Religious Beliefs

MrAbraham wrote:

catefrances wrote:

hmm the afterlife.. could it be a delusion happening in an extrememly traumatic situation for our brain and mind? could it be under the extreme stress of trauma our minds do go someplace else trying to return to the here and now? call that an afterlife if you like. i shant.



imo truth is subjective and the truth that you seek is not the truth i seek... nor is it a truth i need.

In science we often see chemical imbalances resulting in a state where the patient/person has the illusion of an after life or a feeling of whatever else. Or is it really just an illusion?

But truth is not really subjective, it's important to not confuse ultimate truth with point of view or some sort of opinion, fair? If something happens, say five people see it, and all five have a different view of it, which one is correct about what happened? Of course it would depend on many factors, but it would still be one truth.

Curious, don't you seek truth? In anything, in everything? As everything has a truth. Now I know you care about the truth, as you no doubt don't want anyone to lie to you. right? Of course We may not want to hear the truth.

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truth is subjective in that the truth one person seeks isnt necessarily the truth another seeks. many people on this board seek truth through spirituality or religion... i dont. so their truth isnt my truth.


it is known the worst evidence for something is eye witness accounts. thats why evidence is relied upon that can be proven through froensic science.

redrock wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

e, it's important to not confuse ultimate truth with point of view or some sort of opinion, fair?

Ultimate truth? From who's point of view? The theist? The atheist? The truly religious person? Anyone in between? There is no 'common' ultimate truth.

amen sister amen.

redrock wrote:

catefrances wrote:

hmm the afterlife.. could it be a delusion happening in an extrememly traumatic situation for our brain and mind? could it be under the extreme stress of trauma our minds do go someplace else trying to return to the here and now? call that an afterlife if you like. i shant. .

The afterlife is a concept which comforts people during their life, helps them deal with any trauma perhaps? Such as loss, a shit life ('it can't be that's all I'm here for - there must be something after'...), etc. Some think there must be another reason we are on this planet, that this life is only a beginning, waiting for something 'bigger'.

As I said before, god/religion/religious concept (which 'cross-over' with god without being organised religion) are a crutch for those who need it. It creates an illusion, a power taken out of our hands and put in 'higher' hands when necessary - shifted responsibility. Or, I guess a way to explain/justify what we consider the 'unexplainable' - 'it's god's will...' It's easier to say god this or god that in certain circumstances or certain times of our life as opposed to I this or I that.... My thoughts.

i think for a whole mass of people the thought that 'this' is all there is, is just too much of nothing, you know? its like theyre living a less than 'perfect' existence and they think surely theres more than this... surely 'this' cant be all my life will amount to. a reward for a shitty life lived graciously.. or perhaps not so graciously. or maybe they just expect more.

redrock wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

e, it's important to not confuse ultimate truth with point of view or some sort of opinion, fair?

Ultimate truth? From who's point of view? The theist? The atheist? The truly religious person? Anyone in between? There is no 'common' ultimate truth.

Let's say this, killing someone, pick up a gun and go shoot some random person, the truth is what? A thing we should not do, why?

Let's say, no one else would see it, know about it, we just for whatever reason want to feel what it's like to kill soneone. Why is it 'wrong' to do so? Is it wrong? Basic rule we know, don't hurt others. We know we all will die one day, this is an ultimate truth. As we know this life is transitory. That is the truth.

It's not a point of view. correct?

catefrances wrote:

Ultimate truth? From who's point of view? The theist? The atheist? The truly religious person? Anyone in between? There is no 'common' ultimate truth.

Let's say this, killing someone, pick up a gun and go shoot some random person, the truth is what? A thing we should not do, why?

Let's say, no one else would see it, know about it, we just for whatever reason want to feel what it's like to kill soneone. Why is it 'wrong' to do so? Is it wrong? Basic rule we know, don't hurt others. We know we all will die one day, this is an ultimate truth. As we know this life is transitory. That is the truth.

It's not a point of view. correct?[/quote]

well i dunno.. shooting a man in reno just to see him die seems to have a truth to it. its not mired by any motivation other than to know what its like. and once you know what its like.. theres your truth.[/quote]

Yes a desire to want to know what it's like. Yes. Like I said everything has a truth. Then again, we should forget about what it 'seems', just deal with what adds up.

Now, is it a good thing to do? Of course 'good', can be relative, but not when it comes to life and death, as this is all that their is. right? When we die, nothing else is around, when we die we die.

So you would agree that it is wrong to just go and kill someone,

catefrances wrote:

redrock wrote:

catefrances wrote:

hmm the afterlife.. could it be a delusion happening in an extrememly traumatic situation for our brain and mind? could it be under the extreme stress of trauma our minds do go someplace else trying to return to the here and now? call that an afterlife if you like. i shant. .

The afterlife is a concept which comforts people during their life, helps them deal with any trauma perhaps? Such as loss, a shit life ('it can't be that's all I'm here for - there must be something after'...), etc. Some think there must be another reason we are on this planet, that this life is only a beginning, waiting for something 'bigger'.

As I said before, god/religion/religious concept (which 'cross-over' with god without being organised religion) are a crutch for those who need it. It creates an illusion, a power taken out of our hands and put in 'higher' hands when necessary - shifted responsibility. Or, I guess a way to explain/justify what we consider the 'unexplainable' - 'it's god's will...' It's easier to say god this or god that in certain circumstances or certain times of our life as opposed to I this or I that.... My thoughts.

i think for a whole mass of people the thought that 'this' is all there is, is just too much of nothing, you know? its like theyre living a less than 'perfect' existence and they think surely theres more than this... surely 'this' cant be all my life will amount to. a reward for a shitty life lived graciously.. or perhaps not so graciously. or maybe they just expect more.

We need to take into account supersymmetry and M theory. Before we come to the conclusion that 'this' is all that their is. Which you must agree with?

redrock wrote:

catefrances wrote:

hmm the afterlife.. could it be a delusion happening in an extrememly traumatic situation for our brain and mind? could it be under the extreme stress of trauma our minds do go someplace else trying to return to the here and now? call that an afterlife if you like. i shant. .

The afterlife is a concept which comforts people during their life, helps them deal with any trauma perhaps? Such as loss, a shit life ('it can't be that's all I'm here for - there must be something after'...), etc. Some think there must be another reason we are on this planet, that this life is only a beginning, waiting for something 'bigger'.

As I said before, god/religion/religious concept (which 'cross-over' with god without being organised religion) are a crutch for those who need it. It creates an illusion, a power taken out of our hands and put in 'higher' hands when necessary - shifted responsibility. Or, I guess a way to explain/justify what we consider the 'unexplainable' - 'it's god's will...' It's easier to say god this or god that in certain circumstances or certain times of our life as opposed to I this or I that.... My thoughts.

Do you feel this way about ALL religious/spiritual beliefs?

I guess I just think any attempt to truly understand or explain other people's relationship with "God" is futile. Personally, I believe in an afterlife for the same reason I believe in aliens: because it just seems improbable to me that this is all there is - not because I need to have something to comfort me during difficult times.

MrAbraham wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i think for a whole mass of people the thought that 'this' is all there is, is just too much of nothing, you know? its like theyre living a less than 'perfect' existence and they think surely theres more than this... surely 'this' cant be all my life will amount to. a reward for a shitty life lived graciously.. or perhaps not so graciously. or maybe they just expect more.

We need to take into account supersymmetry and M theory. Before we come to the conclusion that 'this' is all that their is. Which you must agree with?

take into account a theory that relies on me believing in string theory as a truth before i could even entertain its existence?

so what do you think.. do you think i must agree?

MrAbraham wrote:

catefrances wrote:

what id the person you kill is, unbeknownst to you, a serial killer.. does that make what you did any better? what if no one knew he was a serial killer? only he knew.. but his secret died with him. was killing him wrong?

Well again we must bring physics into the equation, as intention and positive energy related. What was my intention for the killing? simply to satisfy my ego? take a life just to know what it's like?

A simple coincidence? The day I shoot someone just to know what it's like, happens to be a killer that I killed.

We go back down to, a simple truth, killing is wrong.

Also what brought the killer in that spot the moment I run up with a gun? A set of choices perhaps he made that had led him to where I will be? Brings back to the balance of life, the simple algorithm which I spoke about in previous posts. Which nature has. The balance.

id say it was you who made the set of choices that brought you into contact with him, not the other way around. YOU were the one who woke up that morning and said wow i wonder what its like to kill someone, so YOU set about to make that happen. YOU are the determinant here, not the man you killed. yesterday you wouldve walked right by him, maybe even tipped your hat and said g'day. you might even change your usual behaviour so you find yourself in a part of town youre not usually associated with.. itd be a bitch to kill someone you knew, even just in passing. in this little scenario id go so far to say that you were nudging that so called balance of life out of whack.

catefrances wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

catefrances wrote:

what id the person you kill is, unbeknownst to you, a serial killer.. does that make what you did any better? what if no one knew he was a serial killer? only he knew.. but his secret died with him. was killing him wrong?

Well again we must bring physics into the equation, as intention and positive energy related. What was my intention for the killing? simply to satisfy my ego? take a life just to know what it's like?

A simple coincidence? The day I shoot someone just to know what it's like, happens to be a killer that I killed.

We go back down to, a simple truth, killing is wrong.

Also what brought the killer in that spot the moment I run up with a gun? A set of choices perhaps he made that had led him to where I will be? Brings back to the balance of life, the simple algorithm which I spoke about in previous posts. Which nature has. The balance.

id say it was you who made the set of choices that brought you into contact with him, not the other way around. YOU were the one who woke up that morning and said wow i wonder what its like to kill someone, so YOU set about to make that happen. YOU are the determinant here, not the man you killed. yesterday you wouldve walked right by him, maybe even tipped your hat and said g'day. you might even change your usual behaviour so you find yourself in a part of town youre not usually associated with.. itd be a bitch to kill someone you knew, even just in passing. in this little scenario id go so far to say that you were nudging that so called balance of life out of whack.

So is killing wrong? Does it set the balance of life out of whack? Also, what choices did the killer make? Did he just kill someone a few mins before I did, if he is setting off a negative energy, is my negative energy hitting against his? Causing me to shoot him out of many other potentials?

Was it truly random that I picked a killer to kill? Taking into account what we know about positive and negative forces.