You Are Being Lied To About PIRATES

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You Are Being Lied To About PIRATES

This is the context in which the men we are calling "pirates" have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a 'tax' on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and it's not hard to see why. In a su[rreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was "to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters... We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas." William Scott would understand those words.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But the "pirates" have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason. The independent Somalian news-site WardherNews conducted the best research we have into what ordinary Somalis are thinking - and it found 70 percent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence of the country's territorial waters." During the revolutionary war in America, George Washington and America's founding fathers paid pirates to protect America's territorial waters, because they had no navy or coastguard of their own. Most Americans supported them. Is this so different?

Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our nuclear waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We didn't act on those crimes - but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 percent of the world's oil supply, we begin to shriek about "evil." If we really want to deal with piracy, we need to stop its root cause - our crimes - before we send in the gun-boats to root out Somalia's criminals.

What some of theses pirates are doing is wrong in hijacking of these ships but can you blame some of them for "trying" to protect their country from European nuclear waste and having their fishery gouged?

This reminds me of that Bob Marley song.....REDEMPTION SONG

Old pirates, yes, they rob I;
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took I
From the bottomless pit.
But my hand was made strong
By the hand of the Almighty.
We forward in this generation
Triumphantly.
Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom?
'Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs,
Redemption songs.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look? Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fulfill the Book.

Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom?
'Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs,
Redemption songs,
Redemption songs.
---
/Guitar break/
---
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our mind.
Wo! Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them-a can-a stop-a the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look?
Yes, some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fulfill the book.
Won't you have to sing
These songs of freedom? -
'Cause all I ever had:
Redemption songs -
All I ever had:
Redemption songs:
These songs of freedom,
Songs of freedom.




Peace

Commy

I saw this the other day too.


the west comes, steals their resources, dumps toxic waste in their oceans, and wonders why there is resistance.


apparently the pirates are more organized than the term suggests.

thebetterman

they are not freedom fighters by any means, they steal ships and sell them back for MONEY, not in return for not dumping waste.

Commy

thebetterman wrote:

they are not freedom fighters by any means, they steal ships and sell them back for MONEY, not in return for not dumping waste.

they gotta eat though. the international fishing fleets don't leave anything behind for them to catch.

thebetterman

Commy wrote:

thebetterman wrote:

they are not freedom fighters by any means, they steal ships and sell them back for MONEY, not in return for not dumping waste.

they gotta eat though. the international fishing fleets don't leave anything behind for them to catch.

instead of pirate ships maybe they should all fish instead, and beat the fisherman to the fish?? You can't seriously be defending the hijacking of ships and kidnapping of sailors for ransom.

jlew24asu

a pirate sympathy thread? LOL only on AMT. :roll:

lukin2006

thebetterman wrote:

Commy wrote:

thebetterman wrote:

they are not freedom fighters by any means, they steal ships and sell them back for MONEY, not in return for not dumping waste.

they gotta eat though. the international fishing fleets don't leave anything behind for them to catch.

instead of pirate ships maybe they should all fish instead, and beat the fisherman to the fish?? You can't seriously be defending the hijacking of ships and kidnapping of sailors for ransom.

Unfortunately that is how many people on the left view things, its always the west fault, we're the reason for the pirates, just how insane some people's thinking is.

Commy

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

lukin2006

I would say the one remaining pirate should be shipped to gitmo, but their closing it so they'll probably try him in the US, he'll get a US lawyer funded by US tax dollars.

lukin2006

Commy wrote:

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

Well I've never heard the pirates with these particular complaints, so are you saying these pirates are using the money for good and cleaning up the water ways, helping restock the fish population, hiring laws firms in the countries that are causing the harm and suing these companies in their own country.

I can see it now an info commercial run by the pirates asking for donations.

ajedigecko

lukin2006 wrote:

Commy wrote:

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

Well I've never heard the pirates with these particular complaints, so are you saying these pirates are using the money for good and cleaning up the water ways, helping restock the fish population, hiring laws firms in the countries that are causing the harm and suing these companies in their own country.

I can see it now an info commercial run by the pirates asking for donations.

that is exactly what the pirates are doing..........you just do not know, due to the fact that somali news is being interferred with by fox news.

Commy

thebetterman wrote:

instead of pirate ships maybe they should all fish instead, and beat the fisherman to the fish?? You can't seriously be defending the hijacking of ships and kidnapping of sailors for ransom.

it doesn't work that way.


locals can't compete with international fishing fleets.

ajedigecko

jlew24asu wrote:

a pirate sympathy thread? LOL only on AMT. :roll:

this made me smile.

Commy

lukin2006 wrote:

Commy wrote:

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

Well I've never heard the pirates with these particular complaints, so are you saying these pirates are using the money for good and cleaning up the water ways, helping restock the fish population, hiring laws firms in the countries that are causing the harm and suing these companies in their own country.

I can see it now an info commercial run by the pirates asking for donations.

yeah that is exactly what i never said.


simple question.


would you let an international corporation come into your hometown, steal your resources, and dump its garbage everywhere?

lukin2006

ajedigecko wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Commy wrote:

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

Well I've never heard the pirates with these particular complaints, so are you saying these pirates are using the money for good and cleaning up the water ways, helping restock the fish population, hiring laws firms in the countries that are causing the harm and suing these companies in their own country.

I can see it now an info commercial run by the pirates asking for donations.

that is exactly what the pirates are doing..........you just do not know, due to the fact that somali news is being interferred with by fox news.

We'll why don't they buy commercial time. Besides I've never seen any of the other networks say this. So maybe you are making this up. They lost 4 yesterday maybe you can sign up since you sympathize with their cause.

lukin2006

Commy wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Commy wrote:

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

Well I've never heard the pirates with these particular complaints, so are you saying these pirates are using the money for good and cleaning up the water ways, helping restock the fish population, hiring laws firms in the countries that are causing the harm and suing these companies in their own country.

I can see it now an info commercial run by the pirates asking for donations.

yeah that is exactly what i never said.




simple question.


would you let an international corporation come into your hometown, steal your resources, and dump its garbage everywhere?

Its probably happening anyways, and besides I would not endanger innocent life and hold people hostage. Like I said are they using the money for good, not likely.

ajedigecko

easy tiger.............no sympathy here and no offense taken.

Commy

lukin2006 wrote:

We'll why don't they buy commercial time. Besides I've never seen any of the other networks say this. So maybe you are making this up. They lost 4 yesterday maybe you can sign up since you sympathize with their cause.

Somalis buy commercial time? are you serious?



i don't even think there is such a thing. its an unregulated industry, that's the problem. the internationals are coming in and taking everything they can find, they don't need permits.

thebetterman

Commy wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Commy wrote:

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

Well I've never heard the pirates with these particular complaints, so are you saying these pirates are using the money for good and cleaning up the water ways, helping restock the fish population, hiring laws firms in the countries that are causing the harm and suing these companies in their own country.

I can see it now an info commercial run by the pirates asking for donations.

yeah that is exactly what i never said.


simple question.


would you let an international corporation come into your hometown, steal your resources, and dump its garbage everywhere?

you are something else man... these people are thieves, but not Robin Hood-like thieves.

pick up a real cause to help fight.

ajedigecko

we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?

Commy

thebetterman wrote:

you are something else man... these people are thieves, but not Robin Hood-like thieves.

pick up a real cause to help fight.

i sympathize with people who are getting fucked over by greed. sorry that's not a mainstream position.

people are dying/ have died from the toxic waste. that shit is killing little kids.

Commy

ajedigecko wrote:

we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?

you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
they did it the American way instead.

let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

alright. what would you do jlew, lukin? with no government or court system to go to for help, if some foreign company came to your hometown, dumped a bunch of toxic waste in the rivers, and stole all your food, how would you deal with the situation?

would you let them?

first of all, its impossible to know if these stories are true about the dumping and "stealing" food. somalia has been a fucked up nation for a long time. I dont know who to blame on that one. truth be told, I do feel sorry for the pirates. most are forced into doing what they do out of hunger and desperation. but they also have other options available to them in which they ignore. I do give them credit though for not killing their captives. I could be wrong, but I dont hear much about them murdering people.

ajedigecko

Commy wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?

you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
they did it the American way instead.

let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.

i thought they were in the indian ocean........i am surprised it took them that long. it is good to know that obama is letting the world know that we will not negotiate with terrorists.

thebetterman

Commy wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

We'll why don't they buy commercial time. Besides I've never seen any of the other networks say this. So maybe you are making this up. They lost 4 yesterday maybe you can sign up since you sympathize with their cause.

Somalis buy commercial time? are you serious?



i don't even think there is such a thing. its an unregulated industry, that's the problem. the internationals are coming in and taking everything they can find, they don't need permits.

why would internationals fish in water they dumped garbage in??? that doesn't add up.

thebetterman

Commy wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?

you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
they did it the American way instead.

let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.

i'm guessing here, i would have thought they gave them water and food, being that there was an american onboard. like i said, just a guess

Commy

ajedigecko wrote:

Commy wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

we are the bad guys because we saved one of our civilains............has another nation tried to save their own, i have not read anywhere that they have?

you realize that lifeboat had no food, no water, and was adrift out in the middle of the effin ocean?


how long would it have taken for the negotiators to trade food/water for the hostage? probably a few more hours.
they did it the American way instead.

let the navy seals loose. aim for the head.

i thought they were in the indian ocean........i am surprised it took them that long.

:roll:

my2hands

toxic waste has what to do with hijkacking ships full of innocent people and holding them ransom?





Gandhi defeated the greatest empire on the planet without firing a shot...

dont forget that the next time you are advocating violence as a solution...

FiveB247x

In Noam Chomsky's book, "Pirates and Emperors, International Terrorism in the Real World", he tells this story, attributed to St. Augustine. A captured pirate was brought before Alexander the Great. "How dare you molest the sea?, said Alexander. How dare you molest the whole world?" replied the pirate and continued: "Because I do it with a little ship only I am called a thief; you, doing it with a great navy are called emperor."

Commy

In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was “to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters … We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas.” William Scott would understand those words.

emphasis mine.


seems straightforward enough. stop polluting our waters and overfishing our seas. ok.

...This is the context in which the men we are calling “pirates” have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a “tax” on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coast Guard of Somalia - and it’s not hard to see why.

emphasis mine.


FROM THE UN.

The UN Environment Programme (UNEP) reported the tsunami had washed up rusting containers of toxic waste on the shores of Puntland.

Nick Nuttall, a UNEP spokesman, told Al Jazeera that when the barrels were smashed open by the force of the waves, the containers exposed a "frightening activity" that has been going on for more than decade.

"Somalia has been used as a dumping ground for hazardous waste starting in the early 1990s, and continuing through the civil war there," he said.

"European companies found it to be very cheap to get rid of the waste, costing as little as $2.50 a tonne, where waste disposal costs in Europe are something like $1000 a tonne.

"And the waste is many different kinds. There is uranium radioactive waste. There is lead, and heavy metals like cadmium and mercury. There is also industrial waste, and there are hospital wastes, chemical wastes – you name it."

Nuttall also said that since the containers came ashore, hundreds of residents have fallen ill, suffering from mouth and abdominal bleeding, skin infections and other ailments.

"We [the UNEP] had planned to do a proper, in-depth scientific assessment on the magnitude of the problem. But because of the high levels of insecurity onshore and off the Somali coast, we are unable to carry out an accurate assessment of the extent of the problem," he said.

However, Ould-Abdallah claims the practice still continues.

"What is most alarming here is that nuclear waste is being dumped. Radioactive uranium waste that is potentially killing Somalis and completely destroying the ocean," he said.

mm. a pirate leader claims he is trying to stop the illegal dumping and over fishing.

the UN claims there has been illegal dumping going on.

its been estimated that $300 million a year is fished from Somalia's coast....huge number for any country, especially for Somalia.


its 1500 all over again. the Royal British Navy is telling stories about the evil pirates-a pure propaganda campaign. (pirates were known to free slaves back in the day). here we are again, with Western forces again calling for an end to piracy...with the same sort of propaganda being used to describe them. Think i'm rooting for the pirates.

mickeyrat

Are not internationally recognized territorial waters considered to end 50 miles from a given counties coast?. These "fishermen" are going out as far as 450 miles. And furthermore , just how much of the ransom money is headed inland? Greed, pure and simple. High seas bank robbery.