What's wrong with the US you ask?

VINNY GOOMBA

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

In the end, vote, or don't vote, your input is insignifcant. The owners of this nation run the show, lobbying, media, politicians, the military industrial complex... we're all just pawns in their world.

With that kind of attitude, we'll never have a revolution. I'd like to keep some kind of hope that it will happen some day. The day they take all of our Televisions away.

Hi Jeanwah....

I have a question....


When you speak of revolution and revolt....

What exactly are you talking about??

What would YOU have in mind, as far as the perfect revolution????

I am just curious...

Before shots get fired, I'd love to see one giant statement made by the American people as a collective. It would require each and every one of us to put all partisanship aside completely, and it has to be incredibly simple and catchy since most of the voting public really firmly believe that they only have 2 options at the polls, and probably can't name their representatives.

Without knowing exaclty how, or why, I think we can all agree that we are getting screwed, and that it's coming at the hands of almost all or our elected officials.

2010 we vote all encumbants out, plain and simple. Where I'm divided is whether we take a GIANT step and try and get everyone to support a third party, maybe even a third party with no real platform other than they are simply not democrat or republican? Or, we just stick with the "two" parties and vote opposite of whoever the encumbant is. What does that require? It requires 1 minute of research prior to the 2010 election to simply know who your rep is, and if he or she is running again to simply vote against him or her through the other major party. A 100% turnover in the House of Representatives may actually send the message to Washington that this is, in fact, their final warning.

I like the Third Party idea, personally. No one can claim it has a bias. No one can ask "WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE REPUBLICANS HAD THE CONGRESS?"

It's time we took the stance that they should ALL be fired, for their collective failure across the board. I can't think of a bigger, and more threatening statement to make to the people in power, without use of actual force.

FiveB247x

I'm all for the main facets and ideals our nation was founded upon or hoped for, but in all honesty, our nation was founded on hypocrisy. White land owners who didn't want to pay taxes to a King, started their own nation while claiming equality and liberty, except for women, indians and blacks. We don't want to give up power and finance to a king, let's setup or own system in which we can benefit instead and be on our own. Power is merely a means to an end, and in that lay the founding of our nation.

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

It depends on which founding father, really. Most of them would have gotten out of the time machine, taken it all in for a couple of weeks, and promptly proceeded to either kill themselves, or to take the same time machine back to pre-Boston Tea Party and cancelled the whole thing. Why have all the bloodshed if they knew for sure that the empire was going to win eventually anyway-- which they have figured out if they saw America 2009.

Other interesting points:

-Some would have gotten nauseous at the idea of a black president.
-Some would have loved that he got elected as a sign of progress for those of the founders who truly believed that "all men were created equal," but probably would have hated his policies.
-Some would have tried to toke up right on the street and would have been absolutely confused why they were being arrested for it.
-Some would have probably shot the cop that tried to have tried to take his gun away for not having a permit to carry that gun.
-Some would probably be high-fiving Cindy Sheehan and would be along side her and groups like Code Pink.
-Some probably wouldn't be caught dead protesting with women.
-Just about all of them would be considered domestic terrorists or enemy combatants, and would probably be held in Guantanamo Bay, next to members of Al-Queada.

Regardless, we as free individuals have no reason not to back the principles and rights as stated in the Constitution when we truly apply it to all people. We have everything to gain, and nothing to lose if we try and restore our Republic with liberty and justice for ALL.

inmytree

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

I have a feeling that 90% of the people in the USA. are perfectly happy and content with their lives......and see no reason for revolt........

Sure things could be better for some....I get that.....But if they are unhappy with their situation, I think they can look in the mirror to find out what their problems are......

But overall.....I think most people are happy with their lives......

exactly...

I don't get this "everyone should educate themselves" thing...maybe they have and they are fine...

I do find it interesting that some complain and offer nothing but complaints...

This "woe is me" gets old...if you don't like your life, do something about it...

SPEEDY MCCREADY

inmytree wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

I have a feeling that 90% of the people in the USA. are perfectly happy and content with their lives......and see no reason for revolt........

Sure things could be better for some....I get that.....But if they are unhappy with their situation, I think they can look in the mirror to find out what their problems are......

But overall.....I think most people are happy with their lives......

exactly...

I don't get this "everyone should educate themselves" thing...maybe they have and they are fine...

I do find it interesting that some complain and offer nothing but complaints...

This "woe is me" gets old...if you don't like your life, do something about it...

I have been here for an hour....

I still dont know why I am supposed to take to the streets and revolt.....

This weekend I can revolt....

Or I can go grocery shopping, buy a Christmas Tree, and watch some football with my father.....

It is going to be a tough decision.....

FiveB247x

The entire basis of the conversation is the fact that our nation is not educated and makes uninformed decisions and then doesn't stay active enough to participate in the discussion and accountability after the fact to keep our system and government in check. Just cause people are "happy" doesn't reflect a good situation to be emulated. An alcoholic is happy when they're drinking and drunk, but I'd hardly say it's productive and beneficial or something that doesn't need rectifying - correct?

inmytree wrote:

exactly...

I don't get this "everyone should educate themselves" thing...maybe they have and they are fine...

I do find it interesting that some complain and offer nothing but complaints...

This "woe is me" gets old...if you don't like your life, do something about it...

soulsinging

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

But what is it that we are revolting against???

What is it that makes you want to hit the streets in protest???

What is so wrong with life here in the USA, that we need to revolt???

nothing. that's why i haven't done shit

and who said anything about nukes? i don't wanna nuke dc, i wanna be tearing it down with my bare hands!

SPEEDY MCCREADY

soulsinging wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

But what is it that we are revolting against???

What is it that makes you want to hit the streets in protest???

What is so wrong with life here in the USA, that we need to revolt???

nothing. that's why i haven't done shit

and who said anything about nukes? i don't wanna nuke dc, i wanna be tearing it down with my bare hands!

I am going to use YOU, Conor as an example....hope you dont mind...

YOU as an individual....

YOU have gone out and gotten one of the finest educations money can buy....
You have gotten yourself a nice job.....

I see YOU in the near future, buying a house....
BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE WISE DECISIONS IN LIFE......
BECAUSE YOU WILL MAKE WISE DECISIONS WITH YOUR MONEY.....
BECAUSE YOU DO NOT DEPEND ON ANYONE........
BECAUSE YOU WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN FUTURE..........

Which is why you have no reason to protest....or revolt....

inmytree

FiveB247x wrote:

The entire basis of the conversation is the fact that our nation is not educated and makes uninformed decisions and then doesn't stay active enough to participate in the discussion and accountability after the fact to keep our system and government in check. Just cause people are "happy" doesn't reflect a good situation to be emulated. An alcoholic is happy when they're drinking and drunk, but I'd hardly say it's productive and beneficial or something that doesn't need rectifying - correct?

inmytree wrote:

exactly...

I don't get this "everyone should educate themselves" thing...maybe they have and they are fine...

I do find it interesting that some complain and offer nothing but complaints...

This "woe is me" gets old...if you don't like your life, do something about it...

you keep saying our nation is "uneducated and uninformed"...what's your evidence...? you seem to be using a very big paint brush here...

you speak in broad, general terms and offer nothing outside of complaints...

FiveB247x

What you are merely explaining is that if someone doesn't think government and politics directly effects them, then somehow it makes it ok for that person to tune out what the politics, policies and actions of the government are. That is not acceptable behavior in our system. If the citizens aren't active and turn a blind eye to the smallest or largest thing, they aren't doing their job in our system and as a result, it will, over time, result in what we are seeing now - a government that doesn't have to or need to answer to the citizens because it's primarily run by it's own devices and in bed with big business.

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

But what is it that we are revolting against???

What is it that makes you want to hit the streets in protest???

What is so wrong with life here in the USA, that we need to revolt???

nothing. that's why i haven't done shit

and who said anything about nukes? i don't wanna nuke dc, i wanna be tearing it down with my bare hands!

I am going to use YOU, Conor as an example....hope you dont mind...

YOU as an individual....

YOU have gone out and gotten one of the finest educations money can buy....
You have gotten yourself a nice job.....

I see YOU in the near future, buying a house....
BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE WISE DECISIONS IN LIFE......
BECAUSE YOU WILL MAKE WISE DECISIONS WITH YOUR MONEY.....
BECAUSE YOU DO NOT DEPEND ON ANYONE........
BECAUSE YOU WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN FUTURE..........

Which is why you have no reason to protest....or revolt....

FiveB247x

Unless we're merely attempting to create a vast amount of low level minimum wage workers, who can't think for themselves and even at best case scenario are taught a skwed version of history in order to make patriotic dulldrums, then yes our education system is wonderful.

inmytree wrote:

you keep saying our nation is "uneducated and uninformed"...what's your evidence...? you seem to be using a very big paint brush here...

you speak in broad, general terms and offer nothing outside of complaints...

Jeanwah

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

But what is it that we are revolting against???

What is it that makes you want to hit the streets in protest???

What is so wrong with life here in the USA, that we need to revolt???

nothing. that's why i haven't done shit

and who said anything about nukes? i don't wanna nuke dc, i wanna be tearing it down with my bare hands!

I am going to use YOU, Conor as an example....hope you dont mind...

YOU as an individual....

YOU have gone out and gotten one of the finest educations money can buy....
You have gotten yourself a nice job.....

I see YOU in the near future, buying a house....
BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE WISE DECISIONS IN LIFE......
BECAUSE YOU WILL MAKE WISE DECISIONS WITH YOUR MONEY.....
BECAUSE YOU DO NOT DEPEND ON ANYONE........
BECAUSE YOU WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN FUTURE..........

Which is why you have no reason to protest....or revolt....

I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?

I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?

kenny olav

Any revolution is dead in the water, because there are not enough sane people who would want to organize one. Systems of power haven't changed too much over the centuries... they've just become smarter. The founding fathers purposely set up a system that would benefit the wealthy land owners, and though our government has gradually become more democratized (remember, for most of our history, Senators were not elected by popular vote), the democratic process has also become more intelligently manipulated, mainly through the mass media, which has direct connections to government.

There are plenty of reasons to revolt. Billions, and I suppose its fair to say, trillions of tax dollars are being misused. Our money is being used to keep violent, corrupt dictatorships in power, so that we can have not just reliable sources of oil but a whole slew of commodities, products and services that are sold to us at cheaper prices than a fair labor value would provide. Most wealthy people don't become wealthy simply because they worked hard, but because they took advantage of corrupt systems that dehumanize, and far too often, kill. But they/we don't have to see that, or think about it, because it usually happens on the other side of the world.

There are far more reasons for non-Americans to revolt against the U.S. government than there are for Americans, who by and large are happy with their lives and have plenty of distractions from the things that make them unhappy. And they have pills. Lots and lots of happy pills.

inmytree

FiveB247x wrote:

Unless we're merely attempting to create a vast amount of low level minimum wage workers, who can't think for themselves and even at best case scenario are taught a skwed version of history in order to make patriotic dulldrums, then yes our education system is wonderful.

inmytree wrote:

you keep saying our nation is "uneducated and uninformed"...what's your evidence...? you seem to be using a very big paint brush here...

you speak in broad, general terms and offer nothing outside of complaints...

:?

again, you give nothing...

it seems as if you feel if someone doesn't think exactly like you they are uneducated and uninformed...

FiveB247x

It has zero to do with people thinking like me or agreeing with my opinions - but has everything to do with the citizens of this nation getting what they deserve. We are the richest nation in the world, yet have one of the worst healtchare and education systems comparitively to other rich industrialized nations, yet spend the most on military. Perhaps you're ok with poor results, but I wouldn't send my child to school in hopes of getting a D+ or C-, yet these are the results as US Citizens we afford and accept from our government and leaders. We have an ever-growing separation of wealth and it is a result of our political and economic system in practice and nothing more. So sit back, watch the 9-11's, watch the wars, watch the banking system collapse and then get bailed out on tax payer funds, watch the partisan politics, build the fear, sit on your hands, zip your lips, do nothing, stay comfortable everything is fine, go back to work, they've got everything covered, you're in good hands... or you'll get what you deserve. Reap what you sow.

inmytree wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Unless we're merely attempting to create a vast amount of low level minimum wage workers, who can't think for themselves and even at best case scenario are taught a skwed version of history in order to make patriotic dulldrums, then yes our education system is wonderful.

inmytree wrote:

you keep saying our nation is "uneducated and uninformed"...what's your evidence...? you seem to be using a very big paint brush here...

you speak in broad, general terms and offer nothing outside of complaints...

:?

again, you give nothing...

it seems as if you feel if someone doesn't think exactly like you they are uneducated and uninformed...

soulsinging

FiveB247x wrote:

Pretty condescending eh?

Fact is we live in an age where everyone has access to information, education, resources and every other tool possible to fix the world around them, yet they don't because of comfort, laziness and disinterest. And because I acknowledge this fact, I'm sitting on my hands? Gimme a break. Thomas Jefferson never picked up a gun and shot at the redcoats during the Revolution, but his ideas, thoughts and actions help create a revolution and empowered people to follow through on it. Our society is in such dire conditions and thoughts, no one wants to be honest when they look around, instead it's easier to live and put up illusions. Reap what you sow in life.

soulsinging wrote:

that's pretty convenient for you. you get to sit on your hands and wait until everyone else magically becomes educated enough to revolt.

not condescending. critical. what are you proposing to fix our dire straits? nothing. jack shit. becos you have nothing, no plan, no goals, nothing. just a bunch of angst at how misunderstood you are. you suffer the delusion common to theleft... that if only everyone knew as much as i know, they'd all think exactly like me. did it ever occur to you that the entire country could be educated overnight, and still be rather happy with the way things are here?

inmytree

FiveB247x wrote:

It has zero to do with people thinking like me or agreeing with my opinions - but has everything to do with the citizens of this nation getting what they deserve. We are the richest nation in the world, yet have one of the worst healtchare and education systems comparitively to other rich industrialized nations, yet spend the most on military. Perhaps you're ok with poor results, but I wouldn't send my child to school in hopes of getting a D+ or C-, yet these are the results as US Citizens we afford and accept from our government and leaders. We have an ever-growing separation of wealth and it is a result of our political and economic system in practice and nothing more. So sit back, watch the 9-11's, watch the wars, watch the banking system collapse and then get bailed out on tax payer funds, watch the partisan politics, build the fear, sit on your hands, zip your lips, do nothing, stay comfortable everything is fine, go back to work, they've got everything covered, you're in good hands... or you'll get what you deserve. Reap what you sow.

ho hum...the world just plain sucks...waaaaaaa....

I do have to say this, when my child goes to school, they will do well...you want to know why..? I'll tell you, I'll take an active roll in their education by making sure they study and do their homework...I'll work to give them the tools to do well and succeed rather that sitting back and whining....

you see, you want to sit back and complain that the country is not perfect...let me share something with you, it never will be...nothing is ever perfect...Utopia is unattainable...the reason being is everyone has there own version of Utopia...

unlike you, I don't expect others to take up for me or my beliefs...I do that on my own...sitting around and wallowing is easy...taking responsibility for your own life and own choices is not...

You claim In the end, vote, or don't vote, your input is insignifcant. ...well if you truly feel that, what are droning on about...?

I do have to say, I agree with one thing you said...you reap what you sow...I have control over what I sow...do you...?

soulsinging

FiveB247x wrote:

What you are merely explaining is that if someone doesn't think government and politics directly effects them, then somehow it makes it ok for that person to tune out what the politics, policies and actions of the government are. That is not acceptable behavior in our system. If the citizens aren't active and turn a blind eye to the smallest or largest thing, they aren't doing their job in our system and as a result, it will, over time, result in what we are seeing now - a government that doesn't have to or need to answer to the citizens because it's primarily run by it's own devices and in bed with big business.

so? when in the history of human society have the "citizens" ever truly been involved in running a country or society? never. we're herd animals, a few generations removed from monkeys. we are not wired to be great, independent islands of thought and freedom. we are wired to be tribes or packs, with a nice, powerful silverback running the show. the elite have always ruled the common. things are no different now than they ever have been... this is not some dire new catastrophe we face. it's the same old shit. and we're better off now than most people living in the same old shit.

soulsinging

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

But what is it that we are revolting against???

What is it that makes you want to hit the streets in protest???

What is so wrong with life here in the USA, that we need to revolt???

nothing. that's why i haven't done shit

and who said anything about nukes? i don't wanna nuke dc, i wanna be tearing it down with my bare hands!

I am going to use YOU, Conor as an example....hope you dont mind...

YOU as an individual....

YOU have gone out and gotten one of the finest educations money can buy....
You have gotten yourself a nice job.....

I see YOU in the near future, buying a house....
BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE WISE DECISIONS IN LIFE......
BECAUSE YOU WILL MAKE WISE DECISIONS WITH YOUR MONEY.....
BECAUSE YOU DO NOT DEPEND ON ANYONE........
BECAUSE YOU WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN FUTURE..........

Which is why you have no reason to protest....or revolt....

you're mostly right... i'll never buy a house. i've no interest in being tied to anything i can't walk away from if needed!

soulsinging

FiveB247x wrote:

Unless we're merely attempting to create a vast amount of low level minimum wage workers, who can't think for themselves

[/quote]

what's so bad or unusual about that? most people don't WANT to think for themselves or simply aren't cut out for it. and if nobody is a low level minimum wage worker... what do you see them all doing instead? if every mcd's employee woke up a rhodes scholar and doctor tomorrow, what the hell good would that do us? who's going to cook fries? or trim hedges? or drive buses? or fold clothes at target? those jobs exist for a reason, someone has to do them. we can't all be philosophers sitting around pondering the injustices of the universe.

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?

I think you missed his point, which is that most of us don't think the world's going to shit or that we're being screwed any more or less than usual.