You Are Being Lied To About PIRATES

jlew24asu

FiveB247x wrote:

Regarding some dumping: http://www.infowars.com/is-toxic-waste- ... li-piracy/

Actually there's plenty of laws which regard international waters and fishing buy typically they are not inforced or ignored.

As for your idea about pirates patroling the waters, what exactly makes you think they have to act in kind to opposing ships? You want them to act like a navy, but ignore the fact they are not one. They are typically smaller ships with people carrying lots of guns. The boats doing the fishing and dumping are very big and they can't simply do what you are requesting. It'd be equivelent to one very big person bullying a very small person and in order for the small person to combat this, they fight a bit dirty...and when the big bully doesn't like it, they say - hey you can't fight against me in this manner, it's not fair, yet ignores their part in the exchange.

first of all, don't post infowar links. that immediately marginalizes your credibility.

the boats they are hijacking are oil tankers and cargo ships. the BIGGEST ships in the world. yet they have no problem going after them. and yes, I would give them much more support if they acted like a navy and only were trying to protect their shores instead of hijacking the nearest ship that comes near them.

what the hell are you trying to defend?

FiveB247x

I typically try and post reliable sources for any information, and in this case it is correct. Just because you don't like the messenger, doesn't mean the message is wrong.

Here's a different site: http://ethiomedia.com/aurora/9105.html

Also, you ask what I'm defending? Truth and facts. Even you alone, in this thread, even if you don't agree with it, basically found out that it simply as the media is explaining it, correct? There's much more to this issue, but if you watch or read 99% of the media, you'd think otherwise.

Lastly, issues like these are a matter of moral equivocation. You think because they're not "playing by the same rules" so to speak, it makes them wrong, where as I see it as two sides both doing wrong doing, of which each is furthering the others response.

jlew24asu wrote:

first of all, don't post infowar links. that immediately marginalizes your credibility.

the boats they are hijacking are oil tankers and cargo ships. the BIGGEST ships in the world. yet they have no problem going after them. and yes, I would give them much more support if they acted like a navy and only were trying to protect their shores instead of hijacking the nearest ship that comes near them.

what the hell are you trying to defend?

jlew24asu

FiveB247x wrote:

I typically try and post reliable sources for any information, and in this case it is correct. Just because you don't like the messenger, doesn't mean the message is wrong.

Here's a different site: http://ethiomedia.com/aurora/9105.html

Also, you ask what I'm defending? Truth and facts. Even you alone, in this thread, even if you don't agree with it, basically found out that it simply as the media is explaining it, correct? There's much more to this issue, but if you watch or read 99% of the media, you'd think otherwise.

Lastly, issues like these are a matter of moral equivocation. You think because they're not "playing by the same rules" so to speak, it makes them wrong, where as I see it as two sides both doing wrong doing, of which each is furthering the others response.

hijacking ships and taking people hostage makes them wrong under any circumstances.

FiveB247x

yes that is correct... and i will add that the stealing of their fishing industry and dumping is wrong as well. when two children get into a fight, you don't just point at one say you're more wrong and why did you start, you explain to both of them that their partaking in that action is wrong, to both of them.

jlew24asu wrote:

hijacking ships and taking people hostage makes them wrong under any circumstances.

flywallyfly

This has boondoggle written all over it. I cant imagine how many innocent fisherman could get blasted out of the water for bounties. I guess we should just get rid of our military and hire Blackwater (I forget what their new and improved name is) to protect the United States....good grief.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200904 ... iM0pQDW7oF

A little-known congressional power could help the federal government keep the Somali pirates in check — and possibly do it for a discount price.

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and a growing number of national security experts are calling on Congress to consider using letters of marque and reprisal, a power written into the Constitution that allows the United States to hire private citizens to keep international waters safe.

Used heavily during the Revolution and the War of 1812, letters of marque serve as official warrants from the government, allowing privateers to seize or destroy enemies, their loot and their vessels in exchange for bounty money.

The letters also require would-be thrill seekers to post a bond promising to abide by international rules of war.

In a YouTube video earlier this week, Paul suggested lawmakers consider issuing letters, which could relieve American naval ships from being the nation’s primary pirate responders — a free-market solution to make the high seas safer for cargo ships.

“I think if every potential pirate knew this would be the case, they would have second thoughts because they could probably be blown out of the water rather easily if those were the conditions,” Paul said.

Theoretically, hiring bounty hunters would also be a cheaper option.

National security experts estimate that this week’s ship captain rescue by Navy SEALs cost tens of millions, although a Navy spokesman says the military cannot confirm the exact cost of the mission.

Instead, privateers would be incentivized to patrol the ocean looking for key targets — and money would be paid only to the contractor who completed the job.

“If we have 100 American wanna-be Rambos patrolling the seas, it’s probably a good way of getting the job done,” said Competitive Enterprise Institute senior fellow and security expert Eli Lehrer. “Right now we have a Navy designed mostly to fight other navies. The weapons we have are all excellent, but they may not be the best ones to fight these kinds of pirates. The only cost under letters of marque would be some sort of bounty for the pirates.”

According to Senate historians, Congress hasn’t issued a letter of marquee since the War of 1812, but the Confederate States of America issued them during the Civil War to deliver supplies behind enemy lines. There are also some indications that a letter was granted to a flying band of armed civilians during World War II to operate the Resolute, a Goodyear Blimp used to patrol the ocean for enemy submarines, but the issuance isn’t apparent in the Congressional Record.

If Congress were to revisit the antiquated process, a serious makeover would be required.

In the past, privateers were allowed to keep the ship and treasure they captured in an enemy encounter.

“That isn’t a viable way of funding in today’s world,” said Lehrer. “These pirates don’t really have treasure chests, and their money is tied up in Swiss Bank accounts. Congress would probably have to attach sizable bounties to people.”

Bounties are not a new idea — there is still a $25 million bounty on Osama bin Laden, and millions have been awarded by the government for other enemy captures.

FiveB247x

Fly - thanks for posting that story. Unfortunately this possible reaction doesn't truly address the problem in this matter - Somalia's government, it merely band aid's the issue of piracy or atleast temporarily deters it.

Staceb10

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/ap_on_re_af/piracy


Yeah, its all about protecting the fish :roll:

FiveB247x

I never claimed it was all about fishing and dumping and if you read the other posts, you'd see that.

Staceb10 wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/ap_on_re_af/piracy


Yeah, its all about protecting the fish :roll:

jlew24asu

FiveB247x wrote:

I never claimed it was all about fishing and dumping and if you read the other posts, you'd see that.

Staceb10 wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/ap_on_re_af/piracy


Yeah, its all about protecting the fish :roll:

the more I read and investigate the more I think its ALL about money. they aren't doing this to protect their shores from dumping. I'm starting to believe this dumping is a nice little story cooked up by Ahmedou Ould Abdallah...and the far left websites running with the story.

and I still dont understand how their isnt enough room for everyone to fish. an article posted said some 220 vessels where illegally fishing of the shores. well the ocean is big, I find it hard to believe, Somalis in row boats cant find an area to fish. BUT, it would be nice to see the Somoli fishermen left alone and allowed to fish off its shores. its absolutely wrong for foreign ships to do that. that said, where are the pirates? they should be out there protecting the Somoli fisherman.

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I never claimed it was all about fishing and dumping and if you read the other posts, you'd see that.

Staceb10 wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/ap_on_re_af/piracy


Yeah, its all about protecting the fish :roll:

the more I read and investigate the more I think its ALL about money. they aren't doing this to protect their shores from dumping. I'm starting to believe this dumping is a nice little story cooked up by Ahmedou Ould Abdallah...and the far left websites running with the story.

and I still dont understand how their isnt enough room for everyone to fish. an article posted said some 220 vessels where illegally fishing of the shores. well the ocean is big, I find it hard to believe, Somalis in row boats cant find an area to fish. BUT, it would be nice to see the Somoli fishermen left alone and allowed to fish off its shores. its absolutely wrong for foreign ships to do that. that said, where are the pirates? they should be out there protecting the Somoli fisherman.

I'm with Jlew on this one...

Commy

I think the Somali fishermen have become the pirates somewhat. what started as an organic response to overfishing and illegal dumping has turned into very profitable industry for them.

it may be all about the money NOW, (as the american ship they hijacked the other day was carrying food relief to africa) but the context is still relevant.

the instigators in this conflict shouldn't be the ones to control it now.

how does that look? some international ships come in, over fish the waters, dump nuclear waste and move on. when the locals group together to stop it the international ships come back with guns? how is that right?


bring in the UN i say.

ajedigecko

Commy wrote:

I think the Somali fishermen have become the pirates somewhat. what started as an organic response to overfishing and illegal dumping has turned into very profitable industry for them.

it may be all about the money NOW, (as the american ship they hijacked the other day was carrying food relief to africa) but the context is still relevant.

the instigators in this conflict shouldn't be the ones to control it now.

how does that look? some international ships come in, over fish the waters, dump nuclear waste and move on. when the locals group together to stop it the international ships come back with guns? how is that right?


bring in the UN i say.

the exact same thought occured to me as well today........except for the UN aspect.

FiveB247x

Yeah you got me - it's all just another Leftist conspiracy theory.... :roll:

As I previously stated, it's not soley about fishing and dumping, but it does have it's impact on the situation. I'd guess the greed compared to social issues ratio is 50-50.... but as you show, it's easy to disprove when you don't want to see or acknowledge that part.

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5827

Staceb10

I understand the illegal dumping and fishing aspect of it but I honestly don't believe that is now the motive of these pirates. They are receiving millions of dollars and I haven't seen any explanation for where that money goes. Do they use it to help people that are sick because of the toxic waste? Are they using it to help feed people or build homes or establish a proper government or anything productive to change whatsoever? Or are they just using it to buy more guns and weapons and possibly funding terrorist groups? How is targeting US ships and threatening to kill the sailors, which is what they say they are doing now, in any way related to the problem of private European companies dumping waste and overfishing?

FiveB247x

You're jumping from A to Z with leaving out the middle portion. These pirates weren't targeting US military vessicles or sailors until the a cargo ship with US civillians was being held and the US confronting them and engaging the conflict to get the civilians back; thus the pirates then declared they were going after the US. Also, there isn't a 100% certainty where the money is going other than to people within Somalia... perhaps its arms, drugs, etc... or directly to the warlords running the provinces. We honestly don't know for sure. You are making equations towards proper government and productive measure but aren't recognizing the reality of the situation in Somalia. It is a lawless nation with warlords running the show.. they lack organization, law, rule and the foundations to have the things you are asking for... and if you want to discuss that matter, this entire discussion comes full circle because the Western, industrialized nations have their hands in the mess that is Somalia.

Staceb10 wrote:

I understand the illegal dumping and fishing aspect of it but I honestly don't believe that is now the motive of these pirates. They are receiving millions of dollars and I haven't seen any explanation for where that money goes. Do they use it to help people that are sick because of the toxic waste? Are they using it to help feed people or build homes or establish a proper government or anything productive to change whatsoever? Or are they just using it to buy more guns and weapons and possibly funding terrorist groups? How is targeting US ships and threatening to kill the sailors, which is what they say they are doing now, in any way related to the problem of private European companies dumping waste and overfishing?

acoustic guy

Commy wrote:

I saw this the other day too.


the west comes, steals their resources, dumps toxic waste in their oceans, and wonders why there is resistance.


apparently the pirates are more organized than the term suggests.

THEY ARE POOR FISHERMEN WHO HOLD CARGO SHIPS FOR RANSOME!
ARE YOU PEOPLE SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEY DO IT FOR MONEY!! YOU THINK THEY RANSOME BOATS FOR MILLIONS B/C THEY CARE ABOUT THE WATER?
WAKE THE FUCK UP!

g under p

acoustic guy wrote:

Commy wrote:

I saw this the other day too.


the west comes, steals their resources, dumps toxic waste in their oceans, and wonders why there is resistance.


apparently the pirates are more organized than the term suggests.

THEY ARE POOR FISHERMEN WHO HOLD CARGO SHIPS FOR RANSOME!
ARE YOU PEOPLE SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEY DO IT FOR MONEY!! YOU THINK THEY RANSOME BOATS FOR MILLIONS B/C THEY CARE ABOUT THE WATER?
WAKE THE FUCK UP!

Chill my man, chill. The simple point of my posting of this piece was just to point out that there's another side to this story that's simply NOT being reported. I'm NOT condoning what these pirates are doing, people are being killed and injured NOTHING about that fact is right.

I watch Fox News, CNN and some of the others and I have not heard them report on this aspect on the dumping of toxic waste which in turn is making people sick and damaging the fishery off the coast of Somalia. This is how this got started, how these people were trying to protect their waters and over the years has morphed into outright criminal piracy. These people saw something that appeared to be a easy way to get money and they've jumped on it.

Eventually over time this will all cease, it's just that I'd like a tv station like Fox News (Fair and Balanced) and others try and report the other side of this story.

Peace

Commy

acoustic guy wrote:

Commy wrote:

I saw this the other day too.


the west comes, steals their resources, dumps toxic waste in their oceans, and wonders why there is resistance.


apparently the pirates are more organized than the term suggests.

THEY ARE POOR FISHERMEN WHO HOLD CARGO SHIPS FOR RANSOME!
ARE YOU PEOPLE SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEY DO IT FOR MONEY!! YOU THINK THEY RANSOME BOATS FOR MILLIONS B/C THEY CARE ABOUT THE WATER?
WAKE THE FUCK UP!

lol. if you saw it on tv it must be true.


my local news either calls them pirates or muslims. yes, muslims. like that has fuckall to do with it.

whatever their intentions now, it started as true libertarian justice. locals trying to collect fines, as ships were taking some $300 million in fish and lobster from their waters. They should be compensated right? naturally the international companies refused to pay the fines, so the fishermen started bringing guns.

here we are today.


saying they are "all about the money" or something like that, while maybe true to some extent, ignores the context of the situation, which i think is the point of the thread.

fanch75

"Arrrrrrggggggggggggh" you serious?

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

lol. if you saw it on tv it must be true.


my local news either calls them pirates or muslims. yes, muslims. like that has fuckall to do with it.

whatever their intentions now, it started as true libertarian justice. locals trying to collect fines, as ships were taking some $300 million in fish and lobster from their waters. They should be compensated right? naturally the international companies refused to pay the fines, so the fishermen started bringing guns.

here we are today.


saying they are "all about the money" or something like that, while maybe true to some extent, ignores the context of the situation, which i think is the point of the thread.

I'm still not buying this bullshit about fishing vessel stealing "their" fish. Somalia has almost 2000 miles of coastline. I dont care how many ships sail around, there has got to be plenty of fishing available for everyone. even more so considering the average Somali fishing ship can not be very big.

you, or someone else, said international fishing laws are vague and rarely followed. how much of the ocean does Somalia "own" ?

$300 million dollars in fish seems like nothing. like I said, its a really big fucking ocean. enough for everyone. and if they were really into libertarian justice, these pirates/fishermen would simply shoot at the "illegal" fishing boats in the area.

people like you only want to use these bullshit dumping and stealing stories as another reason to blame the west and big corporations for the worlds problems.