***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

that's crazy talk..hughes was a top prospect. the abreu trade was addition by subtraction. gillick knew that dude was a dog.

i agree. it was addition by subtraction...but we could have gotten more.

go back and read the reports back then. it was possible. i know he was a top prospect. but abreu and gordon's stock were sky high at the time. plus we made that trade a day and a half before the deadline. i always thought we should have waited a little longer before pulling the trigger to get some other team interested. we could have gotten more than the slop we got.

wow, you are lost here. abreu had a no trade clause and said he'd only go to 2 teams (yanks or boston)...plus he had a high salary that was tough to move at the time.

gillicks' hands were tied...he had zero trade leverage. that trade was strictly a salary dump. the players the phils got back were secondary...they just wanted to get rid of abreu. it was a great trade by gillick.

also, the yanks had previously had tom gordon. at that point in gordon's career he was an injury prone reliever. that's not bringing back shit in a trade...let alone a top MLB prospect

how am i lost? why is it that anyone who disagrees with you has to be "lost" or does not know what he is talking about? try having a conversation without demeaning people man.

gillick was trying to pry hughes from the yankees throughout their whole discussions. the yankees would not budge. the redsox jumped into the mix during that last weekend. how am i "lost" for suggesting we wait another 36 hours to see if would could get a little more than the slop we got?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/31/sport ... trade.html
During the discussions, Cashman was insistent about not including elite prospects like pitcher Phil Hughes and outfielder José Tábata. Cashman stuck to that approach until the Phillies accepted players the Yankees did not value as much.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/r ... rs/?page=2
the Red Sox were said to have been in the bidding for Abreu, the Phillies outfielder who was traded instead to the Yankees.


http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... bby-abreu/
The Yankees-led media was cock-a-hoop about the deal. Here is what Jayson Stark at ESPN had to say:

Now presenting the most lopsided deadline deal of this millennium: Abreu and Lidle for four guys the Yankees already have forgotten they ever employed ...

..."I keep asking myself, 'Is there something I don't know about Bobby Abreu that they know?' " said a high-ranking official of a team that would have loved to add Abreu in a less complicated, dollar-signed world. "I'm just baffled that they could not get anything back for a guy this good. And they paid him $1.5 million to waive his no-trade clause. And they just tossed in Cory Lidle—tossed him in. I know for a fact there were teams that offered better prospects for Lidle alone. I don't get it."



everything is not as black and white as you try to make it out to be.

now beat it dude. go annoy your wife. you've annoyed me enough today.

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

show me when I have been wrong and I'll be the first to admit it.

the turf is more difficult than grass thing is almost as bad as your pedro feliz/phil hughes nonsense

congrats on your engagement

for starters see the post directly above this one.

Cliffy6745

Yank did not want Tom Gordon they let him walk the year before or whatever it was because he wanted multiple years and the yanks would only give him on. No shot the yanks would have taken him. And I hear what you are saying jeags but the yanks wouldn't even trade Hughes for Santana

Cliffy6745

Btw I always thought that trade was a steal for the Yankees so I agree they probably could have gotten more, just not a Phil Hughes type player

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Btw I always thought that trade was a steal for the Yankees so I agree they probably could have gotten more, just not a Phil Hughes type player

right. he had 2 more years on his contract too so we could have unloaded him after the season if need be....at least wait till the deadline to see if the sox would have hopped in full steam to up the price tag.

i loved getting rid of abreu as much as the next guy, my whole point is we could have gotten more.

eeriepadave

Great job Jamie! :thumbup:

Johnny Abruzzo

eeriepadave wrote:

Great job Jamie! :thumbup:

+1 - Got home from the game before 10pm - that's gotta be a record!

What's this deal with all this Abreu crap? The Phils have been winners ever since that trade, and the Yanks didn't win it until they got rid of him. He's a loser, and good riddance. I don't think Cashman was ever gonna trade Phil Hughes. Now let's stop living in the past.

The Juggler

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

eeriepadave wrote:

Great job Jamie! :thumbup:

+1 - Got home from the game before 10pm - that's gotta be a record!

What's this deal with all this Abreu crap? The Phils have been winners ever since that trade, and the Yanks didn't win it until they got rid of him. He's a loser, and good riddance. I don't think Cashman was ever gonna trade Phil Hughes. Now let's stop living in the past.

'twas an off-handed comment by me about a 4 year old trade that the fixer could not let go of. point was we could have gotten more than we did if we waited longer to pull the trigger.

yeah moyer looked great last night.

i still don't think it will last but he's only gone less than 6 innings just once this year. that's what you want in the back of your rotation and pretty damn impressive for a dude on the verge of receiving social security benefits.

jamminpearls

eeriepadave wrote:

Great job Jamie! :thumbup:

Its amazing ever since he was called aids hes been pretty damn good. :shock:

Phantom Pain

from mlb.com

Padres right-hander Jon Garland, who allowed six runs over seven innings to lose for the first time since April 11, had a different view of Werth's home run.

"This ballpark is a joke, in my eyes," Garland said. "But it's something you have to deal with."


BAHAHAHAHA!!

The 90yr old Moyer pitch in a different ball park last night ?!?!

Sorry its not the Tavernous PETCO where the ERA's are so deflated

Halladay seems to keep the ball in the park..maybe Garland should pitch better and not be a puzzay

The Fixer

The Jeagler wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

eeriepadave wrote:

Great job Jamie! :thumbup:

+1 - Got home from the game before 10pm - that's gotta be a record!

What's this deal with all this Abreu crap? The Phils have been winners ever since that trade, and the Yanks didn't win it until they got rid of him. He's a loser, and good riddance. I don't think Cashman was ever gonna trade Phil Hughes. Now let's stop living in the past.

'twas an off-handed comment by me about a 4 year old trade that the fixer could not let go of. point was we could have gotten more than we did if we waited longer to pull the trigger.

dude, you're the one that said the phils could have gotten phil hughes in the abreu deal. you are good at posting funny posts like that

gillick's hands were tied when trying to deal that piece of garbage. it's a miracle he got any team to take him off the phils hands. he got low grade prospects back...he did the best he could. just getting rid of abreu was an accomplishment in and of itself.

that trade wasn't about who the phils got back...it was about getting rid of that horrendous contract that ed wade gave abreu.

now go play in the eagles thread where you belong

The Fixer

jamminpearls wrote:

eeriepadave wrote:

Great job Jamie! :thumbup:

Its amazing ever since he was called aids hes been pretty damn good. :shock:

he stinks

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

'twas an off-handed comment by me about a 4 year old trade that the fixer could not let go of. point was we could have gotten more than we did if we waited longer to pull the trigger.

dude, you're the one that said the phils could have gotten phil hughes in the abreu deal. you are good at posting funny posts like that

gillick's hands were tied when trying to deal that piece of garbage. it's a miracle he got any team to take him off the phils hands. he got low grade prospects back...he did the best he could. just getting rid of abreu was an accomplishment in and of itself.

that trade wasn't about who the phils got back...it was about getting rid of that horrendous contract that ed wade gave abreu.

now go play in the eagles thread where you belong

well i posted 3 articles from 4 years ago that supported my argument. again--everything in this world is not black and white, my friend. it would have been prudent to have waited till the deadline to see if we could have gotten more back. if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. there are plenty of people who still think there are wmd's in iraq too and i would not be surprised if you're one of them.

how bout howard and his 3 meaningless rbi's so far today?

GO. PHILS.

jamminpearls

The Fixer wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

eeriepadave wrote:

Great job Jamie! :thumbup:

Its amazing ever since he was called aids hes been pretty damn good. :shock:

he stinks

he's far from the best but all the dude does anymore is go 6+,ill take that from my 5th starter all year no problem.

06/05 SD W 6-2 9.0 7 2 2 0 1 1 17 15 34 98 W(6-5) -- 3.98
05/30 @FLA L 0-1 6.0 4 1 1 0 2 2 9 11 25 96 L(5-5) -- 4.26
05/25 @NYM L 0-8 5.0 7 4 4 0 2 0 12 10 24 104 L(5-4) -- 4.55
05/19 CHC L 1-4 7.0 4 2 2 0 1 7 9 9 26 109 L(5-3) -- 4.30
05/14 @MIL W 9-5 6.1 5 5 4 3 3 3 7 14 27 111 W(5-2) -- 4.57
05/07 ATL W 7-0 9.0 2 0 0 0 0 5 10 13 28 105 W(4-2) -- 4.39
05/02 NYM W 11-5 6.0 6 5 5 2 0 2 10 12 25 99 W(3-2) -- 5.70
04/27 @SF L 2-6 6.0 10 4 4 2 1 2 7 16 27 101 L(2-2) -- 5.25
04/22 @ATL W 8-3 6.0 4 2 0 0 2 4 10 9 26 101 W(2-1) -- 5.00
04/17 FLA L 1-5 6.0 6 5 5 1 1 7 12 5 25 89 L(1-1) -- 7.50
Complete Game Log
He keeps lowering that era,once again i disagree with you and once again i'm correct.

Cliffy6745

http://deadspin.com/5557185/and-heres-a ... eball-game

The Fixer

The Jeagler wrote:

how bout howard and his 3 meaningless rbi's so far today?

GO. PHILS.

that 2nd ball should have been an error. howard also K'd 3 times...why any pitcher throws him anything straight is beyond me. the RBI are meaningless.

honestly, I'm tired of arguing with you bro. we disagree on 90% of baseball related topics and that's fine. I'm sure the others in this thread are sick of our nonsense. I'm offering a truce...just please think about your posts before you submit them

The Fixer

jamminpearls wrote:

he's far from the best but all the dude does anymore is go 6+,ill take that from my 5th starter all year no problem.

06/05 SD W 6-2 9.0 7 2 2 0 1 1 17 15 34 98 W(6-5) -- 3.98
05/30 @FLA L 0-1 6.0 4 1 1 0 2 2 9 11 25 96 L(5-5) -- 4.26
05/25 @NYM L 0-8 5.0 7 4 4 0 2 0 12 10 24 104 L(5-4) -- 4.55
05/19 CHC L 1-4 7.0 4 2 2 0 1 7 9 9 26 109 L(5-3) -- 4.30
05/14 @MIL W 9-5 6.1 5 5 4 3 3 3 7 14 27 111 W(5-2) -- 4.57
05/07 ATL W 7-0 9.0 2 0 0 0 0 5 10 13 28 105 W(4-2) -- 4.39
05/02 NYM W 11-5 6.0 6 5 5 2 0 2 10 12 25 99 W(3-2) -- 5.70
04/27 @SF L 2-6 6.0 10 4 4 2 1 2 7 16 27 101 L(2-2) -- 5.25
04/22 @ATL W 8-3 6.0 4 2 0 0 2 4 10 9 26 101 W(2-1) -- 5.00
04/17 FLA L 1-5 6.0 6 5 5 1 1 7 12 5 25 89 L(1-1) -- 7.50
Complete Game Log
He keeps lowering that era,once again i disagree with you and once again i'm correct.

talk to me next week after he faces the yanks

are you really backing jamie moyer?? seriously

the phils should try to trade moyer when happ comes back. that's probably a pipe dream...I think kendrick will be the one dropped from the rotation. you never know though...maybe they could find a team dumb enough to take moyer of their hands

jamminpearls

The funny thing is before the season I wanted him gone. And after his first couple starts I really wanted him gone. But there comes a time when u have to actually stop being a hater a give the man his do. For any true baseball fan out there u have no choice but to respect and admire what this man is doing out there. All he does is compete and give his team a chance to win and that's all u can ask for especially from a 45yr old pitcher. And if anyone can't see that or admit that then well your clueless.

The Fixer

jamminpearls wrote:

The funny thing is before the season I wanted him gone. And after his first couple starts I really wanted him gone. But there comes a time when u have to actually stop being a hater a give the man his do. For any true baseball fan out there u have no choice but to respect and admire what this man is doing out there. All he does is compete and give his team a chance to win and that's all u can ask for especially from a 45yr old pitcher. And if anyone can't see that or admit that then well your clueless.

your clueless...nice.

he has pitched OK this year. and I do respect what he's done in his career. I think he's gonna return to the mean soon...it's just a matter of time.

jamminpearls

The Fixer wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

The funny thing is before the season I wanted him gone. And after his first couple starts I really wanted him gone. But there comes a time when u have to actually stop being a hater a give the man his do. For any true baseball fan out there u have no choice but to respect and admire what this man is doing out there. All he does is compete and give his team a chance to win and that's all u can ask for especially from a 45yr old pitcher. And if anyone can't see that or admit that then well your clueless.

your clueless...nice.

he has pitched OK this year. and I do respect what he's done in his career. I think he's gonna return to the mean soon...it's just a matter of time.

Never called anyone by name clueless. Even if he returns to being bad he's given us more then anyone could have asked for.Your always so negative your hatered makes me suprised your a phillie fan.You bad mouth an amazing power hitter and one of the most clutch players in history,all the time.