You Are Being Lied To About PIRATES

g under p

lukin2006 wrote:

Unfortunately that is how many people on the left view things, its always the west fault, we're the reason for the pirates, just how insane some people's thinking is.

If you read the piece you would know it was European ships dumping these waste products on the Somali coastline and destroying their fishing industry, NOT the West. One of the smarter things we've done here in the US. We've only become interested in this story once American lives have been involved in this piracy at sea.

Peace

g under p

FiveB247x wrote:

In Noam Chomsky's book, "Pirates and Emperors, International Terrorism in the Real World", he tells this story, attributed to St. Augustine. A captured pirate was brought before Alexander the Great. "How dare you molest the sea?, said Alexander. How dare you molest the whole world?" replied the pirate and continued: "Because I do it with a little ship only I am called a thief; you, doing it with a great navy are called emperor."

Nice quote, they spoke of something like that in the article at the beginning of this thread.

Peace

jlew24asu

g under p wrote:

I never said anything about defending or sympathetic to ALL the pirates in the written article, just that there's another side to this story and it should be looked at. I said what some of these pirates are doing is dead wrong and some are looking for a quick buck. However, because of this illegal activity those European ships that are dumping toxic waste off the Somali Coast are now thinking twice about doing so.

We would have the same scenario here in America if we had NO military force to protect our coastline. Would you want this on your coast that could affect your health and cut off a food source. I certainly wouldn't want such actions here in Palm Beach Florida.

So those pirates who choose to defend their country against foriegn coastline destruction should do so in whatever means necessary, MORE POWER to them.

Peace

anyone else see the irony in ending your post with "Peace"

tybird

FiveB247x wrote:

I agree. I also enjoy the fact how little media attention has gone to the fact that because the Suez Canal raised its usage fees, so as a result, companies are now sailing around Africa and putting themselves into more dangerous waters like what we see in this situation. Anything to save a buck.

These are ships that have passed or are going to pass through the Suez Canal....Somalia is located in the Horn of Africa....right where the Red Sea (and the Suez Canal) empty into the Indian Ocean.

flywallyfly

Pirates on Monday hijacked two Egyptian fishing boats carrying a total of between 18 and 24 people, the Egyptian Information Ministry told CNN.

The Egyptian Foreign Ministry is working to end the hijacking, the ministry said.

Egyptian boats are known to use Somali waters illegally for fishing, taking advantage of the lawless state of the country and the lack of enforcement of its maritime boundaries.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04 ... index.html

g under p

jlew24asu wrote:

g under p wrote:

I never said anything about defending or sympathetic to ALL the pirates in the written article, just that there's another side to this story and it should be looked at. I said what some of these pirates are doing is dead wrong and some are looking for a quick buck. However, because of this illegal activity those European ships that are dumping toxic waste off the Somali Coast are now thinking twice about doing so.

We would have the same scenario here in America if we had NO military force to protect our coastline. Would you want this on your coast that could affect your health and cut off a food source. I certainly wouldn't want such actions here in Palm Beach Florida.

So those pirates who choose to defend their country against foriegn coastline destruction should do so in whatever means necessary, MORE POWER to them.

Peace

anyone else see the irony in ending your post with "Peace"

Does it bother you or should I just try WAR instead?

Peace

jlew24asu

g under p wrote:

Does it bother you or should I just try WAR instead?

Peace

no it doesnt bother me. I just found it ironic thats all. ending your post with KILL ALL WESTERNERS would have been more appropriate based on your post.

g under p

jlew24asu wrote:

g under p wrote:

Does it bother you or should I just try WAR instead?

Peace

no it doesnt bother me. I just found it ironic thats all. ending your post with KILL ALL WESTERNERS would have been more appropriate based on your post.

Not really in this case it's all about the Europeans not necessarily the West.

Peace

jlew24asu

g under p wrote:

Not really in this case it's all about the Europeans not necessarily the West.

Peace

I apologize. KILL ALL EUROPEANS.

ok much better. :roll:

Kel Varnsen

g under p wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

g under p wrote:

Does it bother you or should I just try WAR instead?

Peace

no it doesnt bother me. I just found it ironic thats all. ending your post with KILL ALL WESTERNERS would have been more appropriate based on your post.

Not really in this case it's all about the Europeans not necessarily the West.

Peace

Just to clairify something, when people use the term "the west" when speaking about the world they are talking about North America and Western Europe. The east is eastern europe and Asia, which is why China and Japan are typically referred to as the Far East.

FiveB247x

Actually it has been mentioned significanctly that many of these ships have been going around Africa in order to avoid paying the Suez Canal fees.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/04/ ... g_det.html

tybird wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I agree. I also enjoy the fact how little media attention has gone to the fact that because the Suez Canal raised its usage fees, so as a result, companies are now sailing around Africa and putting themselves into more dangerous waters like what we see in this situation. Anything to save a buck.

These are ships that have passed or are going to pass through the Suez Canal....Somalia is located in the Horn of Africa....right where the Red Sea (and the Suez Canal) empty into the Indian Ocean.

tybird

FiveB247x wrote:

Actually it has been mentioned significanctly that many of these ships have been going around Africa in order to avoid paying the Suez Canal fees.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/04/ ... g_det.html

tybird wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I agree. I also enjoy the fact how little media attention has gone to the fact that because the Suez Canal raised its usage fees, so as a result, companies are now sailing around Africa and putting themselves into more dangerous waters like what we see in this situation. Anything to save a buck.

These are ships that have passed or are going to pass through the Suez Canal....Somalia is located in the Horn of Africa....right where the Red Sea (and the Suez Canal) empty into the Indian Ocean.

Interesting....hugging the coast prior to movement towards the Arabian Pennisula??? :?

FiveB247x

Apparently companies save money cause the fuel coast of going around Africa is cheaper than going through the Suez Canal.

tybird wrote:

Interesting....hugging the coast prior to movement towards the Arabian Pennisula??? :?

tybird

FiveB247x wrote:

Apparently companies save money cause the fuel coast of going around Africa is cheaper than going through the Suez Canal.

tybird wrote:

Interesting....hugging the coast prior to movement towards the Arabian Pennisula??? :?

Very interesting....considering also the time factor...much longer delivery time around the Cape....I wonder if they pass the cost of feeding the crews onto the customer or the crew?

Dirtie_Frank

What else they are neglegting to say is that they have earned $600 million from ransoms paid. Then they buy weapons from different groups to continue the lawlessness in Somalia.

Staceb10

Are you kidding me? A lot of these pirates are teenagers with assault rifles holding commercial vessels for ransom and kidnapping the crew members. I'm sure they are doing that to "protect" the illegal fish trade and not for the million dollars a boat they want for ransom. Was the Alabama fishing or dumping waste? What about the boats they took today?

FiveB247x

I'm not necessarily defending their right to hijack ships or people, but one aspect of these encounters is the key fact that many of them have varying reasons for carrying out these acts. Some are for money, but some do it to combat environmental dumping the rich, industrialized nations do off the coast of Somalia as well as kill their fishing industry which they rely on for food, trade and survival. It is not merely a black and white issue as people want to make it seem. We can sit here and say they're wrong for acting in this manner, but they can justifiably so point the finger right back at us for our wrong-doings in this matter. It's a matter of sovereignty and moral standing. Here's a few articles about the topics I mentioned. Also, I'm not denying the portion about Somalia having no government and some of this being done simply for money or Warlords, but there is another side of this story which is not being discussed and does hold merit.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gVV ... mVc5McYV-Q

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 817.html... Read More

http://insidesomalia.org/20090403498/Ne ... ermen.html

Staceb10 wrote:

Are you kidding me? A lot of these pirates are teenagers with assault rifles holding commercial vessels for ransom and kidnapping the crew members. I'm sure they are doing that to "protect" the illegal fish trade and not for the million dollars a boat they want for ransom. Was the Alabama fishing or dumping waste? What about the boats they took today?

Commy

Staceb10 wrote:

Are you kidding me? A lot of these pirates are teenagers with assault rifles holding commercial vessels for ransom and kidnapping the crew members. I'm sure they are doing that to "protect" the illegal fish trade and not for the million dollars a boat they want for ransom. Was the Alabama fishing or dumping waste? What about the boats they took today?

it may have come to that (do you have any links showing this is standard?)


but it started as an organic response to the illegal dumping and fishing.

and what do you expect them to do, just take enough to cover their costs from the overfishing? that's $300 million. how much should they charge companies to dump nuclear waste in their waters? another $300 million?

looks like they're just breaking even. (ignoring casualties from the toxic waste)

Staceb10

FiveB247x wrote:

I'm not necessarily defending their right to hijack ships or people, but one aspect of these encounters is the key fact that many of them have varying reasons for carrying out these acts. Some are for money, but some do it to combat environmental dumping the rich, industrialized nations do off the coast of Somalia as well as kill their fishing industry which they rely on for food, trade and survival. It is not merely a black and white issue as people want to make it seem. We can sit here and say they're wrong for acting in this manner, but they can justifiably so point the finger right back at us for our wrong-doings in this matter. It's a matter of sovereignty and moral standing. Here's a few articles about the topics I mentioned. Also, I'm not denying the portion about Somalia having no government and some of this being done simply for money or Warlords, but there is another side of this story which is not being discussed and does hold merit.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gVV ... mVc5McYV-Q

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 817.html... Read More

http://insidesomalia.org/20090403498/Ne ... ermen.html

Staceb10 wrote:

Are you kidding me? A lot of these pirates are teenagers with assault rifles holding commercial vessels for ransom and kidnapping the crew members. I'm sure they are doing that to "protect" the illegal fish trade and not for the million dollars a boat they want for ransom. Was the Alabama fishing or dumping waste? What about the boats they took today?

There is always another side to the story. I'm sure there are some that are doing it because of the fishing and dumping but I don't buy that is the agenda for the majority. I'm more inclined to think its the 600 million they've gotten already. Where did that money go I wonder?

FiveB247x

Well as I stated before, you may question the actions, but just as we can point the finger at them for their wrong-doing, they can point the finger back at us for wrong-doing. And since you keep bringing up the subject of arms - where exactly do you think they buy these arms from?.... I'll give you one good guess.. the same countries who are fishing, dumping and complaining about the lawlessness of Somalia.

http://friendsofethiopia.blogspot.com/2 ... rease.html




[/quote]There is always another side to the story. I'm sure there are some that are doing it because of the fishing and dumping but I don't buy that is the agenda for the majority. I'm more inclined to think its the 600 million they've gotten already. Where did that money go I wonder?[/quote]