GITMO??????
Comments
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Johnny Sitar wrote:vedderman71 wrote:I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
I realize WWII was several decades ago, but my Grandfather didn't take bullet in vain so you folks weren't forced to become Nazis and speak German. Whenever the world gets in a skirmish, many turn to the US for help. We ARE the World's police, so be it.
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that we, as proud Americans, tend to take exception to people attacking innocent people; let alone Our Own innocent.
The Known Terrorist that are confined at Gitmo are the same people Recruiting the suicide bombers, Training young people how to fire an AK-47 at the innocent. Many of the detainees were on CIA and FBI "whatch lists" that were basically "observed" during the weak Clinton administration.
If you want to sit back and take unfounded ignorant cheap shots at the US from the confort of your peaceful home-town, then that is your choice. Or, you could ask the newly liberated Iraqi people what they think of their recently new found freedoms.
Also, maybe travel to New York City and ask the survivors and family members of those lost on 9/11 what Their Opinion of closing GITMO would be. You think their response would be: "Sure, show compassion upon those whom helped plan gruesome attacks on the innocent. Hell let all move to NYC so they can be our neighbors!"
Better yet, let's ship these fine detainees to Poland, South England and Canada.
Hell even France "volunteered" to take ONE prisoner! How brave of Frenchie...but what else would you expect?
-why would you find it odd that people from outside the US would be critical of its policies? Open debate about international issues is open to all peoples
-this whole WWII business of "you owe us forever for saving your asses" is getting tiresome. Did the US win that war alone? NOPE.
-generally speaking, the US helps those where it also benefits the US in turn. It is in the US's best interests to get rid of dictators that might take the reigns as the next superpower, or be in control of the all the worlds riches. I don't see the US rushing to the aid of Africans starving to death. Nothing gained there, is there?
-I'm glad we agree that due process is a requirement for ALL humans. The way things are currently done at Gitmo goes beyond what is defined as a war crime. GWB and his administration should be in prison themselves.
-I think many of those "liberated Iraqi people" you speak of might have a different viewpoint than you think. They've wanted the US to get the fuck out of there months, maybe even years, ago. How many of their family members have been killed by US forces, and just counted as collateral damage? Too many to count. All at the price of this so-called liberation, which has just blown up into civil war the likes of which that nation has not seen.
-there are several 9/11 survivors and New Yorkers in general that disagree with how suspected terrorists are treated.
-and the last comment about France, well, let's just say it shows your position on foreign affairs.
By the way you talk Johnny I am assuming yyou are not an american and do not live in the u.s......right?0 -
vedderman71 wrote:The 2 things I referenced were in "defense" the cheap shot from soulsinging who wrote:
"...central indiana full of good, red-blooded, ww2 vet descended, commie-hatin, bible-lovin REAL americans."
I feel no need to defend Who I Am and What I am to some one who has seen the world 11 years less than I have. My point about the shows I've seen was that I was into Pearl Jam while this guy was 12.
So I HAVE seen plenty...and I ask myself as I write this and I'm thinking, "Why the hell do I give fuck what people I have never met and have NO idea who I am or What I am really like?"
Just like I'm tired of defending who I am, I don't think we need to pander all our critics all over the world.
The U.S. can't be run by a suggestion box or opinion polls like Clinton's did.
I said that because you had made it clear that those were the only people you considered real americans... those who mindlessly worship all things patriotism out of a belief that our country is Jesus's favorite.
I take it you have no response to my points about the way you exploit your grandfather's achievements for personal ego boosts and ask all Europeans to kiss your ass for what he did?
Also, as to opinion polls... when 95% of those polled say you're an asshole... sure sometimes they're wrong, but sometimes it means you're acting like an asshole.0 -
why come you said that?mb262200 wrote:
By the way you talk Johnny I am assuming yyou are not an american and do not live in the u.s......right?
he talks like a fag hahahahahahaha
:roll:
sorry....Idiocracy becomes more prophetic all the time....and I've had the words 'why come' in my head for days, needed to get 'em out.
Are you now going to tell him that his opinions on US foreign policy don't matter if he's not american?0 -
vedderman71 wrote:I haven't posted in here in a while because I've been busy with Capitalistic endevors of Commerce. It's a really interesting concept Commy should look into. Basically, you do work producing and selling goods, and then...wait for it ...you get PAID for your goods or services; in this case the harvest of soybeans and corn in order for us to feed the World!
Accross Oceans, I can't even begin to imagine what life is like in your part of the world, nor could I even begin to comment on your culture or lifestyle. Having said that, I wouldn't trade where I live with any one, let alone any one in this thread. I sicerely wish you well, and when/if you can make it to the U.S., I invite you to Central Indiana and we can have a good discussion over a beverage.
Pepe your ignorance on anything American was shown in the threads regarding U.S. agriculture. The "newsources" (I am using that term lightly) you site are internet sites with a strong agenda where they have little to no creditability as valid world news. And most Americans with any common sense see the NY Times as a Verrry Slanted liberal rag with a very strong agenda. Common Dreams?? How very socialist of you, I''m sure Commy luvs that site.
And Commy, the next time I give Frenchie any credit is when I support its nude beaches; or else I get more vacation days (they're on holiday about half the year) or when I work on my appreciation of fine wines. The reason why I sited their agriculture trade policies was to reference the "elitest" view of themselves, yet they continue to limit the amount of wheat that flows into Ethopia. AND the French government is shackling its farmers by not allowing them to use genetically modified crops and won't import such grain. And Before you all show your ignorance on this topic just know the FDA, USDA and the EPA have all endorsed these technologies. These advances actually allow growers to use LESS pesticides and chemicals by modifying a protein in the parent seed. Now EU scientists and universities are endorsing these technologies, but the French politians won't reverse their stance.
And the French revolt because their government is a JOKE. The U.S. has revolution" every 2 to 4 years...it's called an Election. Democracy....hmmm yes, you can say it DEMOCRACY.
Gimmesometruth: I truly feel sorry for you having such a poor opinion of the U.S. military. And I won't apologize to any one for taking my grandfather's involvement in WWII so personal. Just to let you all know how your painting with broad strokes paints a VERY Inaccurate picture of the World, let alone the U.S. and our troops. My Grandfather Lied about his age so he could fight for his country. He said he was 18 when in fact he just turned 17. So he DID NOT get drafted, he enlisted. When the U.S. gets attacked, we kind of take it personal. My younger buddy who just got back from Iraq, he ENLISTED after 9/11. He walked away from a great construction job to serve. One of my friend's brother re-upped for a THIRD tour and left his newly-wed wife at home for another year tour because of his Education in communication technology he is needed over in Iraq.
Johnny Sitar: finding thousands of gallons of chemical weapons that Hussien used on his own people isn't enough for ya, is it? Advanced techinical drawing and plans for nuclear developement and enrichment not enough either? You think Hussien's minions were just trying to study up to broaden their horizons? What makes me laugh is that any proof is never enough for libs. Your neivity on whether or not WMD were destroyed or sold baffles me. You think Iraq, Iran, N. Korea and Al Quida exchange receipts on WMD? Iraq kept the UN, the U.S. and the World at it's borders and check points for well over a month. What do you really think they were doing that whole time? Tidying up the place, getting records in order?
Liberals and many in this thread have very interesting way of "estimating" the number of civilian casualties. So I did a little research of my own, thinking at first to go to Fox News, but I knew you all wouldn't appreciate their figures. So what I have here is an excert from a recent interview from NPR:
CONAN: Joining us now is Nicholas Goldberg, a deputy editor at the Los Angeles Times. He works on the editorial pages there. Last month, he wrote a piece called "The Rules of War" and joins us from the studios at the Los Angeles Times. Nice to have you with us today.
Mr. NICHOLAS GOLDBERG (Deputy Editor, Los Angeles Times; Author, "The Rules of War"): Nice to be here.
CONAN: And as we mentioned very briefly, in the past, by comparison with previous wars, Afghanistan, even Iraq, are miniscule.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Oh yeah, they're really quite small. The Brookings Institution estimates that about, you know, 5,000 or a little more civilians have died in the war between 2006 and 2009. If you look at Iraq, that number's closer to 60,000. If you look at Vietnam, the number of civilians who died was in the millions, and in World War II, nearly 40 million non-combatants were killed. World War I, there were about six million non-combatants killed. So you can see that the numbers in Afghanistan, although worrisome, although bad, are much, much, much smaller.
And normally I wouldn't give much credit to the L.A. Times, another liberal rag, but those are the facts they site...
Chew on that...back to harvest my genetically engineered grain!
Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?0 -
brandon10 wrote:vedderman71 wrote:I have actually stated my position on GITMO on p. 2 of this thread:
"I agree process those incarcerated. But to just shut the base down? Where's the planning in that?
Oh ya, I forgot, what was once the most influential country in the world is being "led" by a Junior Senator whose biggest supporter is a day-time talk show host. Of course he has a plan...
Only in America...."It's Evolution Babe-Bee!!"
Obama has not stated his plans for Gitmo because he grossly underestimated the task. Now he's stuck trying to uphold an election promise, when in fact the problem at hand doesn't have an easy over-nite "feel good" way to solve the complexity of the problem. Unfortuantely, I am not so nieve to think that at least a few detainees are innocent. Get them processed. But for those that are guilty of warm crimes; recruiting suicide bombers; training young people to fire AK-47's (left overs from the COMMUNIST U.S.S.R.) at the innocent; recruiting and training fellow terrorist to fly planes into buildings full of business workers.
And as for the Iraqi civilian losses, it's so hard to ever say what happened in each individual battle. But here's an example from the same NPR interview session referencing fighting in Afghanistan and how the Taliban use civilians as shields.
CONAN: You say reduce the number of airstrikes - much tighter rules. You were one of the reporters who went and investigated, not in Helmand Province, but out in the western part of Afghanistan, the airstrike that, well, it's become notorious.
BOWMAN: Exactly. It was in Farah Province back in May, and we don't know exactly how many were killed. The Americans say roughly 30, 35 civilians were killed. The Afghan government said it was 140. And that happened when airstrikes were called in, including a B-2 bomber, a huge bomber. And again, this is a case where, you know, the Taliban are shooting back at the Americans. There were some Afghan police and army involved in that, caught up in that. And the decision by the commander on the ground, to save Afghan forces and to save his forces, he felt he had to call in those bombing strikes. But again, it leads to a lot of civilian casualties sometimes.
CONAN: Is there any indication that the Taliban deliberately fights from behind cover of civilians?
BOWMAN: Oh, absolutely. They use human shields. And the U.N. report that just came out said that they got a memo or something from one of the deputies to Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, who told his people to actually go in there, into civilian areas, and start shooting from these houses and buildings, hoping that there'll be a response, a larger response from the Americans that will kill civilians. So this is a tactic that they use and talk about.
CONAN: And if you're denying one of the great forces U.S. - advantages U.S. and NATO forces have is command of the air. If you're restricting that, aren't you restricting one of your great advantages?
BOWMAN: Well, you really are. I think there's no question you're putting U.S. troops at greater risk by doing this sort of cordon-and-search or just cordon operation as opposed to calling in airstrikes. But as they say, the most important thing in this counterinsurgency fight is winning the people over from the insurgents, but I think there's no question they'll be taking a little more risk
Also, this same radio interview, the interviewer listed Afghanistan then Iraq in his line of questioning on civilian deaths.
CONAN: And as we mentioned very briefly, in the past, by comparison with previous wars, Afghanistan, even Iraq, are miniscule.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Oh yeah, they're really quite small. The Brookings Institution estimates that about, you know, 5,000 or a little more civilians have died in the war between 2006 and 2009. If you look at Iraq, that number's closer to 60,000. If you look at Vietnam, the number of civilians who died was in the millions, and in World War II, nearly 40 million non-combatants were killed. World War I, there were about six million non-combatants killed. So you can see that the numbers in Afghanistan, although worrisome, although bad, are much, much, much smaller.
If you want to read the transcript of the interview, here's a link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =111623604
And brandon10, you make the "effort" to quote my entire rant then only to hit me with:
"You live a sad existence." No it's weaklings like you who live such a negative existance of animosity towards the U.S. and it's military that leads to why there is so much negativity in the "X-Generation" of young people of this country. You think our fore-fathers stopped to ponder and wonder, "Wow, I wonder what this attack on the beaches of Normandy is going to be percieved by others?" Do you really think General MaCarthur in today's World would give a DAMN about World-wide opinion polls?
I'm not about to waste my energy dealing with an insignificant, ill informed, brainwashed kool-aid drinker like you. You get what you deserve. One liners.
And way to keep posting a conversation with Conan :roll: No one cares. The only thing we are accompilshing over there is creating more enemies. But you are too numb to understand that.
You should take Vedder's name out of yours. It's disgusting. And I'm sure he would be sickened by it.
Brandon, you haven't said one intelligent thing on this post yet. Do you have anything of value to say?0 -
vedderman71 wrote:Actually brandon10, if you had any well sourced knowledge other than your ignorant brief hash-pipe induced opinions you spew here, one of Eddie's best friends was Johnny Ramone, well known right-wing conservative. Johnny and Ed spent many hours playing Johnny's juke-box of classic rock and discussing not rock 'n roll, but...wait...Politics. (Rolling Stone) And you prove your inability to debate by "quoting" my post and telling me I'm not worth your time, yet while not making any valid points to re-buff my quotes from the known liberal public domain known as NPR.
I was able to get 2nd row @ the Champaign, IL show back in April of '03, just after the band was taking heat for "Bushleager." I had a custom made T-shirt w/ "Bushbacker" on the back and "Conservatives have feelings too" on the front. The girls in the front row ahead of me got Ed's attention during the bridge of "Alive," and we showed him my shirt. Ed got a big smile and gave me a thumbs up.
The point of this whole mess is give a damn, don't stay on the side-lines and criticize others while not having a well found factual point of your own.
He who casts stones in a glass house...
Game on brandon10...and I'm "Wicked Smart" and have shot down much bigger fish than your lame un-founded takes a long time ago. Bring IT!
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Can you give a single example of a poster in this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that has changed their stance on the war based on which president is in office? People put way more faith in Obama than I was comfortable seeing, and some gave him more slack than he deserved while he got his bearings in office....but I can't think of anyone who gave him a pass on the wars. Everyone that was against them then, is still against them.mb262200 wrote:
Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?
Never ceases to amaze me how people make something so important into a fucking schoolyard squabble over whose daddy is tougher.Post edited by Drowned Out on0 -
Pepe Silvia wrote:Pepe Silvia wrote:vedderman71 wrote:
I have a couple buddies who have come home from Iraq and said the media has it all wrong in regards to how our troops are treated by the majority of the Iraqi people. We need our troops home just like they want their country to be at peace. So I ask, which is worse, a civil war over new-found power, or genocide of Kurds because they don't fall in line? And don't give me the "no proof of WMD" line that I've heard from my liberal friends. Any good hard evidence of WMD was destroyed or moved (or sold) while the UN was jacking around.
And your take on innocent family members being killed...you make it sound like US troops were targeting women and children. Collateral damage is a sad fact of war.
And don't get me started on France. They've had more forms of government in my life time than I've had cars and or girlfriends. (I'm 38 and No man whore) As an agriculturalist I can absolutely tell you the sole country that has exclusive trade agreements on wheat with such countries as Ethiopia...yes France. France is the #1 pain in the ass in doing Ag trade with the EU.
Seriously Vedderman71, do you have any proof that Any good hard evidence of WMD was destroyed or moved (or sold) while the UN was jacking around or are you just always throwing out half-truths hoping your theories might actually stick to the wall?
any chance in you answering this or are you going to just continue to insult people? i've answered all of your questions you''ve asked of me and even provided links
same old, same old. if there is no hard proof then the U.S. must be shit.0 -
he'll make it to my posts eventually 0
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brandon10 wrote:vedderman71 wrote:Actually brandon10, if you had any well sourced knowledge other than your ignorant brief hash-pipe induced opinions you spew here, one of Eddie's best friends was Johnny Ramone, well known right-wing conservative. Johnny and Ed spent many hours playing Johnny's juke-box of classic rock and discussing not rock 'n roll, but...wait...Politics. (Rolling Stone) And you prove your inability to debate by "quoting" my post and telling me I'm not worth your time, yet while not making any valid points to re-buff my quotes from the known liberal public domain known as NPR.
I was able to get 2nd row @ the Champaign, IL show back in April of '03, just after the band was taking heat for "Bushleager." I had a custom made T-shirt w/ "Bushbacker" on the back and "Conservatives have feelings too" on the front. The girls in the front row ahead of me got Ed's attention during the bridge of "Alive," and we showed him my shirt. Ed got a big smile and gave me a thumbs up.
The point of this whole mess is give a damn, don't stay on the side-lines and criticize others while not having a well found factual point of your own.
He who casts stones in a glass house...
Game on brandon10...and I'm "Wicked Smart" and have shot down much bigger fish than your lame un-founded takes a long time ago. Bring IT!
Seriuosly?? You are comparing yourself to Johnny Ramone?! :roll: I guess that's what "wicked smart" people do? How smart do you have to be to realize you are a complete douchebag? Would that be "crazy smart"? Or "super duper smart"? Or "out of this world smart"? Oh I know...it's "Sarah Palin smart"! That's what you are...."Sarah Palin smart". You should really change your name from Vedderman to Sarah Palin smart.
Oh and hey SarahPalinsmart, I know how Eddie feels about conservitive know it alls like you because I talked with him about it. See that picture on the right? That's Eddie and I. I talked politics with him. And trust me, everything you say here in this thread would disgust him!!!
You are more of an enemy to the United States than a peace loving Persian.
HAHAHA, And what did you have that was so inteligent to say to Eddie....YEAH MAN OBAMA FREAKIN RULES DUDE! 0 -
mb262200 wrote:brandon10 wrote:vedderman71 wrote:Actually brandon10, if you had any well sourced knowledge other than your ignorant brief hash-pipe induced opinions you spew here, one of Eddie's best friends was Johnny Ramone, well known right-wing conservative. Johnny and Ed spent many hours playing Johnny's juke-box of classic rock and discussing not rock 'n roll, but...wait...Politics. (Rolling Stone) And you prove your inability to debate by "quoting" my post and telling me I'm not worth your time, yet while not making any valid points to re-buff my quotes from the known liberal public domain known as NPR.
I was able to get 2nd row @ the Champaign, IL show back in April of '03, just after the band was taking heat for "Bushleager." I had a custom made T-shirt w/ "Bushbacker" on the back and "Conservatives have feelings too" on the front. The girls in the front row ahead of me got Ed's attention during the bridge of "Alive," and we showed him my shirt. Ed got a big smile and gave me a thumbs up.
The point of this whole mess is give a damn, don't stay on the side-lines and criticize others while not having a well found factual point of your own.
He who casts stones in a glass house...
Game on brandon10...and I'm "Wicked Smart" and have shot down much bigger fish than your lame un-founded takes a long time ago. Bring IT!
Seriuosly?? You are comparing yourself to Johnny Ramone?! :roll: I guess that's what "wicked smart" people do? How smart do you have to be to realize you are a complete douchebag? Would that be "crazy smart"? Or "super duper smart"? Or "out of this world smart"? Oh I know...it's "Sarah Palin smart"! That's what you are...."Sarah Palin smart". You should really change your name from Vedderman to Sarah Palin smart.
Oh and hey SarahPalinsmart, I know how Eddie feels about conservitive know it alls like you because I talked with him about it. See that picture on the right? That's Eddie and I. I talked politics with him. And trust me, everything you say here in this thread would disgust him!!!
You are more of an enemy to the United States than a peace loving Persian.
HAHAHA, And what did you have that was so inteligent to say to Eddie....YEAH MAN OBAMA FREAKIN RULES DUDE!
are you going to contribute to the thread or indulge us with your name calling as usual? you have made no attempt to participate in the discussion other than mock other posters's posts. by all means, tell me what your thoughts are on gitmo."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Ok, to answer the last post...I'll answer with a question.
Say the U.S. closes Gitmo...then what? I have yet to see any one's plan on what you do next?
So as a right-wing ignorant dumbass, here's my plan.
Go to the arresting agent/officer and prosecutor and find out which prisoners do we have the LEAST amount of evidence against. Give those detainees their day in court First.
Form a "judge and jury" of a U.N. appointed counsel. Hell put a Canadian and accrosstheOceans on there
If found innocent, send them to their home-land. To appease the Pepe's of the World, compinsate them, offer our apologies. (Realizing that's not enough, but this is hypothical)
Ok, now the difficult part...
You try the remaining detainees. For the "left" side of the discussion it's half or more of those held (for sake of argument, hell we have to be 50 % accurate) the unbiased "jury" finds 50 % guilty of "war crimes."
The villians recruited children to be suicide bombers. They trained 15 yr. old impressionable minds to turn guns on the innocent...etc., et. al.
So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
I believe that's where Both the Bush And the Obama adinistration find themselves. The World's eyes are obviously upon us, what's the next step?
My right wing ass says execute them and be done with it all...but I'm sure many of you have a problem with that...I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime0 -
vedderman71 wrote:The villians recruited children to be suicide bombers. They trained 15 yr. old impressionable minds to turn guns on the innocent...etc., et. al.
So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
sure. i dont give a fuck. put them in the mansfield pen, right down the road from me. what the fuck do you think they are, x-men or something? those guys will spend the rest of their lives getting their shit fucked up in ways you and i can't imagine courtesy of gangbangers from even the most tame american cities. you don't give us enough credit... it's not us that should be afraid of them in our prisons, it's them who should be shitting themselves at the thought of going to our prisons.0 -
Ok, but at least we don't just turn 'em lose, that's my point.
It would be cheaper to spend the money on the ammo or meds to execute them...Ha, not really!I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime0 -
vedderman71 wrote:Ok, but at least we don't just turn 'em lose, that's my point.
It would be cheaper to spend the money on the ammo or meds to execute them...Ha, not really!
execution is expensive in the us. way more so than life in prison. and probably a whole lot more merciful too.0 -
Considering I am the only person with "south of england" in my location I can only assume that "the little puke from south of england" is me. I'm a bit puzzled why I deserve this unwarranted attack as I've only made 2 posts in this thread.mb262200 wrote:vedderman71 wrote:I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
I realize WWII was several decades ago, but my Grandfather didn't take bullet in vain so you folks weren't forced to become Nazis and speak German. Whenever the world gets in a skirmish, many turn to the US for help. We ARE the World's police, so be it.
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that we, as proud Americans, tend to take exception to people attacking innocent people; let alone Our Own innocent.
The Known Terrorist that are confined at Gitmo are the same people Recruiting the suicide bombers, Training young people how to fire an AK-47 at the innocent. Many of the detainees were on CIA and FBI "whatch lists" that were basically "observed" during the weak Clinton administration.
If you want to sit back and take unfounded ignorant cheap shots at the US from the confort of your peaceful home-town, then that is your choice. Or, you could ask the newly liberated Iraqi people what they think of their recently new found freedoms.
Also, maybe travel to New York City and ask the survivors and family members of those lost on 9/11 what Their Opinion of closing GITMO would be. You think their response would be: "Sure, show compassion upon those whom helped plan gruesome attacks on the innocent. Hell let all move to NYC so they can be our neighbors!"
Better yet, let's ship these fine detainees to Poland, South England and Canada.
Hell even France "volunteered" to take ONE prisoner! How brave of Frenchie...but what else would you expect?
Thank You Vedderman.I am not so good with words and you said it all for me.....I hope the little puke from south of england reads this!!!!!
The first questioned the right of locking up people without giving them a trial. I thought this was reasonable.
The second actually questioned a comment made by Vedderman71 in the very post you quoted. I would have thought it obvious I had read his post if I questioned it.
Perhaps you are "not so good with words" due to the acute lack of brain cells between your ears.0 -
Drowned Out wrote:
Can you give a single example of a poster in this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that has changed their stance on the war based on which president is in office? People put way more faith in Obama than I was comfortable seeing, and some gave him more slack than he deserved while he got his bearings in office....but I can't think of anyone who gave him a pass on the wars. Everyone that was against them then, is still against them.mb262200 wrote:
Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?
Never ceases to amaze me how people make something so important into a fucking schoolyard squabble over whose daddy is tougher.
They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.0 -
nuffingman wrote:
Considering I am the only person with "south of england" in my location I can only assume that "the little puke from south of england" is me. I'm a bit puzzled why I deserve this unwarranted attack as I've only made 2 posts in this thread.mb262200 wrote:vedderman71 wrote:I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
I realize WWII was several decades ago, but my Grandfather didn't take bullet in vain so you folks weren't forced to become Nazis and speak German. Whenever the world gets in a skirmish, many turn to the US for help. We ARE the World's police, so be it.
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that we, as proud Americans, tend to take exception to people attacking innocent people; let alone Our Own innocent.
The Known Terrorist that are confined at Gitmo are the same people Recruiting the suicide bombers, Training young people how to fire an AK-47 at the innocent. Many of the detainees were on CIA and FBI "whatch lists" that were basically "observed" during the weak Clinton administration.
If you want to sit back and take unfounded ignorant cheap shots at the US from the confort of your peaceful home-town, then that is your choice. Or, you could ask the newly liberated Iraqi people what they think of their recently new found freedoms.
Also, maybe travel to New York City and ask the survivors and family members of those lost on 9/11 what Their Opinion of closing GITMO would be. You think their response would be: "Sure, show compassion upon those whom helped plan gruesome attacks on the innocent. Hell let all move to NYC so they can be our neighbors!"
Better yet, let's ship these fine detainees to Poland, South England and Canada.
Hell even France "volunteered" to take ONE prisoner! How brave of Frenchie...but what else would you expect?
Thank You Vedderman.I am not so good with words and you said it all for me.....I hope the little puke from south of england reads this!!!!!
The first questioned the right of locking up people without giving them a trial. I thought this was reasonable.
The second actually questioned a comment made by Vedderman71 in the very post you quoted. I would have thought it obvious I had read his post if I questioned it.
Perhaps you are "not so good with words" due to the acute lack of brain cells between your ears.
Sorry, not you, my mistake.0 -
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i don't really follow your logic here. what does you seeing a pearl jam show when soulsinging was 12, have to do with anything?vedderman71 wrote:I feel no need to defend Who I Am and What I am to some one who has seen the world 11 years less than I have. My point about the shows I've seen was that I was into Pearl Jam while this guy was 12.0
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