Ed on religion

LeatherMandi wrote:

might want to consider the location

Ive been to numerous shows.. never have i heard nonsense like that. In fact the majority of people are usually pretty cool.

I think its also because its such a small place and a quiet show. At a full PJ show you just don't notice that nearly as much... whereas at the Wiltern you could hear everything people were yelling, saying, etc, etc...

Nonethesless after having ready earlier reviews of crowds I tried to make an effort to just ignore and not get annoyed by it and that worked well. A few people were tough to ignore around us with yelling, flailing around, but nothing too bad.

EvilRabbit wrote:

There's also the Dawkins argument...

If you're too open-minded your brain might fall out.

Darryl?

otis mcfluster wrote:

So at the LA 1 show, Ed was talking about this commercial he saw for a Christian Rock album, and then went on to criticize through song how they all look the same, act the same, can't think for themselves and are all sheep. Which I thought was somewhat comical.

But in retrospect it was certainly more ironic than anything.

The fact that Ed was pontificating this to the obnoxious chick to my right who kept yelling how much she loves and worships Ed, how sexy he was, telling her friend about the time she touched him, laughing at jokes that weren't really jokes, woohoo-ing and clapping things that didn't warrant applause, and shouting fuck yeah! before Ed was halfway through a sentence.

And then there was the couple to my left, overly consumed with what Ed was drinking so that they could start drinking it, so happy to see "his beard and long hair back", and wondering what kind of jeans he was wearing.

I guess it is just funny to mock one group of mindless followers to a live group of mindless followers hanging on his every word--the only difference is the messenger.

I’m always a little amazed at how stupid the majority of Pearl Jam crowds are--kind of embarrassing to be honest.

Good post.

I didn't think a lot of what Ed said at SC and Berkeley was particularly funny, but a lot of people around me and here thought so. I think some actually did think it was funny, which is cool, but others I think Ed could say anything and they would laugh at it.

I also didn't think the Santa Cruz song was anything great. It sounded like what he said it was, a song he wrote that day instead of going surfing. Just a bland song where I would have rather heard another cover or another Pearl Jam song.

I ran into some people at both shows that were cringe-worthy. When I walked through the crowd at Santa Cruz there were some cool people, but there was also a large frat party contigent, one of which pissed in the sink on the bathroom. It just surprises me that people who are seeing an Ed solo show in 2008 would be that immature. It's not 1992 anymore.

At Berkeley, I ran into some "my love and knowledge of Pearl Jam exceeds yours" people who are funny and sad at the same time.

But I also ran into Corduroyboy, his wife, and sold my ticket to Ray (can't remember his message pit name) at Berkeley who were very cool and made the concert more enjoyable.

guitar_davey wrote:

Isn't the point more that if you hold so tightly to any belief that you're unwilling to even consider another point of view, THEN you're a closed-minded sheep?

Absolutely. I find that it's human nature that we all relate to those that are similar to us. And then ridicule others that are not. Just as Ed did. To me, things such as racism, gender inequality, etc etc are all just symptoms of this.

This is why I find it funny that Ed would call others close minded. He's closed minded on many things he disagrees with. Just as all humans are.

EvilRabbit wrote:

Not at all. Atheists can be idiots too. But the foundation of organized religion was built on poor people being told what to do or how to think.

Although the size of each group is obviously very different, I would wager a larger percentage of atheists are far more open-minded than believers.

The myth that atheists are close-minded because they don't believe in a sky-God is exactly that... a myth. After all, are you close minded because you don't believe in all the other Gods?

" I would wager a larger percentage of atheists are far more open-minded than believers"

I would take that wager anyday. Again..imo, there's really no such thing as being open minded. You either agree with something or you don't. Some people are just assholes about it.

Drew263 wrote:

I would take that wager anyday. Again..imo, there's really no such thing as being open minded. You either agree with something or you don't. Some people are just assholes about it.

That's exactly the point - the only people that are open-minded are people that have never been introduced to something.

For example, if I've gone to say White Castle (which is actually a good example)... once I eat it I'll have an opinion on if its good or not. That's from experience. But then there's all these idiots who won't go because someone says its bad... never tried it though. That's truly being closed-minded. But I am too because from my experience I like it, so you telling me its bad isnt going to make my brain dislike the sweet, sweet taste of it.

And as stupid as it sounds, you could translate that exactly to politics/religion. Once you believe something its going to take something absolutely huge to change it. I guess maybe if you're pro-life and hear a heartbreaking story about someone who needed an abortion, or if you're pro-choice and hear what happens with a partial-term abortion... but my guess is 98% of people won't change their opinions anyway unless they personally go through something like that...

Crazy Breed wrote:

open minded to what? hedonism?

Uh, let's see... Homosexuality, eating shellfish, contraception, separation of church and state, abortion, evolution, foreskin, it's rather a long list...

Feel free to list a few things that atheists are close-minded about.

This discussion reminds me of a song...

"I'm a thief, I'm a liar,
There's my church, I sing in the choir."

EvilRabbit wrote:

Uh, let's see... Homosexuality, eating shellfish, contraception, separation of church and state, abortion, evolution, foreskin, it's rather a long list...

Feel free to list a few things that atheists are close-minded about.

This discussion reminds me of a song...

"I'm a thief, I'm a liar,
There's my church, I sing in the choir."

Just because religious people find homosexuality appaling, does not make them close-minded. They could say you are close-minded because you accept it as normal, for example. Same with abortion or any other things. Because I may think it's wrong to wrench a human life from someone's womb, does not mean I am close-minded.

To also add, one could easily argue that our society has fallen and is seriously eroded because of these so-called open-minded individuals. Just step inside a school now and see how bad we have become. Complete chaos. Nobody has any self-control or respect for anyone but themselves. It's really disgusting and I would argue it is because of the lack of family structure, religion, and "open-mindedness" and everyone unwilling to judge. In 30 years, I cannot see our country being viable because of the lack of a moral center. And I am sure this is where the philosopher comment will say, "Who can define morality. Who's to say what is moral to you is moral to the next guy," etc. We live in a world of right and wrong; good and evil. Face it.

nathanastin wrote:

To also add, one could easily argue that our society has fallen and is seriously eroded because of these so-called open-minded individuals. Just step inside a school now and see how bad we have become. Complete chaos. Nobody has any self-control or respect for anyone but themselves. It's really disgusting and I would argue it is because of the lack of family structure, religion, and "open-mindedness" and everyone unwilling to judge. In 30 years, I cannot see our country being viable because of the lack of a moral center. And I am sure this is where the philosopher comment will say, "Who can define morality. Who's to say what is moral to you is moral to the next guy," etc. We live in a world of right and wrong; good and evil. Face it.

The more secular and progressive a society, the less crime, better education etc. (see Denmark, Holland, etc.)

In the U.S., the states with the highest divorce rate, most violent crime, poorest education, are also the most religious.

And no, I didn't make all that up. Check out the Pew studies.

As for morality, it's innate. You are born with a basic sense of what is right and what is wrong. If you don't believe me, read your Bible. Jesus tells the story of the Good Samaritan. Now that guy couldn't possibly have been a Christian, right? He was a good person all on his own and he didn't need myths to teach him the difference between right and wrong.