juicing. I'd say it's likely that he supplied steroids to the players who requested but it's doubtful that he's forcing players to take the stuff.
Alex Rodriguez has been linked to Angel Presinal, a baseball trainer who was banned from every single Major League Baseball clubhouse by the league in 2001.
Particularly damaging -- in combination with the recent contradictory news surrounding Sucart's purchase of "Boli," -- is the report that Presinal roomed with A-Rod's cousin, Yuri Sucart, during Rodriguez' 2007 MVP season, as the pair followed the Yankees slugger around the country.
According to the New York Daily News, several sources confirmed that Presinal has been "tight" with Rodriguez since he played for the Rangers (and admittedly, per his news conference, took banned substances to enhance his performance). But far more debilitating is the allegation that Presinal spent all of 2007 following Rodriguez around the country while staying in hotel rooms with Sucart.
"He was around Alex in 2007," the source said of Presinal. "Every hotel they went to, he stayed in the same room with Yuri. You would never see Alex with [Presinal]. They would meet in one of their rooms."
Of course, this news doesn't specifically indict A-Rod for using steroids during 2007, but it certainly implies some rather shady activity on his part. And, without a full and complete explanation of the alleged circumstances, there is plenty of room to jump to conclusions relating to A-Rod's possible use of steroids during the 2007 season.
Love reading threads like this. As many of you know, I have a special place in my heart for Cooperstown and all that it represents. It scares me that steroid users will most likely get in the next few years, leaving a black mark on the institution for future generations to form opinions. Larkin's probably a HOFer in my book, he's got the stats for the position. I also want to say that if Trevor Hoffman makes the HOF in the next few years, Lee Arthur Smith should be there too. There will also be a steep downside for the slew of guys trying to get in next year, if they dont get in in 2013, it may be several years before they can garner the 75% necessary, as we have Glavine, Maddux and Smolz eligeable in 2014 and 2015, who are all 1st ballot guys.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
Love reading threads like this. As many of you know, I have a special place in my heart for Cooperstown and all that it represents. It scares me that steroid users will most likely get in the next few years, leaving a black mark on the institution for future generations to form opinions. Larkin's probably a HOFer in my book, he's got the stats for the position. I also want to say that if Trevor Hoffman makes the HOF in the next few years, Lee Arthur Smith should be there too. There will also be a steep downside for the slew of guys trying to get in next year, if they dont get in in 2013, it may be several years before they can garner the 75% necessary, as we have Glavine, Maddux and Smolz eligeable in 2014 and 2015, who are all 1st ballot guys.
There are already dozens of "black marks" in there. You want all the guys that have admitted to cheating out?
Love reading threads like this. As many of you know, I have a special place in my heart for Cooperstown and all that it represents. It scares me that steroid users will most likely get in the next few years, leaving a black mark on the institution for future generations to form opinions. Larkin's probably a HOFer in my book, he's got the stats for the position. I also want to say that if Trevor Hoffman makes the HOF in the next few years, Lee Arthur Smith should be there too. There will also be a steep downside for the slew of guys trying to get in next year, if they dont get in in 2013, it may be several years before they can garner the 75% necessary, as we have Glavine, Maddux and Smolz eligeable in 2014 and 2015, who are all 1st ballot guys.
There are already dozens of "black marks" in there. You want all the guys that have admitted to cheating out?
yeah, I agree. People need to get over the steroid stuff. It's done and over with. There are plenty of people to blame for that era. The best players from that time should be unequivocally voted in.
Like I mentioned before...guys like palmeiro and sosa should not be in. Not because of juice, but because they weren't good enough. Bonds, clemens, mcgwire, bagwell, etc are no brainers IMO
I'd have to disagree with you about Smith getting in if Hoffman gets in. Hoffman not only has more saves than smith, but he had a career Save% of 89% compared to just 82% for Smith. Hoffman's success rate is just slightly behind Mariano Rivera's. Hoffman also was much more dominant than Smith. His career ERA was 2.87 while Smith's was 3.03. Hoffman's career WHIP was 1.058. Smith's was 1.256. Hoffman also had better numbers in K/9 (9.4 to 8.7) and BB/9 (2.5 to 3.4). Hoffman had 13 full seasons as a closer with an ERA under 3.00, 2 seasons under 2.00, and just 3 above 3.00. Smith had just 5 seasons with an ERA under 3.00, 1 season under 2.00, and 9 seasons above 3.00 (including 2 separate stretches of 4 seasons in a row over 3.00) and that's not counting his last 2 seasons when he wasn't a closer anymore. Smith blew 103 saves, Hoffman blew just 76 in 96 more chances. Hoffman allowed 20% of inherited runners to score. Smith allowed 28%.
Love reading threads like this. As many of you know, I have a special place in my heart for Cooperstown and all that it represents. It scares me that steroid users will most likely get in the next few years, leaving a black mark on the institution for future generations to form opinions. Larkin's probably a HOFer in my book, he's got the stats for the position. I also want to say that if Trevor Hoffman makes the HOF in the next few years, Lee Arthur Smith should be there too. There will also be a steep downside for the slew of guys trying to get in next year, if they dont get in in 2013, it may be several years before they can garner the 75% necessary, as we have Glavine, Maddux and Smolz eligeable in 2014 and 2015, who are all 1st ballot guys.
Well said monster rain about Hoffman>Smith. I stand corrected on that one.
Fixer, why would Big Mac be a "no brainer"? He's a career .263 hitter.
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
it's ridiculous that rose is not in.....and I don't even like the guy.
if they exclude the steroid guys....guys like bonds who were the best of their generation, steroids or not....you get a HOF of......barry larkins.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
it's ridiculous that rose is not in.....and I don't even like the guy.
if they exclude the steroid guys....guys like bonds who were the best of their generation, steroids or not....you get a HOF of......barry larkins.
Pete Rose should not be in and he should never be in. The guy broke the cardinal sin in baseball, a rule that is in place largely because a team threw the fucking world series. There is a reason there is a sign in every clubhouse that says "No Betting". He broke the rule that gets you kicked out of the game for life, and that's just the way it is. Not to mention, he ACCEPTED his punishment.
Well said monster rain about Hoffman>Smith. I stand corrected on that one.
Fixer, why would Big Mac be a "no brainer"? He's a career .263 hitter.
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
Personally, I hope McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Ramirez, Bonds, and Clemens never get in. I think only Bonds and Clemens have anything resembling a chance out of that list because both of them were outstanding before they ever touched steroids, HGH, or anything else like that. Clemens probably won't get in, though, because he wasn't pitching at a Hall of Fame level when he left Boston and he supposedly started juicing when he was in Toronto, which happens to be when he returned to his old Cy Young Award level so it can be argued that he would have had an average 2nd half of his career if he was clean and he wouldn't have reached the milestones that would get a clean player into the Hall.
McGwire never would have been a Hall of Fame player without steroids. He was hitting in the .230s, then hit .201 with 22 HRs, then comes back the next season to hit 42 HRs and raise his average from .201 to .268 then hits anywhere from .274 to .312 every season and averages about 56 HRs per season (including a strike-shorted season when he hit 39). He would have been a guy hitting .250 with 30 HRs in a good year without steroids and he wants people to believe that his sudden ability to average 56 HRs per season over 5 years had nothing to do with his improvement from 1991 when he sat out the last game just to avoid finishing the year with a batting average under .200?
Well said monster rain about Hoffman>Smith. I stand corrected on that one.
Fixer, why would Big Mac be a "no brainer"? He's a career .263 hitter.
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
it's ridiculous that rose is not in.....and I don't even like the guy.
if they exclude the steroid guys....guys like bonds who were the best of their generation, steroids or not....you get a HOF of......barry larkins.
Rose should be in 2 HOFs -- 1 for Baseball (does anyone think he ever bet against his team? Charlie Hustle?) and he should also be in the Ass Clown Hall of Fame. I am a Reds fan but even I laugh at him every time he is shown on TV/ interviewed, etc. What a complete whacko he is.
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
it's ridiculous that rose is not in.....and I don't even like the guy.
if they exclude the steroid guys....guys like bonds who were the best of their generation, steroids or not....you get a HOF of......barry larkins.
Rose should be in 2 HOFs -- 1 for Baseball (does anyone think he ever bet against his team? Charlie Hustle?) and he should also be in the Ass Clown Hall of Fame. I am a Reds fan but even I laugh at him every time he is shown on TV/ interviewed, etc. What a complete whacko he is.
I agree on both counts. Old age is not settling well with Pete Rose and I think he's so consumed with not being in baseball anymore it's drove him a little wacky. Too bad to. :(
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
it's ridiculous that rose is not in.....and I don't even like the guy.
if they exclude the steroid guys....guys like bonds who were the best of their generation, steroids or not....you get a HOF of......barry larkins.
Pete Rose should not be in and he should never be in. The guy broke the cardinal sin in baseball, a rule that is in place largely because a team threw the fucking world series. There is a reason there is a sign in every clubhouse that says "No Betting". He broke the rule that gets you kicked out of the game for life, and that's just the way it is. Not to mention, he ACCEPTED his punishment.
totally agree with cliff.
I think it would be awesome if they enshrine rose the year AFTER he dies. That piece of shit doesn't deserve the satisfaction of being inducted.
as for mcgwire...his career OPS is .982 (10th best all time). that is HOF worthy
I can tell you right now, the HOF vote is going to piss me off....the same guys who voted clemens 7 cys and barry 7 MVPs are now going to pull a big "we didn't know" :roll:
they say biggio is the best shot to get in....he should, he deserves it....but, from tim kurkjian:
"This is the enduring image of Craig Biggio: sitting at his locker after a game, his No. 7 Astros jersey covered with dirt in a pile next to him, the picture of exhaustion. His cut-off, sleeveless T-shirt displays a gun show seldom seen on a second baseman, the rest of him is a chaotic mass of eye black, pine tar, bruises and abrasions, a snapshot of his nightly commitment."
"gun show"? :think: my guess would be biggio used too. he had tons of teammates who have been implicated. he was just smarter than bonds, sosa and mcgwire in that he didn't parade around in sleeveless half shirts.
a lot of guys are borderline. a HOF w/o bonds, clemens and rose is a joke.
and I'm pretty pissed that no one voted for woody williams. dude was a beast
If I had known then what I know now...
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VIC 07
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Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Comments
good career no doubt. except for halloween.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
the disparity in OBP proves that larkin was far superior. maybe you missed that part. plus the fact that garvey played first and larkin played SS (a premium defensive position).
to compare these two players is incredibly shortsighted
just because a guy plays every night doesn't mean he deserves to be in the HOF. not sure what your point is by bringing up consecutive games.
Garvey career WAR - 35.9
Larkin career WAR - 68.9
Game. Blouses
Who belongs/Who doesnt.....
I never ever thought of Larkin as a Hall Of Fame type player...
Maybe you and others can prove me wrong....
But to ask what Garvey playing 1000+ consecutive games has to do with anything is kind of silly....Rght??
The object of Sports is to go out there night in and night out and perform your best..TO HELP THE TEAM....
Garvey led by example...
Larkin went on the DL 14 times....
Ill give you Larkin and his WAR
Ill give you Larkin and his OPB.....
But to say Garvey playing 1000+ consecutive games means nothing???
Thats just silly....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
he didn't say the consecutive games streak means nothing... that's nice, but i'd rather have a dude play 5% (or 10%) fewer of his team's games if it came with a 5% increase on OBP... HOF voting is changing, no doubt, as a result of new voters having grown up with the "newer" way of valuing statistics. unfortunately for garvey, OBP is the most important of the basic statistics.
i can't believe bagwell isn't in. i hated that guy. given the impressive 2013 crop, i wonder if voters are thinking a 2014 Biggio&Bagwell induction.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
maybe, but unless something comes out to put him in mcgwire-sosa-bonds territory, he'll be in the hall.
Not the juiceheads, and certainly not the millionares who are paid enough to continue
to strive for mediocrity.
What a shame.
nope. this guy....
Alex Rodriguez has been linked to Angel Presinal, a baseball trainer who was banned from every single Major League Baseball clubhouse by the league in 2001.
Particularly damaging -- in combination with the recent contradictory news surrounding Sucart's purchase of "Boli," -- is the report that Presinal roomed with A-Rod's cousin, Yuri Sucart, during Rodriguez' 2007 MVP season, as the pair followed the Yankees slugger around the country.
According to the New York Daily News, several sources confirmed that Presinal has been "tight" with Rodriguez since he played for the Rangers (and admittedly, per his news conference, took banned substances to enhance his performance). But far more debilitating is the allegation that Presinal spent all of 2007 following Rodriguez around the country while staying in hotel rooms with Sucart.
"He was around Alex in 2007," the source said of Presinal. "Every hotel they went to, he stayed in the same room with Yuri. You would never see Alex with [Presinal]. They would meet in one of their rooms."
Of course, this news doesn't specifically indict A-Rod for using steroids during 2007, but it certainly implies some rather shady activity on his part. And, without a full and complete explanation of the alleged circumstances, there is plenty of room to jump to conclusions relating to A-Rod's possible use of steroids during the 2007 season.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
He doesn't have the overall body of work to make the HOF.
There are already dozens of "black marks" in there. You want all the guys that have admitted to cheating out?
yeah, I agree. People need to get over the steroid stuff. It's done and over with. There are plenty of people to blame for that era. The best players from that time should be unequivocally voted in.
Like I mentioned before...guys like palmeiro and sosa should not be in. Not because of juice, but because they weren't good enough. Bonds, clemens, mcgwire, bagwell, etc are no brainers IMO
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Fixer, why would Big Mac be a "no brainer"? He's a career .263 hitter.
So if you guys are so cavalier about allowing steroid guys in the HOF, do the rules change now for Rose? When you guys say "best players of the era" doesn't that line become skewed by the use of PEDs? Where does the line get drawn?
if they exclude the steroid guys....guys like bonds who were the best of their generation, steroids or not....you get a HOF of......barry larkins.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Pete Rose should not be in and he should never be in. The guy broke the cardinal sin in baseball, a rule that is in place largely because a team threw the fucking world series. There is a reason there is a sign in every clubhouse that says "No Betting". He broke the rule that gets you kicked out of the game for life, and that's just the way it is. Not to mention, he ACCEPTED his punishment.
I think he should be in.
Barry Larkin is in whether they put in the juicers or not.
McGwire never would have been a Hall of Fame player without steroids. He was hitting in the .230s, then hit .201 with 22 HRs, then comes back the next season to hit 42 HRs and raise his average from .201 to .268 then hits anywhere from .274 to .312 every season and averages about 56 HRs per season (including a strike-shorted season when he hit 39). He would have been a guy hitting .250 with 30 HRs in a good year without steroids and he wants people to believe that his sudden ability to average 56 HRs per season over 5 years had nothing to do with his improvement from 1991 when he sat out the last game just to avoid finishing the year with a batting average under .200?
Rose should be in 2 HOFs -- 1 for Baseball (does anyone think he ever bet against his team? Charlie Hustle?) and he should also be in the Ass Clown Hall of Fame. I am a Reds fan but even I laugh at him every time he is shown on TV/ interviewed, etc. What a complete whacko he is.
I agree on both counts. Old age is not settling well with Pete Rose and I think he's so consumed with not being in baseball anymore it's drove him a little wacky. Too bad to. :(
totally agree with cliff.
I think it would be awesome if they enshrine rose the year AFTER he dies. That piece of shit doesn't deserve the satisfaction of being inducted.
as for mcgwire...his career OPS is .982 (10th best all time). that is HOF worthy
Craig Biggio 388 (68.2%) 1
Jack Morris 385 (67.7%) 14
Jeff Bagwell 339 (59.6%) 3
Mike Piazza 329 (57.8%) 1
Tim Raines 297 (52.2%) 6
Lee Smith 272 (47.8%) 11
Curt Schilling 221 (38.8%) 1
Roger Clemens 214 (37.6%) 1
Barry Bonds 206 (36.2%) 1
Edgar Martinez 204 (35.9%) 4
Alan Trammell 191 (33.6%) 12
Larry Walker 123 (21.6%) 3
Fred McGriff 118 (20.7%) 4
Dale Murphy 106 (18.6%) 15
Mark McGwire 96 (16.9%) 7
Don Mattingly 75 (13.2%) 13
Sammy Sosa 71 (12.5%) 1
Rafael Palmeiro 50 (8.8%) 3
Bernie Williams 19 (3.3%) 2
Kenny Lofton 18 (3.2%) 1
Sandy Alomar Jr. 16 (2.8%) 1
Julio Franco 6 (1.1%) 1
David Wells 5 (0.9%) 1
Steve Finley 4 (0.7%) 1
Shawn Green 2 (0.4%) 1
Aaron Sele 1 (0.2%) 1
Jeff Cirillo 0 (0%) 1
Royce Clayton 0 (0%) 1
Jeff Conine 0 (0%) 1
Roberto Hernandez 0 (0%) 1
Ryan Klesko 0 (0%) 1
Jose Mesa 0 (0%) 1
Reggie Sanders 0 (0%) 1
Mike Stanton 0 (0%) 1
Todd Walker 0 (0%) 1
Rondell White 0 (0%) 1
Woody Williams 0 (0%) 1
and I'm pretty pissed that no one voted for woody williams. dude was a beast
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14