*** -- PROCESSING Your Philadelphia 76ers -- ***

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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    get on the phone rod. kanter or this biymobi dude would be gold:

    http://www.libertyballers.com/2011/5/17 ... econd-pick

    Shortly after the draft lottery concluded and the Minnesota Timberwolves were locked into the second overall pick, rumors of GM David Kahn willingness to trade the pick for "veteran help" surfaced. Here's what we know:

    This is a weak draft, especially at the top.

    The T'Wolves need a small forward.
    Kahn wants "veteran help".

    The Sixers desperately need a young big man to pair with Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner.

    The Sixers have a very good veteran small forward whose been the subject of trade rumors since the beginning of time, and the Wolves own a pick – which they're supposedly willing to shop – that could net the Sixers a much-needed big man prospect in Enes Kanter.

    With the uncertainty surrounding the CBA and salary cap, forget the details of a potential trade for now. Just know, Rod Thorn ain't doing his job if he doesn't at least call Kahn and the Wolves about a potential Iguodala-for-two swap. It makes too much sense. I doubt the Wolves will get a better offer. Iguodala and pick 16 is much sweeter than the hypothetical proposed here.


    Do it!

    KAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    iguadala for mota ellis huh? :think: :think:
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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    wow. big news day for the sixers. i don't know too much about this. i do know ed sniders couldn't care less for this team so i'm assuming this is good news...

    Sources: Sixers sales talks ongoingEmail Print Comments5 By Henry Abbott
    ESPN.com
    Archive
    Philadelphia 76ers owner Comcast-Spectacor is in talks to sell the team to a group led by New York-based leveraged buyout specialist Joshua Harris, according to sources.

    Negotiations are ongoing and a source with knowledge of the talks called a deal "imminent."

    Once the parties reach final agreement, it would become official only with approval of the league's Board of Governors.

    The Sixers were not known to have been for sale.

    Harris, 46, co-founded Apollo Global Management, which invests primarily in distressed properties, in 1990. In Forbes' 2011 billionaire rankings, Harris was reported to have a net worth of $1.5 billion.

    Other partners in the deal include private equity executive David Blitzer and former NBA player agent and Sacramento Kings executive Jason Levien.

    Blitzer moved from New York to London in 2002 to create the London-based European office of the Blackstone Group, one of the largest private investment groups in the world.

    As an agent, Levien represented players including Kevin Martin, Luol Deng and Udonis Haslem.

    Harris and Blitzer have Philadelphia ties, having graduated from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania within a few years of each other.

    Through his holding company Spectacor, Ed Snider has controlled the Sixers since 1996 -- the same year Spectacor merged with Comcast. Comcast-Spectacor also owns the NHL's Philadelphia Flyers, and the Wells Fargo Center where both teams play. The company would continue to own and operate the arena with the Sixers as a tenant, according to sources.

    The Harris group would become the sixth owners in the club's 65-year history, which is among the league's richest. Only the Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Lakers have won more regular season games, and the Sixers are one of just eight NBA teams with three or more championships.

    In recent years the team's performance has been somewhat lackluster, despite a significant payroll. This season, under coach Doug Collins, the Sixers, led by Andre Iguodala, Elton Brand and Thaddeus Young defied expectations by making the playoffs, where they fell to the Miami Heat in five games.

    The 78-year-old Snider has long been more closely associated with hockey than basketball. He founded the Flyers in 1966, is a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, and operates a Philadelphia-based youth hockey program that bears his name.
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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    iguadala for mota ellis huh? :think: :think:

    A buddy just texted me this earlier today. I love watching ellis play, but I'm not sure he's a guy I'd want on my team. He's one of those guys that always seems banged up too. Plus, that really gives them too many guards...unless they would have another move coming
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    guy can score...i dunno.


    john hollinger (insider) on ellis:

    + Super quick guard who loves to push tempo and finish in transition.

    + Defensive ball hawk but gambles too much and lacks size for two.

    + Mediocre outside shooter who often shoots contested Js early in shot clock.

    Ellis is talented enough that he may eventually become very valuable, but at the moment he is the league's most overrated player. He plays like he learned the game from watching Allen Iverson tapes, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Probably no player in the league took more ill-advised jump shots early in the shot clock, a particular problem in this case because Ellis isn't a good jump shooter -- he made only 33.8 percent of his 3s and 38.1 percent of his long 2s.

    Ellis finished with a gaudy scoring average because he played a lot of minutes on a fast-paced team, but he was 47th among shooting guards in both TS% and pure point rating. Basically, he dribbles around looking for a shot unless circumstances force him to pass.

    The most damning stat, however, is how much better the team played without him. Golden State outscored its opponents quite comfortably as long as Ellis wasn't around, and finished a whopping 11.4 points per 100 possessions better without Ellis -- giving him the single worst differential in basketball.
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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    guy can score...i dunno.


    john hollinger (insider) on ellis:

    + Super quick guard who loves to push tempo and finish in transition.

    + Defensive ball hawk but gambles too much and lacks size for two.

    + Mediocre outside shooter who often shoots contested Js early in shot clock.

    Ellis is talented enough that he may eventually become very valuable, but at the moment he is the league's most overrated player. He plays like he learned the game from watching Allen Iverson tapes, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Probably no player in the league took more ill-advised jump shots early in the shot clock, a particular problem in this case because Ellis isn't a good jump shooter -- he made only 33.8 percent of his 3s and 38.1 percent of his long 2s.

    Ellis finished with a gaudy scoring average because he played a lot of minutes on a fast-paced team, but he was 47th among shooting guards in both TS% and pure point rating. Basically, he dribbles around looking for a shot unless circumstances force him to pass.

    The most damning stat, however, is how much better the team played without him. Golden State outscored its opponents quite comfortably as long as Ellis wasn't around, and finished a whopping 11.4 points per 100 possessions better without Ellis -- giving him the single worst differential in basketball.

    I was gonna call him a poor man's AI. Fun to watch, but that doesn't equal wins.

    I think they can get more for iguodala. And turner needs a fair shot to play the 2
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    Monta Ellis is Lou Williams
    by Jordan Sams on Jun 6, 2011 11:00 PM PDT in Features

    Last summer I compared Monta Ellis and Lou Williams. How can a player who averaged 24 points per game last season (Ellis) be compared to 14-point-per-game Lou Williams you ask? Simple math, my friends.


    Check out this statistical comparison from Basketball Reference. When you look at the two players per games statistics Monta is +10 in points per game, +2 in assists, +1.5 in rebounds, +1.5 in steals, and +0.7 in free throws. The kicker, he's also +17 in minutes. When you scroll down to each players statistics 'per 36' minutes (meaning the stats they're projected to put up when each play an equal number of minutes), their numbers are eerily similar.



    Per 36

    Ellis - 21.5 points, 5 assists, 3.1 rebounds, 1.9 steals

    Williams - 21.2 points, 5.2 assists 3.1 rebounds, 1.0 steal

    The only significant advantage Monta had over Lou is his field goal percentage of 45, opposed to 41 for Lou. However; when free throws and threes are factored in, the players' true shooting percentages are identical. Lou got to the line 2.5 more times per 36, and shot a slightly better percentage (82% to 79%). He also made 0.3 more threes per 36, but shot a slightly lower percentage than Monta (36% to 35%).

    If you want to get all fancy and compare advanced stats, Lou and Monta both had a PER of 18 last season, an identical TRB% of 4.9, an AST% within 0.7 of each other and the same usage rate. Lou edged Monta big time in offensive rating, defensive rating, turnover rate and win shares per 48 minutes. Monta had advantages in steal percentage and effective field goal percentage (the statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal).

    (If you are unfamilar with these advanced statistics and want to know more visit the Basketball Reference glossary).

    Statistics imply that if Lou Williams received the same amount of playing time as Monta Ellis he would put up similar numbers, and vice versa. Obviously this isn't an exact science, because who knows how Lou would react if his opponents game-planned for him they way they game-plan for Monta. But I'd bet a ton of money that Lou would score 20+ points per game if he received Monta's minutes and shots, because they're matching ball-hogging combo guards.

    The average percentage of an NBA player's field goals made which are assisted by their teammates is 60%. Lou and Monta were both well below average at 42% and 41%, respectively, meaning they create their own shot more often than one of the teammates create a shot for them.

    Whether you're looking at each player's 'per 36' stats, advanced stats, and even more advanced stats like percentage of assisted field goals made Lou Williams and Monta Ellis compare perfectly. They were even drafted out of high school in the same draft (2005), both in the second round! They're essentially the same person, except one is a budding rap star, and the other crashes mo-peds. Oh, and the're both awful defensively.

    These similarities between two equal-age players make the Andre Iguodala for Monta Ellis trade rumor look idiotic from the Sixers perspective, because they already have a Monta Ellis clone as their sixth man, with half his salary. I understand the potential trade would save the Sixers 11 million over the next three seasons, but Ellis' contract ends a year after Elton Brand's, so it still prevents the from being major free agency players in 2013 (read here).

    I realize trading every Sixers fan's whipping boy for a "go-to scorer" who perrenially drops upwards of 20 points per game sounds like a great idea, but trust me, Monta is not the answer. He doesn't compliment the future backcourt of Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner, he doesn't fill any need that Lou Williams already fills, and he doesn't improve the salary cap situation long-term, only short-term, and only marginally.

    To be completely honest, I'd rather trade Iguodala for Hedo Turkoglu.
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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Last line of that article is tremendous.

    Just what the sixers need...another non-frontcourt guy that can't shoot.

    The sixers are so frustrating to root for.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    The Fixer wrote:
    Last line of that article is tremendous.

    Just what the sixers need...another non-frontcourt guy that can't shoot.

    The sixers are so frustrating to root for.

    that was last week's rumor. salary dump. we'd save about 22M and have all kinds of crazy cap space in a couple years. i thought you were interested in that kind of trade before? :?


    think i'd like to see them package iggy and one or two other pieces to move up and get one of the better big men in a couple weeks.

    gonna be interesting...especially if ownership actually changes.
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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    The Fixer wrote:
    Last line of that article is tremendous.

    Just what the sixers need...another non-frontcourt guy that can't shoot.

    The sixers are so frustrating to root for.

    that was last week's rumor. salary dump. we'd save about 22M and have all kinds of crazy cap space in a couple years. i thought you were interested in that kind of trade before? :?


    think i'd like to see them package iggy and one or two other pieces to move up and get one of the better big men in a couple weeks.

    gonna be interesting...especially if ownership actually changes.

    If the ellis trade is the first of multiple moves, then obviously that changes things. They need frontcourt help desperately.

    Like I said, I like watching ellis play, but he's not a guy I'd want on the team I root for.

    We'll see how things play out. This shit is all speculation at this point. I'm sure they will fuck it up like they always do
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    i'm surprised you like ellis considering how much you grew to hate lou williams...

    i like a player like that off the bench like with lou. instant offense. i'm not sure i want this guy hoisting up over 20 shots a game with this team. takes too much away from holiday and turner (turner would battle thad for small forward if this trade goes down). ellis' contract runs the same length as iguadala's too. i actually agree with that last sentence of that article i posted before too. i'd rather the turkelou (no idea how to spell that) deal than this one just for the flexibility they'd have in 2013.

    definitely gonna be interesting. i like the fact that thorn realizes iguadala needs to go though. him not showing up for his exit interview certainly rubbed thorn the wrong way. this ric bucher guy on espn is saying he'll definitely be traded by the end of the month. we shall see.

    and apparently thorn's got free reign to make deals while the sale goes through. so that's good.
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the difference between monta and lou is that monta can generate his own shot and get to the rim ... he is a volume shooter but i think that's reflective of the system he's been in for a few years ... having said that - it'll be tough to pair him up with jrue in the backcourt as they will be real small at the 1 and 2 ...

    as y'all know ... i'm a fan of igoudala ... he is definitely overpaid but i like his game and i think he is a great piece as long as there are other pieces around him to suit his talents ... i suspect he's gonna be one of those guys you don't miss until he's gone ... and you see the little things he did on the court ...
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    polaris_x wrote:
    the difference between monta and lou is that monta can generate his own shot and get to the rim ... he is a volume shooter but i think that's reflective of the system he's been in for a few years ... having said that - it'll be tough to pair him up with jrue in the backcourt as they will be real small at the 1 and 2 ...

    as y'all know ... i'm a fan of igoudala ... he is definitely overpaid but i like his game and i think he is a great piece as long as there are other pieces around him to suit his talents ... i suspect he's gonna be one of those guys you don't miss until he's gone ... and you see the little things he did on the court ...

    and with turner at the 3 and brand at 4, that's gotta make them the smallest team in the league i would imagine.

    i appreciate iguadala and what he brings. but a move will probably be best for him and the team long term though. just don't think monta ellis is what i want in return right now...
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    and with turner at the 3 and brand at 4, that's gotta make them the smallest team in the league i would imagine.

    i appreciate iguadala and what he brings. but a move will probably be best for him and the team long term though. just don't think monta ellis is what i want in return right now...

    i think the best you can do is a high draft pick and some pylon with a bad contract ... it's similar to when the raptors were trading vince ... at least you have a guy who WANTS to play there right now so you have some leverage in deals ...

    in any case - until they resolve the CBA ... i'd be surprised if anyone made a significant deal ...
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    polaris_x wrote:
    and with turner at the 3 and brand at 4, that's gotta make them the smallest team in the league i would imagine.

    i appreciate iguadala and what he brings. but a move will probably be best for him and the team long term though. just don't think monta ellis is what i want in return right now...

    i think the best you can do is a high draft pick and some pylon with a bad contract ... it's similar to when the raptors were trading vince ... at least you have a guy who WANTS to play there right now so you have some leverage in deals ...

    in any case - until they resolve the CBA ... i'd be surprised if anyone made a significant deal ...

    he wants out. didn't attend the exit interview. at this point i'd be surprised if a deal isn't made by the draft or end of month. thorn's actively shopping him.
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    he wants out. didn't attend the exit interview. at this point i'd be surprised if a deal isn't made by the draft or end of month. thorn's actively shopping him.

    didn't know that ... that hurts the leverage ...
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    polaris_x wrote:
    he wants out. didn't attend the exit interview. at this point i'd be surprised if a deal isn't made by the draft or end of month. thorn's actively shopping him.

    didn't know that ... that hurts the leverage ...

    true...but then you have teams like golden state who need to make a move before or at the draft.

    speaking of vince carter. it's the 10 year anniversary of the '01 sixers finals team. i was watching highlights of that game 7 where he almost hit that shot.......almost :mrgreen:
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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    i'm surprised you like ellis considering how much you grew to hate lou williams...

    I just said he's fun to watch. lou williams couldn't hold ellis' jock strap. they arent even close as far as talent...no contest.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    heard on the radio today that more NBA teams lost money last year than made money. :lol:

    this league could fold tomorrow and I wouldn't miss it.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    edited June 2011
    The Fixer wrote:
    i'm surprised you like ellis considering how much you grew to hate lou williams...

    I just said he's fun to watch. lou williams couldn't hold ellis' jock strap. they arent even close as far as talent...no contest.

    no doubt ellis is more talented. he's a full time starter. williams comes off the bench. their games are similiar though.
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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