What's wrong with the US you ask?
Comments
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See here's the hitch and the mischaracterzation you are making a vast over-estimation on. I do not ever expect nor hold ill-will against someone for having different opinions from my own as long as they are based on fact and thought. For example, I do not agree with the likes of Con-Rice regarding many foreign policies, but can respect why she comes to her opinions.
Also, no we'll never be in a perfect place where everything is just and everyone participates as they are supposed to, but to not attempt to get there is an injustice. Content in failure is the greatest failure of all. Things can always get better, and in our society, it's very easy to see people are more interested in selfish behaviors and consumerism than making a better world for themselves or the future's betterment. During the Enlightenment most envisioned a future of grand being, where we as humans build and made improvements for everyone's sake whether it was industry, medicine or whatever the area, but fast forward to our age and you can clearly see that people's greed, self-interest and greed have push aside those values and hopes for their own benefit and status of being content. You can sit here and say all you like that I don't offer plans (which I can, but our society isn't interested in serious change), they'd prefer comfort, which is fine, but don't complain when the house you've ignored is over time breaking down and not the managible any longer as a result of your neglect. Everyone wants everything for nothing.... do nothing, expect nothing. If you have a self-interested lazy population who doesn't participate, that's the kind of government you will have and the results will follow in line. So when I say education and participation, that is what I mean. A system of garbage in, and garbage out... that's our society becuase it's how we've set it up to be and tolerate it to be.CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
FiveB247x wrote:See here's the hitch and the mischaracterzation you are making a vast over-estimation on. I do not ever expect nor hold ill-will against someone for having different opinions from my own as long as they are based on fact and thought. For example, I do not agree with the likes of Con-Rice regarding many foreign policies, but can respect why she comes to her opinions.
Also, no we'll never be in a perfect place where everything is just and everyone participates as they are supposed to, but to not attempt to get there is an injustice. Content in failure is the greatest failure of all. Things can always get better, and in our society, it's very easy to see people are more interested in selfish behaviors and consumerism than making a better world for themselves or the future's betterment. During the Enlightenment most envisioned a future of grand being, where we as humans build and made improvements for everyone's sake whether it was industry, medicine or whatever the area, but fast forward to our age and you can clearly see that people's greed, self-interest and greed have push aside those values and hopes for their own benefit and status of being content. You can sit here and say all you like that I don't offer plans (which I can, but our society isn't interested in serious change), they'd prefer comfort, which is fine, but don't complain when the house you've ignored is over time breaking down and not the managible any longer as a result of your neglect. Everyone wants everything for nothing.... do nothing, expect nothing. If you have a self-interested lazy population who doesn't participate, that's the kind of government you will have and the results will follow in line. So when I say education and participation, that is what I mean. A system of garbage in, and garbage out... that's our society becuase it's how we've set it up to be and tolerate it to be.
tell me, how is one to participate as they are supposed to...?
also, are you telling me greed and self-interest were non-existent during the Enlightenment...?
you claim everyone wants everything for nothing...really...? everyone...? I see you pulled out that huge paintbrush again...
how about this, since you seem to know everything and how to fix society's ills, why don't run for office...? save us from our lazy uneducated selves...
please, before it's too late...0 -
this is a great thread that highlights what is really happening ...
i think it can easily be argued and articulated that there is a lot wrong with the US ... the issue boils down to this: does anyone really care?
does anyone truly care that innocent people die due to US actions? that people will be displaced because of global climate change (where the US is the 2nd biggest polluter)? that large corporations take advantage of their power and influence that ultimately impacts many people's persoanl wealth?
i think the glaring answer is NO0 -
Firstly, Polaris thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I elluded to what you expounded upon, but in the end, I believe this is why nothing changes - no one cares to put in the effort and would rather pass the buck.
Secondly, greed and self-interest will never go away, but how much more do we see on the rise has it been through the decades to where we see it now? It's ever-growing to the point that our nation is screwed up beyond simply repair by changing elected officials in office. Think about that for a moment, it's quite astonishing if you really think about it.
Thirdly, no one wants to be bothered to fix our problems. We allow our government to overspend in whatever manner or cause, yet don't want to be taxed. We consume, waste and destroy the evironment, yet don't want to cut back to help repair or alter our destruction so it can rejuvinate for the future. Our habits as a society are similar to a massively overweight person complaining bout their weight, yet refusing to diet or exercise to fix the problem. No effort, no time, don't bother me, not in my back yard, pass the buck... Collectively as a society these are our mantra's through practice and habit.inmytree wrote:tell me, how is one to participate as they are supposed to...?
also, are you telling me greed and self-interest were non-existent during the Enlightenment...?
you claim everyone wants everything for nothing...really...? everyone...? I see you pulled out that huge paintbrush again...
how about this, since you seem to know everything and how to fix society's ills, why don't run for office...? save us from our lazy uneducated selves...
please, before it's too late...CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
polaris_x wrote:this is a great thread that highlights what is really happening ...
i think it can easily be argued and articulated that there is a lot wrong with the US ... the issue boils down to this: does anyone really care?
does anyone truly care that innocent people die due to US actions? that people will be displaced because of global climate change (where the US is the 2nd biggest polluter)? that large corporations take advantage of their power and influence that ultimately impacts many people's persoanl wealth?
i think the glaring answer is NO
it's hard to care, because we all have our own shit to deal with, and changing the world seems to be pretty damn impossible. maybe we're just too much like the apes to change our ways. basically, if you participate in society, even just by buying a cup of coffee, you are supporting systems of oppression. so what can we do? either live off the grid somehow or not care.
damn you moving train for making me think about these things... now i have to somehow go back to not caring!0 -
FiveB247x wrote:Firstly, Polaris thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I elluded to what you expounded upon, but in the end, I believe this is why nothing changes - no one cares to put in the effort and would rather pass the buck.
Secondly, greed and self-interest will never go away, but how much more do we see on the rise has it been through the decades to where we see it now? It's ever-growing to the point that our nation is screwed up beyond simply repair by changing elected officials in office. Think about that for a moment, it's quite astonishing if you really think about it.
Thirdly, no one wants to be bothered to fix our problems. We allow our government to overspend in whatever manner or cause, yet don't want to be taxed. We consume, waste and destroy the evironment, yet don't want to cut back to help repair or alter our destruction so it can rejuvinate for the future. Our habits as a society are similar to a massively overweight person complaining bout their weight, yet refusing to diet or exercise to fix the problem. No effort, no time, don't bother me, not in my back yard, pass the buck... Collectively as a society these are our mantra's through practice and habit.inmytree wrote:tell me, how is one to participate as they are supposed to...?
also, are you telling me greed and self-interest were non-existent during the Enlightenment...?
you claim everyone wants everything for nothing...really...? everyone...? I see you pulled out that huge paintbrush again...
how about this, since you seem to know everything and how to fix society's ills, why don't run for office...? save us from our lazy uneducated selves...
please, before it's too late...
can you ever answer a question or do you just go into soliloquy mode...?
seriously, you act as if "change" happens overnight, with the snap of finger, with the waving of a magic wand...the US has changed, and changed for the better...
Heck, 90 years ago, women were granted the right to vote...
55 years ago segregation ended...
45 years ago all finally have equal rights...
39 years ago the EPA was created...
As of January 1st 2010, all restaurants and bars in North Carolina will be smoke free...activists have been pushing this years...
my point is this, Change takes time...as of June 2008 there were 304,059,724 people in the US...that's a lot of people and ideas...it's not like everyone everywhere is going to believe the same thing at the same time...0 -
I've lived in a couple of places around the world, and I can tell you one thing...
This is the best thing going.......sorry.BRING BACK THE WHALE0 -
Kenny Olav wrote:it's hard to care, because we all have our own shit to deal with, and changing the world seems to be pretty damn impossible. maybe we're just too much like the apes to change our ways. basically, if you participate in society, even just by buying a cup of coffee, you are supporting systems of oppression. so what can we do? either live off the grid somehow or not care.
damn you moving train for making me think about these things... now i have to somehow go back to not caring!
yes ... it seems daunting ... but just caring makes a huge difference ... if everyone cared as much as you - i'm pretty sure we'd have a much better world ...0 -
OffHeGoes29 wrote:I've lived in a couple of places around the world, and I can tell you one thing...
This is the best thing going.......sorry.
what makes it the best thing going?0 -
Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.inmytree wrote:can you ever answer a question or do you just go into soliloquy mode...?
seriously, you act as if "change" happens overnight, with the snap of finger, with the waving of a magic wand...the US has changed, and changed for the better...
Heck, 90 years ago, women were granted the right to vote...
55 years ago segregation ended...
45 years ago all finally have equal rights...
39 years ago the EPA was created...
As of January 1st 2010, all restaurants and bars in North Carolina will be smoke free...activists have been pushing this years...
my point is this, Change takes time...as of June 2008 there were 304,059,724 people in the US...that's a lot of people and ideas...it's not like everyone everywhere is going to believe the same thing at the same time...CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
There are people who are trying to promote change outside the booth.FiveB247x wrote:Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1191590 -
FiveB247x wrote:Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.inmytree wrote:can you ever answer a question or do you just go into soliloquy mode...?
seriously, you act as if "change" happens overnight, with the snap of finger, with the waving of a magic wand...the US has changed, and changed for the better...
Heck, 90 years ago, women were granted the right to vote...
55 years ago segregation ended...
45 years ago all finally have equal rights...
39 years ago the EPA was created...
As of January 1st 2010, all restaurants and bars in North Carolina will be smoke free...activists have been pushing this years...
my point is this, Change takes time...as of June 2008 there were 304,059,724 people in the US...that's a lot of people and ideas...it's not like everyone everywhere is going to believe the same thing at the same time...
I guess we are all doomed....oh well, at least Jersey Shore starts tonight in MTV...0 -
polaris_x wrote:OffHeGoes29 wrote:I've lived in a couple of places around the world, and I can tell you one thing...
This is the best thing going.......sorry.
what makes it the best thing going?
Best thing going for people here who like "living the American dream". There isn't anything wrong with Canada or Europe, or anywhere else, but for the MAJORITY of American's (I have to stress this, because not every one wants to live this way, but most of America does) there is no other place that makes it possible. Like I have said before, there isn't anything wrong with how Europe or Canada or Whoville does things, because its the best system for them and their people. Most of you on the board aren't the norm here in the states, and while most of you would be happy with living in "utopia" ......most of American's aren't.
You're a small majority of the voting population, so its going to take some time to subscrib to the things people want on this board.
Some of the most patriotic people I've ever met are immigrents here in the states. The US is still the number one spot for immigration, and there is a reason for it.
I've seen some really beautiful places and met some really nice people in my life travelling the world. But for a specific way of living, this is it. And most of America is pretty happy chasing that dream, you don't have to like it, its the way it is. Don't be pissed at me, I don't live the "American Dream", you're family, coworkers, and neighbors do.BRING BACK THE WHALE0 -
inmytree wrote:I guess we are all doomed....oh well, at least Jersey Shore starts tonight in MTV...
It sure does. Watch out for "Snooki." She dated one of my best friends for a very long time.
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OffHeGoes29 wrote:Best thing going for people here who like "living the American dream". There isn't anything wrong with Canada or Europe, or anywhere else, but for the MAJORITY of American's (I have to stress this, because not every one wants to live this way, but most of America does) there is no other place that makes it possible. Like I have said before, there isn't anything wrong with how Europe or Canada or Whoville does things, because its the best system for them and their people. Most of you on the board aren't the norm here in the states, and while most of you would be happy with living in "utopia" ......most of American's aren't.
You're a small majority of the voting population, so its going to take some time to subscrib to the things people want on this board.
Some of the most patriotic people I've ever met are immigrents here in the states. The US is still the number one spot for immigration, and there is a reason for it.
I've seen some really beautiful places and met some really nice people in my life travelling the world. But for a specific way of living, this is it. And most of America is pretty happy chasing that dream, you don't have to like it, its the way it is. Don't be pissed at me, I don't live the "American Dream", you're family, coworkers, and neighbors do.
uhhh ... i am not the least bit pissed at you or anyone you know ... it was a simple question which if i'm reading correctly is that it's the best thing for you and the people you know because of the "american dream" ...
is it safe to say that it is the ability to get a job and accumulate wealth to buy things and the freedom to do so that qualifies as the american dream?0 -
no, our society is still like this, but you've got the same myopia every generation does... your challenges are the biggest, the enemies the toughest, and the whole thing's going to hell in a hand basket. the problem is this is the internet/add generation. sustained ever to see change over decades is not for us. we want instananeous gratification becos that's what we're used to, and when we don't get it, we whine over how impossibly hard everything is. suck it up man. until you're getting blasted with fire hoses, don't complain about how impossible it is to change things. you've barely made an effort so far.FiveB247x wrote:Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.0 -
Yes somethings change over time and some do not. I feel the inherint problems that plague our society are only getting worse over time and people's interest in fixing them grows smaller and smaller. And yes there's plenty of good people in this world who want to fix things and make it a better place for all, but as the saying goes, a few bad apples spoil the bunch. I think our system is broken beyond repair and the people aren't involved nor care enough to fix it. It's certainly not a case of things being the toughest or anything similar, but I think the caliber of people in society has so greatly deminished, it's more than unlikely we'll see the change we all need or care for. Some may call me a cynic or negative or skeptical, but I don't view the world in "what ifs" or through delusions and illusions.soulsinging wrote:
no, our society is still like this, but you've got the same myopia every generation does... your challenges are the biggest, the enemies the toughest, and the whole thing's going to hell in a hand basket. the problem is this is the internet/add generation. sustained ever to see change over decades is not for us. we want instananeous gratification becos that's what we're used to, and when we don't get it, we whine over how impossibly hard everything is. suck it up man. until you're getting blasted with fire hoses, don't complain about how impossible it is to change things. you've barely made an effort so far.FiveB247x wrote:Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
Funny you tell me how my response does not have anything to do with the subject......Jeanwah wrote:
I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
Because when i have asked you simple questions .....
What is it that we need to protest about??
What is is exactly that wants people like you to revolt??
What is so wrong with the USA that you want to start a revolution??
You gave me some strange answer about Television and twitter.......Then you mentioned someting about police firing the shots and starting all the violence......Take me piece by piece.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....0 -
SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
Funny you tell me how my response does not have anything to do with the subject......Jeanwah wrote:
I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
Because when i have asked you simple questions .....
What is it that we need to protest about??
What is is exactly that wants people like you to revolt??
What is so wrong with the USA that you want to start a revolution??
You gave me some strange answer about Television and twitter.......Then you mentioned someting about police firing the shots and starting all the violence......
she did answer youWhy not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit?
although, you may want to reword your second question.don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
So you are telling me...Pepe Silvia wrote:SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
Funny you tell me how my response does not have anything to do with the subject......Jeanwah wrote:
I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
Because when i have asked you simple questions .....
What is it that we need to protest about??
What is is exactly that wants people like you to revolt??
What is so wrong with the USA that you want to start a revolution??
You gave me some strange answer about Television and twitter.......Then you mentioned someting about police firing the shots and starting all the violence......
she did answer youWhy not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit?
although, you may want to reword your second question.
That the reason we are supposed to get together and revolt.....
Is because the world is going to shit??? And our leaders are screwing us?????
Thats it???
Thats all you have for me????
I have a feeling not many people are going to join the revolution.....Take me piece by piece.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....0
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