Authority

Byrnzie wrote:

No it isn't. They mean different things. You were putting words in my mouth and trying to exaggerate what I'd actually said.

Ok, "detest" is a synonym for "dislike"....look under any thesaurus. But fine, I put words in your mouth. Sorry. haha.

Byrnzie wrote:

Again, the poem said nothing about anyone not liking the poor. You said that, and only you. Bukowski didn't say it. He was talking about something else.
And saying that someone can be proud for there to be authority makes no sense. It's like saying that there are people that are proud that there are squirrels, or that there are people who are proud of the rain.

In the meantime, can you explain why people who don't like authority are a problem? And whilst you're at it, can you also explain how Jesus and Gandhi were a problem? Ya see, they didn't like (I didn't say detest) authority either.

Seriously man, read what I wrote more carefully. I JUST said that I know the poem isn't about anyone not liking the poor, and I know Bukowski didn't say that. I'm saying that particular line is very striking to me, and it goes beyond the scope of the average person and conformity. There are those who detest poverty, and there are also those who are proud of it...as in there are wealthy people who detest the poor, and there are poor people who detest the wealthy. Therefore, each are showing pride in their wealth or lack thereof. Both positions are unwise, and these people become a problem. They don't encourage balance in society, they disrupt it. That's why we should be weary of them.

Even if my explanation isn't what Buk meant, I still think it holds up in a debate about authority (you still haven't told me your interpretation yet btw). Authority is an extremely useful tool in preserving our individual freedom as well as the collective freedom for all...this all goes back to balance. It's a balancing act which nobody (including Bukowski) can always recognize. Sometimes we slip...just like I used to when I'd mess with cops or campus security or bouncers. I still slip, but it's getting less and less because I'm becoming more balanced...Bukowski's work has helped me with that. The fact that you brought him into this thread is probably the reason I'm still posting in it

Byrnzie wrote:

In the meantime, can you explain why people who don't like authority are a problem? And whilst you're at it, can you also explain how Jesus and Gandhi were a problem? Ya see, they didn't like (I didn't say detest) authority either.

Jesus and Gandhi didn't have a problem with authority. They had a problem with authoritative systems that had become unjust. They were both religious men...they dedicated their lives to serving what they consider to be a higher authority...a supreme being (although Gandhi's isn't as clear-cut as Jesus' obviously).

Take it easy, man.

Byrnzie wrote:

What? Did you even read my original post?

You're saying that I blame child rape on the authorities? Errm, o.k. Sure.

Excuse me while I go and bang my head against the wall.

Defensive much? I said nothing about your thoughts on child rape, I simply asked how many child rapists the FBI caught last year... the point being that those "authority figures" you dislike are needed and do many good things. That for every Kent State massacre (once in the history of the USA I believe), there are 10,000 criminals taken off the streets by these people. For every one racist cop who bludgeons a black man to death, there are thousands that protect women, children and minorities on a day to day basis. For every one usher on a power trip, there are a hundred people in the theater next door thanking an usher for getting the annoying guy that wouldn't shut up out of the movie. For every one bouncer who acts like a prick (and I wonder how many are just acting tough so that people don't test them and how many are actually doing anything to you to cause you problems), there are a dozen who have put themselves in danger by removing a drunk man from the bar before he starts a fight or stabs somebody.

By all means, question authority and keep tabs to make sure they're doing their jobs and not abusing their position. But that's no reason to be disrespectful and ASSume the worst of them just because they have a job to do that involves making sure you and the people around you aren't acting like jackasses and ruining things for the rest of us.

Jeremy1012 wrote:

Byrnzie, are you familiar with the poem The Second Coming by Yeats? It's supposed to be a lament of the decline of society and the ruling classes but really all he does is pump me up for it.

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre,
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

FUCK YES I say

I fuckin LOVE Yeats

Byrnzie wrote:

Anyone else have a problem with it? I don't get on with authority - in whatever shape or form; bosses, pub landlords, train ticket inspectors, the cops, ushers in cinemas, message pit moderators, bouncers. I just have a problem with the whole lot. People in authority make me uncomfortable - fear and loathing.
They often remind me of Nurse Ratched from 'One flew over the cuckoos nest'.

I don't like people who see it as their job to control you. They make me want to stir shit up and throw a spanner in the works.

Maybe a bit of a generalization, but you get my drift.
Anyone else feel the same way?

Edit: something else that annoys me - people who laugh in cinemas at things that aren't funny because they think this makes it seem like they 'get it', even though there's nothing to get. I.e, I saw Bowling for Columbine and there were a bunch of people in the cinema who kept laughing throughout this film at people, and situations, that weren't funny. What they didn't seem to understand was that Bowling for Columbine isn't funny. They were laughing because they they thought that laughing made them look clever. People like this make me sick.

I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm bored. Anyone home?

wow.....you live in china and have a problem with authority?
do you dislike authority as much as those who stood in front of the tanks?

Byrnzie wrote:

Have you ever been to China?

People here are freer than they are in England or the U.S. There's no nanny state here.

i have never been to china....but would like to hike a paddle many of the areas i have read about.

people there are more free.....free enough to stand before tanks and voice their discourse. interesting indeed.

are individuals allowed to have a second child yet?

the only reason i ask, an exchange student my wife had during the 07-08 school term, informed her that her neighbor was taken away by the authorities for becoming pregnant for the second time.

...another thought. i do concede china is free to put any poision/lead/chemical or other ingredients into toys and food.

I respect everyone, but only ever do what I want. That way, they have to respect me too.

TrixieCat wrote:

I am thinking Zhao Yan would disagree with you.
I have been to China. I was in Hong Kong 9 days before it was 'handed back' to the Chinese. I would again disagree with you. But maybe these are just my experiences.
Not to mention what a joke their "constitution" is. :rolleyes:

I don't have a problem with authority. I also have no problem arguing my side of an issue when I KNOW they are wrong.

Agreed.

Well, apparently if you want to buy the new Chinese Democracy album by Guns n Roses, you are screwed if you are in China. Apparently, the Minister of Culture does not like "democracy" being in the title. Yes, freedom!

Edit: I was in Best Buy the other day, and was amazed at how many album covers have George Bush on the cover (in an unflattering way). This crap about China being more free than the US is ridiculous. You can say anything you want in the US. You can practice any religion you want in the US. Yeah, be a Christian in China. See how that works out for you. Yeah, Chinese Freedom!