Actually brandon10, if you had any well sourced knowledge other than your ignorant brief hash-pipe induced opinions you spew here, one of Eddie's best friends was Johnny Ramone, well known right-wing conservative. Johnny and Ed spent many hours playing Johnny's juke-box of classic rock and discussing not rock 'n roll, but...wait...Politics. (Rolling Stone) And you prove your inability to debate by "quoting" my post and telling me I'm not worth your time, yet while not making any valid points to re-buff my quotes from the known liberal public domain known as NPR.
I was able to get 2nd row @ the Champaign, IL show back in April of '03, just after the band was taking heat for "Bushleager." I had a custom made T-shirt w/ "Bushbacker" on the back and "Conservatives have feelings too" on the front. The girls in the front row ahead of me got Ed's attention during the bridge of "Alive," and we showed him my shirt. Ed got a big smile and gave me a thumbs up.
The point of this whole mess is give a damn, don't stay on the side-lines and criticize others while not having a well found factual point of your own.
He who casts stones in a glass house...
Game on brandon10...and I'm "Wicked Smart" and have shot down much bigger fish than your lame un-founded takes a long time ago. Bring IT!
Seriuosly?? You are comparing yourself to Johnny Ramone?! :roll: I guess that's what "wicked smart" people do? How smart do you have to be to realize you are a complete douchebag? Would that be "crazy smart"? Or "super duper smart"? Or "out of this world smart"? Oh I know...it's "Sarah Palin smart"! That's what you are...."Sarah Palin smart". You should really change your name from Vedderman to Sarah Palin smart.
Oh and hey SarahPalinsmart, I know how Eddie feels about conservitive know it alls like you because I talked with him about it. See that picture on the right? That's Eddie and I. I talked politics with him. And trust me, everything you say here in this thread would disgust him!!!
You are more of an enemy to the United States than a peace loving Persian.
HAHAHA, And what did you have that was so inteligent to say to Eddie....YEAH MAN OBAMA FREAKIN RULES DUDE!
are you going to contribute to the thread or indulge us with your name calling as usual? you have made no attempt to participate in the discussion other than mock other posters's posts. by all means, tell me what your thoughts are on gitmo.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Ok, to answer the last post...I'll answer with a question.
Say the U.S. closes Gitmo...then what? I have yet to see any one's plan on what you do next?
So as a right-wing ignorant dumbass, here's my plan.
Go to the arresting agent/officer and prosecutor and find out which prisoners do we have the LEAST amount of evidence against. Give those detainees their day in court First.
Form a "judge and jury" of a U.N. appointed counsel. Hell put a Canadian and accrosstheOceans on there
If found innocent, send them to their home-land. To appease the Pepe's of the World, compinsate them, offer our apologies. (Realizing that's not enough, but this is hypothical)
Ok, now the difficult part...
You try the remaining detainees. For the "left" side of the discussion it's half or more of those held (for sake of argument, hell we have to be 50 % accurate) the unbiased "jury" finds 50 % guilty of "war crimes."
The villians recruited children to be suicide bombers. They trained 15 yr. old impressionable minds to turn guns on the innocent...etc., et. al.
So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
I believe that's where Both the Bush And the Obama adinistration find themselves. The World's eyes are obviously upon us, what's the next step?
My right wing ass says execute them and be done with it all...but I'm sure many of you have a problem with that...
I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
The villians recruited children to be suicide bombers. They trained 15 yr. old impressionable minds to turn guns on the innocent...etc., et. al.
So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
sure. i dont give a fuck. put them in the mansfield pen, right down the road from me. what the fuck do you think they are, x-men or something? those guys will spend the rest of their lives getting their shit fucked up in ways you and i can't imagine courtesy of gangbangers from even the most tame american cities. you don't give us enough credit... it's not us that should be afraid of them in our prisons, it's them who should be shitting themselves at the thought of going to our prisons.
Ok, but at least we don't just turn 'em lose, that's my point.
It would be cheaper to spend the money on the ammo or meds to execute them...Ha, not really!
I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
Ok, but at least we don't just turn 'em lose, that's my point.
It would be cheaper to spend the money on the ammo or meds to execute them...Ha, not really!
execution is expensive in the us. way more so than life in prison. and probably a whole lot more merciful too.
I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
I realize WWII was several decades ago, but my Grandfather didn't take bullet in vain so you folks weren't forced to become Nazis and speak German. Whenever the world gets in a skirmish, many turn to the US for help. We ARE the World's police, so be it.
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that we, as proud Americans, tend to take exception to people attacking innocent people; let alone Our Own innocent.
The Known Terrorist that are confined at Gitmo are the same people Recruiting the suicide bombers, Training young people how to fire an AK-47 at the innocent. Many of the detainees were on CIA and FBI "whatch lists" that were basically "observed" during the weak Clinton administration.
If you want to sit back and take unfounded ignorant cheap shots at the US from the confort of your peaceful home-town, then that is your choice. Or, you could ask the newly liberated Iraqi people what they think of their recently new found freedoms.
Also, maybe travel to New York City and ask the survivors and family members of those lost on 9/11 what Their Opinion of closing GITMO would be. You think their response would be: "Sure, show compassion upon those whom helped plan gruesome attacks on the innocent. Hell let all move to NYC so they can be our neighbors!"
Better yet, let's ship these fine detainees to Poland, South England and Canada.
Hell even France "volunteered" to take ONE prisoner! How brave of Frenchie...but what else would you expect?
Thank You Vedderman.I am not so good with words and you said it all for me.....I hope the little puke from south of england reads this!!!!!
Considering I am the only person with "south of england" in my location I can only assume that "the little puke from south of england" is me. I'm a bit puzzled why I deserve this unwarranted attack as I've only made 2 posts in this thread.
The first questioned the right of locking up people without giving them a trial. I thought this was reasonable.
The second actually questioned a comment made by Vedderman71 in the very post you quoted. I would have thought it obvious I had read his post if I questioned it.
Perhaps you are "not so good with words" due to the acute lack of brain cells between your ears.
Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?
Can you give a single example of a poster in this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that has changed their stance on the war based on which president is in office? People put way more faith in Obama than I was comfortable seeing, and some gave him more slack than he deserved while he got his bearings in office....but I can't think of anyone who gave him a pass on the wars. Everyone that was against them then, is still against them.
Never ceases to amaze me how people make something so important into a fucking schoolyard squabble over whose daddy is tougher.
They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.
I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
I realize WWII was several decades ago, but my Grandfather didn't take bullet in vain so you folks weren't forced to become Nazis and speak German. Whenever the world gets in a skirmish, many turn to the US for help. We ARE the World's police, so be it.
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that we, as proud Americans, tend to take exception to people attacking innocent people; let alone Our Own innocent.
The Known Terrorist that are confined at Gitmo are the same people Recruiting the suicide bombers, Training young people how to fire an AK-47 at the innocent. Many of the detainees were on CIA and FBI "whatch lists" that were basically "observed" during the weak Clinton administration.
If you want to sit back and take unfounded ignorant cheap shots at the US from the confort of your peaceful home-town, then that is your choice. Or, you could ask the newly liberated Iraqi people what they think of their recently new found freedoms.
Also, maybe travel to New York City and ask the survivors and family members of those lost on 9/11 what Their Opinion of closing GITMO would be. You think their response would be: "Sure, show compassion upon those whom helped plan gruesome attacks on the innocent. Hell let all move to NYC so they can be our neighbors!"
Better yet, let's ship these fine detainees to Poland, South England and Canada.
Hell even France "volunteered" to take ONE prisoner! How brave of Frenchie...but what else would you expect?
Thank You Vedderman.I am not so good with words and you said it all for me.....I hope the little puke from south of england reads this!!!!!
Considering I am the only person with "south of england" in my location I can only assume that "the little puke from south of england" is me. I'm a bit puzzled why I deserve this unwarranted attack as I've only made 2 posts in this thread.
The first questioned the right of locking up people without giving them a trial. I thought this was reasonable.
The second actually questioned a comment made by Vedderman71 in the very post you quoted. I would have thought it obvious I had read his post if I questioned it.
Perhaps you are "not so good with words" due to the acute lack of brain cells between your ears.
I feel no need to defend Who I Am and What I am to some one who has seen the world 11 years less than I have. My point about the shows I've seen was that I was into Pearl Jam while this guy was 12.
i don't really follow your logic here. what does you seeing a pearl jam show when soulsinging was 12, have to do with anything?
So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
I believe that's where Both the Bush And the Obama adinistration find themselves. The World's eyes are obviously upon us, what's the next step?
you bet the worlds eyes are on you. the administration has already tried to convince other countries to take some of the detainees. here's a thought, the administration should take responsibility, and clean up their own freaking mess.
if evidence exists (without torture), give them a fair trial, and if convicted , then sentence them to max security prisons.
If there is no evidence, or if they are found innocent, set them free.
So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
I believe that's where Both the Bush And the Obama adinistration find themselves. The World's eyes are obviously upon us, what's the next step?
you bet the worlds eyes are on you. the administration has already tried to convince other countries to take some of the detainees. here's a thought, the administration should take responsibility, and clean up their own freaking mess.
if evidence exists (without torture), give them a fair trial, and if convicted , then sentence them to max security prisons.
If there is no evidence, or if they are found innocent, set them free.
Agreed! One of the most sensible posts on here. It alarms me that these detainees are regarded as violent terrorists when they haven't had a trial. Some have already been released because of lack of any evidence.
If they are found guilty in a court with acceptable evidence I'd be quite happy to see them shot. Without the trials America is left with this huge stain on it's reputation and any declaration of being a leading democratic state in tatters. I don't think the majority of Americans deserve this.
the issue with Gitmo is strictly related to public opinion ... they CANNOT give these prisoners a fair trial simply because many would be set free ... then the world would realize that these prisoners were not treated according to international conventions that the rest of the world abides by ... for the most part - these prisoners do not have many advocates - they are young men caught up in the biggest farce ever perpertrated by the evil and greedy ... the "kid" from canada should have been repatrioted back to Canada long ago as basically they already know he is innocent of the crime they have him there for ... it is a FACT that they know he's innocent ... the shitty part is that we have a right wing gov't in Canada that is racist and ultimately have not done what they should to get him out ... so, basically his only advocate are human rights organizations and ngo's in Canada ...
they are basically figuring out now how they can close this prison without taking yet another hit in public opinion ... i'm guessing they haven't figured that out yet ...
the issue with Gitmo is strictly related to public opinion ... they CANNOT give these prisoners a fair trial simply because many would be set free ... then the world would realize that these prisoners were not treated according to international conventions that the rest of the world abides by ... for the most part - these prisoners do not have many advocates - they are young men caught up in the biggest farce ever perpertrated by the evil and greedy ... the "kid" from canada should have been repatrioted back to Canada long ago as basically they already know he is innocent of the crime they have him there for ... it is a FACT that they know he's innocent ... the shitty part is that we have a right wing gov't in Canada that is racist and ultimately have not done what they should to get him out ... so, basically his only advocate are human rights organizations and ngo's in Canada ...
they are basically figuring out now how they can close this prison without taking yet another hit in public opinion ... i'm guessing they haven't figured that out yet ...
all the more reason to do it now so he can say it was dubya's idea and he put a stop to it. the longer ti continues on his watch, the less anyone will believe him if he later tries to claim he never condoned what was going on there.
I knew better than to reason with any of you libs.
My point about Ed enjoying talking politics is that we all don't have to agree but a discussion and dialog can be good. I used to debate a buddy of mine, but we spin ourselves back to the same basic fundamental diffrences.
One man's mind sharpens another man's like metal to metal, sword to sword...bet none of you even get that refernce and the "Source."
The 2 things I referenced were in "defense" the cheap shot from soulsinging who wrote:
"...central indiana full of good, red-blooded, ww2 vet descended, commie-hatin, bible-lovin REAL americans."
I feel no need to defend Who I Am and What I am to some one who has seen the world 11 years less than I have. My point about the shows I've seen was that I was into Pearl Jam while this guy was 12.
So I HAVE seen plenty...and I ask myself as I write this and I'm thinking, "Why the hell do I give fuck what people I have never met and have NO idea who I am or What I am really like?"
Just like I'm tired of defending who I am, I don't think we need to pander all our critics all over the world.
The U.S. can't be run by a suggestion box or opinion polls like Clinton's did.
Doing the Right Thing is Not always the Popular thing. That's what libs and socialist (same thing these days) do Not seem to have the abilty to wrap their brains around.
Pepe your comment about "The Greatest Generation" makes my skin crawl. If you are living in the U.S., let me offer to buy your plane ticket straight the hell outta here. Your lack of appreciation of sacrifices made by previous generations is exactly what is weakening this Country, day by day, hour by hour. Makes me literally sick in the pit of my stomach.
And one last thing Pepe, leave me to feeding the World, you keep on being Pepe....your ignorance on agriculture shows how far most have grown away from the land that feeds us.
i love how you come in here and call people names in your first post of different threads continually and then cry about how disagreeing is a good thing and try to blame it all on soulsinging as if you weren't being insulting towards everyone well before his post :roll:
you poor, poor martyr
if you notice what i said about Tom Brokaw was in quotes as it was a quote from Talladega Nights. also both of my grandfathers served in ww2, 1 of them even liberated a death camp. the fact that you have a relative who was in the war does fuckall towards the point of gitmo just as my relatives have nothing to do with this topic, either. it really doesn't lead any credence to any argument you are trying to make
you keep talking about my ignorance on agriculture yet i provided you with several links in that thread, which you never bothered to reply to....wow, just like you never bother to reply to any questions here, instead you toss around names, try to degrade people and act holier than thou like you've seen it all and know it all
get over yourself
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
I realize WWII was several decades ago, but my Grandfather didn't take bullet in vain so you folks weren't forced to become Nazis and speak German. Whenever the world gets in a skirmish, many turn to the US for help. We ARE the World's police, so be it.
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that we, as proud Americans, tend to take exception to people attacking innocent people; let alone Our Own innocent.
The Known Terrorist that are confined at Gitmo are the same people Recruiting the suicide bombers, Training young people how to fire an AK-47 at the innocent. Many of the detainees were on CIA and FBI "whatch lists" that were basically "observed" during the weak Clinton administration.
If you want to sit back and take unfounded ignorant cheap shots at the US from the confort of your peaceful home-town, then that is your choice. Or, you could ask the newly liberated Iraqi people what they think of their recently new found freedoms.
Also, maybe travel to New York City and ask the survivors and family members of those lost on 9/11 what Their Opinion of closing GITMO would be. You think their response would be: "Sure, show compassion upon those whom helped plan gruesome attacks on the innocent. Hell let all move to NYC so they can be our neighbors!"
Better yet, let's ship these fine detainees to Poland, South England and Canada.
Hell even France "volunteered" to take ONE prisoner! How brave of Frenchie...but what else would you expect?
Thank You Vedderman.I am not so good with words and you said it all for me.....I hope the little puke from south of england reads this!!!!!
maybe you 2 should look into how to respectfully disagree with someone? i don't mind disagreeing with someone, i just don't see a need in being a dick about it. not everyone has the same opinion as me and i'm not going to have the same opinion as me, that's just how the world is
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I haven't posted in here in a while because I've been busy with Capitalistic endevors of Commerce. It's a really interesting concept Commy should look into. Basically, you do work producing and selling goods, and then...wait for it ...you get PAID for your goods or services; in this case the harvest of soybeans and corn in order for us to feed the World!
Accross Oceans, I can't even begin to imagine what life is like in your part of the world, nor could I even begin to comment on your culture or lifestyle. Having said that, I wouldn't trade where I live with any one, let alone any one in this thread. I sicerely wish you well, and when/if you can make it to the U.S., I invite you to Central Indiana and we can have a good discussion over a beverage.
Pepe your ignorance on anything American was shown in the threads regarding U.S. agriculture. The "newsources" (I am using that term lightly) you site are internet sites with a strong agenda where they have little to no creditability as valid world news. And most Americans with any common sense see the NY Times as a Verrry Slanted liberal rag with a very strong agenda. Common Dreams?? How very socialist of you, I''m sure Commy luvs that site.
And Commy, the next time I give Frenchie any credit is when I support its nude beaches; or else I get more vacation days (they're on holiday about half the year) or when I work on my appreciation of fine wines. The reason why I sited their agriculture trade policies was to reference the "elitest" view of themselves, yet they continue to limit the amount of wheat that flows into Ethopia. AND the French government is shackling its farmers by not allowing them to use genetically modified crops and won't import such grain. And Before you all show your ignorance on this topic just know the FDA, USDA and the EPA have all endorsed these technologies. These advances actually allow growers to use LESS pesticides and chemicals by modifying a protein in the parent seed. Now EU scientists and universities are endorsing these technologies, but the French politians won't reverse their stance.
And the French revolt because their government is a JOKE. The U.S. has revolution" every 2 to 4 years...it's called an Election. Democracy....hmmm yes, you can say it DEMOCRACY.
Gimmesometruth: I truly feel sorry for you having such a poor opinion of the U.S. military. And I won't apologize to any one for taking my grandfather's involvement in WWII so personal. Just to let you all know how your painting with broad strokes paints a VERY Inaccurate picture of the World, let alone the U.S. and our troops. My Grandfather Lied about his age so he could fight for his country. He said he was 18 when in fact he just turned 17. So he DID NOT get drafted, he enlisted. When the U.S. gets attacked, we kind of take it personal. My younger buddy who just got back from Iraq, he ENLISTED after 9/11. He walked away from a great construction job to serve. One of my friend's brother re-upped for a THIRD tour and left his newly-wed wife at home for another year tour because of his Education in communication technology he is needed over in Iraq.
Johnny Sitar: finding thousands of gallons of chemical weapons that Hussien used on his own people isn't enough for ya, is it? Advanced techinical drawing and plans for nuclear developement and enrichment not enough either? You think Hussien's minions were just trying to study up to broaden their horizons? What makes me laugh is that any proof is never enough for libs. Your neivity on whether or not WMD were destroyed or sold baffles me. You think Iraq, Iran, N. Korea and Al Quida exchange receipts on WMD? Iraq kept the UN, the U.S. and the World at it's borders and check points for well over a month. What do you really think they were doing that whole time? Tidying up the place, getting records in order?
Liberals and many in this thread have very interesting way of "estimating" the number of civilian casualties. So I did a little research of my own, thinking at first to go to Fox News, but I knew you all wouldn't appreciate their figures. So what I have here is an excert from a recent interview from NPR:
CONAN: Joining us now is Nicholas Goldberg, a deputy editor at the Los Angeles Times. He works on the editorial pages there. Last month, he wrote a piece called "The Rules of War" and joins us from the studios at the Los Angeles Times. Nice to have you with us today.
Mr. NICHOLAS GOLDBERG (Deputy Editor, Los Angeles Times; Author, "The Rules of War"): Nice to be here.
CONAN: And as we mentioned very briefly, in the past, by comparison with previous wars, Afghanistan, even Iraq, are miniscule.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Oh yeah, they're really quite small. The Brookings Institution estimates that about, you know, 5,000 or a little more civilians have died in the war between 2006 and 2009. If you look at Iraq, that number's closer to 60,000. If you look at Vietnam, the number of civilians who died was in the millions, and in World War II, nearly 40 million non-combatants were killed. World War I, there were about six million non-combatants killed. So you can see that the numbers in Afghanistan, although worrisome, although bad, are much, much, much smaller.
And normally I wouldn't give much credit to the L.A. Times, another liberal rag, but those are the facts they site...
Chew on that...back to harvest my genetically engineered grain!
Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?
Obama's bombing Sicily!?!?!? :shock:
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Seriously Vedderman71, do you have any proof that Any good hard evidence of WMD was destroyed or moved (or sold) while the UN was jacking around or are you just always throwing out half-truths hoping your theories might actually stick to the wall?
any chance in you answering this or are you going to just continue to insult people? i've answered all of your questions you''ve asked of me and even provided links
same old, same old. if there is no hard proof then the U.S. must be shit.
what? it seems pretty standard if a person makes a claim they should be able to back it up, as i did when he's asked me a question
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Ok, but at least we don't just turn 'em lose, that's my point.
It would be cheaper to spend the money on the ammo or meds to execute them...Ha, not really!
did anyone suggest just letting everyone go?
however there are some that get kidnapped and tortured who have done nothing at all
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I feel no need to defend Who I Am and What I am to some one who has seen the world 11 years less than I have. My point about the shows I've seen was that I was into Pearl Jam while this guy was 12.
i don't really follow your logic here. what does you seeing a pearl jam show when soulsinging was 12, have to do with anything?
didn't you see??? Eddie smiled at him and gave him a thumbs up, that makes ALL the difference in the world!
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
Is this a joke?
Have you ever spoken to any South Americans? Iraqis? Iranians? Palestinians? Libyans? Haitians? Vietnamese?
thank you... i made that point sometime earlier..."new found freedoms" my ass... when you've got foreign soldiers in your country, they're "terrorists" in uniform to the locals.... the sooner everyone realizes that the better....
I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.
Is this a joke?
Have you ever spoken to any South Americans? Iraqis? Iranians? Palestinians? Libyans? Haitians? Vietnamese?
thank you... i made that point sometime earlier..."new found freedoms" my ass... when you've got foreign soldiers in your country, they're "terrorists" in uniform to the locals.... the sooner everyone realizes that the better....
exactly. nobody ever stops to ask themselves if we might be the ones viewed as terrorists. if they did, they would have completely different views on the wars and gitmo.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
thank you... i made that point sometime earlier..."new found freedoms" my ass... when you've got foreign soldiers in your country, they're "terrorists" in uniform to the locals.... the sooner everyone realizes that the better....
exactly. nobody ever stops to ask themselves if we might be the ones viewed as terrorists. if they did, they would have completely different views on the wars and gitmo.
one mans terorist is another mans freedom fighter.
i remember when nelson mandela was branded a terrorist.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
thank you... i made that point sometime earlier..."new found freedoms" my ass... when you've got foreign soldiers in your country, they're "terrorists" in uniform to the locals.... the sooner everyone realizes that the better....
exactly. nobody ever stops to ask themselves if we might be the ones viewed as terrorists. if they did, they would have completely different views on the wars and gitmo.
one mans terorist is another mans freedom fighter.
i remember when nelson mandela was branded a terrorist.
good point, except for the fact that our soldiers over there are not freedom fighters.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?
Can you give a single example of a poster in this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that has changed their stance on the war based on which president is in office? People put way more faith in Obama than I was comfortable seeing, and some gave him more slack than he deserved while he got his bearings in office....but I can't think of anyone who gave him a pass on the wars. Everyone that was against them then, is still against them.
Never ceases to amaze me how people make something so important into a fucking schoolyard squabble over whose daddy is tougher.
They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.
i'll agree with that, but i think part of it is they are embarrassed and feel foolish to have made all these claims about how Obama was going to end the wars and bring the troops home (and would be the most liberal president in history) and how they attacked anyone who thought different and they don't want to have to admit to being wrong
others are just purely partisan and will never admit to anything but instead find ways to justify it regardless, sadly this happens on both sides of the single corporate duopoly fence.
and others are probably giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and giving him some time before getting angry. i think when it gets to a full year in office more people will start wondering just when this change we can believe in is supposed to start happening.
it was sad during the campaign to see so many 'progressives' suddenly embrace things like the patriot act, NAFTA, nuclear energy....when they had railed against it for Bush's terms. just goes to show how some are more interested in being the king of the hill for a few years than any real progress
though, to be fair, i have seen some people who were pretty big Obama supporters voice their displeasure on the wars and other issues....but yeah, no more daily 'bring them the fuck home NOW' threads but then he's a hardcore Obama supporter so you really can't expect to see those threads anymore criticizing their guy
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
exactly. nobody ever stops to ask themselves if we might be the ones viewed as terrorists. if they did, they would have completely different views on the wars and gitmo.
one mans terorist is another mans freedom fighter.
i remember when nelson mandela was branded a terrorist.
good point, except for the fact that our soldiers over there are not freedom fighters.
it was not my intention to imply they were.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.
really? maybe you don't want to admit that they ARE outspoken about issues. take this thread for an example.
i can see people who voted for obama, expressing disgust at the Gitmo situation and expressing their views to close it the fuck down already (as promised).
They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.
i'll agree with that, but i think part of it is they are embarrassed and feel foolish to have made all these claims about how Obama was going to end the wars and bring the troops home (and would be the most liberal president in history) and how they attacked anyone who thought different and they don't want to have to admit to being wrong
others are just purely partisan and will never admit to anything but instead find ways to justify it regardless, sadly this happens on both sides of the single corporate duopoly fence.
and others are probably giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and giving him some time before getting angry. i think when it gets to a full year in office more people will start wondering just when this change we can believe in is supposed to start happening.
it was sad during the campaign to see so many 'progressives' suddenly embrace things like the patriot act, NAFTA, nuclear energy....when they had railed against it for Bush's terms. just goes to show how some are more interested in being the king of the hill for a few years than any real progress
though, to be fair, i have seen some people who were pretty big Obama supporters voice their displeasure on the wars and other issues....but yeah, no more daily 'bring them the fuck home NOW' threads but then he's a hardcore Obama supporter so you really can't expect to see those threads anymore criticizing their guy
you know, i've stated my reasons for voting for obama plenty, and truth is i still don't regret that vote. it came down to a choice between 2 candidates. you can play the third party bullshit game all you want but they are never going to get elected without a fundamental changing of the way parties are financed. they are too much of a longshot and too much is a at stake., we gave the world W when we played that game, when we tried to get nader his 5%.
i learned what not to do when bush was re-elected, its too big. this is empire. what we do here affects the world. so fuck off if i'm wasting a vote on the working family party or the green party again, we have to face a reality.
that we trade a militant capitalist for a militant capitalist every 4 or 8 years. the structure is set/ voting does very little. try to find an example of significant social progress that didn't involve millions of people demanding it? just one fundamental shift in the way power operates, without general upheaval and popular protests and strikes. we're not changing anything fundamental with a vote. and I knew that going in.
so for me the choice was very simple. who did i want to unleash on the world? for all we know we'd be in Iran right now if McCain had been elected, or sanctioning some other third world country that is already struggling to feed its people.
and i'm not happy with how obama has been doing things. he's started out pretending he cared about he majority in the US and has now seems to be catering to the corporate elite. foreign polciy is typical. i'm disappointed in that. but i wasn't fooled.
and i dont' regret my vote. i would have regretted it if we tried to get another nader in and someone even worse got elected.
and i think we unleashed the right guy. who knows how much worse mccain would have been. we sure as hell wouldn't be having a healthcare debate or talking about closing gitmo. and iran seems to be out of the question for now.
you know, i've stated my reasons for voting for obama plenty, and truth is i still don't regret that vote. it came down to a choice between 2 candidates. you can play the third party bullshit game all you want but they are never going to get elected without a fundamental changing of the way parties are financed. they are too much of a longshot and too much is a at stake., we gave the world W when we played that game, when we tried to get nader his 5%.
i learned what not to do when bush was re-elected, its too big. this is empire. what we do here affects the world. so fuck off if i'm wasting a vote on the working family party or the green party again, we have to face a reality.
that we trade a militant capitalist for a militant capitalist every 4 or 8 years. the structure is set/ voting does very little. try to find an example of significant social progress that didn't involve millions of people demanding it? just one fundamental shift in the way power operates, without general upheaval and popular protests and strikes. we're not changing anything fundamental with a vote. and I knew that going in.
so for me the choice was very simple. who did i want to unleash on the world? for all we know we'd be in Iran right now if McCain had been elected, or sanctioning some other third world country that is already struggling to feed its people.
and i'm not happy with how obama has been doing things. he's started out pretending he cared about he majority in the US and has now seems to be catering to the corporate elite. foreign polciy is typical. i'm disappointed in that. but i wasn't fooled.
and i dont' regret my vote. i would have regretted it if we tried to get another nader in and someone even worse got elected.
and i think we unleashed the right guy. who knows how much worse mccain would have been. we sure as hell wouldn't be having a healthcare debate or talking about closing gitmo. and iran seems to be out of the question for now.
great post commy. this mirrors my thoughts exactly.
Comments
are you going to contribute to the thread or indulge us with your name calling as usual? you have made no attempt to participate in the discussion other than mock other posters's posts. by all means, tell me what your thoughts are on gitmo.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Say the U.S. closes Gitmo...then what? I have yet to see any one's plan on what you do next?
So as a right-wing ignorant dumbass, here's my plan.
Go to the arresting agent/officer and prosecutor and find out which prisoners do we have the LEAST amount of evidence against. Give those detainees their day in court First.
Form a "judge and jury" of a U.N. appointed counsel. Hell put a Canadian and accrosstheOceans on there
If found innocent, send them to their home-land. To appease the Pepe's of the World, compinsate them, offer our apologies. (Realizing that's not enough, but this is hypothical)
Ok, now the difficult part...
You try the remaining detainees. For the "left" side of the discussion it's half or more of those held (for sake of argument, hell we have to be 50 % accurate) the unbiased "jury" finds 50 % guilty of "war crimes."
The villians recruited children to be suicide bombers. They trained 15 yr. old impressionable minds to turn guns on the innocent...etc., et. al.
So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
I believe that's where Both the Bush And the Obama adinistration find themselves. The World's eyes are obviously upon us, what's the next step?
My right wing ass says execute them and be done with it all...but I'm sure many of you have a problem with that...
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
sure. i dont give a fuck. put them in the mansfield pen, right down the road from me. what the fuck do you think they are, x-men or something? those guys will spend the rest of their lives getting their shit fucked up in ways you and i can't imagine courtesy of gangbangers from even the most tame american cities. you don't give us enough credit... it's not us that should be afraid of them in our prisons, it's them who should be shitting themselves at the thought of going to our prisons.
It would be cheaper to spend the money on the ammo or meds to execute them...Ha, not really!
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
execution is expensive in the us. way more so than life in prison. and probably a whole lot more merciful too.
The first questioned the right of locking up people without giving them a trial. I thought this was reasonable.
The second actually questioned a comment made by Vedderman71 in the very post you quoted. I would have thought it obvious I had read his post if I questioned it.
Perhaps you are "not so good with words" due to the acute lack of brain cells between your ears.
They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.
Sorry, not you, my mistake.
Have a nice day!
if evidence exists (without torture), give them a fair trial, and if convicted , then sentence them to max security prisons.
If there is no evidence, or if they are found innocent, set them free.
If they are found guilty in a court with acceptable evidence I'd be quite happy to see them shot. Without the trials America is left with this huge stain on it's reputation and any declaration of being a leading democratic state in tatters. I don't think the majority of Americans deserve this.
they are basically figuring out now how they can close this prison without taking yet another hit in public opinion ... i'm guessing they haven't figured that out yet ...
Is this a joke?
Have you ever spoken to any South Americans? Iraqis? Iranians? Palestinians? Libyans? Haitians? Vietnamese?
all the more reason to do it now so he can say it was dubya's idea and he put a stop to it. the longer ti continues on his watch, the less anyone will believe him if he later tries to claim he never condoned what was going on there.
i love how you come in here and call people names in your first post of different threads continually and then cry about how disagreeing is a good thing and try to blame it all on soulsinging as if you weren't being insulting towards everyone well before his post :roll:
you poor, poor martyr
if you notice what i said about Tom Brokaw was in quotes as it was a quote from Talladega Nights. also both of my grandfathers served in ww2, 1 of them even liberated a death camp. the fact that you have a relative who was in the war does fuckall towards the point of gitmo just as my relatives have nothing to do with this topic, either. it really doesn't lead any credence to any argument you are trying to make
you keep talking about my ignorance on agriculture yet i provided you with several links in that thread, which you never bothered to reply to....wow, just like you never bother to reply to any questions here, instead you toss around names, try to degrade people and act holier than thou like you've seen it all and know it all
get over yourself
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
maybe you 2 should look into how to respectfully disagree with someone? i don't mind disagreeing with someone, i just don't see a need in being a dick about it. not everyone has the same opinion as me and i'm not going to have the same opinion as me, that's just how the world is
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Obama's bombing Sicily!?!?!? :shock:
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
what? it seems pretty standard if a person makes a claim they should be able to back it up, as i did when he's asked me a question
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
did anyone suggest just letting everyone go?
however there are some that get kidnapped and tortured who have done nothing at all
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
didn't you see??? Eddie smiled at him and gave him a thumbs up, that makes ALL the difference in the world!
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
thank you... i made that point sometime earlier..."new found freedoms" my ass... when you've got foreign soldiers in your country, they're "terrorists" in uniform to the locals.... the sooner everyone realizes that the better....
exactly. nobody ever stops to ask themselves if we might be the ones viewed as terrorists. if they did, they would have completely different views on the wars and gitmo.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
one mans terorist is another mans freedom fighter.
i remember when nelson mandela was branded a terrorist.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i'll agree with that, but i think part of it is they are embarrassed and feel foolish to have made all these claims about how Obama was going to end the wars and bring the troops home (and would be the most liberal president in history) and how they attacked anyone who thought different and they don't want to have to admit to being wrong
others are just purely partisan and will never admit to anything but instead find ways to justify it regardless, sadly this happens on both sides of the single corporate duopoly fence.
and others are probably giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and giving him some time before getting angry. i think when it gets to a full year in office more people will start wondering just when this change we can believe in is supposed to start happening.
it was sad during the campaign to see so many 'progressives' suddenly embrace things like the patriot act, NAFTA, nuclear energy....when they had railed against it for Bush's terms. just goes to show how some are more interested in being the king of the hill for a few years than any real progress
though, to be fair, i have seen some people who were pretty big Obama supporters voice their displeasure on the wars and other issues....but yeah, no more daily 'bring them the fuck home NOW' threads but then he's a hardcore Obama supporter so you really can't expect to see those threads anymore criticizing their guy
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
it was not my intention to imply they were.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i can see people who voted for obama, expressing disgust at the Gitmo situation and expressing their views to close it the fuck down already (as promised).
you know, i've stated my reasons for voting for obama plenty, and truth is i still don't regret that vote. it came down to a choice between 2 candidates. you can play the third party bullshit game all you want but they are never going to get elected without a fundamental changing of the way parties are financed. they are too much of a longshot and too much is a at stake., we gave the world W when we played that game, when we tried to get nader his 5%.
i learned what not to do when bush was re-elected, its too big. this is empire. what we do here affects the world. so fuck off if i'm wasting a vote on the working family party or the green party again, we have to face a reality.
that we trade a militant capitalist for a militant capitalist every 4 or 8 years. the structure is set/ voting does very little. try to find an example of significant social progress that didn't involve millions of people demanding it? just one fundamental shift in the way power operates, without general upheaval and popular protests and strikes. we're not changing anything fundamental with a vote. and I knew that going in.
so for me the choice was very simple. who did i want to unleash on the world? for all we know we'd be in Iran right now if McCain had been elected, or sanctioning some other third world country that is already struggling to feed its people.
and i'm not happy with how obama has been doing things. he's started out pretending he cared about he majority in the US and has now seems to be catering to the corporate elite. foreign polciy is typical. i'm disappointed in that. but i wasn't fooled.
and i dont' regret my vote. i would have regretted it if we tried to get another nader in and someone even worse got elected.
and i think we unleashed the right guy. who knows how much worse mccain would have been. we sure as hell wouldn't be having a healthcare debate or talking about closing gitmo. and iran seems to be out of the question for now.