***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Solat13 wrote:

Well it pretty much is - what stat is more important than getting on base? It's the hitters only job when he's at the plate.

ah, a voice of reason. I love talking baseball with people that understand the game

I have this vague recollection that the object of the game is to score more runs than the other team, not to have more baserunners than the other team. That's why Jimmy Rollins is a (albeit injury-prone) championship caliber player, not a sabermetric player.

more baserunners usually means more runs

son of a....
Rollins not ready to return
By Bob Brookover

Inquirer Staff Writer

Some people believe Jimmy Rollins is the best answer to the biggest question dogging the Phillies right now: Where, oh, where has manager Charlie Manuel's offense gone?

"I sit there and think, 'What kind of ballplayer, even if it's an extra man, could give the team a spark?' " Phillies chairman Bill Giles said Thursday during a charity event at Citizens Bank Park.

His conclusion: Injured shortstop Jimmy Rollins.

"I think we miss J-Roll's energy as much as his ability," Giles said.

Rollins returned from his 10 days of rehabilitation workouts in Clearwater, Fla., to take part in his fifth annual Jimmy Rollins BaseBowl Tournament in Center City to benefit the Arthritis Foundation.

Rollins will rejoin his teammates for the start of Friday night's four-game series against the San Diego Padres, but he is not ready to return from his second stint on the disabled list caused by a strained right calf. General manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said the three-time all-star shortstop would not be ready to return Sunday when he is eligible to come off the 15-day disabled list.

"He's progressing slowly," Amaro said. "He's still feeling a little something in his calf, although when he runs on a treadmill or jogs on a treadmill, he's fine. When he gets to do some sprint work, he still feels some tightness in the calf. I think, hopefully, in the next 10 days or two weeks he'll be back playing for us."

Before Rollins' latest trip to the disabled list, the Phillies had survived quite well without him. They were 18-12 in 30 games during his absence earlier this season and 16-12 without him during a stretch in 2008.

This time, however, the Phillies' offense disappeared right about the same time Rollins aggravated the calf injury that he first suffered running wind sprints before the April 12 home opener.

Since Rollins left in the sixth inning of a May 21 win against Boston, the Phillies have gone scoreless in 92 of 99 innings. They have scored a total of 14 runs and gone 2-9, watching a 41/2-game lead in the National League East turn into a 21/2-game deficit to the first-place Atlanta Braves.

Rollins answered questions about his calf before his bowling tournament, but he admitted to being just as perplexed as everyone else about the offense.

"If I was there, I'd probably have a good answer for you," he said. "But being outside the clubhouse and not knowing what the mood is like in there . . . maybe we need a fight or something. Maybe just coming back home with a fresh start again.

"This is usually something that happens in June, so if we got it out of the way the last week in May, that's great with me. We have a tough schedule ahead of us, so it's a good time to start hitting the ball."

Rollins said he could have participated in his bowling tournament but opted against it.

"I probably can, but I'm not going to take a chance," he said. "On top of that, it's just not a good look to be bowling while you're on the DL."

The shortstop said this injury has not been as severe as his initial calf injury this season, but he couldn't offer an exact timetable for his return.

"It's not going slow at all," he said. "We're right on schedule. I'll be back whenever they say I'm good to go and I feel I'm good to go. We've been aggressive in certain areas and not as aggressive as we were in others in the past."

Rollins does not think he returned too soon from his first calf injury.

"We did everything right last time, but injuries are injuries," he said. "Maybe you're working a muscle, you haven't worked before and fatigue plays a factor. I know it's different as far as the pain threshold from what I was able to withstand with this one. I didn't have to limp this time after the first day it happened, so that right there shows you it's not as bad as the first time.

"It's one of those things you try to do everything right and sometimes it still doesn't work. [Calves] are tricky cats. There really isn't too much known about calves. They're small muscles, but everybody knows they work for speed."

The Jeagler wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

anyone expecting another perfect outing today?



let's go doc!

love having the phils and flyers on at the same time. I'm a professional with the remote

i'll be watching at the dave and busters in plymouth meeting.

not a huge fan of that place but, alas, i was overruled.

Threw my arm out the last time I was at one of those places. At least I know I can still hit the 80's on the speed gun!

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

more baserunners usually means more runs

top 5 teams in mlb OBS:

1. New York Yankees
2. Minnesota Twins
3. Atlanta Braves
4. Boston Red Sox
5. Cincinnati Reds

top 5 teams in mlb for runs:

1. New York Yankees
2. Boston Red Sox
3. Toronto Blue Jays (27th in OBS)
4. Tampa Bay Rays
5. Cincinnati Reds

so, in general i would say yes ... high OBS leads to more Runs but there are anomalies

I'd rather be one of the teams that's in the Top 5 in runs than in OBP, and I'd rather have a "Phillies type" SS like Rollins who scores runs but has a lousy OBP, compared to a Moneyball type of player like Bobby Abreu, who always looks for the walk in clutch situations.

I despised abreu more than any philly athlete I have watched. I'm not saying OBP is the be-all end-all for gauging players, but it is effective. adam dunn is in the league leaders in OBP annually and he sucks.

to steal a line from cliffy...just look at the slash stats. they are a great snapshot of player effectiveness. OPS is good too.

The Fixer wrote:

Was nice to see Lidge look good tonight. all about fastball location for him.

Jeags...did you see polanco miss that ball in the 6th inning? bad hop off the grass cutout. he's on turf that's an easy play for him.

feliz would have had it.


why do you let these debates get into your head?

that was last week dude. that argument can go either way for reasons we both laid out...a week ago.


good to see lidge pitch the way he pitched last night. i wanna see him do it again the next night out.

GO. PHILS.

The Jeagler wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Was nice to see Lidge look good tonight. all about fastball location for him.

Jeags...did you see polanco miss that ball in the 6th inning? bad hop off the grass cutout. he's on turf that's an easy play for him.

that argument can go either way for reasons we both laid out...a week ago.

why cant you ever admit when you're wrong? I didn't see one legit argument in the turf vs grass nonsense you were spewing.

jamie moyer pitches every time I go to a fucking game.

full blown AIDS

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

i still think the phils could have swindled phil hughes from the yankees if they would've thrown in "flash" gordon with that trade. his stock was never higher right after that all star appearance. he blew ever since.

that's crazy talk..hughes was a top prospect. the abreu trade was addition by subtraction. gillick knew that dude was a dog.

i agree. it was addition by subtraction...but we could have gotten more.

go back and read the reports back then. it was possible. i know he was a top prospect. but abreu and gordon's stock were sky high at the time. plus we made that trade a day and a half before the deadline. i always thought we should have waited a little longer before pulling the trigger to get some other team interested. we could have gotten more than the slop we got.

When Gillick traded Abreu he was conceding the season. He didn't think they were going to be competitive enough to make a playoff run that year.

The Jeagler wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

i still think the phils could have swindled phil hughes from the yankees if they would've thrown in "flash" gordon with that trade. his stock was never higher right after that all star appearance. he blew ever since.

that's crazy talk..hughes was a top prospect. the abreu trade was addition by subtraction. gillick knew that dude was a dog.

i agree. it was addition by subtraction...but we could have gotten more.

go back and read the reports back then. it was possible. i know he was a top prospect. but abreu and gordon's stock were sky high at the time. plus we made that trade a day and a half before the deadline. i always thought we should have waited a little longer before pulling the trigger to get some other team interested. we could have gotten more than the slop we got.

wow, you are lost here. abreu had a no trade clause and said he'd only go to 2 teams (yanks or boston)...plus he had a high salary that was tough to move at the time.

gillicks' hands were tied...he had zero trade leverage. that trade was strictly a salary dump. the players the phils got back were secondary...they just wanted to get rid of abreu. it was a great trade by gillick.

also, the yanks had previously had tom gordon. at that point in gordon's career he was an injury prone reliever. that's not bringing back shit in a trade...let alone a top MLB prospect