I would take that wager anyday. Again..imo, there's really no such thing as being open minded. You either agree with something or you don't. Some people are just assholes about it.
That's exactly the point - the only people that are open-minded are people that have never been introduced to something.
For example, if I've gone to say White Castle (which is actually a good example)... once I eat it I'll have an opinion on if its good or not. That's from experience. But then there's all these idiots who won't go because someone says its bad... never tried it though. That's truly being closed-minded. But I am too because from my experience I like it, so you telling me its bad isnt going to make my brain dislike the sweet, sweet taste of it.
And as stupid as it sounds, you could translate that exactly to politics/religion. Once you believe something its going to take something absolutely huge to change it. I guess maybe if you're pro-life and hear a heartbreaking story about someone who needed an abortion, or if you're pro-choice and hear what happens with a partial-term abortion... but my guess is 98% of people won't change their opinions anyway unless they personally go through something like that...
I would take that wager anyday. Again..imo, there's really no such thing as being open minded. You either agree with something or you don't. Some people are just assholes about it.
i think it really boils down to how accepting of the truth you are.so many people are living in denial.denial about the state of the world & denial about the state of our country,our fascist,tyrannical police state quickly sliding down the slippery slop.
"denial is the refuge of the coward"
people use it to cast an illusion on their lives and delude themselves into thinking everything is going to be ok. I'll just stick my head in the sand and hope it all goes away.
Uh, let's see... Homosexuality, eating shellfish, contraception, separation of church and state, abortion, evolution, foreskin, it's rather a long list...
Feel free to list a few things that atheists are close-minded about.
This discussion reminds me of a song...
"I'm a thief, I'm a liar,
There's my church, I sing in the choir."
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Uh, let's see... Homosexuality, eating shellfish, contraception, separation of church and state, abortion, evolution, foreskin, it's rather a long list...
Feel free to list a few things that atheists are close-minded about.
This discussion reminds me of a song...
"I'm a thief, I'm a liar,
There's my church, I sing in the choir."
Are you really an aetheist? Man that is hip!
"I don't believe in PJ fans but I believe there is something, not too sure what." - Thoughts_Arrive
Uh, let's see... Homosexuality, eating shellfish, contraception, separation of church and state, abortion, evolution, foreskin, it's rather a long list...
Feel free to list a few things that atheists are close-minded about.
This discussion reminds me of a song...
"I'm a thief, I'm a liar,
There's my church, I sing in the choir."
Just because religious people find homosexuality appaling, does not make them close-minded. They could say you are close-minded because you accept it as normal, for example. Same with abortion or any other things. Because I may think it's wrong to wrench a human life from someone's womb, does not mean I am close-minded.
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
I think Ed's reaction on Storytellers to being asked what did he think of people who disagreed with him was the only worthwhile insight on that show.In case you did't see it,he said 'Fuck them'. Having said that though he was kind of a good sport in 2003( I think) in New York(I think) when the fans started chanting USA after they played Bushleaguer but I imagine if it had have happened enough times he would've just got ticked off and stopped playing it.
Speaking of mindless sheep,I bet Ten wouldn't have gone 12 times platinum without all the mindlessness of the grunge trend.
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
To also add, one could easily argue that our society has fallen and is seriously eroded because of these so-called open-minded individuals. Just step inside a school now and see how bad we have become. Complete chaos. Nobody has any self-control or respect for anyone but themselves. It's really disgusting and I would argue it is because of the lack of family structure, religion, and "open-mindedness" and everyone unwilling to judge. In 30 years, I cannot see our country being viable because of the lack of a moral center. And I am sure this is where the philosopher comment will say, "Who can define morality. Who's to say what is moral to you is moral to the next guy," etc. We live in a world of right and wrong; good and evil. Face it.
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
"In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.
Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you!"
- George Carlin
To also add, one could easily argue that our society has fallen and is seriously eroded because of these so-called open-minded individuals. Just step inside a school now and see how bad we have become. Complete chaos. Nobody has any self-control or respect for anyone but themselves. It's really disgusting and I would argue it is because of the lack of family structure, religion, and "open-mindedness" and everyone unwilling to judge. In 30 years, I cannot see our country being viable because of the lack of a moral center. And I am sure this is where the philosopher comment will say, "Who can define morality. Who's to say what is moral to you is moral to the next guy," etc. We live in a world of right and wrong; good and evil. Face it.
The more secular and progressive a society, the less crime, better education etc. (see Denmark, Holland, etc.)
In the U.S., the states with the highest divorce rate, most violent crime, poorest education, are also the most religious.
And no, I didn't make all that up. Check out the Pew studies.
As for morality, it's innate. You are born with a basic sense of what is right and what is wrong. If you don't believe me, read your Bible. Jesus tells the story of the Good Samaritan. Now that guy couldn't possibly have been a Christian, right? He was a good person all on his own and he didn't need myths to teach him the difference between right and wrong.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
every one is an individual and you can't group people together solely based on religion or favorite band. I consider myself a Christian but most Christians don't really even know what it means to be a Christian.they practice Roman catholicism which is essentially paganism.
As much as some of us love this band we tend to think everyone who likes them must be like "us"/me (projection = psychology 101).then you come across some retarded dick-head at a show and it dawns on you that not all PJ fans are smart or cool or like "us"/me.
So, this is the true. And similar can be with Ed. When He says things like this, He probably thinks He is talking to people who think the same or similar way as He. But! Not everybody thinks for him/herself. All what I found looking for informations about The Band's opinions of many themes is that Ed has no problem to show people what He thinks and He's very decided with words He says. But (another "but"...) everywhere we can find people who look for authorities and when they find... often forgetting about making their own "legend" - i mean: to stay being themselves. It's easier...maybe...
It's only one thing I would like to know about Ed in this case - what would He say in discussion if an interlocutor disagree with Him. Open-minded people sometimes change their point of view if we provide them good arguments.
Anyway - about Christians - i know some of them-i don't understand how people can be so involved in any philosophy,religion and... but - for them it's good - they make world and people around more peaceful, and for me-this is ok:)
Not 10c member? Have sth to say? write to me - I'll put it on the forum
halszka123@op.pl
Just because religious people find homosexuality appaling, does not make them close-minded.
Yep, those are the people I don't want to hang out with. And no, I'm not gay.
The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, correct? Back when the Bible was written, that word simply meant not traditional, not sinful. Yet today, in 2008, religious fundies picket funerals of dead soldiers and homosexuals are persecuted everywhere (not only by those Westboro Baptist freaks) for something beyond their control.
If your God exists (and he doesn't) he sure fucked up a lot of his designs.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
To also add, one could easily argue that our society has fallen and is seriously eroded because of these so-called open-minded individuals. Just step inside a school now and see how bad we have become. Complete chaos. Nobody has any self-control or respect for anyone but themselves. It's really disgusting and I would argue it is because of the lack of family structure, religion, and "open-mindedness" and everyone unwilling to judge. In 30 years, I cannot see our country being viable because of the lack of a moral center. And I am sure this is where the philosopher comment will say, "Who can define morality. Who's to say what is moral to you is moral to the next guy," etc. We live in a world of right and wrong; good and evil. Face it.
One of the most intelligent posts I've seen here. And your last sentence is spot on, only problem is what is "right" and "wrong" in today's society has become so blurred, that its almost indistinguishable. The "moral centre" you wrote about is exactly what has gotten us to this point after all these years but now some misguided clowns who choose to believe nothing and believe in nothing have changed a lot.
And sometimes is seen a strange spot in the sky...A human being that was giveeeeeeeeeeeeen to flllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
i don't understand how people can be so involved in any philosophy,religion and... but - for them it's good - they make world and people around more peaceful, and for me-this is ok:)
It does not make the world a better place. Far from it. War, disease, antagonism on a Pearl Jam message board...
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Yep, those are the people I don't want to hang out with. And no, I'm not gay.
The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, correct? Back when the Bible was written, that word simply meant not traditional, not sinful. Yet today, in 2008, religious fundies picket funerals of dead soldiers and homosexuals are persecuted everywhere (not only by those Westboro Baptist freaks) for something beyond their control.
If your God exists (and he doesn't) he sure fucked up a lot of his designs.
That's why he gave us free agency; we can choose what we think is right or wrong. You can choose your right and I can choose mine. Simple.
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
Thomas Jefferson 1743 - 1826
Coming from a man who owned slaves?
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
If being "right" is to humiliate, harm, persecute and/or murder innocent people then I'm happy to be "wrong."
I agree completely with you when it comes to those things. Any moral person would never humiliate, harm, persecute, or murder someone because they disagree with their point of view, lifestyle, etc. Those churches that picket soldier's funerals and persecute homosexuals, etc. are pathetic and should be lamblasted to the fullest. I would never hate anyone for being gay or not hang out with them. However, I just find homosexuality wrong. I also find doing drugs and other things wrong. I find rampant sexuality wrong; that doesn't mean I won't have friends that feel different. Trust me, coming from a religion who is constantly ridiculed and picketed by other so-called Christians, I know how it feels, though not to the extent of homosexuals.
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
One of the most intelligent posts I've seen here. And your last sentence is spot on, only problem is what is "right" and "wrong" in today's society has become so blurred, that its almost indistinguishable. The "moral centre" you wrote about is exactly what has gotten us to this point after all these years but now some misguided clowns who choose to believe nothing and believe in nothing have changed a lot.
And... sorry, this is the dark side of democracy. The margin between your behaviour as a manifestation of freedom and the completely chaos is very thin.
Not 10c member? Have sth to say? write to me - I'll put it on the forum
halszka123@op.pl
The Bible condones slavery, doesn't it? Or do you cherry-pick?
I happen to diasgree with some of what the Bible says. Remember this is a book put together and retranslated by many people over the years so much is incorrect and missing from the original texts/prophecies.
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
Yet today, in 2008, religious fundies picket funerals of dead soldiers and homosexuals are persecuted everywhere (not only by those Westboro Baptist freaks) for something beyond their control.
If your God exists (and he doesn't) he sure fucked up a lot of his designs.
That's the goofiest thing I've seen in this thread. The only real things I've ever seen in regards to protesting dead soldiers are the anti-war people that will actually protest and picket the funerals of dead soldiers while their families are grieving. I can't imagine someone protesting a dead soldier for religious reasons, but if they did then, yes, that's awful.
That's the goofiest thing I've seen in this thread. The only real things I've ever seen in regards to protesting dead soldiers are the anti-war people that will actually protest and picket the funerals of dead soldiers while their families are grieving. I can't imagine someone protesting a dead soldier for religious reasons, but if they did then, yes, that's awful.
This particular church does; they say the war is because the US allows homosexuality.
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
How do you become an aetheist? I think I want to become one.
It's simple. Stop believing in fairy tales and accept that no one knows why the universe is the way it is. You can appreciate life, beauty and nature for its magnificence without giving credit to a fictional, literary character.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
That's the goofiest thing I've seen in this thread. The only real things I've ever seen in regards to protesting dead soldiers are the anti-war people that will actually protest and picket the funerals of dead soldiers while their families are grieving. I can't imagine someone protesting a dead soldier for religious reasons, but if they did then, yes, that's awful.
Sadly, the Westboro Baptist Church is very real. Take my word for it. If you read more about them, you'll only be saddened by man's ability to be so delusional and cruel.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Comments
For example, if I've gone to say White Castle (which is actually a good example)... once I eat it I'll have an opinion on if its good or not. That's from experience. But then there's all these idiots who won't go because someone says its bad... never tried it though. That's truly being closed-minded. But I am too because from my experience I like it, so you telling me its bad isnt going to make my brain dislike the sweet, sweet taste of it.
And as stupid as it sounds, you could translate that exactly to politics/religion. Once you believe something its going to take something absolutely huge to change it. I guess maybe if you're pro-life and hear a heartbreaking story about someone who needed an abortion, or if you're pro-choice and hear what happens with a partial-term abortion... but my guess is 98% of people won't change their opinions anyway unless they personally go through something like that...
i think it really boils down to how accepting of the truth you are.so many people are living in denial.denial about the state of the world & denial about the state of our country,our fascist,tyrannical police state quickly sliding down the slippery slop.
"denial is the refuge of the coward"
people use it to cast an illusion on their lives and delude themselves into thinking everything is going to be ok. I'll just stick my head in the sand and hope it all goes away.
Uh, let's see... Homosexuality, eating shellfish, contraception, separation of church and state, abortion, evolution, foreskin, it's rather a long list...
Feel free to list a few things that atheists are close-minded about.
This discussion reminds me of a song...
"I'm a thief, I'm a liar,
There's my church, I sing in the choir."
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Are you really an aetheist? Man that is hip!
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
Speaking of mindless sheep,I bet Ten wouldn't have gone 12 times platinum without all the mindlessness of the grunge trend.
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
www.bebo.com/pearljam06
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
"In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.
Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you!"
- George Carlin
The more secular and progressive a society, the less crime, better education etc. (see Denmark, Holland, etc.)
In the U.S., the states with the highest divorce rate, most violent crime, poorest education, are also the most religious.
And no, I didn't make all that up. Check out the Pew studies.
As for morality, it's innate. You are born with a basic sense of what is right and what is wrong. If you don't believe me, read your Bible. Jesus tells the story of the Good Samaritan. Now that guy couldn't possibly have been a Christian, right? He was a good person all on his own and he didn't need myths to teach him the difference between right and wrong.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
So, this is the true. And similar can be with Ed. When He says things like this, He probably thinks He is talking to people who think the same or similar way as He. But! Not everybody thinks for him/herself. All what I found looking for informations about The Band's opinions of many themes is that Ed has no problem to show people what He thinks and He's very decided with words He says. But (another "but"...) everywhere we can find people who look for authorities and when they find... often forgetting about making their own "legend" - i mean: to stay being themselves. It's easier...maybe...
It's only one thing I would like to know about Ed in this case - what would He say in discussion if an interlocutor disagree with Him. Open-minded people sometimes change their point of view if we provide them good arguments.
Anyway - about Christians - i know some of them-i don't understand how people can be so involved in any philosophy,religion and... but - for them it's good - they make world and people around more peaceful, and for me-this is ok:)
halszka123@op.pl
Yep, those are the people I don't want to hang out with. And no, I'm not gay.
The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, correct? Back when the Bible was written, that word simply meant not traditional, not sinful. Yet today, in 2008, religious fundies picket funerals of dead soldiers and homosexuals are persecuted everywhere (not only by those Westboro Baptist freaks) for something beyond their control.
If your God exists (and he doesn't) he sure fucked up a lot of his designs.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
One of the most intelligent posts I've seen here. And your last sentence is spot on, only problem is what is "right" and "wrong" in today's society has become so blurred, that its almost indistinguishable. The "moral centre" you wrote about is exactly what has gotten us to this point after all these years but now some misguided clowns who choose to believe nothing and believe in nothing have changed a lot.
enough said
It does not make the world a better place. Far from it. War, disease, antagonism on a Pearl Jam message board...
www.screenplaymechanic.com
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
Here's another...
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
Thomas Jefferson 1743 - 1826
www.screenplaymechanic.com
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
If being "right" is to humiliate, harm, persecute and/or murder innocent people then I'm happy to be "wrong."
www.screenplaymechanic.com
The Bible condones slavery, doesn't it? Or do you cherry-pick?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
BINGO.
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
halszka123@op.pl
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
It's simple. Stop believing in fairy tales and accept that no one knows why the universe is the way it is. You can appreciate life, beauty and nature for its magnificence without giving credit to a fictional, literary character.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Sadly, the Westboro Baptist Church is very real. Take my word for it. If you read more about them, you'll only be saddened by man's ability to be so delusional and cruel.
www.screenplaymechanic.com