9/11 loose change.

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  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    edited March 2010
    polaris_x wrote:
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    I can't believe some of the conspiracy theory garbage I am reading in these pages. I had to go back and watch a video of those planes fly into the towers to remeind myself of the horrors of that day. There were children on those planes for godsake. I think there were even a few infants. It makes me sick to my stomach to hear people saying that our government had anything to do with it. :cry: :evil:

    2 wars have spawned from that fateful day ... wars which have killed thousands upon thousands of innocent children ... the truth may not be what you want to hear ... but the truth is what will prevent this from happening again ... i'm not saying you are wrong in your beliefs - only that to simply just accept the official story will do nothing to prevent innocent lives from dying in the future ...


    But if the whole point of the supposed conspiracy was to start a war, why not plant some WMD's in Iraq to justify the war? They could have done that before 9/11 and it would have been a lot easier then planting explosives in the towers and rigging them to blow up after the towers got hit by planes. And doing it after the Iraq invasion would have been even easier.

    And considering how much of a mess the Iraq invasion was I find it hard to believe that the same people who planned it also planned such an intricate and for them successful conspiracy.
    Post edited by Kel Varnsen on
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    To say it is an inside job is an absolute conclusion of 9-11. That the government for whatever the reasons, carried out or participated in this plan. That is an absolute conclusion on the question to who did/carried out 9-11. This viewpoint is not based on fact, merely hearsay, assumption and hypothetical motives and after the fact occurrences. So why jump to such an opinion when the verdict on this matter is still unknown or many issues and matters relating to this case are uncertain? That is my point. It's throwing a guilty plea before hearing the evidence, and in this scenario, before having factual evidence backing up your argument wholly.
    polaris_x wrote:
    who's saying you have to accept an absolute conclusion? ... where have i said that?

    if you can provide me circumstantial reasoning and proof that bigfoot did it ... great - i'll listen ... the foundation by which conspiracy theorists are speculating on isn't grounded in 100% certainty but there is more than a reasonable amount of doubt to the official story ...

    all i'm saying is it isn't unreasonable to think there was a conspiracy based on all the information and lack of information out there ... if you want to call it extreme or ridicule it ... that's your perogative i suppose and my effort here to have you see it otherwise has proven fruitless ...
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • dustinpardue
    dustinpardue Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,829
    It's not that hard to figure out, follow the money.
    Definitely a self-inflicted wound.
    "All I Ever Knew" available now in print and digital formats at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and iBooks.
  • Got a hard hard head
    Got a hard hard head Posts: 638
    It's a seriously low act, though, to attack your own country in order to justify a war. Personally, it's almost beyond comprehension that someone could do this.

    I know there's a lot of information and back-up material on the 'net to substantiate this claim, but I choose not to read it. This is not out of ignorance or my own stubborn opinion, it's because facing the reality that this actually MIGHT have happened is just horrific.

    In a situation like this, it may be better not to know.
    It's gonna be a glorious day...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    FiveB247x wrote:
    To say it is an inside job is an absolute conclusion of 9-11. That the government for whatever the reasons, carried out or participated in this plan. That is an absolute conclusion on the question to who did/carried out 9-11. This viewpoint is not based on fact, merely hearsay, assumption and hypothetical motives and after the fact occurrences. So why jump to such an opinion when the verdict on this matter is still unknown or many issues and matters relating to this case are uncertain? That is my point. It's throwing a guilty plea before hearing the evidence, and in this scenario, before having factual evidence backing up your argument wholly.

    why the heck are we going around in circles here ... like i've said a few times ... no one is gonna get all the facts - people have to draw their own conclusions ... there are no absolutes here ... can you absolutely say for certain it wasn't an inside job? ... i doubt it ... so, you draw your conclusions and others will draw theirs ...

    and got a hard hard head - i said that a long time ago ... guilt is a bitch
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    You say there are no absolutes here and that people must draw their own conclusion, but actually and fully believing there was an inside job is an absolute conclusion.
    polaris_x wrote:
    why the heck are we going around in circles here ... like i've said a few times ... no one is gonna get all the facts - people have to draw their own conclusions ... there are no absolutes here ... can you absolutely say for certain it wasn't an inside job? ... i doubt it ... so, you draw your conclusions and others will draw theirs ...

    and got a hard hard head - i said that a long time ago ... guilt is a bitch
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    FiveB247x wrote:
    You say there are no absolutes here and that people must draw their own conclusion, but actually and fully believing there was an inside job is an absolute conclusion.

    then saying it isn't is an absolute conclusion in your view ...

    really - are we having a conversation about semantics?
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Well the main point is, perhaps you should relay this comment to those 9-11 truthers who post on this board ad nasseum as if it is absolute. I never made an absolute claims.
    polaris_x wrote:
    then saying it isn't is an absolute conclusion in your view ...

    really - are we having a conversation about semantics?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Well the main point is, perhaps you should relay this comment to those 9-11 truthers who post on this board ad nasseum as if it is absolute. I never made an absolute claims.

    soo ... what it boils down to is that you are tired of hearing that 9/11 was an inside job - so, instead of entering into a neverending debate based on a plethora of links - you're gonna go with this ... :lol::lol:
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I merely stated my opinion which was that there's no proof to jump to that final conclusion. The conversation then lead me to explain my belief in absolutes. Nothing more, nothing less.
    polaris_x wrote:
    soo ... what it boils down to is that you are tired of hearing that 9/11 was an inside job - so, instead of entering into a neverending debate based on a plethora of links - you're gonna go with this ... :lol::lol:
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • ryanevolution
    ryanevolution Posts: 782
    FiveB247x, you are one of the people I am talking about who never enter into the world of fact and continually debate about debating. It's bullshit.
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  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    ryanevolution wrote:
    FiveB247x, you are one of the people I am talking about who never enter into the world of fact and continually debate about debating. It's bullshit.

    Five's position is firmly grounded in the facts, as we know them to date. Talking about the logic used in 9-11 conspiracy theories is directly pertainent to their accuracy, I would argue. Way back in this thread I was trying to focus you in on the logical holes in these theories, and you just kept repeating that stuff about the buildings, even though several folks have refuted your point about how they fell.
  • ryanevolution
    ryanevolution Posts: 782
    What "several folks" have refuted anything. That video did nothing to explain the other side. Only tried to stir up hate against such "liberals" as Rosie O'Donnel. Funny they chose to show her instead of the people she got her info from. And funny how so many here fell for that hate bait. Distractions are very effective.

    Once again:

    Theory: 9/11 (AT LEAST WTC COLLAPSE) was an inside job

    Facts: 2 Buildings fall at near free fall speed after being hit by airplanes (which they were designed to withstand the impacts of), and a third, non-hit building, is also dropped in a controlled demolition.

    "Inside Job" only means that there had to be people involved inside the building. I have never once drawn a conclusion to "the government" or any individuals.

    All I am looking for is agreement that the must have been explosives inside the building to drop it at that rate. If the floors pancaked as is the official theory, it would have taken over 90 seconds. Even with your time steched "audio" of the collapse it is NOWHERE near 90 seconds.
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    of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,025
    http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf
  • ryanevolution
    ryanevolution Posts: 782
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf
    :lol::lol::lol::lol: About half way through, and there's this little excerpt....

    "While this may have been a contributing factor, I do not believe that we need to
    invoke anything as extreme as the meltingof structural steel in the WTC to explain why
    the towers collapsed." :lol::lol::lol: No need to explain only one of the most fundamental aspects of the collapse. And the first 10 pages, they try there asses off to add every bit of time they can to the collapse, with little success. I will get back to you when I finish this.
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  • ryanevolution
    ryanevolution Posts: 782
    edited March 2010
    And what about this from YOUR SAME GUY!!Your SAME SOURCE: Dr. F. R. Greening,http://wecanchangetheworld.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/dr-fr-greening-responds-to-nists-report-on-wtc-7/......Saying there own conclusions are fucked! :lol:

    "Now consider NIST’s version of the final moments of WTC 7 as exemplified by the computer-generated simulacra of Figure 12-69 of NCSTAR 1-9. These images of the final collapse of WTC 7 from the north, west and south show very extensive buckling of the exterior columns especially near the mid-height of the building. It is simply astounding that, even though these computer generated images of a crumpled and severely distorted Building 7 look nothing like the video images of the real thing, NIST nevertheless concludes: “the global collapse analyses matched the observed behavior reasonably well.”

    5.0 Conclusions

    I believe there are many problems with the material presented in NIST’s Draft WTC 7 Report; most of these problems stem from the fuel loading assumed by NIST but I would add that NIST’s collapse hypothesis is not physically realistic and is not well supported by observations of the behavior of Building 7 during its collapse. I certainly believe that an alternative collapse initiation and propagation hypothesis is called for; an hypothesis that more accurately reflects the reality of what happened to WTC 7 on September 11th 2001."
    Post edited by ryanevolution on
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  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    ryanevolution wrote:
    Facts: 2 Buildings fall at near free fall speed after being hit by airplanes (which they were designed to withstand the impacts of), and a third, non-hit building, is also dropped in a controlled demolition.

    "Inside Job" only means that there had to be people involved inside the building. I have never once drawn a conclusion to "the government" or any individuals.

    All I am looking for is agreement that the must have been explosives inside the building to drop it at that rate. If the floors pancaked as is the official theory, it would have taken over 90 seconds. Even with your time steched "audio" of the collapse it is NOWHERE near 90 seconds.

    It is NOT a fact that these buildings were designed to withstand the impacts of 747s at full throttle.
    It is NOT a fact that the third building is dropped in a controlled demolition.

    I'm suprised more surrounding buildings didnt fall. Did you see how far firey debris sprayed outward?

    I dont think there is ANY history of a building even NEARLY as large as the two towers collapsing or being hit by a missle-like impact of a fully fueled 747 at 400-500 mph, where jet fuel sprayed so far as almost to the ground floor through elevator shafts. Has that happened before, because I sure as hell havent heard about it. 90 seconds, whatever... doesnt tell me anything.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • ryanevolution
    ryanevolution Posts: 782
    90 seconds is how fast the building would have fallen if each floor hit each other on the way down, as is the "official story" of what happened.
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    of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    ryanevolution wrote:
    90 seconds is how fast the building would have fallen if each floor hit each other on the way down, as is the "official story" of what happened.

    Theoretically.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • ryanevolution
    ryanevolution Posts: 782
    No, Physically. By "Physics". If the top floor fell with not a single thing below it. It would hit the ground in about 9 seconds. The entire building fell very close to that. The most conservative estimate putting the collapse near 15 seconds. That is stretching every known audio and physical evidence possible. Which means, the floors did not pancake, they were blown out.
    Evolution Music Studios presents:
    DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
    of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm

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