I completely disagree. Some problems can be solved by the singular, you or I, the one's I've discussed are not, they are large scale issues which need large scale government and mass movement type reaction to fix...and we have neither. You driving a low gas gusling car won't fix the emisions problems, but the government can pass laws to curb everyone's emissions... big difference.
that's what's been boggling my mind this whole time... how can he not see that the stuff he's posting here makes him exactly like all of the people he is complaining about? "it's too hard to change anything without an army of people, so i wont even try to change or inspire said army of people."
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I completely disagree. Some problems can be solved by the singular, you or I, the one's I've discussed are not, they are large scale issues which need large scale government and mass movement type reaction to fix...and we have neither. You driving a low gas gusling car won't fix the emisions problems, but the government can pass laws to curb everyone's emissions... big difference.
that's what's been boggling my mind this whole time... how can he not see that the stuff he's posting here makes him exactly like all of the people he is complaining about? "it's too hard to change anything without an army of people, so i wont even try to change or inspire said army of people."
A mass movement starts with a leader. You don't realize this? One person. You want to curb emissions? Start with YOU. Drive less, and live a greener life. It all starts with you, man.
We're having a circular arguement now. Yes a mass movement starts with a leader, but with no masses, its no movement... As a whole, our nation doesn't care, so you can do as you please, but it's not necessarily influencial to the masses. It's singular.
A mass movement starts with a leader. You don't realize this? One person.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yet, again, I didn't ask you for reality, I asked you what you're going to do about solving it. YOU. I don't want to hear that you think it'll take a whole village of people, because that's brushing it off and saying it's "not my fault". Solving problems start with ONE PERSON. Be that person and come up with solutions rather than saying collectively we need to do something. Lead the way rather than sitting back and saying it's everyone else problem.
that's what's been boggling my mind this whole time... how can he not see that the stuff he's posting here makes him exactly like all of the people he is complaining about? "it's too hard to change anything without an army of people, so i wont even try to change or inspire said army of people."
All I can think of is "It's not my responsibility!" That's what he's about. Prove us wrong FiveB247, if you don't like it. Take responsibility...and run with it.
That's pretty funny, cause you're simply proving my point. It's my fault for pointing out the things we could change and aren't, and somehow it's my singular responsibility to fix it for everyone? I do plenty to do my part, but with that stated, our nation as a whole doesn't do diddly and give a crap, yet you question my motives, moral and character for accepting and acknowledging certain unworthy traits and lack of responsibility by our nations citizens. Point the finger elsewhere, that's another one of our mantra's. Just as it is not your singluar fault for the environmental destruction going on in the world as a result of our nations policies and actions, we collectively are responsible for them. So if collectively in our nation, if people throw caution to doing their part, that's the kind of results you'll get..and when you look around, it's everywhere.
All I can think of is "It's not my responsibility!" That's what he's about. Prove us wrong FiveB247, if you don't like it. Take responsibility...and run with it.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
That's pretty funny, cause you're simply proving my point. It's my fault for pointing out the things we could change and aren't, and somehow it's my singular responsibility to fix it for everyone? I do plenty to do my part, but with that stated, our nation as a whole doesn't do diddly and give a crap, yet you question my motives, moral and character for accepting and acknowledging certain unworthy traits and lack of responsibility by our nations citizens. Point the finger elsewhere, that's another one of our mantra's. Just as it is not your singluar fault for the environmental destruction going on in the world as a result of our nations policies and actions, we collectively are responsible for them. So if collectively in our nation, if people throw caution to doing their part, that's the kind of results you'll get..and when you look around, it's everywhere.
All I can think of is "It's not my responsibility!" That's what he's about. Prove us wrong FiveB247, if you don't like it. Take responsibility...and run with it.
But YOU have to the power to change. Change yourself, because you can't change other people. You can only persuade them. Yet you'd rather just talk about everyone else rather than actually doing your part. The only way to change the world is to take it in your own hands. Stop saying it's everyone else not playing the game, when you're not playing it either.
1- You're making a large assumption about what I do or do not do. Yet you also give a pass to the vast majority in our nation who do nothing, don't vote, don't stay informed and it's arguable if they care because actions show they do not.
2- Yes somethings are possible to change on a personal level, but large-scale issues like the ones I've mentioned are not. Our system is broken and we don't have backing to seriously take the steps necessary to alter it. People are either ill-informed about issues or don't care to involve themselves or fix the problems. Sure I can volunteer at a soup kitchen and it may make a small bit of good, but my singular activity isn't going to solve the real issue of hunger and homelessness or poverty is it? Fact is, these problems require fixing from the top down, unless a mass movement fixes them...and our masses don't care. I look around my society and don't see hope for the better... maybe you do, but I do not. I see things progressively getting worse and worse over time, which statistics have shown and just because the majority are better here than elsewhere, doesn't mean it's to be well received, emulated or applauded.
But YOU have to the power to change. Change yourself, because you can't change other people. You can only persuade them. Yet you'd rather just talk about everyone else rather than actually doing your part. The only way to change the world is to take it in your own hands. Stop saying it's everyone else not playing the game, when you're not playing it either.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
We're having a circular arguement now. Yes a mass movement starts with a leader, but with no masses, its no movement... As a whole, our nation doesn't care, so you can do as you please, but it's not necessarily influencial to the masses. It's singular.
A mass movement starts with a leader. You don't realize this? One person.
mass movement starts with a conversation, not a leader.
martin luther king didn't one day decide change history, it took 200 years of oppression before he was even able to change anything.
that's where this movement is now. we are still discussing and informing. and when enough people realize there is something terrible wrong with our society, it will change.
Well Commy perhaps your correct on that matter, but I think people are becoming more polar in thoughts and opinions. People are more likely to not find common ground for everyone's well being compared to simply arguing about mish-mosh to prove some idiotic point or make their side look right.
martin luther king didn't one day decide change history, it took 200 years of oppression before he was even able to change anything.
that's where this movement is now. we are still discussing and informing. and when enough people realize there is something terrible wrong with our society, it will change.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I completely disagree. Some problems can be solved by the singular, you or I, the one's I've discussed are not, they are large scale issues which need large scale government and mass movement type reaction to fix...and we have neither. You driving a low gas gusling car won't fix the emisions problems, but the government can pass laws to curb everyone's emissions... big difference.
that's what's been boggling my mind this whole time... how can he not see that the stuff he's posting here makes him exactly like all of the people he is complaining about? "it's too hard to change anything without an army of people, so i wont even try to change or inspire said army of people."
yet you're not willing to make any efforts to start or lead such a mass movement, yet you demand that all of us join in. i suspect the real source of your cynicism and bitterness is simply that you know, deep down, that even if you did make such efforts, you would find most of the country unwilling to join you not out of apathy but simply becos they disagree with what you propose to do. it's the delusion of all liberals... that everyone really thinks like them if they only knew more. they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that a lot of people don't want the kinds of reforms and efforts you're talking about in here.
Once again, you're alluding or making a poor attempt to make some psychological analysis of me and quite frankly I find it humorous and in a sad way towards you. I've said before and will repeat again, I don't need re-affirmation of my beliefs or opinions. But let me ask you this.. .what kind of nation are we or what kind of people are you truly defending or allowing a pass too? Are things like homelessness, poverty, healthcare, environment and education truly political issues? They may be abused and thrown into the political debate and used as tools by each side of the political spectrum, but in all honesty, what kind of people are we if we don't attempt to always promote the benefits of these for all (whether home or abroad)? Says alot about our nation, and the fact that you attempt to paint some ridiculous potrait of me and my beliefs, actions or similar is merely a pathetic attempt to avoid discussing the reality of our society and what a sad state of affairs we really face. And that's something you've yet to acknowledge... instead you make a poor attempt to point the finger back at me. Believe me, I do and have done plenty, yet you ask me how come I'm not the savior, while not accepting the masses who do nothing and are a great cause of our national disconnect.
yet you're not willing to make any efforts to start or lead such a mass movement, yet you demand that all of us join in. i suspect the real source of your cynicism and bitterness is simply that you know, deep down, that even if you did make such efforts, you would find most of the country unwilling to join you not out of apathy but simply becos they disagree with what you propose to do. it's the delusion of all liberals... that everyone really thinks like them if they only knew more. they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that a lot of people don't want the kinds of reforms and efforts you're talking about in here.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
We're having a circular arguement now. Yes a mass movement starts with a leader, but with no masses, its no movement... As a whole, our nation doesn't care, so you can do as you please, but it's not necessarily influencial to the masses. It's singular.
Once again, you're alluding or making a poor attempt to make some psychological analysis of me and quite frankly I find it humorous and in a sad way towards you. I've said before and will repeat again, I don't need re-affirmation of my beliefs or opinions. But let me ask you this.. .what kind of nation are we or what kind of people are you truly defending or allowing a pass too? Are things like homelessness, poverty, healthcare, environment and education truly political issues? They may be abused and thrown into the political debate and used as tools by each side of the political spectrum, but in all honesty, what kind of people are we if we don't attempt to always promote the benefits of these for all (whether home or abroad)? Says alot about our nation, and the fact that you attempt to paint some ridiculous potrait of me and my beliefs, actions or similar is merely a pathetic attempt to avoid discussing the reality of our society and what a sad state of affairs we really face. And that's something you've yet to acknowledge... instead you make a poor attempt to point the finger back at me. Believe me, I do and have done plenty, yet you ask me how come I'm not the savior, while not accepting the masses who do nothing and are a great cause of our national disconnect.
i dont avoid discussing it, i've said many times i don't think things are really that bad here. no worse than at any other point in human history. and as to what it says about our country... check out the ayn rand thread. i'm not a subscriber to her views, but there are plenty of people especially in america that would say your list of evils doesn't say anything bad about us as a country and that there is plenty of value in the american love of individualism, even if it means a lot of people are going to be at a disadvantage. there's nothing inherently wrong or immoral or insae about that position, as you seem to think.
It has zero to do with me or anyone else unwilling to lead. If there's no army, a general really isn't a general, is he?
Also, you seem to discount the fact or easily accept because people are comfortable or don't have issue with things being out of whack, then that's ok. A huge underestimation of the pysche of the nation... it's no different from saying, racism is ok cause it doesn't effect me and it only effects a small group of people, so people are entitled to that thought process. If that's a willing mentality in society as we accept as a norm, that's simply sad. There's nothing more pathetic than the acceptance of failure, wrong-doing, mediocrity or similar and that's exactly what you're defending or people in our nation are ok with.
and you are unwilling to lead. so stop whining about other people being equally unwilling to take that stand.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what is wrong with america is that we have a section of morons in our population that believes that obama was born in kenya. that says a TON about the intellect of some in this country.... :oops:
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
what is wrong with america is that we have a section of morons in our population that believes that obama was born in kenya. that says a TON about the intellect of some in this country.... :oops:
You would think the country of Kenya would be able to step forward with something because how often is a woman from Kansas, USA gives birth in their country????
Just a thought.
peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
That the reason we are supposed to get together and revolt.....
Is because the world is going to shit??? And our leaders are screwing us?????
Thats it???
Thats all you have for me????
I have a feeling not many people are going to join the revolution.....
what would it take for you to revolt?
Speedy???
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
what is wrong with america is that we have a section of morons in our population that believes that obama was born in kenya. that says a TON about the intellect of some in this country.... :oops:
You would think the country of Kenya would be able to step forward with something because how often is a woman from Kansas, USA gives birth in their country????
Or even better yet, why does anyone or any other nation have to step up to discuss something so stupid as this? What does Kenya give a crap if some Americans hate their leader and are so blinded by partisan politics so much as to question things like citizenship? Not every dumb question deserves a response.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Information flow is accelerating and accelerating information flow leads to fractal functions, according to the mathematician Theordore Gordon. Fractal functions are always unpredictable.
Everything is getting more and more unpredictable and that looks spooky to people (the unpredictable tends to spook all mammals). Unable to grasp what is happening, most domesticated primates feel threatened and look around for some "Evil Force" to blame. Everyone is convinced it is "us and them" (thanks P Floyd). This reptilian way of thinking, conspiracy theories, etc, will continue to proliferate as long as acceleration does not include an acceleration of general education. Then we'll have more understanding (science) and less demonology (conspiracy theories).
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
what is wrong with america is that we have a section of morons in our population that believes that obama was born in kenya. that says a TON about the intellect of some in this country.... :oops:
You would think the country of Kenya would be able to step forward with something because how often is a woman from Kansas, USA gives birth in their country????
Just a thought.
peace
I somehow doubt they have good record keeping
is there anything other than a newspaper announcement that leads to this theory of him being born in Kenya? i'm not talking about Obama not showing the proper papers but something actual and seen? while i haven't really looked into it the only things i've ever heard as 'proof' is that newspaper announcement and Obama not showing a satisfactory certificate
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
2- Yes somethings are possible to change on a personal level, but large-scale issues like the ones I've mentioned are not. Our system is broken and we don't have backing to seriously take the steps necessary to alter it. People are either ill-informed about issues or don't care to involve themselves or fix the problems. Sure I can volunteer at a soup kitchen and it may make a small bit of good, but my singular activity isn't going to solve the real issue of hunger and homelessness or poverty is it? Fact is, these problems require fixing from the top down, unless a mass movement fixes them...and our masses don't care. I look around my society and don't see hope for the better... maybe you do, but I do not. I see things progressively getting worse and worse over time, which statistics have shown and just because the majority are better here than elsewhere, doesn't mean it's to be well received, emulated or applauded.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
martin luther king didn't one day decide change history, it took 200 years of oppression before he was even able to change anything.
that's where this movement is now. we are still discussing and informing. and when enough people realize there is something terrible wrong with our society, it will change.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
yet you're not willing to make any efforts to start or lead such a mass movement, yet you demand that all of us join in. i suspect the real source of your cynicism and bitterness is simply that you know, deep down, that even if you did make such efforts, you would find most of the country unwilling to join you not out of apathy but simply becos they disagree with what you propose to do. it's the delusion of all liberals... that everyone really thinks like them if they only knew more. they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that a lot of people don't want the kinds of reforms and efforts you're talking about in here.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
and you are unwilling to lead. so stop whining about other people being equally unwilling to take that stand.
i dont avoid discussing it, i've said many times i don't think things are really that bad here. no worse than at any other point in human history. and as to what it says about our country... check out the ayn rand thread. i'm not a subscriber to her views, but there are plenty of people especially in america that would say your list of evils doesn't say anything bad about us as a country and that there is plenty of value in the american love of individualism, even if it means a lot of people are going to be at a disadvantage. there's nothing inherently wrong or immoral or insae about that position, as you seem to think.
Also, you seem to discount the fact or easily accept because people are comfortable or don't have issue with things being out of whack, then that's ok. A huge underestimation of the pysche of the nation... it's no different from saying, racism is ok cause it doesn't effect me and it only effects a small group of people, so people are entitled to that thought process. If that's a willing mentality in society as we accept as a norm, that's simply sad. There's nothing more pathetic than the acceptance of failure, wrong-doing, mediocrity or similar and that's exactly what you're defending or people in our nation are ok with.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
You would think the country of Kenya would be able to step forward with something because how often is a woman from Kansas, USA gives birth in their country????
Just a thought.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Speedy???
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I somehow doubt they have good record keeping
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Information flow is accelerating and accelerating information flow leads to fractal functions, according to the mathematician Theordore Gordon. Fractal functions are always unpredictable.
Everything is getting more and more unpredictable and that looks spooky to people (the unpredictable tends to spook all mammals). Unable to grasp what is happening, most domesticated primates feel threatened and look around for some "Evil Force" to blame. Everyone is convinced it is "us and them" (thanks P Floyd). This reptilian way of thinking, conspiracy theories, etc, will continue to proliferate as long as acceleration does not include an acceleration of general education. Then we'll have more understanding (science) and less demonology (conspiracy theories).
is there anything other than a newspaper announcement that leads to this theory of him being born in Kenya? i'm not talking about Obama not showing the proper papers but something actual and seen? while i haven't really looked into it the only things i've ever heard as 'proof' is that newspaper announcement and Obama not showing a satisfactory certificate
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'