***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

who is saying whoever is the alltime leader in rbi's must be the greatest hitter ever? ....i don't believe anyone is. :? :roll:

Many people here think RBIs are the end all be all it seems.

Know one thinks that it's the people here who completely discredit it that keeps this alive.

Fixer repeatedly says that "RBI's don't mean anything" and Cliffy says similar things. That, my friends, is hogwash.

The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Fixer repeatedly says that "RBI's don't mean anything" and Cliffy says similar things. That, my friends, is hogwash.

The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.

It's not that they don't mean anything, it is that they are a terrible evaluator of a players talent as so much relies on the team around them. I won't even use Howard, Arod, would not have 100+ RBI's a season if he played for the Pirates but that wouldn't make him any less of a hitter. How can you possibly argue with that?

They are similar but the order is so much better on the WAR, I think at least. Mays shouldn't be 9th on any list talking about the best players of all time.

The Fixer wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Fixer how has his defense been this year? To me he's never looked better,between scooping bad throws or making great plays. No errors at all this year is impressive especially for him.

1 - errors are not indicative of good/bad defense. he still has the range of a fire hydrant

2 - he hasn't thrown any grenades into LF yet, but he's busted out the triple pump, no throw, take it to the bag a few times. (that's one of his patented moves...along with the one armed helicopter flail)

Funny that no one mentions his AB in the 7th inning on friday night. 2nd and 3rd, no out. whiff. reminiscient of the last 3 playoff series he's played in ('09 WS and his stellar performance in 2 series last year).

best part of all this is that his contract hasn't even started yet

Or this many examples of just not liking a player imo. Credit is never given and that's my problem with it. He's been a rock at 1st base this year,making great diving plays showing great range and not making bone headed plays. Yet a double pump is remembered,u just can't win with certain people period.

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Fixer repeatedly says that "RBI's don't mean anything" and Cliffy says similar things. That, my friends, is hogwash.

The RBI list & WAR list are pretty similar if you go into top 20 or so.

It's not that they don't mean anything, it is that they are a terrible evaluator of a players talent as so much relies on the team around them. I won't even use Howard, Arod, would not have 100+ RBI's a season if he played for the Pirates but that wouldn't make him any less of a hitter. How can you possibly argue with that?

They are similar but the order is so much better on the WAR, I think at least. Mays shouldn't be 9th on any list talking about the best players of all time.

Because certain players just produce look at Werth he just got a huge contract. Now can u tell me how many 100rbi's season he had??? ZERO and he batted in a lineup that was damn good. If Howards contract is the worst ever then where's Werth's rank? Werth's contract is far worse then Howards,at least Howards good for a monster year ever time.

Then ask Jeags,pjhawks,jp,dropthe leash,johnny anyone about his def this year. I guarantee NO one will have a bad thing to say about it this year.

The Juggler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

who is saying whoever is the alltime leader in rbi's must be the greatest hitter ever? ....i don't believe anyone is. :? :roll:

Many people here think RBIs are the end all be all it seems.

i don't think that's the case at all. i see some who give it too much credence and some who give it no credence at all. as is often the case, the truch lies right in the middle.

this is the exact point isn't it? when a clown says that the Phillies are better off with Ross Gload at 1st base over Ryan Howard and repeatedly bashes him of course we have to defend him. I don't need stats to tell me that Ryan Howard has been one hell of a player for this franchise. to argue otherwise and to bring up every time he strikes out is just overkill and wip-ish and annoying as hell. to base evaluations on a stat like WAR is stupid. not everything is equal. having a great game in a meaningless august game for a lousy team sure as hell isn't as important as one big hit in a big game for a team fighing for a playoff spot. i'll take ryan howards contribrution to arguably the greatest team run in Philly sports history and fucking love it regardless of what his freakin WAR is.

Cliffy6745 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Then ask Jeags,pjhawks,jp,dropthe leash,johnny anyone about his def this year. I guarantee NO one will have a bad thing to say about it this year.

Thats fine, I am not even arguing about Howard here, I am arguing about RBIs. I used Arod and not Howard to avoid getting into Howard talk.

yes u did :shock:

jamminpearls wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Then ask Jeags,pjhawks,jp,dropthe leash,johnny anyone about his def this year. I guarantee NO one will have a bad thing to say about it this year.

Thats fine, I am not even arguing about Howard here, I am arguing about RBIs. I used Arod and not Howard to avoid getting into Howard talk.

yes u did :shock:

My entire argument today is about RBI's in general.

pjhawks wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Then ask Jeags,pjhawks,jp,dropthe leash,johnny anyone about his def this year. I guarantee NO one will have a bad thing to say about it this year.

Thats fine, I am not even arguing about Howard here, I am arguing about RBIs. I used Arod and not Howard to avoid getting into Howard talk.

look no one is saying RBIs is the most important stat, but to insinuate that anyone can knock on all those runs in the same sitautions as ARod and Howard does it absurd. all you need to do is look at the Phillies this year and how before a week ago our 3rd hitter (then jimmy rollins, since changed) had a whopping 5 RBIs with one of the leading on-base percentage players in front of him. if it was so damn easy to do then anyone could hit 3rd or 4th.

Of course not everyone is made to be a cleanup hitter and drive people in but there are plenty of players in the league that would put up similar RBI numbers if they had the Yanks or Phillies lineup. Plenty.