Authority

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  • OffHeGoes29
    OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I didn't say that. And that's the second time you've put words in my mouth. Seems to be a habit you have there.

    No, seems like you have a habit of labeling people......just because I live in America doesn't make me a paranoid gun owner, and just because some one has a position of authority doesn't make them a prick.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    Well how is it you don't need to protect yourself?

    Protect myself from what?
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    Isn't that what authority does for everyone? Keep civil order?

    Sure. Authority keeps civil order, like at Kent State University, and in Seattle and Genoa a few years back.
    You should be really proud of this civil order that you cherish so highly. The present state of this society we live in really looks like it needs to be protected, maintained and perpetuated. It really looks like we're all on the right track here doesn't it.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    No, seems like you have a habit of labeling people......just because I live in America doesn't make me a paranoid gun owner, and just because some one has a position of authority doesn't make them a prick.

    There you go again; No 3.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    "People in authority make me uncomfortable"

    Well who else is going to do it? I didn't see anything about a "certain character type" in your first post.

    I admitted In my first post that I was generalizing. But, yes, I don't like authority. As far as I'm concerned people in positions of authority need to justify themselves. More often than not, people get handed a little bit of power and it goes to their heads. They lose a certain amount of decency they may have once had. The job becomes more important than anything else. And I have a problem with this.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    Well how is it you don't need to protect yourself? Isn't that what authority does for everyone? Keep civil order?

    Let's take the most extreme example of authority: The President of America. Do you respect this person? I don't. I've always thought of him as being a jackass. Do you see my point?

    Edit: Anyway, I was just trying to make conversation. I thought it'd make a change from posting yet another link to a news item about Barack Obama.
  • unifiedscene
    unifiedscene Posts: 462
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Protect myself from what?



    Sure. Authority keeps civil order, like at Kent State University, and in Seattle and Genoa a few years back.
    You should be really proud of this civil order that you cherish so highly. The present state of this society we live in really looks like it needs to be protected, maintained and perpetuated. It really looks like we're all on the right track here doesn't it.

    How many child rapists were caught by the FBI or local police last year? They're not immune from mistakes or criticism, but this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Rather than condemning those individuals who committed these atrocities, you place the blame on "authority" and make it that much harder for the good men in these positions to do their jobs well.
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • Thoughts_Arrive
    Thoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    QuestionAuthority wrote:
    Yes.. as my user name states.. I think it is our responsibility and right to question authority.. do not assume that their word is the end all be all and the final conclusion.

    Your username is also a great Circle Jerks song!
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    unifiedscene wrote:
    How many child rapists were caught by the FBI or local police last year? They're not immune from mistakes or criticism, but this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Rather than condemning those individuals who committed these atrocities, you place the blame on "authority" and make it that much harder for the good men in these positions to do their jobs well.

    What? Did you even read my original post?

    You're saying that I blame child rape on the authorities? Errm, o.k. Sure.

    Excuse me while I go and bang my head against the wall.
  • Thoughts_Arrive
    Thoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    I hate bouncers here in Melbourne.
    They are all violent thugs looking to bash someone.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    We went to a few pubs when we did the pj tour in 06, and i didn't really get that feeling. I thought a lot were real sleaze machines. Ugh. Like gods gift to us females. I think its different for guys though. They would be more exposed to the macho side of a lot of the bouncers. The whole David Hookes death brought the problem of the way some of the bouncers are, more out in the open i think.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Then authority needs to constantly justify itself.
    mhmm...that's how certain authority figures gain my respect and trust. And that's a good thing. That doesn't mean I have to look at them like a boss or someone who has power over me.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    The Genius of the Crowd - Bukowski

    There is enough treachery, hatred, Violence, Absurdity in the average human Being To supply any given army on any given day. AND The Best At Murder Are Those Who Preach Against It. AND The Best at Hate Are Those Who Preach LOVE AND THE BEST AT WAR – FINALLY – ARE THOSE WHO PREACH PEACE

    Those Who Preach GOD NEED God Those Who Preach PEACE Do Not Have Peace. THOSE WHO PREACH LOVE DO NOT HAVE LOVE BEWARE THE PREACHERS Beware The Knowers.

    Beware
    Those Who
    Are ALWAYS
    READING
    BOOKS

    Beware Those Who Either Detest Poverty Or Are Proud Of It

    BEWARE Those Quick To Praise For They Need PRAISE In Return

    BEWARE Those Quick To Censure: They Are Afraid Of What They Do Not Know

    Beware Those Who Seek Constant Crowds; They Are Nothing Alone

    Beware
    The Average Man
    The Average Woman
    BEWARE Their Love

    Their Love Is Average; Seeks Average But there Is Genius In Their Hatred There Is Enough Genius In Their Hatred To Kill You, To Kill Anybody.

    Not wanting Solitude Not Understanding Solitude They Will Attempt To Destroy Anything That Differs From Their Own

    Not Being Able
    To Create Art
    They Will Not
    Understand Art

    They Will Consider Their Failure As Creators Only As A Failure Of The World

    Not Being Able To Love Fully They Will BELIEVE Your Love Incomplete AND THEN THEY WILL HATE YOU

    And Their Hatred Will Be Perfect Like A Shining Diamond Like A Knife Like A Mountain LIKE A TIGER LIKE Hemlock

    Their Finest
    ART
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Beware Those Who Either Detest Poverty Or Are Proud Of It
    ...and beware those who either detest authority or are proud of it

    Are you listening to Buk, or just reading Buk? ;)
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Saturnal wrote:
    ...and beware those who either detest authority or are proud of it

    Bukowski never said that. Those are your words. And they make little sense, i.e, Why would anyone be proud of authority?


    Bukowski had no time for authority either.
    And I never said I detested it.

    Beware those that put words in the mouths of others that weren't there to begin with.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Bukowski never said that. He had no time for authority either. And I never said I detested it.

    Beware those that always resort to putting words in the mouths of others that weren't there to begin with.
    lol you said "i don't like authority"...it's a few posts back. (Detest means to dislike right?)

    I know Bukowski never said that, but that's not the point. The point is that he made extremely insightful statements like the one about poverty which can be applied to many many things....wealth, authority, religion, etc. It's not just about poverty, it's a statement about recognizing the need for balance and how important that is in all aspects of life. When we're unbalanced, we become unreasonable. Then we can't help each other or ourselves.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Bukowski never said that. Those are your words. And they make little sense, i.e, Why would anyone be proud of authority?
    I meant it like "proud to be in a position of authority" or "proud to have authority", not proud OF it...same as Bukowski is saying "watch out for people who hate the poor and those who are proud to be poor."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Saturnal wrote:
    lol you said "i don't like authority"...it's a few posts back. (Detest means to dislike right?)


    No. They have two different meanings.

    Dislike:
    1. to regard with displeasure, antipathy, or aversion: I dislike working. I dislike oysters.


    Detest:
    1. to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely.

    To detest something means that you feel passionately about it. A hatred. I don't feel that way about authority. I just don't like it. Mostly I tend to ignore it, or laugh at it.
    Saturnal wrote:
    it's a statement about recognizing the need for balance and how important that is in all aspects of life. When we're unbalanced, we become unreasonable. Then we can't help each other or ourselves.

    You're digging yourself into a hole. The poem of the title is 'The Genius Of The Crowd.' He's voicing his disgust at the average man, at conformity, mediocrity, and therefore, authority - which can be seen as the glue that holds the rest in place, or that at least gives the illusion of keeping things in place. It has nothing to do with 'recognizing the need for balance'.
    Are you at all familiar with Bukowski? If you were then you wouldn't make such a statement. He celebrated the unbalanced in all walks of life. He encouraged and cheered upheaval, revolt, life on the edges of society. Authority and complacency, subservience and cowardly obeisance disgusted him.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Saturnal wrote:
    Bukowski is saying "watch out for people who hate the poor and those who are proud to be poor."

    No he isn't. This is what he said:

    'Beware Those Who Either Detest Poverty Or Are Proud Of It'

    Again, you're twisting things. Detesting poverty has nothing to do with hating the poor.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Byrnzie wrote:
    No. They have two different meanings.

    Dislike:
    1. to regard with displeasure, antipathy, or aversion: I dislike working. I dislike oysters.


    Detest:
    1. to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely.

    To detest something means that you feel passionately about it. A hatred. I don't feel that way about authority. I just don't like it. Mostly I tend to ignore it, or laugh at it.



    You're digging yourself into a hole. The poem of the title is 'The Genius Of The Crowd.' He's voicing his disgust at the average man, at conformity, mediocrity, and therefore, authority - which can be seen as the glue that holds the rest in place, or that at least gives the illusion of keeping things in place. It has nothing to do with 'recognizing the need for balance'.
    Are you at all familiar with Bukowski? If you were then you wouldn't make such a statement. He celebrated the unbalanced in all walks of life. He encouraged and cheered upheaval, revolt, life on the edges of society. Authority and complacency, subservience and cowardly obeisance disgusted him.
    omg, it's so retarded for this to come down to semantics, but so be it..."detest" is a freakin' synonym for "dislike"...it's close enough, which is why I made the statement I did. Everyone reading this thread can decide who's digging themselves into a hole here...doesn't really matter.

    I'm familiar with Buk and that piece (it's one of my favs). And you're absolutely right that the poem is about the average person and conformity. That doesn't mean that every single line has to relate back to that. I think it's totally sensible to interpret the line I picked out in the way that I did. People who don't like the poor are a problem, just as those who are proud to BE poor are a problem. So I'm saying people who don't like authority are a problem, just as those who are proud to have authority are a problem. It's better to take a more balanced approach to thinking about these issues...it shows wisdom and maturity.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Saturnal wrote:
    "detest" is a freakin' synonym for "dislike"...it's close enough,

    No it isn't. They mean different things. You were putting words in my mouth and trying to exaggerate what I'd actually said.
    Saturnal wrote:
    People who don't like the poor are a problem, just as those who are proud to BE poor are a problem. So I'm saying people who don't like authority are a problem, just as those who are proud to have authority are a problem. It's better to take a more balanced approach to thinking about these issues...it shows wisdom and maturity.


    Again, the poem said nothing about anyone not liking the poor. You said that, and only you. Bukowski didn't say it. He was talking about something else.
    And saying that someone can be proud for there to be authority makes no sense. It's like saying that there are people that are proud that there are squirrels, or that there are people who are proud of the rain.

    In the meantime, can you explain why people who don't like authority are a problem? And whilst you're at it, can you also explain how Jesus and Gandhi were a problem? Ya see, they didn't like (I didn't say detest) authority either.


    Edit: Anyway, I'm off to bed. Knock yerself out.

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