Obama Refuses to Answer Birth Certificate Lawsuit

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  • This board is crazy. We have the most partisan political environment in history, with Fox News on the right, and MSNBC on the left. The DailyKos and MoveOn.org pushing their agenda, along with the right wing sites. Air America radio (which no one listens to), and the right-wing radio idealogues. Lobbyists rule Washington. Congress's approval rating is at a historical low due to the partisan bickering that halts any real legislation. A woman lied about being beaten by an Obama supporter. Palin is painted as the devil immediately by people who had never heard of her a day before. The list goes on and on and on.

    Now, you expect me to believe that FactCheck.org is something I can believe in? There can't be any agenda behind that organization? Even when Obama has ties to it? Maybe they are taking something at face value because they got the "answer" they liked?

    Anyway, your comment seems a little ridiculous in the political climate we live in. I'm not partisan for saying what I said, I'm realistic. Wake up. I guess we must trust whatever organization is favorable to Obama.

    I agree with you on everything except the Palin thing. Dude....uhm....WTF are you thinking!?!?

    hehee
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    A woman lied about being beaten by an Obama supporter. Palin is painted as the devil immediately by people who had never heard of her a day before. The list goes on and on and on.

    I'm not partisan for saying what I said, I'm realistic. Wake up. I guess we must trust whatever organization is favorable to Obama.

    You do know that she has come out and admitted she lied right?
  • it's a non-issue

    actually, it IS an issue.
    And to be specific,
    it is "THE issue before the court".
    It's cracks like this that give you no credibility.
    ;)
    you can't say someone isn't a citizen because you don't believe in a photograph

    I can, and i DO say, sir.
    Have you never seen a fake photograph on the internet before?
    Seriously?
    :cool:
    the burden of proof is not on Obama

    Okay, how about this:
    Defined in the legal sense, the "burden of proof" IS placed on the plaintiff. However, given that the near entirety of the case now rests on the ability of Obama's legal team to produce requested proof of natural born citizenship, the burden in an actual sense has been shifted to Obama.

    Further, according to federal civil case law (as above cited), it appears that Mr. Obama has actually legally admitted his ineligibility for presidential candidacy.
    and saying his birth certificate isn't real doesn't make it true.

    And saying it is real, doesn't make it real, right?

    So what have we proved, other than the FACT that Obama's legal counsel is STILL in failure to produce VERY SIMPLE evidence requested of them. 24 Hours it what it should take him to produce his "Birth Certificate", not 2 months?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • pjfan020pjfan020 Posts: 426
    So what have we proved, other than the FACT that Obama's legal counsel is STILL in failure to produce VERY SIMPLE evidence requested of them. 24 Hours it what it should take him to produce his "Birth Certificate", not 2 months?

    then why hasn't the republican party done ANYTHING about this? If it were true they would be on this like white on rice.
    "Tonight we're just gonna play you some good old American Rock and Roll." tom petty-7-15-05
  • pjfan020 wrote:
    then why hasn't the republican party done ANYTHING about this? If it were true they would be on this like white on rice.

    And why hasn't the judge dismissed it then, if it is so obviously a false claim.
    Seriously. People here are screaming at me like I am fucking mad for even giving this Berg guy a chance in court at something Obama's team is being VERY stupid about, and yet the judge in the case is not saying, "This is absurd. Case dismissed."

    Anyhow.
    The ENTIRE mainstream media is DEAD silent on this,
    which is one reason that makes me suspicious that it IS legitimate.

    Hey, yesterday Alex Jones released world exlclusive video footage of a long-accused JFK assassination participant (and a tried and jailed member of the Watergate "plumbers" squad) admitting that LBJ (a Democrat) was part of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

    Why aren't the Republicans all over that, as well?

    Answer:
    Somethings transcend parties.
    And somethings are just too far out of the purview of "politics" for the "media" to "report" on.
    It is very clear that "people in very high places" (to copy a statement by Jack Ruby) either want Obama as president or at least want to use his candidacy for some purpose. If that is true, then you wouldn't expect the media -- largely owned by the very same "people in very high places" -- to be damaging their cause.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Dude....Savage is blowing my mind. About a third of the way in on his Oct 24th show...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • pjfan020pjfan020 Posts: 426
    And why hasn't the judge dismissed it then, if it is so obviously a false claim.
    Seriously. People here are screaming at me like I am fucking mad for even giving this Berg guy a chance in court at something Obama's team is being VERY stupid about, and yet the judge in the case is not saying, "This is absurd. Case dismissed."

    Anyhow.
    The ENTIRE mainstream media is DEAD silent on this,
    which is one reason that makes me suspicious that it IS legitimate.

    Hey, yesterday Alex Jones released world exlclusive video footage of a long-accused JFK assassination participant (and a tried and jailed member of the Watergate "plumbers" squad) admitting that LBJ (a Democrat) was part of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

    Why aren't the Republicans all over that, as well?

    Answer:
    Somethings transcend parties.
    And somethings are just too far out of the purview of "politics" for the "media" to "report" on.
    It is very clear that "people in very high places" (to copy a statement by Jack Ruby) either want Obama as president or at least want to use his candidacy for some purpose. If that is true, then you wouldn't expect the media -- largely owned by the very same "people in very high places" -- to be damaging their cause.

    I'm not screaming..i'm just conversing. I respect your point of view and understand where you're coming from but i still have a problem with this issue not surfacing
    "Tonight we're just gonna play you some good old American Rock and Roll." tom petty-7-15-05
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    I'm trying to figure why I need to bother figuring out if Obama really was born in America or if he lost his citizenship when his parents moved to Indonesia and lived there for a few years during his youth.

    Does anyone think he hasn't lived in this country long enough to understand what it is to be an American? What's the point of exploring technicalities such as these? We need to live free of such things.
  • pjfan020 wrote:
    I'm not screaming..i'm just conversing. I respect your point of view and understand where you're coming from but i still have a problem with this issue not surfacing

    Fair enough.

    And from my point of view the ONLY weight i put on what the media reports is when they go in to blackout mode.

    If the media is 100% in refusal to cover something, there MUST be some legitimacy to it.

    Ron Paul was in near blackout in the media during the height of his candidacy.

    The Bilderberg meeting this year in Virginia got absolutely ZERO coverage on mainstream media, and it is probably THE single most important "political" event of the year.

    JFK get the blacklist, as noted by the deafening silence respecting E. Howard Hunt's video testimony as released by Alex Jones earlier this week.

    i could probably come up with a half dozen more in recent memory, but i think you get the point.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Kenny Olav wrote:
    What's the point of exploring technicalities such as these? We need to live free of such things.

    Because our founding fathers were smart enough to recognize that allowing foreign born persons to become president could lead to very unpleasant situations.

    From a revolutionary perspective, this meant (at the worst) known members of the British government and other such clear "enemy sympathizers". At the very least, leaving the door to the presidency open to foreign born citizens allows those loyal to other nations to claim US citizenship and seek the presidency in order to alter US policy to benefit the interests of other nations.

    If you can't guarantee that the leader of your country is in fact a loyal patriot of said country, then you can just get rid of the notion of sovereignty all together. Now, i know that the global government (er, governance, har har) enthusiasts just LOVE this notion (like Obama's favorite little Zbigniew), but i don't.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    What's the point of exploring technicalities such as these? We need to live free of such things.

    well, that little thing called the constitution mentions something about qualifications for serving as president. If Obama (and i don't think this is true) wasn't born in the US or a territory, he's not qualified to be president...PERIOD.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    I'm trying to figure why I need to bother figuring out if Obama really was born in America or if he lost his citizenship when his parents moved to Indonesia and lived there for a few years during his youth.

    Does anyone think he hasn't lived in this country long enough to understand what it is to be an American? What's the point of exploring technicalities such as these? We need to live free of such things.

    Sure, but as it stands. That is not how it is. If Obama was not born on US soil (be it in America or on an American base?) then he is not allowed to become president at this point in time.

    Maybe it will change one day, maybe it should? I know schwarzenegger would like that.
  • chopitdown wrote:
    PERIOD.

    We could have a constitutional convention.
    ;)

    our founding fathers really were genius on many levels.
    recognizing the notion that congress may refuse to allow amendment to the constitution, and providing provision for ensuring that the states could call their own convention to alter the law of the land, imho, is absolute brilliance of forethought.

    i think it might be time for the STATES of America to call their own convention to propose amendments,
    assuming the 2\3rds of the state legislatures are honest enough to oblidge the people of this once-great land.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    chopitdown wrote:
    well, that little thing called the constitution mentions something about qualifications for serving as president. If Obama (and i don't think this is true) wasn't born in the US or a territory, he's not qualified to be president...PERIOD.
    and that's about as simple as it gets.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    pjfan020 wrote:
    I'm still confused here...if this were true do people honestly believe that the republican party wouldn't be all over this..I mean if you can throw the guys priest on tv for a month i'm pretty sure they can get this all over fox if they wanted to. I'm a liberal and I really have entertained the idea of this being true. The biggest factor for me though is that the Rep. party hasn't done anything to get this story out there.
    This is my thought on it. My reaction was "oh oh" but then I thought...should McCain not be all over this? If there is any truth to this, McCain wins by a long shot. I suspect it beats the hell out of losing to Obama and then Obama being declared ineligible.

    By the way, what happens if Obama wins and then turns out to have been born in Kenya? I suppose congress votes--for McCain (as there is no other "viable" candidate).
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    This is my thought on it. My reaction was "oh oh" but then I thought...should McCain not be all over this? If there is any truth to this, McCain wins by a long shot. I suspect it beats the hell out of losing to Obama and then Obama being declared ineligible.

    By the way, what happens if Obama wins and then turns out to have been born in Kenya? I suppose congress votes--for McCain (as there is no other "viable" candidate).
    think Biden would be president.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    Commy wrote:
    think Biden would be president.

    That occurred to me, but if this happens in, say, December, then Biden is never VP and cannot really assume presidential power. Or can he? I better brush up on my constitution.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    yeah I'm not too sure either.

    But the point should be, as Kenny mentioned, not about a technicality. This should be about democracy. If we elect this guy into office, then we fucking elected this guy into office you know? a technicality shouldn't overrule a popular vote.
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    I feel, if you lived here most of your life and you plan on living here most of the rest of your life, what difference does it make?
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    Anyway...

    Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

    No person except a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

    ---
    (1) 8 USC 1401(g) stipulates that

    "The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person

    ( A ) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or

    ( B ) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date;

    So I guess what I need is the definition of NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Does the above fit or is it plain and simple...one born on US soil?

    And how does this impact McCain, who was born in Panama.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    And how does this impact McCain, who was born in Panama.

    From Wiki:
    John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States,[7] federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."[8] The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born — albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.[9]
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Commy wrote:
    yeah I'm not too sure either.

    But the point should be, as Kenny mentioned, not about a technicality. This should be about democracy. If we elect this guy into office, then we fucking elected this guy into office you know? a technicality shouldn't overrule a popular vote.

    Rule of law should always override rule of will.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    if this were happening to me, there is no way i would even dignify the claims with a response.
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  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    pjfan020 wrote:
    I'm still confused here...if this were true do people honestly believe that the republican party wouldn't be all over this..I mean if you can throw the guys priest on tv for a month i'm pretty sure they can get this all over fox if they wanted to.The biggest factor for me though is that the Rep. party hasn't done anything to get this story out there.

    Because even most Republicans know there's NO VALIDITY to the claim that Obama is not a natural born citizen. They know it's nothing more than a conspiracy theory. When you look at the prominent people making such claims you can see a pattern. Conspiracy Theory is one of those patterns. Another is anti-liberalism. I'll try not to bore everyone to death, but there's A LOT of info that disproves this theory. Factcheck.org is just the tip of the iceberg.

    People making claims about Obama birth certificate:

    Rush Limbaugh - Recently started echoing these claims again. Everyone pretty much knows what he's about, his agenda, and his feelings towards Obama. No shock there.

    Jerome Corsi - Conservative Author of the book "The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality", a book widely discredited and known for having various factual errors and smears, some of which have been described as racially charged. There's no question about Corsi's slant AGAINST Obama it's not hard to find. Corsi also wrote a book about a "plot" to replace our Dollar with an international currency, endorsed the 9/11 Truth movement, (conspiracy theorists) and has alleged U.S. support of Iran to develop nuclear weapons. He's way out there to say the least. Far far far right. Obviously Biased against Obama.

    Michael Savage - Conservative commentator and radio host like Limbaugh and about as far out there. He has described liberalism as degrading to America and a "mental disorder" (like Ann Coulter). Savage once said to a prank caller of his show "You should only get AIDS and die, you pig; how's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig? You got nothing better to do than to put me down, you piece of garbage?" Savage was quoted as saying some Muslims "need deportation" though he never gave any reason as to why besides the fact they are Muslim.

    Savage also showed his ass when discussing autism when he was quoted as saying "You know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, "Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot." Bernard Goldberg of FoxNews wrote of Savage: "Savage's brand of over-the-top bile...puts him right in there with the angriest haters on the Left."

    It's Not hard to see Savage is way out there and his hatred for liberals proves his slant against Obama.

    Philip J. Berg - Accused of various ethics violations, Berg is an attorney bringing a frivolous lawsuit against Obama demanding Obama release his birth certificate and be removed as presidential candidate. Berg IS a Democrat, but a well known Clinton supporter. He petitioned Superdelegates to "Nominate the Candidate that can Win in November 2008 - Hillary Clinton." (his words) Berg is also known for working with the 9/11 Truth Campaign (conspiracy theorists) He also brought another frivolous lawsuit alleging the twin towers collapsed as a result of a controlled demolition by Bush. A lawsuit he did not win. Berg demanded Obama drop out of the race because his alleged "ties" to Reverend Jeremiah Wright. Berg clearly has an anti-Obama agenda.

    fact checking websites confirming Obama's authentic U.S. birth certificate:

    http://www.factcheck.org I read someone mention ties to Obama by this site. That's funny because factcheck is a project of the Annenberg Foundation, whose founder Leonore Annenberg endorsed John McCain for president.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

    PolitiFact writes "There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact’s conclusion that the candidate’s name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn’t authentic.
    And that’s true no matter how many people cling to some hint of doubt and use the Internet to fuel their innate sense of distrust."

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

    Snopes essentially says the same thing as factcheck and politifact

    http://www.washingtonpost.com another website with a fact checker wrote “The truth: Sen. Barack Obama, born in Hawaii, is a Christian family man with a track record of public service.”

    Also, there have been conservatives who have come out and said Obama was indeed born in the United States like conservative blogger Ed Morrissey who called the Berg lawsuit a “conspiracy theory” and said the issue ”has arisen like a zombie yet again to suck the credibility out of the conservative blogosphere.”

    I don't think one can argue that all these sites have ties to Obama, that would just be denial. This is a NON-ISSUE that's been widely discredited.
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  • Is it true that Obama didn't take his wife and kids with him to visit his sick grandmother in Hawaii?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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  • brandon10brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    The conspiracy freaks here are bigger losers than the neo-cons. Get a grip.

    I know life is hard when you are crazy, but please keep it in your mom's basement.
  • brandon10 wrote:
    The conspiracy freaks here are bigger losers than the neo-cons. Get a grip.

    I know life is hard when you are crazy, but please keep it in your mom's basement.


    haha...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    brandon10 wrote:
    The conspiracy freaks here are bigger losers than the neo-cons. Get a grip.

    I know life is hard when you are crazy, but please keep it in your mom's basement.
    haha i just laughed out loud :)
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,105
    Is it true that Obama didn't take his wife and kids with him to visit his sick grandmother in Hawaii?

    There is campaigning to do.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,105
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    You do know that she has come out and admitted she lied right?

    To quote my post, I said "A woman LIED about being beaten by an Obama supporter". Just showing the extremes of the partisanship we have now.
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