You Are Being Lied To About PIRATES

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  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    ajedigecko wrote:
    we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?


    you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


    how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
    they did it the American way instead.

    let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    edited April 2009
    Commy wrote:
    alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

    would you let them?

    first of all, its impossible to know if these stories are true about the dumping and "stealing" food. somalia has been a fucked up nation for a long time. I dont know who to blame on that one. truth be told, I do feel sorry for the pirates. most are forced into doing what they do out of hunger and desperation. but they also have other options available to them in which they ignore. I do give them credit though for not killing their captives. I could be wrong, but I dont hear much about them murdering people.
  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    edited April 2009
    Commy wrote:
    ajedigecko wrote:
    we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?


    you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


    how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
    they did it the American way instead.

    let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.
    i thought they were in the indian ocean........i am surprised it took them that long. it is good to know that obama is letting the world know that we will not negotiate with terrorists.
    Post edited by ajedigecko on
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • thebetterman
    thebetterman Posts: 657
    Commy wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    We'll why don't they buy commercial time. Besides I've never seen any of the other networks say this. So maybe you are making this up. They lost 4 yesterday maybe you can sign up since you sympathize with their cause.



    Somalis buy commercial time? are you serious?



    i don't even think there is such a thing. its an unregulated industry, that's the problem. the internationals are coming in and taking everything they can find, they don't need permits.

    why would internationals fish in water they dumped garbage in??? that doesn't add up.
    -one thing to remember, always have a good time, all the time
  • thebetterman
    thebetterman Posts: 657
    Commy wrote:
    ajedigecko wrote:
    we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?


    you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


    how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
    they did it the American way instead.

    let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.

    i'm guessing here, i would have thought they gave them water and food, being that there was an american onboard. like i said, just a guess
    -one thing to remember, always have a good time, all the time
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    ajedigecko wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    ajedigecko wrote:
    we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?


    you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


    how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
    they did it the American way instead.

    let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.
    i thought they were in the indian ocean........i am surprised it took them that long.
    :roll:
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    toxic waste has what to do with hijkacking ships full of innocent people and holding them ransom?





    Gandhi defeated the greatest empire on the planet without firing a shot...

    dont forget that the next time you are advocating violence as a solution...
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    In Noam Chomsky's book, "Pirates and Emperors, International Terrorism in the Real World", he tells this story, attributed to St. Augustine. A captured pirate was brought before Alexander the Great. "How dare you molest the sea?, said Alexander. How dare you molest the whole world?" replied the pirate and continued: "Because I do it with a little ship only I am called a thief; you, doing it with a great navy are called emperor."
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was “to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters … We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas.” William Scott would understand those words.
    emphasis mine.


    seems straightforward enough. stop polluting our waters and overfishing our seas. ok.

    ...This is the context in which the men we are calling “pirates” have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a “tax” on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coast Guard of Somalia - and it’s not hard to see why.
    emphasis mine.


    FROM THE UN.
    The UN Environment Programme (UNEP) reported the tsunami had washed up rusting containers of toxic waste on the shores of Puntland.

    Nick Nuttall, a UNEP spokesman, told Al Jazeera that when the barrels were smashed open by the force of the waves, the containers exposed a "frightening activity" that has been going on for more than decade.

    "Somalia has been used as a dumping ground for hazardous waste starting in the early 1990s, and continuing through the civil war there," he said.

    "European companies found it to be very cheap to get rid of the waste, costing as little as $2.50 a tonne, where waste disposal costs in Europe are something like $1000 a tonne.

    "And the waste is many different kinds. There is uranium radioactive waste. There is lead, and heavy metals like cadmium and mercury. There is also industrial waste, and there are hospital wastes, chemical wastes – you name it."

    Nuttall also said that since the containers came ashore, hundreds of residents have fallen ill, suffering from mouth and abdominal bleeding, skin infections and other ailments.

    "We [the UNEP] had planned to do a proper, in-depth scientific assessment on the magnitude of the problem. But because of the high levels of insecurity onshore and off the Somali coast, we are unable to carry out an accurate assessment of the extent of the problem," he said.

    However, Ould-Abdallah claims the practice still continues.

    "What is most alarming here is that nuclear waste is being dumped. Radioactive uranium waste that is potentially killing Somalis and completely destroying the ocean," he said.



    mm. a pirate leader claims he is trying to stop the illegal dumping and over fishing.

    the UN claims there has been illegal dumping going on.

    its been estimated that $300 million a year is fished from Somalia's coast....huge number for any country, especially for Somalia.


    its 1500 all over again. the Royal British Navy is telling stories about the evil pirates-a pure propaganda campaign. (pirates were known to free slaves back in the day). here we are again, with Western forces again calling for an end to piracy...with the same sort of propaganda being used to describe them. Think i'm rooting for the pirates.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,057
    Are not internationally recognized territorial waters considered to end 50 miles from a given counties coast?. These "fishermen" are going out as far as 450 miles. And furthermore , just how much of the ransom money is headed inland? Greed, pure and simple. High seas bank robbery.
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  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    one more thing (not to highjack the thread)


    but this all started when the government of Somalia collapsed in '91. the international forces move in, dumped toxic waste (cost $2 a ton in Somalia-$1000 a ton in europe) and started fishing the seas


    the fisherman banded together, almost organically, and sent out speed boats to collect taxes on the ships fishing the waters and dumping waste. it started as a tax. naturally the internationals refused. so the next time the fishermen brought guns.

    their actions were a response to what was being done to them.


    and when you consider $300 million is taken from Somali waters every year, taking action 450 miles out to sea seems completely justified.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,057
    Commy wrote:
    one more thing (not to highjack the thread)


    but this all started when the government of Somalia collapsed in '91. the international forces move in, dumped toxic waste (cost $2 a ton in Somalia-$1000 a ton in europe) and started fishing the seas


    the fisherman banded together, almost organically, and sent out speed boats to collect taxes on the ships fishing the waters and dumping waste. it started as a tax. naturally the internationals refused. so the next time the fishermen brought guns.

    their actions were a response to what was being done to them.


    and when you consider $300 million is taken from Somali waters every year, taking action 450 miles out to sea seems completely justified.
    So does capping their ass when they have hostages.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    mickeyrat wrote:
    So does capping their ass when they have hostages.


    which gives them the perfect excuse to do the same the next time they board a ship.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,057
    Commy wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    So does capping their ass when they have hostages.


    which gives them the perfect excuse to do the same the next time they board a ship.
    May take longer, but wouldn't you say electing SOME form of effective govrnment and working for a better solution than extortion would get more people behind their cause?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Of course that needs to be in the works, but the primary focus of these people is their own survival and making a living - correct? No one in Somalia asked for foreign business's and boats to basically steal their industry, yet they are forced to deal with the consequences. And because they have been backed into a corner, and many don't like their response, it's their fault? Can't have it both ways.
    mickeyrat wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    So does capping their ass when they have hostages.

    which gives them the perfect excuse to do the same the next time they board a ship.
    May take longer, but wouldn't you say electing SOME form of effective govrnment and working for a better solution than extortion would get more people behind their cause?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    There's always two sides to the story..

    I say blow them out of the waters!! ARRrrrrr!!!!

    Sorry. I had to.


    Yes, they are desperate for the money. They have every right to do what they are doing as we have to protect our interests.. Choose sides if you want. Its just humans being humans. Personally, I don't plan on taking any cruises of the Somalian coast anytime soon.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I agree. I also enjoy the fact how little media attention has gone to the fact that because the Suez Canal raised its usage fees, so as a result, companies are now sailing around Africa and putting themselves into more dangerous waters like what we see in this situation. Anything to save a buck.
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    There's always two sides to the story..

    Yes, they are desperate for the money. They have every right to do what they are doing as we have to protect our interests.. Choose sides if you want. Its just humans being humans. Personally, I don't plan on taking any cruises of the Somalian coast anytime soon.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • DinghyDog
    DinghyDog Posts: 587
    edited November 2012
    -
    Post edited by DinghyDog on
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,242
    thebetterman wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    thebetterman wrote:
    they are not freedom fighters by any means, they steal ships and sell them back for MONEY, not in return for not dumping waste.




    they gotta eat though. the international fishing fleets don't leave anything behind for them to catch.


    instead of pirate ships maybe they should all fish instead, and beat the fisherman to the fish?? You can't seriously be defending the hijacking of ships and kidnapping of sailors for ransom.

    I never said anything about defending or sympathetic to ALL the pirates in the written article, just that there's another side to this story and it should be looked at. I said what some of these pirates are doing is dead wrong and some are looking for a quick buck. However, because of this illegal activity those European ships that are dumping toxic waste off the Somali Coast are now thinking twice about doing so.

    We would have the same scenario here in America if we had NO military force to protect our coastline. Would you want this on your coast that could affect your health and cut off a food source. I certainly wouldn't want such actions here in Palm Beach Florida.

    So those pirates who choose to defend their country against foriegn coastline destruction should do so in whatever means necessary, MORE POWER to them.

    Peace
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  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    mickeyrat wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    mickeyrat wrote:
    So does capping their ass when they have hostages.


    which gives them the perfect excuse to do the same the next time they board a ship.
    May take longer, but wouldn't you say electing SOME form of effective govrnment and working for a better solution than extortion would get more people behind their cause?
    rules and laws......that would be the logical solution. except the people who are in control do not want rules and laws that are beneficial to their population.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.

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