What is it that makes you want to hit the streets in protest???
What is so wrong with life here in the USA, that we need to revolt???
nothing. that's why i haven't done shit
and who said anything about nukes? i don't wanna nuke dc, i wanna be tearing it down with my bare hands!
I am going to use YOU, Conor as an example....hope you dont mind...
YOU as an individual....
YOU have gone out and gotten one of the finest educations money can buy....
You have gotten yourself a nice job.....
I see YOU in the near future, buying a house....
BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE WISE DECISIONS IN LIFE......
BECAUSE YOU WILL MAKE WISE DECISIONS WITH YOUR MONEY.....
BECAUSE YOU DO NOT DEPEND ON ANYONE........
BECAUSE YOU WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN FUTURE..........
Which is why you have no reason to protest....or revolt....
I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
Any revolution is dead in the water, because there are not enough sane people who would want to organize one. Systems of power haven't changed too much over the centuries... they've just become smarter. The founding fathers purposely set up a system that would benefit the wealthy land owners, and though our government has gradually become more democratized (remember, for most of our history, Senators were not elected by popular vote), the democratic process has also become more intelligently manipulated, mainly through the mass media, which has direct connections to government.
There are plenty of reasons to revolt. Billions, and I suppose its fair to say, trillions of tax dollars are being misused. Our money is being used to keep violent, corrupt dictatorships in power, so that we can have not just reliable sources of oil but a whole slew of commodities, products and services that are sold to us at cheaper prices than a fair labor value would provide. Most wealthy people don't become wealthy simply because they worked hard, but because they took advantage of corrupt systems that dehumanize, and far too often, kill. But they/we don't have to see that, or think about it, because it usually happens on the other side of the world.
There are far more reasons for non-Americans to revolt against the U.S. government than there are for Americans, who by and large are happy with their lives and have plenty of distractions from the things that make them unhappy. And they have pills. Lots and lots of happy pills.
Unless we're merely attempting to create a vast amount of low level minimum wage workers, who can't think for themselves and even at best case scenario are taught a skwed version of history in order to make patriotic dulldrums, then yes our education system is wonderful.
It has zero to do with people thinking like me or agreeing with my opinions - but has everything to do with the citizens of this nation getting what they deserve. We are the richest nation in the world, yet have one of the worst healtchare and education systems comparitively to other rich industrialized nations, yet spend the most on military. Perhaps you're ok with poor results, but I wouldn't send my child to school in hopes of getting a D+ or C-, yet these are the results as US Citizens we afford and accept from our government and leaders. We have an ever-growing separation of wealth and it is a result of our political and economic system in practice and nothing more. So sit back, watch the 9-11's, watch the wars, watch the banking system collapse and then get bailed out on tax payer funds, watch the partisan politics, build the fear, sit on your hands, zip your lips, do nothing, stay comfortable everything is fine, go back to work, they've got everything covered, you're in good hands... or you'll get what you deserve. Reap what you sow.
Unless we're merely attempting to create a vast amount of low level minimum wage workers, who can't think for themselves and even at best case scenario are taught a skwed version of history in order to make patriotic dulldrums, then yes our education system is wonderful.
you keep saying our nation is "uneducated and uninformed"...what's your evidence...? you seem to be using a very big paint brush here...
you speak in broad, general terms and offer nothing outside of complaints...
:?
again, you give nothing...
it seems as if you feel if someone doesn't think exactly like you they are uneducated and uninformed...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Fact is we live in an age where everyone has access to information, education, resources and every other tool possible to fix the world around them, yet they don't because of comfort, laziness and disinterest. And because I acknowledge this fact, I'm sitting on my hands? Gimme a break. Thomas Jefferson never picked up a gun and shot at the redcoats during the Revolution, but his ideas, thoughts and actions help create a revolution and empowered people to follow through on it. Our society is in such dire conditions and thoughts, no one wants to be honest when they look around, instead it's easier to live and put up illusions. Reap what you sow in life.
that's pretty convenient for you. you get to sit on your hands and wait until everyone else magically becomes educated enough to revolt.
not condescending. critical. what are you proposing to fix our dire straits? nothing. jack shit. becos you have nothing, no plan, no goals, nothing. just a bunch of angst at how misunderstood you are. you suffer the delusion common to theleft... that if only everyone knew as much as i know, they'd all think exactly like me. did it ever occur to you that the entire country could be educated overnight, and still be rather happy with the way things are here?
It has zero to do with people thinking like me or agreeing with my opinions - but has everything to do with the citizens of this nation getting what they deserve. We are the richest nation in the world, yet have one of the worst healtchare and education systems comparitively to other rich industrialized nations, yet spend the most on military. Perhaps you're ok with poor results, but I wouldn't send my child to school in hopes of getting a D+ or C-, yet these are the results as US Citizens we afford and accept from our government and leaders. We have an ever-growing separation of wealth and it is a result of our political and economic system in practice and nothing more. So sit back, watch the 9-11's, watch the wars, watch the banking system collapse and then get bailed out on tax payer funds, watch the partisan politics, build the fear, sit on your hands, zip your lips, do nothing, stay comfortable everything is fine, go back to work, they've got everything covered, you're in good hands... or you'll get what you deserve. Reap what you sow.
ho hum...the world just plain sucks...waaaaaaa....
I do have to say this, when my child goes to school, they will do well...you want to know why..? I'll tell you, I'll take an active roll in their education by making sure they study and do their homework...I'll work to give them the tools to do well and succeed rather that sitting back and whining....
you see, you want to sit back and complain that the country is not perfect...let me share something with you, it never will be...nothing is ever perfect...Utopia is unattainable...the reason being is everyone has there own version of Utopia...
unlike you, I don't expect others to take up for me or my beliefs...I do that on my own...sitting around and wallowing is easy...taking responsibility for your own life and own choices is not...
You claim In the end, vote, or don't vote, your input is insignifcant. ...well if you truly feel that, what are droning on about...?
I do have to say, I agree with one thing you said...you reap what you sow...I have control over what I sow...do you...?
What you are merely explaining is that if someone doesn't think government and politics directly effects them, then somehow it makes it ok for that person to tune out what the politics, policies and actions of the government are. That is not acceptable behavior in our system. If the citizens aren't active and turn a blind eye to the smallest or largest thing, they aren't doing their job in our system and as a result, it will, over time, result in what we are seeing now - a government that doesn't have to or need to answer to the citizens because it's primarily run by it's own devices and in bed with big business.
so? when in the history of human society have the "citizens" ever truly been involved in running a country or society? never. we're herd animals, a few generations removed from monkeys. we are not wired to be great, independent islands of thought and freedom. we are wired to be tribes or packs, with a nice, powerful silverback running the show. the elite have always ruled the common. things are no different now than they ever have been... this is not some dire new catastrophe we face. it's the same old shit. and we're better off now than most people living in the same old shit.
What is it that makes you want to hit the streets in protest???
What is so wrong with life here in the USA, that we need to revolt???
nothing. that's why i haven't done shit
and who said anything about nukes? i don't wanna nuke dc, i wanna be tearing it down with my bare hands!
I am going to use YOU, Conor as an example....hope you dont mind...
YOU as an individual....
YOU have gone out and gotten one of the finest educations money can buy....
You have gotten yourself a nice job.....
I see YOU in the near future, buying a house....
BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE WISE DECISIONS IN LIFE......
BECAUSE YOU WILL MAKE WISE DECISIONS WITH YOUR MONEY.....
BECAUSE YOU DO NOT DEPEND ON ANYONE........
BECAUSE YOU WILL TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN FUTURE..........
Which is why you have no reason to protest....or revolt....
you're mostly right... i'll never buy a house. i've no interest in being tied to anything i can't walk away from if needed!
Unless we're merely attempting to create a vast amount of low level minimum wage workers, who can't think for themselves
[/quote]
what's so bad or unusual about that? most people don't WANT to think for themselves or simply aren't cut out for it. and if nobody is a low level minimum wage worker... what do you see them all doing instead? if every mcd's employee woke up a rhodes scholar and doctor tomorrow, what the hell good would that do us? who's going to cook fries? or trim hedges? or drive buses? or fold clothes at target? those jobs exist for a reason, someone has to do them. we can't all be philosophers sitting around pondering the injustices of the universe.
Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
I think you missed his point, which is that most of us don't think the world's going to shit or that we're being screwed any more or less than usual.
See here's the hitch and the mischaracterzation you are making a vast over-estimation on. I do not ever expect nor hold ill-will against someone for having different opinions from my own as long as they are based on fact and thought. For example, I do not agree with the likes of Con-Rice regarding many foreign policies, but can respect why she comes to her opinions.
Also, no we'll never be in a perfect place where everything is just and everyone participates as they are supposed to, but to not attempt to get there is an injustice. Content in failure is the greatest failure of all. Things can always get better, and in our society, it's very easy to see people are more interested in selfish behaviors and consumerism than making a better world for themselves or the future's betterment. During the Enlightenment most envisioned a future of grand being, where we as humans build and made improvements for everyone's sake whether it was industry, medicine or whatever the area, but fast forward to our age and you can clearly see that people's greed, self-interest and greed have push aside those values and hopes for their own benefit and status of being content. You can sit here and say all you like that I don't offer plans (which I can, but our society isn't interested in serious change), they'd prefer comfort, which is fine, but don't complain when the house you've ignored is over time breaking down and not the managible any longer as a result of your neglect. Everyone wants everything for nothing.... do nothing, expect nothing. If you have a self-interested lazy population who doesn't participate, that's the kind of government you will have and the results will follow in line. So when I say education and participation, that is what I mean. A system of garbage in, and garbage out... that's our society becuase it's how we've set it up to be and tolerate it to be.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
See here's the hitch and the mischaracterzation you are making a vast over-estimation on. I do not ever expect nor hold ill-will against someone for having different opinions from my own as long as they are based on fact and thought. For example, I do not agree with the likes of Con-Rice regarding many foreign policies, but can respect why she comes to her opinions.
Also, no we'll never be in a perfect place where everything is just and everyone participates as they are supposed to, but to not attempt to get there is an injustice. Content in failure is the greatest failure of all. Things can always get better, and in our society, it's very easy to see people are more interested in selfish behaviors and consumerism than making a better world for themselves or the future's betterment. During the Enlightenment most envisioned a future of grand being, where we as humans build and made improvements for everyone's sake whether it was industry, medicine or whatever the area, but fast forward to our age and you can clearly see that people's greed, self-interest and greed have push aside those values and hopes for their own benefit and status of being content. You can sit here and say all you like that I don't offer plans (which I can, but our society isn't interested in serious change), they'd prefer comfort, which is fine, but don't complain when the house you've ignored is over time breaking down and not the managible any longer as a result of your neglect. Everyone wants everything for nothing.... do nothing, expect nothing. If you have a self-interested lazy population who doesn't participate, that's the kind of government you will have and the results will follow in line. So when I say education and participation, that is what I mean. A system of garbage in, and garbage out... that's our society becuase it's how we've set it up to be and tolerate it to be.
tell me, how is one to participate as they are supposed to...?
also, are you telling me greed and self-interest were non-existent during the Enlightenment...?
you claim everyone wants everything for nothing...really...? everyone...? I see you pulled out that huge paintbrush again...
how about this, since you seem to know everything and how to fix society's ills, why don't run for office...? save us from our lazy uneducated selves...
this is a great thread that highlights what is really happening ...
i think it can easily be argued and articulated that there is a lot wrong with the US ... the issue boils down to this: does anyone really care?
does anyone truly care that innocent people die due to US actions? that people will be displaced because of global climate change (where the US is the 2nd biggest polluter)? that large corporations take advantage of their power and influence that ultimately impacts many people's persoanl wealth?
Firstly, Polaris thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I elluded to what you expounded upon, but in the end, I believe this is why nothing changes - no one cares to put in the effort and would rather pass the buck.
Secondly, greed and self-interest will never go away, but how much more do we see on the rise has it been through the decades to where we see it now? It's ever-growing to the point that our nation is screwed up beyond simply repair by changing elected officials in office. Think about that for a moment, it's quite astonishing if you really think about it.
Thirdly, no one wants to be bothered to fix our problems. We allow our government to overspend in whatever manner or cause, yet don't want to be taxed. We consume, waste and destroy the evironment, yet don't want to cut back to help repair or alter our destruction so it can rejuvinate for the future. Our habits as a society are similar to a massively overweight person complaining bout their weight, yet refusing to diet or exercise to fix the problem. No effort, no time, don't bother me, not in my back yard, pass the buck... Collectively as a society these are our mantra's through practice and habit.
tell me, how is one to participate as they are supposed to...?
also, are you telling me greed and self-interest were non-existent during the Enlightenment...?
you claim everyone wants everything for nothing...really...? everyone...? I see you pulled out that huge paintbrush again...
how about this, since you seem to know everything and how to fix society's ills, why don't run for office...? save us from our lazy uneducated selves...
please, before it's too late...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
this is a great thread that highlights what is really happening ...
i think it can easily be argued and articulated that there is a lot wrong with the US ... the issue boils down to this: does anyone really care?
does anyone truly care that innocent people die due to US actions? that people will be displaced because of global climate change (where the US is the 2nd biggest polluter)? that large corporations take advantage of their power and influence that ultimately impacts many people's persoanl wealth?
i think the glaring answer is NO
it's hard to care, because we all have our own shit to deal with, and changing the world seems to be pretty damn impossible. maybe we're just too much like the apes to change our ways. basically, if you participate in society, even just by buying a cup of coffee, you are supporting systems of oppression. so what can we do? either live off the grid somehow or not care.
damn you moving train for making me think about these things... now i have to somehow go back to not caring!
Firstly, Polaris thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I elluded to what you expounded upon, but in the end, I believe this is why nothing changes - no one cares to put in the effort and would rather pass the buck.
Secondly, greed and self-interest will never go away, but how much more do we see on the rise has it been through the decades to where we see it now? It's ever-growing to the point that our nation is screwed up beyond simply repair by changing elected officials in office. Think about that for a moment, it's quite astonishing if you really think about it.
Thirdly, no one wants to be bothered to fix our problems. We allow our government to overspend in whatever manner or cause, yet don't want to be taxed. We consume, waste and destroy the evironment, yet don't want to cut back to help repair or alter our destruction so it can rejuvinate for the future. Our habits as a society are similar to a massively overweight person complaining bout their weight, yet refusing to diet or exercise to fix the problem. No effort, no time, don't bother me, not in my back yard, pass the buck... Collectively as a society these are our mantra's through practice and habit.
tell me, how is one to participate as they are supposed to...?
also, are you telling me greed and self-interest were non-existent during the Enlightenment...?
you claim everyone wants everything for nothing...really...? everyone...? I see you pulled out that huge paintbrush again...
how about this, since you seem to know everything and how to fix society's ills, why don't run for office...? save us from our lazy uneducated selves...
please, before it's too late...
can you ever answer a question or do you just go into soliloquy mode...?
seriously, you act as if "change" happens overnight, with the snap of finger, with the waving of a magic wand...the US has changed, and changed for the better...
Heck, 90 years ago, women were granted the right to vote...
55 years ago segregation ended...
45 years ago all finally have equal rights...
39 years ago the EPA was created...
As of January 1st 2010, all restaurants and bars in North Carolina will be smoke free...activists have been pushing this years...
my point is this, Change takes time...as of June 2008 there were 304,059,724 people in the US...that's a lot of people and ideas...it's not like everyone everywhere is going to believe the same thing at the same time...
it's hard to care, because we all have our own shit to deal with, and changing the world seems to be pretty damn impossible. maybe we're just too much like the apes to change our ways. basically, if you participate in society, even just by buying a cup of coffee, you are supporting systems of oppression. so what can we do? either live off the grid somehow or not care.
damn you moving train for making me think about these things... now i have to somehow go back to not caring!
yes ... it seems daunting ... but just caring makes a huge difference ... if everyone cared as much as you - i'm pretty sure we'd have a much better world ...
Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.
can you ever answer a question or do you just go into soliloquy mode...?
seriously, you act as if "change" happens overnight, with the snap of finger, with the waving of a magic wand...the US has changed, and changed for the better...
Heck, 90 years ago, women were granted the right to vote...
55 years ago segregation ended...
45 years ago all finally have equal rights...
39 years ago the EPA was created...
As of January 1st 2010, all restaurants and bars in North Carolina will be smoke free...activists have been pushing this years...
my point is this, Change takes time...as of June 2008 there were 304,059,724 people in the US...that's a lot of people and ideas...it's not like everyone everywhere is going to believe the same thing at the same time...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.
Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.
can you ever answer a question or do you just go into soliloquy mode...?
seriously, you act as if "change" happens overnight, with the snap of finger, with the waving of a magic wand...the US has changed, and changed for the better...
Heck, 90 years ago, women were granted the right to vote...
55 years ago segregation ended...
45 years ago all finally have equal rights...
39 years ago the EPA was created...
As of January 1st 2010, all restaurants and bars in North Carolina will be smoke free...activists have been pushing this years...
my point is this, Change takes time...as of June 2008 there were 304,059,724 people in the US...that's a lot of people and ideas...it's not like everyone everywhere is going to believe the same thing at the same time...
I guess we are all doomed....oh well, at least Jersey Shore starts tonight in MTV...
I've lived in a couple of places around the world, and I can tell you one thing...
This is the best thing going.......sorry.
what makes it the best thing going?
Best thing going for people here who like "living the American dream". There isn't anything wrong with Canada or Europe, or anywhere else, but for the MAJORITY of American's (I have to stress this, because not every one wants to live this way, but most of America does) there is no other place that makes it possible. Like I have said before, there isn't anything wrong with how Europe or Canada or Whoville does things, because its the best system for them and their people. Most of you on the board aren't the norm here in the states, and while most of you would be happy with living in "utopia" ......most of American's aren't.
You're a small majority of the voting population, so its going to take some time to subscrib to the things people want on this board.
Some of the most patriotic people I've ever met are immigrents here in the states. The US is still the number one spot for immigration, and there is a reason for it.
I've seen some really beautiful places and met some really nice people in my life travelling the world. But for a specific way of living, this is it. And most of America is pretty happy chasing that dream, you don't have to like it, its the way it is. Don't be pissed at me, I don't live the "American Dream", you're family, coworkers, and neighbors do.
Best thing going for people here who like "living the American dream". There isn't anything wrong with Canada or Europe, or anywhere else, but for the MAJORITY of American's (I have to stress this, because not every one wants to live this way, but most of America does) there is no other place that makes it possible. Like I have said before, there isn't anything wrong with how Europe or Canada or Whoville does things, because its the best system for them and their people. Most of you on the board aren't the norm here in the states, and while most of you would be happy with living in "utopia" ......most of American's aren't.
You're a small majority of the voting population, so its going to take some time to subscrib to the things people want on this board.
Some of the most patriotic people I've ever met are immigrents here in the states. The US is still the number one spot for immigration, and there is a reason for it.
I've seen some really beautiful places and met some really nice people in my life travelling the world. But for a specific way of living, this is it. And most of America is pretty happy chasing that dream, you don't have to like it, its the way it is. Don't be pissed at me, I don't live the "American Dream", you're family, coworkers, and neighbors do.
uhhh ... i am not the least bit pissed at you or anyone you know ... it was a simple question which if i'm reading correctly is that it's the best thing for you and the people you know because of the "american dream" ...
is it safe to say that it is the ability to get a job and accumulate wealth to buy things and the freedom to do so that qualifies as the american dream?
Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.
no, our society is still like this, but you've got the same myopia every generation does... your challenges are the biggest, the enemies the toughest, and the whole thing's going to hell in a hand basket. the problem is this is the internet/add generation. sustained ever to see change over decades is not for us. we want instananeous gratification becos that's what we're used to, and when we don't get it, we whine over how impossibly hard everything is. suck it up man. until you're getting blasted with fire hoses, don't complain about how impossible it is to change things. you've barely made an effort so far.
Yes somethings change over time and some do not. I feel the inherint problems that plague our society are only getting worse over time and people's interest in fixing them grows smaller and smaller. And yes there's plenty of good people in this world who want to fix things and make it a better place for all, but as the saying goes, a few bad apples spoil the bunch. I think our system is broken beyond repair and the people aren't involved nor care enough to fix it. It's certainly not a case of things being the toughest or anything similar, but I think the caliber of people in society has so greatly deminished, it's more than unlikely we'll see the change we all need or care for. Some may call me a cynic or negative or skeptical, but I don't view the world in "what ifs" or through delusions and illusions.
Somethings change slowly over time, and all the things you listed below were mostly created from people forcing change outside of the voting booth and because they were involved and interested. Our society is not like this anymore and our system is far worse off and controlled than in the past when any of those things changed.
no, our society is still like this, but you've got the same myopia every generation does... your challenges are the biggest, the enemies the toughest, and the whole thing's going to hell in a hand basket. the problem is this is the internet/add generation. sustained ever to see change over decades is not for us. we want instananeous gratification becos that's what we're used to, and when we don't get it, we whine over how impossibly hard everything is. suck it up man. until you're getting blasted with fire hoses, don't complain about how impossible it is to change things. you've barely made an effort so far.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
Funny you tell me how my response does not have anything to do with the subject......
Because when i have asked you simple questions .....
What is it that we need to protest about??
What is is exactly that wants people like you to revolt??
What is so wrong with the USA that you want to start a revolution??
You gave me some strange answer about Television and twitter.......Then you mentioned someting about police firing the shots and starting all the violence......
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
Funny you tell me how my response does not have anything to do with the subject......
Because when i have asked you simple questions .....
What is it that we need to protest about??
What is is exactly that wants people like you to revolt??
What is so wrong with the USA that you want to start a revolution??
You gave me some strange answer about Television and twitter.......Then you mentioned someting about police firing the shots and starting all the violence......
she did answer you
Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit?
although, you may want to reword your second question.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I know you're not talking to me but...owning a house doesn't mean anything other than you own a house. What does that have to do with anything here? I'm educated, does that mean I'm owed a house? a job? (which is hard to come by and if you have one, consider yourself lucky right now!) And by whom am I owed such things?
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
Funny you tell me how my response does not have anything to do with the subject......
Because when i have asked you simple questions .....
What is it that we need to protest about??
What is is exactly that wants people like you to revolt??
What is so wrong with the USA that you want to start a revolution??
You gave me some strange answer about Television and twitter.......Then you mentioned someting about police firing the shots and starting all the violence......
she did answer you
Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit?
although, you may want to reword your second question.
So you are telling me...
That the reason we are supposed to get together and revolt.....
Is because the world is going to shit??? And our leaders are screwing us?????
Thats it???
Thats all you have for me????
I have a feeling not many people are going to join the revolution.....
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Comments
I think Speedy, that you see having certain things and making the right decisions for one's self (as well as holding ourselves accountable) should make us content. Not necessarily. If one cares about the bigger issues in the world, which is basically everyone who participates on the MT, why not question? Why not demand better? Why settle for things when either we may have higher standards or expectations? (which can be good AND bad). Why not demand answers when we know that our leaders are screwing us? Why sit idly by, accepting everything, when we know the world's going to shit? I think it's the difference between the 60s era and now, as then, more people cared about world-wide matters. The majority now, simply don't. We were born to question things, so why should we stop?
There are plenty of reasons to revolt. Billions, and I suppose its fair to say, trillions of tax dollars are being misused. Our money is being used to keep violent, corrupt dictatorships in power, so that we can have not just reliable sources of oil but a whole slew of commodities, products and services that are sold to us at cheaper prices than a fair labor value would provide. Most wealthy people don't become wealthy simply because they worked hard, but because they took advantage of corrupt systems that dehumanize, and far too often, kill. But they/we don't have to see that, or think about it, because it usually happens on the other side of the world.
There are far more reasons for non-Americans to revolt against the U.S. government than there are for Americans, who by and large are happy with their lives and have plenty of distractions from the things that make them unhappy. And they have pills. Lots and lots of happy pills.
:?
again, you give nothing...
it seems as if you feel if someone doesn't think exactly like you they are uneducated and uninformed...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
not condescending. critical. what are you proposing to fix our dire straits? nothing. jack shit. becos you have nothing, no plan, no goals, nothing. just a bunch of angst at how misunderstood you are. you suffer the delusion common to theleft... that if only everyone knew as much as i know, they'd all think exactly like me. did it ever occur to you that the entire country could be educated overnight, and still be rather happy with the way things are here?
ho hum...the world just plain sucks...waaaaaaa....
I do have to say this, when my child goes to school, they will do well...you want to know why..? I'll tell you, I'll take an active roll in their education by making sure they study and do their homework...I'll work to give them the tools to do well and succeed rather that sitting back and whining....
you see, you want to sit back and complain that the country is not perfect...let me share something with you, it never will be...nothing is ever perfect...Utopia is unattainable...the reason being is everyone has there own version of Utopia...
unlike you, I don't expect others to take up for me or my beliefs...I do that on my own...sitting around and wallowing is easy...taking responsibility for your own life and own choices is not...
You claim In the end, vote, or don't vote, your input is insignifcant. ...well if you truly feel that, what are droning on about...?
I do have to say, I agree with one thing you said...you reap what you sow...I have control over what I sow...do you...?
so? when in the history of human society have the "citizens" ever truly been involved in running a country or society? never. we're herd animals, a few generations removed from monkeys. we are not wired to be great, independent islands of thought and freedom. we are wired to be tribes or packs, with a nice, powerful silverback running the show. the elite have always ruled the common. things are no different now than they ever have been... this is not some dire new catastrophe we face. it's the same old shit. and we're better off now than most people living in the same old shit.
you're mostly right... i'll never buy a house. i've no interest in being tied to anything i can't walk away from if needed!
what's so bad or unusual about that? most people don't WANT to think for themselves or simply aren't cut out for it. and if nobody is a low level minimum wage worker... what do you see them all doing instead? if every mcd's employee woke up a rhodes scholar and doctor tomorrow, what the hell good would that do us? who's going to cook fries? or trim hedges? or drive buses? or fold clothes at target? those jobs exist for a reason, someone has to do them. we can't all be philosophers sitting around pondering the injustices of the universe.
I think you missed his point, which is that most of us don't think the world's going to shit or that we're being screwed any more or less than usual.
Also, no we'll never be in a perfect place where everything is just and everyone participates as they are supposed to, but to not attempt to get there is an injustice. Content in failure is the greatest failure of all. Things can always get better, and in our society, it's very easy to see people are more interested in selfish behaviors and consumerism than making a better world for themselves or the future's betterment. During the Enlightenment most envisioned a future of grand being, where we as humans build and made improvements for everyone's sake whether it was industry, medicine or whatever the area, but fast forward to our age and you can clearly see that people's greed, self-interest and greed have push aside those values and hopes for their own benefit and status of being content. You can sit here and say all you like that I don't offer plans (which I can, but our society isn't interested in serious change), they'd prefer comfort, which is fine, but don't complain when the house you've ignored is over time breaking down and not the managible any longer as a result of your neglect. Everyone wants everything for nothing.... do nothing, expect nothing. If you have a self-interested lazy population who doesn't participate, that's the kind of government you will have and the results will follow in line. So when I say education and participation, that is what I mean. A system of garbage in, and garbage out... that's our society becuase it's how we've set it up to be and tolerate it to be.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
tell me, how is one to participate as they are supposed to...?
also, are you telling me greed and self-interest were non-existent during the Enlightenment...?
you claim everyone wants everything for nothing...really...? everyone...? I see you pulled out that huge paintbrush again...
how about this, since you seem to know everything and how to fix society's ills, why don't run for office...? save us from our lazy uneducated selves...
please, before it's too late...
i think it can easily be argued and articulated that there is a lot wrong with the US ... the issue boils down to this: does anyone really care?
does anyone truly care that innocent people die due to US actions? that people will be displaced because of global climate change (where the US is the 2nd biggest polluter)? that large corporations take advantage of their power and influence that ultimately impacts many people's persoanl wealth?
i think the glaring answer is NO
Secondly, greed and self-interest will never go away, but how much more do we see on the rise has it been through the decades to where we see it now? It's ever-growing to the point that our nation is screwed up beyond simply repair by changing elected officials in office. Think about that for a moment, it's quite astonishing if you really think about it.
Thirdly, no one wants to be bothered to fix our problems. We allow our government to overspend in whatever manner or cause, yet don't want to be taxed. We consume, waste and destroy the evironment, yet don't want to cut back to help repair or alter our destruction so it can rejuvinate for the future. Our habits as a society are similar to a massively overweight person complaining bout their weight, yet refusing to diet or exercise to fix the problem. No effort, no time, don't bother me, not in my back yard, pass the buck... Collectively as a society these are our mantra's through practice and habit.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
it's hard to care, because we all have our own shit to deal with, and changing the world seems to be pretty damn impossible. maybe we're just too much like the apes to change our ways. basically, if you participate in society, even just by buying a cup of coffee, you are supporting systems of oppression. so what can we do? either live off the grid somehow or not care.
damn you moving train for making me think about these things... now i have to somehow go back to not caring!
can you ever answer a question or do you just go into soliloquy mode...?
seriously, you act as if "change" happens overnight, with the snap of finger, with the waving of a magic wand...the US has changed, and changed for the better...
Heck, 90 years ago, women were granted the right to vote...
55 years ago segregation ended...
45 years ago all finally have equal rights...
39 years ago the EPA was created...
As of January 1st 2010, all restaurants and bars in North Carolina will be smoke free...activists have been pushing this years...
my point is this, Change takes time...as of June 2008 there were 304,059,724 people in the US...that's a lot of people and ideas...it's not like everyone everywhere is going to believe the same thing at the same time...
This is the best thing going.......sorry.
yes ... it seems daunting ... but just caring makes a huge difference ... if everyone cared as much as you - i'm pretty sure we'd have a much better world ...
what makes it the best thing going?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=119159
I guess we are all doomed....oh well, at least Jersey Shore starts tonight in MTV...
Best thing going for people here who like "living the American dream". There isn't anything wrong with Canada or Europe, or anywhere else, but for the MAJORITY of American's (I have to stress this, because not every one wants to live this way, but most of America does) there is no other place that makes it possible. Like I have said before, there isn't anything wrong with how Europe or Canada or Whoville does things, because its the best system for them and their people. Most of you on the board aren't the norm here in the states, and while most of you would be happy with living in "utopia" ......most of American's aren't.
You're a small majority of the voting population, so its going to take some time to subscrib to the things people want on this board.
Some of the most patriotic people I've ever met are immigrents here in the states. The US is still the number one spot for immigration, and there is a reason for it.
I've seen some really beautiful places and met some really nice people in my life travelling the world. But for a specific way of living, this is it. And most of America is pretty happy chasing that dream, you don't have to like it, its the way it is. Don't be pissed at me, I don't live the "American Dream", you're family, coworkers, and neighbors do.
It sure does. Watch out for "Snooki." She dated one of my best friends for a very long time.
uhhh ... i am not the least bit pissed at you or anyone you know ... it was a simple question which if i'm reading correctly is that it's the best thing for you and the people you know because of the "american dream" ...
is it safe to say that it is the ability to get a job and accumulate wealth to buy things and the freedom to do so that qualifies as the american dream?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Because when i have asked you simple questions .....
What is it that we need to protest about??
What is is exactly that wants people like you to revolt??
What is so wrong with the USA that you want to start a revolution??
You gave me some strange answer about Television and twitter.......Then you mentioned someting about police firing the shots and starting all the violence......
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
she did answer you
although, you may want to reword your second question.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
That the reason we are supposed to get together and revolt.....
Is because the world is going to shit??? And our leaders are screwing us?????
Thats it???
Thats all you have for me????
I have a feeling not many people are going to join the revolution.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....