OCCUPY WALL STREET - Spreading

polaris_x wrote:

it's sad ... some people on here will give the tea party folk credit for standing up to the gov't yet dismiss this movement ...

this movement has been a long time coming ... it has support from all aspects of society ... there are rich people, poor people, young, old, christians, atheists, black, white, etc ...

it shouldn't take much to recognize the game is rigged but some folks here are apologists till the end ... :(

i agree. it is the people who don't understand it that are dismissing it. it is so typical of america these days.

pjhawks wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

it's sad ... some people on here will give the tea party folk credit for standing up to the gov't yet dismiss this movement ...

this movement has been a long time coming ... it has support from all aspects of society ... there are rich people, poor people, young, old, christians, atheists, black, white, etc ...

it shouldn't take much to recognize the game is rigged but some folks here are apologists till the end ... :(

and the 99% could make a difference if they voted which almost all don't. don't vote don't bitch.

You really think that the protesters dont vote? They would protest but not vote?

pjhawks wrote:

Polaris I don't consider myself an apologist by any stretch of the imagination. i got very annoyed at this so-called movement this week when i saw a story on one of the news about a bunch of college graduates complaining that they had upwards of $90,000 of college loan debt and now they can't pay it and they have to live with mommy and daddy. uhhh excuse me? did you not know taking out loans that they were going to be come due at some point. wtf? and as bad as this generation thinks they have it i mean they aren't living on the streets (oh god they have to live with mommy and daddy the horror...), 95% i'm sure have $200+ phones with plans that are probably close to $100.00 a month, they aren't living without shoes or food - are their lives really so terrible?

and the 99% could make a difference if they voted which almost all don't. don't vote don't bitch.

this is the problem ... you and others are fixated on the apparent sense of entitlement ... i completely agree there is a narcissistic epidemic sweeping america ... but that is not what OWS is all about ... you guys are hung up on notions that are not really at the heart of the problem ...

the game is rigged ... the playing field is unfair ... and the people are being exploited ... it should be pretty obvious that certain segments of society are favoured ... this isn't about redistributing wealth in some egalitarian way ... it's about making the game fair for all ...

pjhawks wrote:

absolutely. have you seen the low turnouts in this country? just because you vote in one presidential election every 4 years doesn't make you a voter. there are local elections every year. how many people vote in every general election (i'll even give people a pass on primaries)? i'd be willing to bet very few, even of those protestors, are out voting every november. and often local elections are more important than a presidential one since those elected officials have way more direct affect on you and your community.

edit: of course those that don't vote will use the excuse that they don't like the candidates. anyone can run especially in local elections so not an excuse either.

you gotta remember that 99% is just a figure of speech here ... this is a small segment of the population actually doing the protesting ... like i mention in other topics - until people realize what the problem is ... you can't fix it ...

too many people aren't interested in learning why this movement is important and are just looking for ways they can dismiss it ...

pjhawks wrote:

i'd love hear what you and others are being denied in america. maybe it's not all equal but this is not 3rd world country where you are being denied basic necessities. feel free to enlighten me on what you don't have the opportunity for here in this country.

honestly ... go learn more about the movement ... this isn't a problem that can by explained in a few typed paragraphs ... i'd love to be able to sit here and explain it but i would essentially be gleaming info from all the other topics in this forum from bail outs, israeli occupation, war, global warming, tax cuts, etc ... this is about a corporatized gov't that serves the interest of the corporation and not the people ...

but just to throw you a bone so you don't think i'm just avoiding the question - i say this ... firstly, i am canadian but i spend a good time of my time in the states ... i just got back from 2 weeks in california and i'm in NYC at least 1 a month ... we get similar tv shows that you guys get up here but this is the big difference ...

down in the states - the biggest advertisers outside of coke and nike are pharmaceutical companies and PR firms ... i saw a commercial the other day saying the body can't tell the difference between high fructose corn syrup and real sugar paid for by the corn growers association ... a blatant lie ... how a special interest group like that can be allowed to broadcast lies that directly relate to public health is a microcosm of what is wrong ...

ajedigecko wrote:

fair playing field?
never going to happen......honestly, i do not want a fair playing field. i only appreciate the opportunity.

even the animal kingdom has this figured out. GO ANTS!

agreed.. capitalism isnt about fairness(though i would like a system that is about fairness and a level playing field).. its about the opportunity to compete... or as i read somewhere the pursuit of happiness, not guaranteed happiness. and we compete...to what level we compete is up to us... and how much of our soul were willing to sacrifice to do so.

polaris_x wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

i'd love hear what you and others are being denied in america. maybe it's not all equal but this is not 3rd world country where you are being denied basic necessities. feel free to enlighten me on what you don't have the opportunity for here in this country.

honestly ... go learn more about the movement ... this isn't a problem that can by explained in a few typed paragraphs ... i'd love to be able to sit here and explain it but i would essentially be gleaming info from all the other topics in this forum from bail outs, israeli occupation, war, global warming, tax cuts, etc ... this is about a corporatized gov't that serves the interest of the corporation and not the people ...

but just to throw you a bone so you don't think i'm just avoiding the question - i say this ... firstly, i am canadian but i spend a good time of my time in the states ... i just got back from 2 weeks in california and i'm in NYC at least 1 a month ... we get similar tv shows that you guys get up here but this is the big difference ...

down in the states - the biggest advertisers outside of coke and nike are pharmaceutical companies and PR firms ... i saw a commercial the other day saying the body can't tell the difference between high fructose corn syrup and real sugar paid for by the corn growers association ... a blatant lie ... how a special interest group like that can be allowed to broadcast lies that directly relate to public health is a microcosm of what is wrong ...

My issue is this:

You said corporatized government. If you feel that way, fair enough. But, if that's the case, why do these protest focus only on just the corporation as the evil entity.... or more specifically, Wall Street? Why is there such focus on the top 1% of income earners at these protests?

Most importantly:

Where's the focus on the other half of the word you used: corporatized government?

Government is not focused on at all at these protests. The way to change this system is to change government. If you're honest, you'd admit that a lot of these people are basically regurgitating what the Obama administration wants them to (the top 1% stuff is a direct line of his). Do you not see any irony in that? Why is he not being called out at these protests if the issue really is corporatized government? I mean, he is the President of the USA. Yet, you see no anti-Obama signs at these protests. Ironic.

pjhawks wrote:

...
and hey i got a 52-inch Hi-Def TV with 700 channels so i don't watch commercials because it's my choice not too. again not 3rd world country living here.
..

700???? :shock: holy crap. ive only got 5 and thats more than enough considering the quality of the shows available..

EdsonNascimento wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

fair playing field?
never going to happen......honestly, i do not want a fair playing field. i only appreciate the opportunity.

even the animal kingdom has this figured out. GO ANTS!

agreed.. capitalism isnt about fairness(though i would like a system that is about fairness and a level playing field).. its about the opportunity to compete... or as i read somewhere the pursuit of happiness, not guaranteed happiness. and we compete...to what level we compete is up to us... and how much of our soul were willing to sacrifice to do so.

Oh, but that's the thing - they don't want fairness. Is it fair that someone seleted a major that does not have the same financial prospects that costs the same as another major that does? Is it fair if the latter persons perhaps sacrificed some of her "fun" to do so but the former person pursued whatever it was they liked? Is it fair then that the sacrificer is now being asked to give money to the other (via loan breaks, tax hikes, whatever)?

That's not fair. Fairness is everyone has the chance to do what they'd like AND face the consequences of those decisions. Fairness is NOT getting to do whatever the hell it is you want to do and then turn around and say - well the game was rigged all along. You rich people only hire who you want to hire, and I'm not one of them. So, give me money.

"well the game was rigged all along"
I have to say, I think this is true.

EdsonNascimento wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

i'd love hear what you and others are being denied in america. maybe it's not all equal but this is not 3rd world country where you are being denied basic necessities. feel free to enlighten me on what you don't have the opportunity for here in this country.

i think it is pretty obvious that people are angry because they do not have jobs. also, they do not have things like health insurance, which should be an inalienable right. that is a start to beginning to understand the movement.

Everyone does have health insurance. Can we please stop that? If you go to the ER, it's covered. Either through Medicaid or indigent care (which is then covered by commercial insurance, in effect). If you want a well care visit, there are certain clinics that are available that do that sort of thing cheaply (or free).

And there are jobs. We have plenty of openings. Just have the right training (which is easy to get) and appropriate expectations of compensation. And best of all we give our employees their coverage for free!!!!

If these folks spent as much energy learning about what openings there are, and getting qualified, they'd have jobs by now (and yes, this might include moving to another state - the horror!).

they don't just want jobs they want jobs making a certain amount of money.