THE PHILADELPHIA EAGLES...

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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    The Jeagler wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:

    I'd be curious to see how many points the eagles have scored in 2 minute offense situations this year. THen compare this year to previous years. As Shanahan has pointed out, mcnabb can't run a 2 minute drill to save his life (peter king backed this up in his column last week...mcnabb has scored 3 points in 4 games when his team had the ball in the 4th qtr with 2 mins left, and were tied or losing...he's just inept when the pressure is on him). kolb and garcia have both shown the abiltity to do so in reid's offense (christ even AJ Feely did it better than mcnabb).

    Not saying that reid is a master with clock management, but again, I think mcnabb was more of the problem than reid in terms of the 2 minute drill/clock management

    what does that have to do with reid mismanaging timeouts? would a great coach start off the season the way he did with both qb's against green bay? would a great coach completely lose track of time in the waning minutes of the first half of that redskins game? those were two crucial, and dumb, mistakes a coach in his 12th season should not be making.

    even on sunday. we used up all of our first half time outs with more than 5 minutes remaining in the half. we talked about the stupid challenge that cost him a time out in the second half also. this shit happens all the time. at least he's somewhat more committed to running the ball this year. i will give him a little credit for that. we had a 7 minute drive in the 4th quarter that didn't score any points but ate up a huge amount of clock.

    he's not a great coach dude.

    I don't see how you can knock him for his management of the QB situation. if anything he should be praised. kolb is his guy and he put him on the bench because vick gives them the best chance to win. I think his handling of that situation has been incredible (I still have trouble rooting for vick, but he's the guy that should be playing).

    the clock stuff is fair. we'll see what happens over the next few years. reid is still one of the 3 best coaches in the NFL. period
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    The Fixer wrote:
    The Jeagler wrote:
    what does that have to do with reid mismanaging timeouts? would a great coach start off the season the way he did with both qb's against green bay? would a great coach completely lose track of time in the waning minutes of the first half of that redskins game? those were two crucial, and dumb, mistakes a coach in his 12th season should not be making.

    even on sunday. we used up all of our first half time outs with more than 5 minutes remaining in the half. we talked about the stupid challenge that cost him a time out in the second half also. this shit happens all the time. at least he's somewhat more committed to running the ball this year. i will give him a little credit for that. we had a 7 minute drive in the 4th quarter that didn't score any points but ate up a huge amount of clock.

    he's not a great coach dude.

    I don't see how you can knock him for his management of the QB situation. if anything he should be praised. kolb is his guy and he put him on the bench because vick gives them the best chance to win. I think his handling of that situation has been incredible (I still have trouble rooting for vick, but he's the guy that should be playing).

    the clock stuff is fair. we'll see what happens over the next few years. reid is still one of the 3 best coaches in the NFL. period

    go back a few pages in this thread. you ripped him for the way he handled the qb situation against green bay also. the way that game/this season started was an absolute abortion. that needs to be seperated from what happened in the weeks after that. for all we know, he'd still be starting kolb and utilizing vick as the stupid wildcat every other play if kolb didn't get hurt. i agree he's made the right choice with vick. i think kolb is traded in the offseason, assuming this year plays out the way i think it will. kolb is average at best.

    always said reid's in top 5 or so in the league. the league is filled with horrendous coaches. that does not make him great, in my mind though.
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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    The Jeagler wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    The Jeagler wrote:
    what does that have to do with reid mismanaging timeouts? would a great coach start off the season the way he did with both qb's against green bay? would a great coach completely lose track of time in the waning minutes of the first half of that redskins game? those were two crucial, and dumb, mistakes a coach in his 12th season should not be making.

    even on sunday. we used up all of our first half time outs with more than 5 minutes remaining in the half. we talked about the stupid challenge that cost him a time out in the second half also. this shit happens all the time. at least he's somewhat more committed to running the ball this year. i will give him a little credit for that. we had a 7 minute drive in the 4th quarter that didn't score any points but ate up a huge amount of clock.

    he's not a great coach dude.

    I don't see how you can knock him for his management of the QB situation. if anything he should be praised. kolb is his guy and he put him on the bench because vick gives them the best chance to win. I think his handling of that situation has been incredible (I still have trouble rooting for vick, but he's the guy that should be playing).

    the clock stuff is fair. we'll see what happens over the next few years. reid is still one of the 3 best coaches in the NFL. period

    go back a few pages in this thread. you ripped him for the way he handled the qb situation against green bay also. the way that game/this season started was an absolute abortion. that needs to be seperated from what happened in the weeks after that. for all we know, he'd still be starting kolb and utilizing vick as the stupid wildcat every other play if kolb didn't get hurt. i agree he's made the right choice with vick. i think kolb is traded in the offseason, assuming this year plays out the way i think it will. kolb is average at best.

    always said reid's in top 5 or so in the league. the league is filled with horrendous coaches. that does not make him great, in my mind though.

    gb was the opening game dude. kolb started and got hurt, so vick came in. there is nothing to rip. you are confused brotha

    verdict is still out on kolb. I need more than 4 games to make a determination one way or another

    EDIT: just realized you're talking about me ripping the wildcat nonsense. gotcha. I hated that shit from the beginning.

    I really just don't like vick as a person or a football player. anyone else notice how long he holds the ball when he drops back?
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    The Fixer wrote:
    The Jeagler wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    I don't see how you can knock him for his management of the QB situation. if anything he should be praised. kolb is his guy and he put him on the bench because vick gives them the best chance to win. I think his handling of that situation has been incredible (I still have trouble rooting for vick, but he's the guy that should be playing).

    the clock stuff is fair. we'll see what happens over the next few years. reid is still one of the 3 best coaches in the NFL. period

    go back a few pages in this thread. you ripped him for the way he handled the qb situation against green bay also. the way that game/this season started was an absolute abortion. that needs to be seperated from what happened in the weeks after that. for all we know, he'd still be starting kolb and utilizing vick as the stupid wildcat every other play if kolb didn't get hurt. i agree he's made the right choice with vick. i think kolb is traded in the offseason, assuming this year plays out the way i think it will. kolb is average at best.

    always said reid's in top 5 or so in the league. the league is filled with horrendous coaches. that does not make him great, in my mind though.

    gb was the opening game dude. kolb started and got hurt, so vick came in. there is nothing to rip. you are confused brotha

    verdict is still out on kolb. I need more than 4 games to make a determination one way or another

    EDIT: just realized you're talking about me ripping the wildcat nonsense. gotcha. I hated that shit from the beginning.

    I really just don't like vick as a person or a football player. anyone else notice how long he holds the ball when he drops back?

    are you suffering from short term memory loss? the game started with us using the wildcat. i think reid had vick lined up as a wideout on our first play from scrimmage this year. HORRENDOUS.
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  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    The Jeagler wrote:
    are you suffering from short term memory loss? the game started with us using the wildcat. i think reid had vick lined up as a wideout on our first play from scrimmage this year. HORRENDOUS.

    if you watched every move of every coach in the game you'd have chances to rip everyone at some point including the greatest coaches of all time. none are perfect or make the right moves all the time. Remember Bellichick was considered a failure in Cleveland, was ambling along before Bledsoe got hurt and Brady took over (and he started cheating). no coach is flawless. to pick out one play from one game is stupid.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Jeagler wrote:
    are you suffering from short term memory loss? the game started with us using the wildcat. i think reid had vick lined up as a wideout on our first play from scrimmage this year. HORRENDOUS.

    if you watched every move of every coach in the game you'd have chances to rip everyone at some point including the greatest coaches of all time. none are perfect or make the right moves all the time. Remember Bellichick was considered a failure in Cleveland, was ambling along before Bledsoe got hurt and Brady took over (and he started cheating). no coach is flawless. to pick out one play from one game is stupid.

    good point. also worth noting in your example that it appears belichek learned from the mistakes he made early in his coaching career. reid continues to make the same mistakes year in, year out.


    and i picked out 2 games from just this season...which is only 8 games old at this point.
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  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    The Jeagler wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Jeagler wrote:
    are you suffering from short term memory loss? the game started with us using the wildcat. i think reid had vick lined up as a wideout on our first play from scrimmage this year. HORRENDOUS.

    if you watched every move of every coach in the game you'd have chances to rip everyone at some point including the greatest coaches of all time. none are perfect or make the right moves all the time. Remember Bellichick was considered a failure in Cleveland, was ambling along before Bledsoe got hurt and Brady took over (and he started cheating). no coach is flawless. to pick out one play from one game is stupid.

    good point. also worth noting in your example that it appears belichek learned from the mistakes he made early in his coaching career. reid continues to make the same mistakes year in, year out.


    and i picked out 2 games from just this season...which is only 8 games old at this point.


    yup he learned to get his starting QB hurt and miracle of miracles insert one of the 3-5 best QBs of all time - luck and cheating (convicted) had nothing to do with Belichek's (still no clue how to spell his name so i apologize for that) rise to immortality.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Jeagler wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    if you watched every move of every coach in the game you'd have chances to rip everyone at some point including the greatest coaches of all time. none are perfect or make the right moves all the time. Remember Bellichick was considered a failure in Cleveland, was ambling along before Bledsoe got hurt and Brady took over (and he started cheating). no coach is flawless. to pick out one play from one game is stupid.

    good point. also worth noting in your example that it appears belichek learned from the mistakes he made early in his coaching career. reid continues to make the same mistakes year in, year out.


    and i picked out 2 games from just this season...which is only 8 games old at this point.


    yup he learned to get his starting QB hurt and miracle of miracles insert one of the 3-5 best QBs of all time - luck and cheating (convicted) had nothing to do with Belichek's (still no clue how to spell his name so i apologize for that) rise to immortality.

    that's it. that is all bill belichek ever did.
    :roll:
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  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    Seriously though, without Brady, Belicheck wouldn't be on the map. People seem to forget how wretched he was in Cleveland.
  • Phantom Pain
    Phantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    Seriously though, without Brady, Belicheck wouldn't be on the map. People seem to forget how wretched he was in Cleveland.

    Name me a good to great coach without a stud QB for most of his career ?
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  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    Seriously though, without Brady, Belicheck wouldn't be on the map. People seem to forget how wretched he was in Cleveland.

    Name me a good to great coach without a stud QB for most of his career ?

    John Gruden, Mike Ditka, Joe Gibbs(just as good without Theisman), Bill Parcells, Marty Shottenheimer.....I could probably keep going.

    My point is Belicheck has more to thank Brady for his accolades as opposed to the other way around.
  • Phantom Pain
    Phantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    Seriously though, without Brady, Belicheck wouldn't be on the map. People seem to forget how wretched he was in Cleveland.

    Name me a good to great coach without a stud QB for most of his career ?

    John Gruden, Mike Ditka, Joe Gibbs(just as good without Theisman), Bill Parcells, Marty Shottenheimer.....I could probably keep going.

    My point is Belicheck has more to thank Brady for his accolades as opposed to the other way around.

    Majority of those coaches had stud defenses...Marty-ball never won crap'ola

    I agree the Pats fell into shit with Brady ...but without Talent on both sides of the ball no teams win

    Just having a great QB doesn't gurantee you a SB run
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • 81
    81 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    Parcells had Simms who while not montana, was no slouch.

    Marty had Bernie and kid out in SD
    81 is now off the air

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  • Phantom Pain
    Phantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    81 wrote:
    Parcells had Simms who while not montana, was no slouch.

    Marty had Bernie and kid out in SD

    Parcells did win one with the Hoss

    again their D was stellar.....Taylor,Banks,Marshall,Pepper Johnson
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    81 wrote:
    Parcells had Simms who while not montana, was no slouch.

    Marty had Bernie and kid out in SD

    Yeah, Parcells who still won without Simms with Jeff friggin Hostetler at the gun, and Vinny Testaverde with the Jets.

    And don't give Bernie Kosar that much credit. And he won a shit ton of games in KC with Steve Deberg, a washed up Montana, and Elvis Grbac.
  • Phantom Pain
    Phantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    81 wrote:
    Parcells had Simms who while not montana, was no slouch.

    Marty had Bernie and kid out in SD

    Yeah, Parcells who still won without Simms with Jeff friggin Hostetler at the gun, and Vinny Testaverde with the Jets.

    And don't give Bernie Kosar that much credit. And he won a shit ton of games in KC with Steve Deberg, a washed up Montana, and Elvis Grbac.

    Are we considering good coaches just coaches that won games and not Super Bowl's ?

    Matt Cassel count in NE ?
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,530
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    81 wrote:
    Parcells had Simms who while not montana, was no slouch.

    Marty had Bernie and kid out in SD

    Yeah, Parcells who still won without Simms with Jeff friggin Hostetler at the gun, and Vinny Testaverde with the Jets.

    And don't give Bernie Kosar that much credit. And he won a shit ton of games in KC with Steve Deberg, a washed up Montana, and Elvis Grbac.

    Are we considering good coaches just coaches that won games and not Super Bowl's ?

    Matt Cassel count in NE ?

    You said good to great. And I would say upon the notion that they've won a lot of games, and may have won a Super Bowl. That'd be consistent with good to great. Cassel I'll give you, but one season without Brady doesn't tell me anything. Especially when Moss wanted to play, and therefore made Welker a better receiver and so on. The latter years of the Pats have been built upon their reputation of those three Super Bowl wins. Drafting Tom Brady was the equivalent of winning the lottery. Extremely lucky.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    bill belichick is a defensive coach.

    his '03 team lead the league in points allowed per game at 14.9......14.9!
    the '04 team was 2nd with 16.3 ppg.
    the '01 team was 6th with 17 ppg

    can't believe i have to defend bill belichick here...

    those team's won with their defense as much as they did on the other side of the ball.
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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:

    Yeah, Parcells who still won without Simms with Jeff friggin Hostetler at the gun, and Vinny Testaverde with the Jets.

    And don't give Bernie Kosar that much credit. And he won a shit ton of games in KC with Steve Deberg, a washed up Montana, and Elvis Grbac.

    Are we considering good coaches just coaches that won games and not Super Bowl's ?

    Matt Cassel count in NE ?

    You said good to great. And I would say upon the notion that they've won a lot of games, and may have won a Super Bowl. That'd be consistent with good to great. Cassel I'll give you, but one season without Brady doesn't tell me anything. Especially when Moss wanted to play, and therefore made Welker a better receiver and so on. The latter years of the Pats have been built upon their reputation of those three Super Bowl wins. Drafting Tom Brady was the equivalent of winning the lottery. Extremely lucky.

    how have their latter years been based on reputation? they were in the super bowl 3 years ago. 2 years ago brady was out for the season and they still won 10 games. last year they were back in the playoffs. they'll be back again this year. and they have about 50 draft picks next april. do you expect them to win the super bowl every year? :mrgreen:
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  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    The Jeagler wrote:
    that's it. that is all bill belichek ever did.
    :roll:

    never said that was all he did - just trying to make the point that circumstances for coaches differ so hard to say because A did this that he is necessarily greater than B. Yes I think Bellichek is a great coach but he did get fn lucky as hell that Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time and basically fell in his lap. Hell at least give Andy Reid credit for Drafting a long term damn good to great QB in McNabb over guys like Akili Smith and Cade McNown who people loved going into that draft - not to mention the Ricky Williams morons. My point is trying to say X is or is not a great coach because he hasn't won one extra game to me is a bit or a reach since circumstances are different for each coach and organization.

    In closing on the Andy Reid argument let me say that I've seen a hell of a lot of coaches in Philly in my lifetime an he is at the top of the list with Mike Keenan (who never won a title in philly but still did an amazing job) - Billy Cunningham and Fred Shero were in my lifetime but really before i could judge them. To me those 2 guys (Keenan and Reid) on the professional level are heads and shoulders above all the rest (although I think Peter Laviolette will be joining those 2 soon, love him as a coach). Charlie Manual won a title and he is a moron so take winning a title with a grain of salt.
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